Anyone remember this?? It was 1987! At a lecture the other day they Were playing an old news video of Lt. Col. Oliver North testifying at the
Iran-Contra hearings during the Reagan Administration. There was Ollie in front of God and country getting the third degree, but what he
said was stunning!

He was being drilled by a senator; "Did you not recently spend close To $60,000 for a home security system?"

Ollie replied, "Yes, I did, Sir."

The senator continued, trying to get a laugh out of the audience, "Isn't that just a little excessive?"

"No, sir," continued Ollie.

"No? And why not?" the senator asked.

"Because the lives of my family and I were threatened, sir."

"Threatened? By whom?" the senator questioned.

"By a terrorist, sir" Ollie answered.

"Terrorist? What terrorist could possibly scare you that much?"

"His name is Osama bin Laden, sir" Ollie replied.

At this point the senator tried to repeat the name, but couldn't pronounce it, which most people back then probably couldn't. A couple of people laughed at the attempt. Then the senator continued.

"Why are you so afraid of this man?" the senator asked.

"Because, sir, he is the most evil person alive that I know of" Ollie
answered.

"And what do you recommend we do about him?" asked the senator.

"Well, sir, if it was up to me, I would recommend that an assassin team be formed to eliminate him and his men from the face of the earth."

The senator disagreed with this approach, and that was all that was shown of the clip.

By the way, that senator was Al Gore

ALSO: Terrorist pilot Mohammad Atta blew up a bus in Israel in 1986. The Israelis captured, tried and imprisoned him. As part of the Oslo agreement
with the Palestinians in 1993, Israel had to agree to release so-called "political prisoners".

However, the Israelis would not release any with blood on their hands. The American President at the time, Bill Clinton, and his Secretary of State, Warren Christopher, "insisted" that all
prisoners be released. Thus Mohammad Atta was freed and eventually thanked the US by flying an airplane into Tower One of the World Trade Center.

Thiswas reported by many of the American TV networks at the time that the terrorists were first identified. It was censored in the US from all later reports.

This story has been proven over and over again to be an internet myth. It never happened. The bin Laden part anyway. Ollie did buy the security system.

Same with the Mohammad Atta part of the story.

There was a guy named Mohammad Atta blew up a bus in Israel but it was not the same guy as the Sep 11 hijacker.

Sam--that's quite a video if it exists. But my guess is that it's been doctored.

I'll never understand why people want to make Oliver North a hero, or why they listed to his godawful radio show. Friggin treasonous, lying criminal. When I grow up, I don't want to be Oliver North. I want to be Peter North.

Dogster,

You pinko communist bastard, I mean bitch.

How could you trash talk a true American.

Next you will probably tell me you didn't vote for Ronald Regan.

Donde esta Superman?

I didn't vote for Reagan! So what are you gonna do about it???

Errr ... then again, I was not old enough to vote ...

-Superman-

Uh Superman,

I don't think you understand.

Dogster makes a post and you trash talk Dogster, not me amigo.

I mean, after all, we have fucked the same fantasies.

I was not trash talking you, Ben. Just goofing. Besides, Dogster is not much of a challenge. It's like arm wrestling a girl.

-Superman-

YES YES

Nope, I didn't vote for RR. Couldn't stand him. I plan to celebrate when he kicks the bucket.

Goldwater? Had a brain. but even so, puke.
Nixon? absolute full stomach puke
Ford? nausea
Reagan? full projectile vomit
Bush Sr.? vomit
Bob Dole? puke with pineapple chunks
Bush Jr.? post inebriation puke

Forbes? I like his version of the flat tax. But his religious right blather is nauseating.

Pete Wilson? George Dukemejian? Smart dudes. Some good ideas. Pardon me while I puke.

Herbert Hoover, Alf Landon, Wendell Wilkie, Thomas Dewey, Earl Warren, Dwight Eisenhower -- hey, these dudes were allright. Did you vote for them?

Seriously,

The flat tax is/was a good idea. You could eliminate about 90% of the IRS if we ever passed that law. And and think about all the tax attorneys and cpa's that would have to get real jobs.

The "Duke", I would have voted for him. Oh sorry I was talking about John Wayne.

Mr Dog,

I do not see Carter and Clinton on your puke list. They probably should be added.

I think Carter is the most decent man to fill the presidency in many years, but what a shitty president.

And Bill Clinton was probably the best politician the country has fielded since Roosevelt. But what a stinking scum bag puke. All of the good guys predate Johnson IMHO.

And worse of all, I do not see any original candidates on the Horizon. Just more of the same old shit.

BatsterwhoisdisapointedinUSpolitcians.

Ronald Reagan: bad President, great front man. Would have had a great career in Hollywood.

Clinton: another great front man.

Bush Sr had some potential, but followed the lead of Herbert Hoover. Carter, bad, bad president. Bush Jr.: hasn't a clue, his foreign policy has the attributes of being clueless and dangerous at the same time (poor Colin Powell).

Did I miss one of the recent Presidents in there? I pity schoolkids in 100 years time who will have to memorize this list of losers.

"Clinton between the Bushes".

I think Clinton was an absolute genius.

Man would I like to spend a week in TJ following him around.

He would be all over Magali

Can you feel the pain?

Clinton was rad. The only thing I have a problem with was his fucking fat chicks (Lewinsky) and ugly chicks (Paula).

Anyone on a prostitution board who wants to lay into Clinton's moral character might want to take a look in the mirror!

-Superman-

Superman, are you serious? Or have you been sniffing kryptonite? Please explain the moral equivalency between participation on a prostitution (victimless crime) board and Clinton’s abuses of office and power. As I said before, Clinton is brilliant. He is probably the best politician to come down the pipe in 50 years. And he made a pretty good president. Not only is he a good politician, he is a great player. Albeit one with very bad taste in women. But that does not mean he is not a scumbag. I could care less how many fat ugly girls he boned in the Oral office. What bothers me is his abuse of power, obstruction of justice, bold faced lies to the public, last minute pardons of questionable characters, use of government agencies to go after enemies, bombing aspirin factories in Sudan to divert attention from the Lewinsky scandal( Bush seems to be taking a play out of his book), accepting illegal money from China and Indonesia for his campaign, looting the White House when he made his exit (of course he was forced to return most of the loot), I can go on and on. In MY OPINION, he is a low class scumbag with a huge ego. Why should we not question his morals? He was an elected official after all. I can question them all I want. I took your advice and looked in the mirror a couple of times. Your right, I do look pretty scummy LOL, but I am still not sure how I am supposed to compare my morals to his. I suggest that you buy me a couple of beers in the Zona and we can further discuss my moral shortcomings while observing Panocha. LOL. Hell, I will even buy the beers.

Batsterwhoneedsnoexcusetogotothezona

Man the more I read about Clinton the more i admire him.

What a stud.

A stud with poor taste in women, but stil a stud.

It's funny how people can always justify their own vices while condemning the vices of others ... I love it!

-Superman-

The problem that many people have with Clinton isn't the fact that he was getting nobbed by an intern, it was more a problem that he lied under oath.

Some people also have a with the fact that he was getting blown in the Oval Office while adressing congress. -personally that would be a power trip that I would love to take.

-snapper-

Many years ago I received a blow job in my office while talking to a client on the telephone.

We both thought it was funny. By both,I mean the sucker and the suckee. Uh, what I mean is the girl on her knees who was blowing me as I was setting at my desk.

Who said anything about justifying vices? Why is it some people blindly defend others of their own stripe, be it political, ethnic, or religious, regardless of the actions of the group or person in question. Why not recognize bad behavior for what it is? Usually, since there is no valid defense of these actions, the defenders recur to arguments of moral equivalency and "everybody does it". Once again Superman, I might be a scumbag too, but that does not justify the sleazy acts of people in power. Clinton is a great politician with some great big flaws. I am not sure why I can't voice that opinion.

But since we have two very divergent opinions on this issue, I suggest we go back to discussing panocha. Something we all agree is good. I will still buy the beers.

Clinton was a swine. Period. I have no problem with anyone getting a blowjob, and even sympathize with the guy, being that he is married to a lesbian. But, Clinton's justice department put hundreds of people in jail over 8 years for perjury. I have a HUGE problem with him doing the same thing (commit perjury) and not do the time.
Incidently, I have a feeling that Hilary would not like us on this board very much.

I think of Bill Clinton as phenomenal potential wasted.

In general, I agreed with his politics (middle to left; I'm personally also a bit more libertarian and DEFINITELY more fiscally conservative than the Democrats tend to be, but you don't get many choices in US elections) but disagreed with some of the warped specifics that came about due, largely, to his need to use charisma rather than sense. The internet decency act, or whatever it was called, almost got passed during his administration, for example -- how on EARTH that relates to middle-to-left politics, I can't fathom. The Reno justice department was, as well, a bit of a loose cannon, as has been mentioned. The way I see it, Clinton was so good a liar he actually fooled himself.

But he was a BRILLIANT people person, and quite the successful monger too. Clinton could have charmed Kissinger himself into fucking him. That Billy went after fat ugly chicks was, I think, an unfortunate offshoot of the recent more prurient scrutiny the tabloid-ized press has begun to impose on public officials. As Bill Maher puts it, "I'm IMPRESSED with the man for getting prison sex. On the phone making deals and fucking at the same time? He's BUSY. He's WORKING FOR YOU." And so forth. Kennedy probably didn't have that type of scrutiny to deal with; FDR certainly did not.

Carter I think was also quite a smart man, and a successful leader. Of his own staff, I mean. He was NOT a successful leader of the American people. Basically, Carter knew what a lot of the solutions ought to have been to a lot of the problems, but he failed to realize that the American people would need a different kind of coaxing than what he had used among nuculur physicists.

Reagan I was not impressed with, although I understand why people who do agree with his policies WOULD be impressed with him. "Great communicator" and all that -- made people feel comfortable, like grampa. Shiny hair. Personally, it made me puke, all that Hopalong shit, but I guess I would have puked equivalently at Clinton if I'd been a supply-side type. (Which I ain't, but that's a different issue.)

Bush Sr. did scare me, since he WAS someone who could do a good job with his personal agenda -- understanding and working the National Security Council, for example (anyone else shudder at the movie "Bob Roberts"?). I'm glad Bush Sr. blundered on the domestic "keep the electorate sated" front, and thus didn't get re-elected. But then, in the face of the Clinton charisma machine, could ANYONE have survived?

Bush Jr. REALLY scares me ... he's mentally inept, as best I can tell. He is floundering about the response to the 9/11 stuff, just sort of wandering about Afghanistan shooting stuff. I would much have preferred Gore for last September. I also totally agree with Gore on the subject of the eventual attack on Iraq -- DON'T go out on that limb. We don't want a world that fears and derides and rejects the USA more than it fears, derides, and rejects fundamentalist Islamic terrorists. Bush Jr. doesn't really get the concept, I don't think, and is clearly a figure-head over Cheney Ashcroft Rumsfeld and other REALLY stodgy fuddy-duddy types who live in the Cold War Vietnam Era in their own minds.

Bush Jr. strikes me as a different type of "front man" from Clinton and Reagan. Those two were "ideals men" who could spout the propaganda and makes us feel good (depending on your personal bent). Dub-ya, on the other hand, is just the dolt who would never prevent a successful coup, and might even get co-opted by it, or at least be set up as the patsy to take the fall. Kind of like Dan Quayle ...

I liked many of the things Clinton did politically while in office and at the same time disagreed with many of his liberal ideas. He was really an enigma to me.

One thing he did with much Republican support is pass a law that would cease or at least modified the double tax or penalty for people who wanted to continue to work while receiving Social Security. More important, it stopped states like California from taxing retirement plans of people who no longer were residence of CA.

Many retired Navy and Marine personel were being forced to file a tax return for CA even though they had moved to say Florida where there is no state income tax.

I had no problem with his personal life as it did not effect me or anyone else. I think the Repubs(I am one) were totally vindictive in going after him for lying about his personal life.

benwhowillmovetoNapleswhenheretires

Who got nailed for perjury during the Clinton Administration?

More to the point, who was jailed for perjury committed in a civil trial?

No one got "nailed" as I recall during the Clinton Administration, although Clinton was disbarred after he left office.

I have no idea about "who was jailed for perjury committed in a civil trial?", but will tell you that people are sometimes put in jail for perjury in civil trials if they are caught lying. By civil, I am not just referring to divorce cases, but to business and corporate lawsuits.

Some business lawsuits that start out strictly civil can be later changed to criminal because of perjury.

Also you can be charge with tax evasion for purjury if you lie or hide your income. It is normally just civil if you take deductions on your tax return which the IRS rules against and you fight the IRS in court and are foumd guilty/unjustified in taking the deduction in a tax court.

Not saying this well, but people go to jail for perjury in civil trials.

Ben: Clinton did not end the double taxation of california retirement income. A supreme court case did.

And, Nixon?

Ben wrote: "Many years ago I received a blow job in my office while talking to a client on the telephone."

It could be worse. Have you seen that commercial from C Schwab where everyone in the broiler room is on the phone telling customers to buy buy buy? The first guy is reading a Chinese take out menu while he tells the sucker, "I'm looking at your portfolio right now and it's a BUY!".

A few thoughts on our former presidents.
Carter: While not a great president, he has done more outside of office than any other of the current living ex's. He was/is to much of a humanitarian for the office. Remember his giving away of the Panama canal? On the other hand,,,have you ever seen any of the others even pick up a hammer? Let alone help build houses in TJ with it.

Reagan: Has to be the most overrated president. How many friggin things need to be named after him? The worst is the airport. Here's the guy that killed the air traffic controllers union.
I remember watching his press conferences and him giving a big long drawn out answer. Except, he never ended up answering the question. But his answer was so long,,you forgot the question.

Bush 1: When ever I saw him on TV, I got the feeling he was thinking "Hey I'm the president"
More trying to impress people by that. Biggest mistake, letting Sadam get away. Had he finished the job, probably would have gotten re-elected. Scary!

Clinton: As stated by someone else,,a people person. A bit like Reagan that way. Although, I can't picture Reagan getting a hummer in the Oval Office, nor do I want to. I wonder if the Secret Service's code name for him was "Teflon" cuz no matter what was tossed at him it didn't stick.Where Reagan was "grandpa" president, Clinton had to be the "cool/hip" one.

Bush 2: Sometimes I wonder if he's daddy's puppet. I think his wanting to go after Sadam is to finish daddy's mistake.

The person I wish would run, is Colin Powell. Probably way to smart to run. He's seen the dirt dug up on other candidates in the past and like everyone else around, he has a few skeletons in the ol' closet. I think he wants to protect his family from having to deal with it.

Nixon: it's hard to remember much from those days and so much of it looks really stupid looking back. The guy was something else but history has shown that he did nothing that hadn't been done before and hasn't been repeated since. And that includes the Stalinist tactics of some of Nixon's biggest haters.

Ford: no real memories

Carter: I had a business then. For a while every single week without exception I was getting price increases from my suppliers. Gasoline went through the roof. Real estate and other hard assets lost touch with their true value. Variable mortgages were over 10% and rising fast. We came very close to an economic explosion although historians like to conveniently forget that.

Regean: He may have been a show man but he literally saved this country from economic disaster. Plus, he finally ended the Cold War by forcing the Communists into a spending match that they couldn't compete with. Republicans probably over glorify the guy while ignoring the selfishness and greed that was all around the man. Democrats can't handle the fact that we never had a nuclear war or mass starvation or that their "brothers in arms" on the other side of the Berlin Wall gave up the utopian fight.

Bush 1: worthless. Read my lips said it all. Typical upper class country club Republican who talks one thing but is really just interested in bigger business and bigger government.

Clinton: fucking joke. Funny and not so funny. The most corrupt administration in our lifetime. Full of people who "feel" for the world and were utterly heartless. Except for when the camera was in their direction. A wife who defined the coming of age of a third species of humans who lack the warmth and compasion of most women and have the aggression and meanness of too many men. A guy who could have done so much but did next to nothing except belittle the few institutions left unsoiled in this country.

Bush 2: I hope we luck out with his hairbrained coming war with Iraq. Regardless of how fast Sadam goes down we are setting the stage for horrific acts of terrorism against this country for years to come from the millions of Arabs who see us hand in hand with the racist thieves of Israeli and their equally greedy Jewish American counterparts. This president is probably going to start a cycle of violence and economic strangulation that will be worldwide. And I have yet to see anything what so ever concerning their vision of an Iraq after Sadam, a stable Middle East, a coherent energy policy (are they just going to outright steal Iraqui oil or do they have some front man to pump it out?), a domestic economic policy that is more than just hoping for an upturn, any sort of an approach to environmental problems, and, for that matter, any policy at all about anything besides Iraq and the apparent black hole that exists in Afganistan.

Reagan: one of the myths of histories written by Reagan supporters is that USSR responded to the Reagan spending spree dollar-for-ruble, or at least tried to.

There is no evidence of any significant Soviet weapons system started up in 1981-85 in response to our multi-trillion dollar gift to the defense contractors. Any one who can name one gets a prize.

Moreover, the single most significant person in the Communist collapse was Leonid Brezhnev, as worthless a bureaucraft as existed in human history. Crediting Reagan with the Soviet collapse would be like blaming Bin Ladin for the current economic debacle in the US.

Reagan was the President of Perception, cause in reality he did little that was good.

The collapse of the Soviet Union from being unable to keep up with the Roanld Reagan arms race spending is somewhat of a myth.
More deserving of causing the Russian economy collapse is Polish Solidarity union leader Lech Walesa. For many years after WWII the Soviets made Poland and other Iron Curtain countries manufacture products for below market wages and prices.
When Walesa and his steelworkers refused to work any more for slave wages Russia had the choice of either invading Poland and forcing them to work cheap (a public relations disaster and doomed to fail) or to just pay a fair/going market rate hourly wage.
Once Russia couldn't prop up its economy with bargain priced products from the Iron Curtain countries their fate (economic disaster) was sealed.
Gorbachev said it well when warning Lithuania not to quit the Soviet Union
"You need us and we need you. You and your products have NO CHANCE in the world market."
Which is a polite way of saying ... nobody wants to buy your shitty, overpriced products.
Russia's economic woes continue today and they will forever continue until their society's manufacturing firms and government agencies get a generous supply of Bill Gates' high-tech driven software/computers.
What is true in American business applies to those guys too. Namely, ...
* everybody buys for the same price
* everybody sells for the same price
Those who win are the guys who utilize their computers most efficiently ... i.e. computer efficiency enables greater gross margin profit margins.
Agree?

PS: The Soviets having to go into the world oil spot market (in Rotterdam, the Netherlands) and buy inflated, overpriced crude oil and having to refine it with their shitty technology didn't help either.

We could have a nice debate here about Nixon. Nixon was one of the most compelling and enigmatic people ever to pass gas in the oval office. All the Nixon lovers out there could try to make a case for him. But they’d be wrong. Anybody who wants to defend Nixon is fundamentally ignorant, misguided, stupid, or assinine. They should probably tortured to death and/or should be kicked off this site (or at the very least, that other site) for crimes against all that is good and great about this country.

The quintessential book about Nixon is Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail ’72 by Hunter S. Thompson.

He’s tanned. He’s fit. He’s dead. Nixon in 2004!!!

Rb1—great post. I was with ya until you mentioned Colon Bowel. The dude wins the overrated award.

Kudos to anyone who feels like blastin’ away at Nixon, the Bushes, or Reagan.

He're's an interesting recent article titled,
"I really have come to miss Richard Nixon"

Richard Nixon, the Dracula of American politics, rose up again the other day, this time from the grave.

The Justice Department, as part of the settlement of a 20-year suit brought by Nixon and continued by his estate, agreed to pay the estate $18 million for presidential papers, photographs and tape recordings that were "seized" after Mr. Nixon resigned his office in disgrace in 1974.

I put quotation marks around "seized" because you would think that documents produced by a sitting president on government time belonged to the government and didn't need seizing. The government was merely taking control of its own property, you would think. Nixon thought otherwise and finally, on Monday, got the government to agree.

Once a felon, always a felon.

The incident reminded me, however, of how much I miss Tricky Dick.

It's great to know that when you get up in the morning, you're going to have someone to hate all day. Nixon filled that role for me and for countless other liberals, even as Bill Clinton performs that function now for conservatives.

I wouldn't trade my villain for theirs, though. Bill Clinton is, at worst, a shabby opportunist -- at heart an arrested adolescent who still thinks he can talk his way out of anything -- as worthy of pity as of hatred.

Nixon, on the other hand, was the Real Deal, a malevolent being who helped poison the politics of this country for nearly 30 years. He tried to make the country over in his own twisted, paranoid image. I still thank God, if any, that he failed.

Having said that, it must be admitted that he was, in some ways, a good president. He advanced the cause of internationalism in his dealings with China and the Soviet Union and he fleshed out the skeletal Great Society programs that he inherited from Lyndon Johnson. He was even strong on the environment and workplace safety. He did, in other words, pretty much everything the current crop of Republicans would like to undo. He'd have been a great president if he hadn't been such a creep.

Clinton simply doesn't rise to that level of interest. He's been clever at confounding the worst impulses of the Republican majority in Congress, but I think that grand gestures and sweeping reforms would be beyond him even if he had a decent legislature to work with, which he doesn't.

Still, the Republicans will miss him when he goes. Indiana Congressperson Dan Burton, who feels about Clinton the way the Visigoths felt about Roman architecture, has promised to pursue the president after he leaves office, investigating all that has not yet been investigated and reinvestigating all that has. But it won't be the same.

We laughed when Nixon said, "You won't have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore," implying that we would be at a loss without him, but he was right, eventually. We miss him.

It was, in a perverse way, almost comforting to see him get the last laugh on the "seized" documents deal. It reminded us -- the old-line, hard-core Nixon-haters --how right we were and are still.

Well, heres to all the unbias drivel and the rewriting of history by a bunch of liberals who either did or should have gone to Berkley(oh, before I forget, did Burply lose again today?)

By the way Rodney, Russia is a net exporter of oil(second only to Saudi and the largest exporter of natural gas in the world, I think?) and has been for over twenty years. I think they were even exporters before World War II when a guy named Hitler sent his army up there one winter to see if they could take over those oil fields. The increase in the price of oil is a very, very beneficial thing to Russia. So go to your room and rewrite your last paragraph starting with PS. See://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/rusexp.html

Some of the other stuff that you posted I guess has some reasonable foundation, but Russia basically was operated for 70 years as a socialist/communist dictatorship and economically almost all systems of that nature fail from their own misguided and corrupt foundation.

Ultimately supply and demand is the most efficient economic system and when the government gets to involved in controling business and putting artificial controls on the economy, they normally cause more problems in the long term than they solve in the short term. Just look at what is going on in the supposedly deregulated airline industry right now. Bens simplistic answer to why Russia failed.

To me Nixon was a very paranoid and unstable person. When he was Vice Persident, it was well known that Eisenhower had little respect and a great dislike for him.

The guy did have his moments. He helped end the Viet Nam War (which had very little American involvement until Kennedy and then later Johnson, both Democrats by the by escalated the war.)and did much to reduce the tension and the cold war with both Russia and China... FACTS

He would have been impeached and kicked out of office if he hadn't resigned. Unlike the Clinton impeachment, The vote would not have been bipartisin as Republicans also knew it was time for him to go for obstruction of justice..FACTS

And POWERSLAVE, perhaps you are right that Clinton did not end the double taxation of pensions, although I do remember he was in support of getting rid of the double tax on pensions and he definitely supported and signed a bill liberalizing the social security system regarding older working people.

Damn POWERSLAVE you almost had me convinced, but look what I just found by spending less than five minutes searching:

Federal Statute Enacted Prohibiting State Income Taxation of Certain Pension Income of Nonresidents
On January 10, 1996, President Clinton signed into law H.R. 394, now P.L. 104-95, which prohibits state taxation of certain pension income of nonresidents received after December 31, 1995. The text of P.L. 104-95 follows our observations on the new law. For additional information on this federal legislation, please contact tax partner Jeff Vesely in our San Francisco office.

If you have or can obtain the Acrobat Reader, you may wish to download the printed version of this bulletin (a 225K pdf file), also available via ftp at ftp.pillsburywinthroptax.com/state/bull9602.pdf. You can also download H.Rpt. 104-389, the House Judiciary Committee report for the bill (a 72K pdf file obtained through the GPO Access service); alternatively, that report can be obtained via ftp at ftp.pillsburywinthroptax.com/state/hrpt104389.pdf.

Hell PW he out Republicaned the Republicans on that one.

Doesn't appear to be a Supreme Court case althought(letting PW save some face) I do think the issue may have gone to the Supreme Court.

I just don't understand how intelligent people can be liberals who profess to love our enviornment, help the poor, despise the weathy(unless it is them) there must be a hidden agenda.

Any human that can think and work in this country has a very good chance of being sucessful at suppoerting himself and his family. Although the liberal Democrats continue to work tirelessly at changing this system.

God Bless Ronald Regan where ever he thinks he is right now and OH OH God Bless Rush Limpball

Benatrueamericanwhojoinedthereservestoavoidatriptoindochina

Uh Doddie, I mean Doggie.

I had been typing my post off and on and did not see your latest post until after I had posted my post.

glug glug glug

benwhoshouldhavegonewithmilkyandjesustonight

The worse presidents of the last century were, in order, Woodrow Wilson (The road to Hell really is paved with good intentions. In the name of peace, he gave us World War I, a worthless league of nations, prohibition, and the Red Scare and the Palmer raids; the period from about 1917 to 1925 was the nadir for civil liberties of the 20th century.) William Jefferson Clinton (Civil liberties went to shit under his administration, He destroyed our intelligence capabilities, he may have been in the pay of the Chinese govt, and he was CORRUPT, CORRUPT, CORRUPT. O, and one other reason: Janet Reno) Lyndon Baines Johnson (CORRUPT, CORRUPT, CORRUPT!!!, and as a bonus, he gave us the Vietnam War.) Honorable mention goes to Nixon (a thief) and Jimmy Carter, who was simply worthless.

The best presidents of the 20th century were Ronald Reagan (He ended inflation, and ended the soviet union. His decision to place Pershing missiles in West Germany forced the commies to try to match it with SS 20s, which they could not afford, and which alienated the indegenous population, his support of Lech Walesa was invaluable as well.) Teddy Roosevelt (He made America a player on the world stage.) and Harry S Truman (Underated, But he had the balls to nuke the Japs when it was necessary, his administration developed the theory of containment of communism, and the Marshall plan was the smartest (and most altruistic) foreign aid program this country has ever had.

Honorable mention goes to 3 non Americans--Winston Churchill not for beating Hitler (he didn't) but for not losing. Had he surrendered in 1940, we would have lost the war later. Margaret Thatcher (see Anti communist reasons for Reagan above) and Pope John Paul II, who probably does not aprove of this board, but whose support for the Solidarity movement in Poland was instrumental in the downfall of communism.

PW I agree with some of your thougts, but where the hell is my apology?

By Powerslave on Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 02:23 pm:

"Ben: Clinton did not end the double taxation of california retirement income. A supreme court case did"

PS:
Glad you mentioned Winston Churchill, the greatest hero of the previous century. What amazes me is that there are people out there who wouldn't agree with this assessment.

Ben my research staff is checking out your above comments, I will reply when their report is on my desk.
Dogster Churchill was of course half American, that is why he kind of qualifies for this list. In the 1930's he was called a dangerous warmongerer for fulminating against Hitler by the same type of people who call Bush and Blair dangerous warmongerers for fulminating against Iraq.

I think most will agree that Churchill was the man.

My father, who was very bright and a good judge of character, thought Churchill to be the smartest and most intelligent political figure of World War II. I agree and it is well worth the time to spend a few days reading about this most amazing Hombre.

Ronnie was in lala land during his last term and probably part of his first.George the first was pulling the strings from behind the Ronnie puppet in a warmup for his one term.he may currently be rehashing his gig as presidential puppetmaster once again.

Powerslave,

I have said on many occasions that Clinton is a brilliant poliltician, but one of the most corrupt people to ever sit in the Oral Office. So I mostly agree with you. But you can't criticize Clinton without looking in the mirror. You are just a whoremonger and therefore not of the moral caliber necessary to judge Clinton. LOL. Just ask Superman.

Winston Churchill gets my vote for best statesman of the last 100 years.

Most analysts concur that Ronnie, Maggie, Lech, and Pope Johnny were the four principal figures responsable for the fall of the Soviet system. Even many Russians have said that the arms race broke the back of their economic system. That is one of the reasons Putin has said he prefers to get comfy with the west rather than try to openly compete. I probably should add that I am not a Republican, British, Polish, or Catholic lest someone think I am biased.

Ben is absolutely correct in his statement that market economies make the most efficient use of resources. We have the results of 100 years of head to head competition between communist systems and free market democracies. Its pretty clear which system provides a better standard of living for it's populace.

Batsterwhothinksheknowseverything

Batster, I do not criticize Clinton for getting blowjobs, If I was married to Hillary I would too. I criticize him for lying under oath about it, which is a felony that gets normal people put in jail.

Is this a joke?

"The best presidents of the 20th century were Ronald Reagan (He ended inflation, and ended the soviet union. His decision to place Pershing missiles in West Germany forced the commies to try to match it with SS 20s, which they could not afford.)"

The Soviets put the SS 20s in E. Europe before the Pershings were deployed.

Rodney says:

"Those who win are the guys who utilize their computers most efficiently ... i.e. computer efficiency enables greater gross margin profit margins. "

Nah, all computers do is let workers log on to Club Hombre instead of working.

Geez, another misinterpretation of history (from Rodney):

"When Walesa and his steelworkers refused to work any more for slave wages Russia had the choice of either invading Poland and forcing them to work cheap (a public relations disaster and doomed to fail) or to just pay a fair/going market rate hourly wage. Once Russia couldn't prop up its economy with bargain priced products from the Iron Curtain countries their fate (economic disaster) was sealed. "

Errrr... when this really happened (in 1981), the Russians simply told the Polish authorities to crack down on Solidarity and put the leaders in jail. Things got real quiet in Poland after that until events in other Eastern European countries reached Poland.

Lech Walesa as a national hero is a big joke. The Poles bounced him for corruption real fast. Back in the 1980's, he lived off CIA money funneled to him via Hollywood (of all places), I once ran across his file by accident.

Winston Churchill?

Geez, I grant you that he had his brief shining moment at a critical time, but he loses megapoints for Gallipoli.