Well folks, here's a new Oberman rant. I liked it.

Watch it and comment.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15147009/

I for one am sick of most of the tiresome armchair critics, but I do have a special soft spot for Olbermann-- I would love to see him interview bush one on one

A+ to Olbermann for his rants of reason.

This rant was absolutely hilarious!
To bad it is so true.

Keith Oberman - The rant was fucking asinine. Get some respect for the President of the United States. You dont have to like and/or agree with the guy, but get some fucking respect. It is so hilarious how everyone has an opinion when it doesn’t count. Its kind of like the guy criticizing an athlete for a fumbled play. You get on the field and play, or are you only good enough to warm the bench? He may not be the best pres we have had, but he is our pres. When the next pres is a demo I’ll love that mother fucker too, until he is out of office. Its call patriotism. Get some.

" - The rant was fucking asinine."

please state some factual errors in the rant...


"Get some respect for the President of the United States"

Respect is earned, and he hasn't earned much by his empty rhetoric and idiocy when he does actually do something.

"It is so hilarious how everyone has an opinion when it doesn’t count."


umm isn't this a democracy? Everyone counts-- just some count more than others.


"You get on the field and play, or are you only good enough to warm the bench?"

the analogy is ummm assnine.


"He may not be the best pres we have had"

ya think???


"When the next pres is a demo I’ll love that mother fucker too, until he is out of office. Its call patriotism. Get some."

I think you mean nationalism.. Yes the nazis were quite nationalistic, along with the n. koreans, and iranians. Next time someone asks you how people can live in those societies and under that rule, tell em they're sheep just like you.

Where are Beachman and Arellius? Their thoughtful, logical and insightful comments are missed.

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quote:

AZ says
Its call patriotism. Get some

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quote:

Samuel Johnson said
"He that wishes to see his country robbed of its rights cannot be a patriot."

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

"It is unpleasing to represent our affairs to our own disadvantage; yet it is necessary to shew the evils which we desire to be removed."

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quote:

James Bryce
Our country is not the only thing to which we owe our allegiance. It is also owed to justice and to humanity. Patriotism consists not in waving the flag, but in striving that our country shall be righteous as well as strong.

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quote:

Albert Einstein
Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them!

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quote:

George Santayana
To me, it seems a dreadful indignity to have a soul controlled by geography.

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quote:

Mark Twain, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court
My kind of loyalty was loyalty to one's country, not to its institutions or its office-holders.

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quote:

Bertrand Russell
Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.

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quote:

Adlai Stevenson
Do not... regard the critics as questionable patriots. What were Washington and Jefferson and Adams but profound critics of the colonial status quo?

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DM, yeah, you are so right, living here in the US under the Bush administration is exactly like nazi germany (somebody better get the word out to the jews), north korea, and Iran. Although, you may be over reacting just a bit. oooh and the name calling. Geez I have never been called a sheep. That hurt. Just because I lean a little to the right doesnt mean I dont have feelings too. Say you are sorry and I will let it go.

My point was this guy like many others have all the wisdom in the world after the fact (kind of like you).

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quote:

Mark Twain
Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and excusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may.

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quote:

Socrates
I am not an Athenian or a Greek, I am a citizen of the world.

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quote:

Voltaire, Philosophical Dictionary
It is lamentable, that to be a good patriot one must become the enemy of the rest of mankind.

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smitopher, wow, I am impressed. you grouped me with all of those famous guys. You must have really taken to heart what I said. Thanks, AZ

Your welcome.

(Message edited by smitopher on October 09, 2006)

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quote:

Mark Twain
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it."

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect."

"To succeed in life, you need two things: ignorance and confidence."

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"Obviously, a man's judgement cannot be better than the information on which he has based it. Give him the truth and he may still go wrong when he has the chance to be right, but give him no news or present him only with distorted and incomplete data, with ignorant, sloppy or biased reporting, with propaganda and deliberate falsehoods, and you destroy his whole reasoning processes, and make him something less than a man."
Arthur Hays Sulzberger
1948 Address to New York State Publishers Association

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are...Texas oil millionaires and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower
Republican, November 8, 1954

"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done.”
Julius Caesar

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"DM, yeah, you are so right, living here in the US under the Bush administration is exactly like nazi germany (somebody better get the word out to the jews), north korea, and Iran. Although, you may be over reacting just a bit. oooh and the name calling."


AZ, not sure how you make the leap that I said living in the US was like Nazi Germany-- what I made a reference to was your assertion that citizens show blind allegiance due to a title under the banner of patriotism.


"My point was this guy like many others have all the wisdom in the world after the fact (kind of like you)"


I won't argue a point that is obvious, but it would certainly help if BUSH would have a smidgeon of wisdom AFTER the fact. Can you cite some examples of where Bush has recanted and publically stated he made an error and changed course?


"smitopher, wow, I am impressed. you grouped me with all of those famous guys. You must have really taken to heart what I said"

I think what's he's saying is that you wouldn't know Patrotism if it hit you in the ass.

Smitopher, I've been foolishly living my life off of the internet and not checking into the latest echo chamber thread as often. I find that when I turn off the tv and the computer and stay away from the news, life is a lot more pleasant, peaceful, and optimistic. You should try it. Life is too short to be bound up with as much hate and anger that you and some of the others carry around with you.

Arellius, indeed-- ignorance certainly is bliss.

Arellius, your flamebait is just too transparent. What was it you were saying about Life?

Keith "Oralman"....this guy is your hero....that explains alot....a lier who accuses others of lying. Do you know this guys history. Why he was fired from ESPN? His obessesion with Bill O'Reilly....may be it has something to do with how many more viewers watch O'Reilly than him...Hell....even Glen Beck has higher rating than "Oralman" and Beck has only been on the air for 3 months.

Since when does "truth" coincide with ratings?


Please do enlighten the crowd and detail the lies including in the aforementioned rant with your information sources. Or is your rant limited to BS innuendo?

DM: -- ignorance certainly is bliss.

Dammittohell...I have done such a great job of not fanning the flames here and now I get drawn into this anyway.
Harrumph!

"My point was this guy like many others have all the wisdom in the world after the fact (kind of like you)"

AZguy, you really think this is just a bunch of monday morning quarterbacking? lmao. Wasn't most of the world and alot of 'fiberals' in america saying not to go to Iraq?

Even after YOUR president won by a margin of like 51 to 49 percent in 2004, he claimed he had a mandate. Who really would call that a mandate? Almost makes me want to google what a mandate means.

Then, he says he earned alot of political capital and he was going to spend it. That treasure trove must be running one hell of a deficit about right now. Just like everything else in America. This Bush economy is like a real estate sign with 'price reduced'. For the love of God, this was the guy that traded Sammy Sosa to the Cubs. Wake up man!

Bullitt: I believe a mandate for Bush means barely winning an election and only doing that by engaging in a massive and effective smear campaign of your opponent directed by Rove.

Actually, yes I do think we are seeing a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking. And yes, I do recall a number of demos saying we should go into Iraq. I have also said a number of times that the Bush admin has not handled the war right. He didnt make adjustments when adjustment were obvious. I wish we were not in Iraq. Hindsight is 20/20. I am not really sure why I am defending Bush here, maybe I am not as clear as I should be in my writing. My point was that right or wrong Bush is our pres and we should show some respect. Like I said before, I didnt vote for Clinton and I didnt really care for him, but while he was our pres, I didnt say shit about him, in fact it really pissed me off when the reps kept going after him. It was a huge distraction. and yes DM I know what patriotism is. You have no idea, so it might be better to not talk about something you know nothing about. If you can do that. If you dont agree with my definition of patriotism, fine. I could care less. As far as Oberman is concerned I put my 2 cent worth in just like everyone else. Its funny how everyone is all for free speech until someone has a different point of view. Everyone just has to be right I guess.

Like I said on the other political thread, this shit is getting old and negative. I am back to talking about the positive things in life, like pussy. You boys have fun. Peace.

lmao, everytime these guys bring up clinton they claim they weren't a part of that impeachment stuff. But yet, they held the upmost respect of president and his position. Give me a fucking break. Azguy and the rest of us are going to be saying 'we had no idea' when it turns out we were torturing and killing all kinds of people. But I guess Chavez is the ass. Shove that libertarian ideal up your ass or in your mouth.

"Dm, You have no idea, so it might be better to not talk about something you know nothing about. If you can do that"


How better to respond to rubbish than quote yourself:

"When the next pres is a demo I’ll love that mother fucker too, until he is out of office. Its call patriotism. Get some"

Sure sounded like your the one who questioned folks patriotism and the logical question arose if you know what it is based on your linkages.


"As far as Oberman is concerned I put my 2 cent worth in just like everyone else. Its funny how everyone is all for free speech until someone has a different point of view."


Perhaps, if you actually stated your opinion on the subject (like you THINK you do) rather than respond with shit like:

"Get some respect for the President of the United States. You dont have to like and/or agree with the guy, but get some fucking respect. It is so hilarious how everyone has an opinion when it doesn’t count. Its kind of like the guy criticizing an athlete for a fumbled play. You get on the field and play, or are you only good enough to warm the bench? He may not be the best pres we have had, but he is our pres. When the next pres is a demo I’ll love that mother fucker too, until he is out of office. Its call patriotism. Get some."


99% of your post was critisizing other folks opinions rather than post something on the subject at hand (olbermann). DM, may not know much, but I call a pig a pig. Now go get your R,W,&B bumpersticker and kowtow three times for Bush-- you'll feel better I'm sure.

AZ, after looking at your pics, it is a good thing your limiting yourself to talking about pussy--- you got some damn hot ladies in your portfolio. Jessica is a hell of a specimen.

I gotta agree with DM. Nice pics.

Oh no...
It more Olbermann
The death of habeas corpus

This is not about Republican and Democrats. This is about saving OUR country from it's worst enemy... ever. The Administration of George W. Bush. The "Terrorists" have achieved what the "Communists" never could. The destruction of the American Way of Life.

(Message edited by smitopher on October 11, 2006)

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War.....also habeas corpus was suspended during World War One and World War Two.
It wasn't suspended during the Korean War and Vietnam War....oh yeah those were Police Actions ....not Wars....I forgot.
So I guess we have to decide if this is a War against Terrorism or a Police Action against Terrorism.

Let see....the Civil War and both World Wars ended in results with the US in victory because we threw out the nonsense and the Bullshit and treated those Wars as life and death situations and fought them as the enemey fought us!
The Korean Police Action and the Vietnam Police Action.... well we know how those turned out..... because we played by rules that the enemy broke and took advantage of the weakness that that by playing by those rules created for us.
Almost Every UN peacekeeping force fails where ever they go because of rules that broken and mean nothing to the enemy and most countries are now reluctant to send any forces anywhere!
What needs to happen before the suspension of habeas corpus is accepted as a legitmate tool in the War against Terrorism a dirty bomb on US soil or a chemical attack that kills thousands.


This is all politics and if it was a Democratic President using the same tactics the Liberals would be defending it....the difference is most Republicans in this case would put the country ahead of their party.
That is probaly the reason Clinton wasn't convicted in the Senate because the Republicans knew even though Clinton tossed away the Constitution and LIED under oath for selfish motives......the Republicans knew if AL Gore would have become President what a mess we qwould have to deal with!

>>That is probaly the reason Clinton wasn't convicted in the Senate because the Republicans knew even though Clinton tossed away the Constitution and LIED under oath for selfish motives......the Republicans knew if AL Gore would have become President what a mess we qwould have to deal with!<<

The above quotation shows a profound inability to perform the most simple of arithmetic calculations, as in how many votes were required to convict, and how many Republicans were in the Senate at that time.

Let me clarify the Republican's and Democrats did not convict prefering to keep Clinton in office than Gore. With Nixon....Republicans where the ones that force Nixon to resign telling him that he had crossed the line......it would have taken 67 votes to convict him and the republicans could have blocked that but at that time there were still enough politicians with enough honor and dignity to say he was caught and he needed to pay the consequence for it.

There was no doubt factualy that Clinton lied under oath and tampered with witinesses and was caught trying to cover it up. He committed perjury and the Senate knowing the law and the Constitution ignored the Constitution and didn't convict him. Both Republicans and Democrats trashed the law and that has weakened even futher..... that there is a different justice system in this country for the powerful and rich....than there is for the rest of us.

Like I said, I am not posting here, but I just wanted to say thanks for the compliments on the girls. They were so much fun. I cant wait for my month stay in Colombia and I will have a new batch of photos.

One last clarification, my first post on this thread was directed to Oberman, not anyone on this board, I should have put a comma instead of a dash. I guess I didnt realize Oberman was on the board. Ok, Don Marco the cat is out of the bag.


ok, now I am really, really done.

Beachman,

You need to go back and re-take high school civics. Spend some time looking at the grounds for impeachment (i.e., what are the standards for an impeachable offense). Then look at the Nixon and Clinton cases. Then look at the debate in those two cases (not what was said in the media but what was said in committee and on the floor). Then return and try to speak knowledgeably about the issue. Thus far you've done nothing more than impress everyone with your ignorance of the details of constitutional law.

To suggest that the Clinton impeachment vote reflected nothing more than a preference for Clinton over Gore is laughable, about the silliest damn thing I've ever seen posted here (sillier even than Masterbates' whale pictures).

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes that you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."

I checked this on Snopes, and Eisenhower really wrote this. Of course, Eisenhower was a Democrat, so what do you expect?

You guys who want to do away with habeus corpus are citing some of the worst mistakes ever made by Presidents, in defense of Bush. Its kind of like defending Iraq by saying: "we were HAVE had equally disasterous wars, like in Vietnam, so why shouldn't we do it again?"

I cannot believe that you guys are still defending Bush. I thought that just about everyone was off the Bush bus now, conceding that he stinks as President.

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quote:

Explorer8939 wrote:
Of course, Eisenhower was a Democrat, so what do you expect?

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"Of course, Eisenhower was a Democrat."

Toooooooooo funny!

Oddly, the opinion expressed by Ike was a pretty typical Republican opinion at the time. Shows you exactly how far the GOP has drifted from their principles.

Here is one of the "respected" Democratic leaders who talks about the need to run the corupt Republicans out of office!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/11/politics/main2083771.shtml

Branquinho-

I think it is you who needs to go back to your highschool civics class! The House did find grounds to impeach Clinton and impeached him....that is what impeachment is! The Senate just didn't have the balls to convict him. I think it is you who needs to work on their igorance of constitutional law and its details and then return and speak knowledgeably about the issue!

Beachman, when you say the Senate didn't have the balls to convict him, were you anticipating at any time for some Democrats to vote for impeachment? It was apparant about 3.4 seconds after the impeachment hearings began that even if the House voted to impeach (simple majority), that under no circumstances ever would the Senate have enough votes (2/3 majority). Thus, it was Republican Kabuki from start to finish. Did the Republicans have 67 seats in the Senate at the time? Because that would have been the only way Clinton would have been convicted.

Beachman, here's what's really important - do you think that what Clinton did was worse than what Bush has done? Who most deserves to be kicked from the White House?

Catocony-

It has nothing to do about being a Democrat or Republican.....it is upholding the law and the Constitution. To lie under oath and commit perjury and not suffer the consequences is the againist the basic foundation of our Justice System. People are put in jail for much, much lesser offenses. You think if a married principal at a highschool was caught lying under oath the he didn't have sex with a student teacher would lose his job. You think the local school board would allow him to keep his job.

The Senate didn't have the balls.....The Arkansas Supreme Court did.....they revoked Clinton's law license and it was stacked with Clinton appointees from his days as governor. Do you think Kennedy should have been impeached for the Bay of Pigs. The House and the Senate both voted to allow Bush to invaded Iraq.....should every member who voted to authorize it be impeached.

Cat, if you noticed, he didn't answer the question you posed did he? Just as the several folks who blasted olbermann calling him a liar have never backed up their rhetoric and stated which lies were in the rant and their information sources... I call it bush-itis, whole lotta saber rattling with no substance.

The point, dear Beachman, is that the Senate found that the House had done a terrible job in interpreting the articles of impeachment. They voted for impeachment in an instance where what Clinton was accused of was not an impeachable offense. I.e., the House fucked up. Lying under oath is not necessarily an impeachable offense. The issue was in part that the base offense Clinton lied about (getting a blow job) did not raise constitutional issues (I've just scanned the Constitution; nary a word about blow jobs). Nixon's lies and cover-up was around something a bit more serious (distortion of the electoral process, etc.).

If you'd like to talk about potentially impeachable offenses, let's talk about Bush's lies to the American public. Now those were some consequential lies!

Branquinho-

Your point was that I was ignorant of constitutional law and there were no grounds for the impeachment of Clinton. The Constitution gave the power for the MAJORITY of the House the elected officials to impeach Clinton. So go back to your highschool civics class and learn that the their were grounds to impeach Clinton and that is what the House did! The Senate just like many liberal judges decided that they didn't have to apply the law and the Constitution equally to the Clinton than he was immune to perjury where the average citizen would have been convicted of the same offense under the same circumstances......isn't suppose to be " noone is above the law>

Oh I forgot.....Senator Harry Reid .....he gets to interept Senate Rules.....just because they weren't enforcing disclosures he thought he didn't have to disclose making 101 million in a very shady Real Estate Deal.

If it was a Republican in the same situation as he is right now it would be non stop on the Liberal Media right now less than 3 months before the election. Will he resign!!!!! Do you think she should be able to stay in office????????

Bush's lies to the American public.....you must be talking about those Weapons of Mass Destruction again.

Let see...... you have seen the video where while Clinton was in office not only did he and other high ranking Democratic leaders LIED not only did Iraq have WMD's but that Iraq had actually al ready used them and was trying to aquire more.
And is your shallow memory capable of remembering Isreal bombing Iraq's Nuclear capabilities back in 1981.

Based on your logic that Bush should be impeached because according to the Liberal that he purposely LIED about WMD's then Clinton should have been impeached for lying about WMD's and all the Democratic leaders who lied when it suited their political needs should not have been re- elected!

I can't remember, did Clinton ask Congress to approve going to war on the basis of WMDs? Or did he just suggest that Iraq had a WMD program? Could the difference be important?

And I think the good people of Nevada ought to run Reid's ass out of the Senate.

I wondered why D'artagnan jumped out of the gate after Beachmans first couple of posts with a nice burst of flame posts towards him. I wish I had done the same. I'm through with this fucking moron, it's not the fact that I disagree with what I think his points are, I simply cannot understand what he is saying. My opinions on Floridians and real estate agents, and especially real estate agents in Florida, have been reconfirmed. The guy cannot understand basic math nor apparently written laws. At this point it's equal to debating with a retarded 3rd grader - a waste of time.

I finally got around to watching the Olberman rant. He is clearly agitated, and frustrated.

I sense that Olberman's outbursts are a reflection of the shifting mood of the American people. Perhaps it is a flaw in the democratic process, but Americans want short term results. I believe this is one of the challenges in our education system. A good educational plan should take at least 10 years to implement so it can impact a whole generation of Americans. Back on point, Bush is trying to get the American people to wait for tangible results long after he is out of office. Whether Bush is right or wrong, the American people will not wait that long.

About two years ago, I gave a fairly large campaign contribution to a Republican Senator that I met. We talked for a while, had a beer, and we even wrote a bill together. It was kind of fun. I also said that I wanted to meet Lindsay Graham. Instead I received a pretty fancy package in the mail. It basically helped me to get to know Lindsay Graham. I read his platforms and I really liked what I was reading. But to close, he said (paraphrasing) "Send money now to help fight the threat of the Democrats." At that point, I threw it in the trash. I also give to Democratic candidates, and I do not view the Democratic party as a threat to the country.