Just thought we should be prepared for tomorrow with a pre-designed thread.

I was writing a post and I switched to a website real quick. When I came back, I lost my post. Question for the computer geeks. Was there anyway on my operating system or website where I could recall my keystrokes without a keystroke program? I will go further on this about keystroke software in a moment.

I notice some of you cite Huffington Post. I like it and am especially partial to the editorials on the right. A funny one yesterday was a guy writing about his daughter wanting to be Sarah Palin for Halloween, he said 'first thought that came to my mind was where am I gonna get $150,000 from'.

I keep getting blue screen of death so I am going to post in parts.

Anyway, I know many of you are nervous on the outcome. The Mainstream Media (MSM) is making it look very close. I purposely went to the drudge report over the weekend. That poor girlie boy (or so I have heard) was just about to throw in the towel on the election. Then.... a Gallup poll had an anomaly one day and John McCain was 1% ahead of Obama. Well Drudge went apeshit. He had it as a headliner with alot of supporting articles for how MSM and polls had it wrong.

It kind of gave the whole Republican party some momentum. As history has proven, you give these guys an inch....they are attacking Iran (lol).

I have four hardcore Republican friends. All four of them are spread across three states and don't know each from boo, but lo an behold, sometimes within two days of each other I get the exact same email from all four of them. Some were real bullshit. Obama is Muslim, Prop 8 scare tactics (yeah, I even got those from the out of state guys), the liberal media going for Obama, etc. I would usually go to snopes.com and sure enough, they would have an article debunking all these anti (fill in the blank, in other words, anything that isn't christian as they see themselves or true american).

I want to post this article from the Huffington Post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keith-thomson/the-most-accurate-electio_b_140181.html

I am a betting man myself and as they say 'follow the money'. One sportsbook in the UK has Obama 1-7 to win. Those are pretty strong odds. I can't say it isn't impossible for McCain to win but 1-7 favoring Obama makes me feel good that Obama should win easily.

One of the first things I will do will send my four conservative friends a note. I have already told them before, because a couple of them are hardcore christians, 'if heaven is spending an eternity with you guys, give me hell'.

Why do I like Obama? While I think Washington will be business as usual, I am looking forward to several changes. I have been witnessing a giveaway by congress to all of these corporations, that was Bush signing but with a Democratic congress. I have always thought Pelosi and Reid were worthless, they are proving it to me. Some things you gotta let them fall apart on their own. I am sorry you banks lent the money, I am sorry you bought the house, I am sorry you invested in CDO's (people disgusted with their 2% cd's, pensions salivating for a 10% return, unknowing people going to their stockbroker and people putting them in it). But lets face it, all these bailouts are not really going to solve the problem. At least IMHO. However, my hope is with Obama we will get back to some meaningful regulation, although it is way too late.

But I am looking forward to not having to hear everday all the goddamn fear mongering. First of all, compared to what we have spent since 9/11, I would honestly have rather settled for a few more airplanes into buildings over the past 7 years. Although I really don't think it would have continued with frequency. I know alot of Bushies like to tell you we haven't had an attack on american soil since 9/11. I wouldn
't be so quick to credit the actions of the Bush Admin as the primary reason. Incredible amount of money being spent to keep us safe is all I am saying and reality tells me if anyone is determined to strike us again, they will find a way.

I am looking forward to shutting down this Christian right conservative movement. I just feel they are dangerous and don't really reflect anything close to the Jesus I have read about. They need to be muzzled not only for me but for themselves, they are dancing way to close to the seperation of church and state.

I bet some of these wall streeters, maybe not the fat cats, but the regular stock broker, the secretary, the appraiser, the loan agent, the realtor, etc would give anything to go back 8 years ago and have strict regulation. This thing is going to take our nation on one wild ride. Very few people in America (and worldwide) are untouched by this debacle.

I am looking forward to walking with less general fear of the world, my neighbors and my government. As a smoker I am sometimes told by people to quit. My stock response is usually 'my grandmother lived to be 100 years old'. Most will respond 'Did she smoke'. I answer, 'no, but she minded her own business.

And honestly, I hope taxes actually go up. That seemed to be a dominant theme this election, but lets face it, the national debt is skyrocketing. I have no intention to be of the generation that left this kind of bill to future generations.

This whole rant may be moot, McCain may win or Obama may prove to be as weak as the Democratic Congress has been over the past two years. But I am willing to take a chance. And at least, Bush and Cheney will be out. IMHO, these guys seemed to relish keeping the American public in a state of fear. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Back to drudge report and the gallup poll showing a 1% lead, the next day the poll was back to having Obama up by almost 6%. You could feel the angst of Drudge having to take the article down and put the new poll up in a very small note. I think was really pissed at that, because after that his website went totally into the gutter. He was bringing up every possible Obama accusation and propaganda piece he could find. It was frankly to me, mean, arrogant and borderline racist.

But it dawned on me. Alot of people go to this website and consider it to be fair and balanced, or possibly getting the type of article they want to believe and make them feel that they are correct in their beliefs. So they don't go to other places and walk with what they read (kind of like people who watch Foxnews exclusively). Personally, I am far left, but I read and watch both perspectives, believe me, I listen to Air America and am often sickened. A bunch of whiners at times, I like their rants but I get upset when there is no offer of a solution.

Screw that Republican majority in Congress, the Senate and Presidency or being called a traitor or un-american. Cindy Sheehan may have been a whackjob but at least she wasn't afraid to stand up for her beliefs in the face of an ultra popular right wing, pro american, war mongering culture during the time. I rarely agreed with the Bush administration. Life does not revolve around a 'you are with us or against us' mentality.

So as I watched the crowds at these McCain-Palin rallies with their rabid blood thirsty offensive comments. I could only think of the Drudge reports, Foxnews, some Fundamentalist Churches, and the need of people to feel they can kick the crap out of someone (oddly enough, while their children can't get a decent education, they pay more for energy, their jobs get downsized, and their pensions get pilfered), by that same Neo-con, anti regulation, intolerant of anything other than Christianity, walk all over the constitution, bunch of narrowminded agenda driven thieves that has become this Bush administration.

I actually wasn't a big Bill Clinton fan. I thought he was more republican than some republicans. Once GW Bush came in, I then became a Bill Clinton fan. Although I didn't always agree with him (Leonard Peltier pardon for instance), I always admired that at least he could give a cogent opinion on his decision making and would cite facts of the issue. In the case of GW Bush, he too often shot from the hip, he kind of reminded of a texas hold'em player who continually pushes all in on a no limit table. It could be very profitable, but it could bankrupt you to. I admired Bush's ability to use his emotions and gut instincts in his decision making, I like to factor those in my decision making to. But then again, I am not putting millions of lives, money and resources at stake and hoping I made the right decision because my gut and my emotion felt good about what I was doing.

Believe me, I don't like child molestors, rapists, three strike violators, gang bangers, etc. But we have to treat Wall Street bankers, real estate lenders, brokers, government officials etc with the same kind of jurisprudence as we do those other criminals. This is taking a toll on the american public more than those other criminals, and although those are some of the most heinous criminals, so are people who bankrupt people when representing themselves as people who are acting in that persons best interest.

Watching Angelo Mozilo at the congressional hearings around 5 months or so ago made me go batshit. The guy had a great tan, a cadre of attorneys backing him up, alot of lies, and a lot of forgetfulness. It was sad to see, as Mozilo knew no matter what, he was gonna come out of it with little more than a scolding the one I would get from my neighbor for my baseball landing in her backyard. The days of people like this walking off after their failures with millions of dollars, great lawyers and arrogance have got to come to an end (as I said before, for my good and their own good).

I used to have a friend, made a fortune in real estate, the majority fraudulent, strong armed, and uncompromising. He felt he was a great businessman, and honestly, he for whatever sanctions, fines, and lack of credibility he has received, he has made out better than you would think. He always had kept an account on the side for legal matters. Cost of doing business. I would admire it, but I saw the many ruined lives and fortunes he ran through to make to his top. Not worth it IMHO. I am not saying I am a choirboy, I am not, but too many peoples lives and fortunes can be squandered when I feel either really smart or really greedy or a combination of both. I would consider myself lower middle class, but I am comfortable with it.

I have heard so many stock brokers and realtors a few years back and during this runup brag like you would not believe. I always felt it was not their extraordinary intelligence that had them where they were at, but more of being in the right place at the right time. In fact, I would hope they would rather admit they were not intelligent enough to know what positions they put their clients in than to actually have been smart enough, yet selfish enough, to walk their clients off a cliff. At one bar alot of the high finance boys I knew often hung out, I used to call these guys 'aristocrats'. And, if their buzz turned them into loud mouth braggarts speaking of their genius, I would often ask them to spell 'Albuquerque'. Good way to shut up a smart ass.

Man, its almost time for polls to open in the east. Sorry about this long winded rant. I guess it is just that I am so longing for change. I can't say I am not a cause to the problem, but I will say that since Bush came in, I have been frugal, I have held my opinions, I didn't go big with debt, and I tried to be responsible and accountable. My last CD was renewed at like 1.56%, yeah I could have made more in the stock market or even a cd with a bank like say Indymac, but look at the results.
Reality is pretty scary for me right now, and I didn't work as a realtor or stockbroker, buy a mcmansion, or take on heavy credit card debt. So what I am saying is that if I am nervous about the future, can you imagine those guys?

I hope an Obama will allow us all collectively to stop for a few minutes and reflect on our past actions these past few years, for whatever reason, patriotism, fear, greed, morals, or just thinking you were doing what you felt was the right thing to do, because as we look back, this is a real mess economically, socially, and financially. Maybe I am overreacting and expecting miracles, but I will really be satisfied just to see this society not stay the course on the road this country has been going in for the past 8 years.

I'm so excited. It's looking like now we will finally be able to get rid or all those pesky corporations once and for all. I have been skeptical in the past but am now willing to give Obama a chance. Where do I go to sign up for all the really cool free stuff he was promising? I love free stuff!!! It's going to be kind of a relief not having to work so hard any more.

IAS:

You are rooting for the wrong guy. It is the Republicans who give out all the free stuff. For example, McCain and Bush gave you the Iraq War for free; they spent over 1 trillion dollars on it and didn't even ask you to pay one cent. They also gave all kinds of free stuff to corporations, and rather than ask you to pay for this stuff they are allowing it to just trickle down into your pocket.

No, IAS, you are a McCain/Bush man through and through. They give you all sorts of goodies for free.

Good luck, and may the best man win as I am 100 percent sure he will.

I am sancho


I too have been skeptical of Obama....I want some of the Kool Aid so I won't have to pay for gas or my mortgage!

Just follow Peggy Joseph she will lead you to the place where if you take care of Obama....he will take are of you!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6ikOxi9yYk

Free debt. That's what Bush gave us. Free tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. He freed the banking industry from those burdensome regulations so they could give golden parachutes to their execs while they gave investors golden showers.

It's been a great 8 years, hasn't it? Our economy has never been stronger. Our military forces are strong and ready to respond to any global crisis. We hold the moral high ground on issues such as torture. We are respected by our allies for our global diplomacy efforts. We led a successful effort to bring peace to the Middle East.

Yes, Bush will go down in history as the greatest president ever. And McCain--what can I say?

The polls in Virginia (and other states) are going to close in about two minutes. I am sensing this is going to be a blow out. Obama will win by about 9 to 10 percent, and will get around 375 electoral votes.

I just hope I am right.

Woo Hoo!!!! Kentucky and West Virginia in the McCain side. Them thair Berkley hippies came down to Kentucky but they told 'em "yer fellas ain't from around here is ya? But ya got a purdy mouth."

McCain gets Kentucky, West Virginia, Tennessee, Oklahoma and South Carolina. States known for having highly educated populations. Is there a university in any of those states? And don't tell me that UK, WVU, OU, UT or USC count. They are nothing but high schools with ash trays.

Can you say "Deliverance?"

BTW, it's Berkeley

The astute observer would have noticed there were several other misspellings in that sentence as well.

NBC just called Ohio for Obama. Game's up McCain!

ALLLLRRRRIIIIIIIGGGHHHHTTTT!!!!!!!!

Of course you realize what this means....... Now I am formally licensed to whine and complain and blame all my problems on you guys for the next 4 years.

IAS,

You would have whined anyway, even if McCain had won. You'd still have had Pelosi to bitch about. The good citizens of the US have given you a wealth of things to bitch about.

But to your credit, IAS, you have not blamed the problems of the past 8 years on Clinton in the way that Beachman has.

They just called it, Obama wins. I feel like I just woke up from a nightmare.

---

quote:

TJU announced: I feel like I just woke up from a nightmare.

---

So the real question now is who's going to be running the country - Obama or Pelosi?

Other than annoy you, what legislation is Pelosi responsible for passing or blocking that has harmed you.

Don't get me wrong, she annoys me too, but your question sounds like Talk Radio/Fox News drivel.

Smitopher:

My hope is that a Republican Party that is based on Real Conservative Values rises from the ashes of the repudiation by the electorate of Bush/Palin. A party about small, fiscally responsible government that does not interfere in the private affairs of its citizens and recognizes that the "Culture Wars" and it's religious warriors are not "True Americans".

I am optimistic that Obama with his demonstrated grace and charm, brains, ability to select extremely competent strategists to guide him, the good will that the whole world and even most of our own population will be willing to grant him because it has been an 8 year nightmare for all of us on every continent - all of those things have temporarily slayed my natural cynicism and I actually think this guy will get it going in the right direction if not get it done. If this dream actually comes to fruition - a dynamic new power base leading this country and the world forward, the GOP will emerge as a party 100% completely dominated by religious conservatives and may relegate themselves to fringe status.

If Obama falters then the neo-cons and deregulators bitch their way back into credibility and combine with the religious right for a revival of everything we've been enduring.

I am incredibly impressed by Obama's style and think he will maintain the confidence of the American people even if he doesn't have miracle cures, and is certainly a 2 term president (where can I get a future line on that right now?) - I was not a supporter during the primary campaign but lately I see qualities in him that could auger greatness. It would seem ironically consistent with the way things just seem to go (think Tampa Bay Rays in the World Series - there was a World Series this year, right?) that history will record that the most incompetent presidency in the history of the U.S. was immediately succeeded by the most competent and dynamic.

Fuck, I feel good!

Smitopher, that sounds like the Libertarian party.

Now go sell it to 50 million voters...

I had two separate conversations this week with nominal university grads (most colleges here are a JOKE) in Mexico where they were incredulous that a black could win the presidency in the US. They were also shocked I wasn't ANGRY that it was happening, and mouths wide open when I said I actually strongly PREFERRED Obama.

Well, since Ralph Nader's in the same boat as Smitopher's party!

IAS...sorry for your loss buddy!

I heard you were leaving the country...have you pick a SEA destination yet?

And yes...you are licensed ;-)

Yes we can!! turn up the volume http://www.palinaspresident.us/ There is a lot of work ahead of us, but we CAN make change for the better of America.

If you live in San Diego, we need change in the 52nd district, and we could use your help. http://www.sddemocrats.org/

RG

California's 52nd district is specifically gerrymandered by the Democrats to remain solidly Republican by a large margin thus keeping Republicans out of other San Diego districts. It is known as "packing". Democrats don't stand a snowballs chance in hell in the 52nd but it is by the Democrats design and for the benefit of the Democrats in the larger picture.

It warms my heart to know for the next four years IAS will be relegated in the political threads to discussing such things as the fine intricacies of gerrymandering.

Now if we could just get Beachman's youtube links banned, we could live in peace happily forever.

Congratulations LAGuy, Cat and all the rest of you. Obviously I may disagree about a few things but I actually do like you guys and I know a few of you are pretty happy today. I'll take solace in that and let you enjoy your moment. You all worked hard for it.

But answer me this. If "Change" is such a good thing, why are you guys always making such a fuss and struggling against climate change?

Now LAGuy. Since I know you might have some connections, can I use you for a reference when I find out who my new local collective's boss is going to be now?

I guess we won't hear from Beachman until sometime in 2011, before the Iowa caucuses.

Oh, I intercepted this email that's going out in a couple of months to Sancho and the other Republicans out there.


From: Democratic Central Command
To: Republicans, Libertarians, Evangelicals and Conservatives
Subject: You're fucked
Date: January 20, 2009

Fuckers,

We are now in complete and total power, and as far as we're concerned, for the next 4-8 years, you can go fuck yourselves.

Sincerely, lick balls and die,

Your Democratic Overlords

P.S. Hey, Joe Lieberman, fuck you, welcome to hell.

I did actually get a couple of text messages on my phone along those lines from some completely random stranger last night.

IAS asks: "If "Change" is such a good thing, why are you guys always making such a fuss and struggling against climate change?"

We liberals like change so much that we even want to change climate change. Nothing inconsistent there...

There is one aspect to yesterday's presidential election that does actually piss me off. If Obama had only worked harder and gotten about 6,000 more votes in Missouri, my above prediction (about 20 posts up) that he would get "around 375 electoral votes" would have been exactly right (except for the "around" part). Complicating the matter though, this assumes North Carolina ends up in Obama's column, as it appears it will.

The life of a CH prognosticator is not an easy one. And (in case you ask) this is further illustrated by my prediction Obama would beat McCain by 9 or 10 percentage points, which evidenced a severe case of irrational exuberance.

I have intentionally stayed off of this thread because of how most have to take shit to a personal level. Some of the stuff said here about fellow board members is just fucking ridiculous.

Now that the elections are over, I cant help but one small post:

Cat, I know you are just joking around, but lets hope the dems have a little class and dont take that approach. At the same time, lets hope that the repubs dont bitch and moan for the next 4 to 8 years.

If the dems spend all their time blaming the repubs and playing pay-back and the repubs do nothing but create distractions, nothing will get done - then we all are fucked.

The biggest downside to the elections is that unfortunately most of the jack-offs that haven't done their jobs were re-hired.

Originally I was concerned with total demo control. Now, I am not so sure about that.
I think Obama is strong enough and has the political clout to get things done. Obama is a smart guy, I dont think he will let the far left run him. At least I hope not. If he does, we are going to be just as fucked as we have been with Bush.

Even though I voted for McCain (reluctantly), if Obama is who he says he is, he could wind up being a great president - I hope he is. There. I said it.

PS I am still not happy about the redistribution of wealth, but I will do what most will do. I will figure out how to make a little bit more to cover the extra taxes and hire a better CPA. Blast away boys, AZ

AZ,

Republicans are fairly non-important at the national level for the next two years. The Republicans in the Senate won't be obstructionists because there won't be enough of them. In the House, doesn't matter, Pelosi can rule with an iron fist if she wants.

Anyways, your warm words about Obama and your public support - of course, after the game is over - has been noted in your file. While I'll do all I can for you, I suggest you make an immediate donation to Janet Napolitano's PAC in order to remain on the Good Guy's List.

(Message edited by catocony on November 05, 2008)

Our secret plan is to step into the background and not obstruct anything while Pelosi an Co. orchestrates a massive train wreck that will be talked about for decades to come. McCain couldn't bring down Obama but I betcha' Pelosi can run him off a cliff. You Democrats should recognize this strategy and just how powerful it is since of course we copied it from you. The old "let the party controlling all three branches of government orchestrate a train wreck and then exploit said train wreck for political gains strategy"

IAS:

If you guys are really serious about your plan to enable a Democratic train wreck, you should instruct Coleman, Chambliss, and Stevens to concede their Senate seats so that we could have 60 votes in the Senate and do real damage (it would also help if you would convince Lieberman to kill himself, the only honorable thing left for him to do, so we could replace him with a real Democrat).

Could you please get on it? You do this for us and we might consider your earlier request for a reference.

(Message edited by LAguy on November 05, 2008)

Jeb Bush stepped into the security line at MIA directly behind me this morning at about 5:30am while I was scanning through the New York Times. Felt kinda sorry for the dude. Just standing there by himself while the entire airport was all abuzz about his brother's era finally coming to an end.

The redistribution of wealth has already occurred. It was transferred upwardly though the tax loopholes, unfair deductions and intentionally unenforced tax fraud. A few decades of this reality renders meaningless the weeping and wailing of those who say "We pay most of the taxes!! Give us a break! We got our money the old-fashioned way! We stole it! Lower our income tax rate even though is has no correlation with what our actual income is."

Yeah, you pay most of the taxes because you hijacked the wealth of this country from the people who actually earned it.

Electing a compassionate moderate yesterday may be the only thing that spares the true extremists from the hideous fate they actually deserve.

Re-redistribution of wealth is coming. The real question: Is it going to happen with a lot of bloodshed or are we going to do it the hard way?

Something to ponder!

Have a day of your choosing!

(Message edited by blissman on November 05, 2008)

>>Have a day of your choosing!<<

Blissman, I'm glad you are finally showing some sensitivity. After you attempted to destroy Pinhead's lifestyle by telling him to have a nice day, he apparently went off the deep end and hasn't been heard from since. Although this heinousness toward Pinhead was not appreciated, at least you learn from your mistakes.

(Message edited by LAguy on November 05, 2008)

(Message edited by LAguy on November 05, 2008)

I_AM_PSYCHO spews "Our secret plan is to step into the background and not obstruct anything while Pelosi an Co. orchestrates a massive train wreck"

Sorry psycho, your friends in the GOP have already wrecked the train. Obama's challenge is getting it back onto the tracks.

(Message edited by Hot4ass2 on November 05, 2008)

I remember the transition period from Bush to Clinton in 92, it was exciting to see it being planned out. This is going to be a nice 75 days, counting them down until noon January 20, 2009.

And the best news is my 35 cent Washington Post from this morning is already worth a couple of bucks from souvenir and collectibles hunters. See, the first financial rewards from the Obama administration. Of course I lost close to $15k in today's minor stock market crash, but that's not slowing me down. It's all on Bush's record for the next couple of months.

Cat, I guess what I was trying to say, and this may sound really corny, but it would be great if we could all get on the same fucking team. We are going to need to. This little down-turn is nothing compared to what is coming. Just wait. This thing is going to get ugly. As far as Napolitano, I think she has done a pretty good job.

BTW, hot4ass, is it really necessary to do your lame name calling thing? Most of your posts seem like you are a really bitter guy. Maybe its not important to you, but CH is a little different than most, there is a good chance you are going to run into some of these guys at some point. Lighten up, life is too short.

Be prouder than usual to be an American today. An intelligent man was elected President and we don't have to be embarrased by our leadership anymore. Does he have all the right answers? No, and neither does anyone else.

http://www.barackaspresident.com/

RG.

It kinda of interesting for all the new voters Obama got out, the media promoting him for free and the over $650,000,000 he spent......he only got 2 million more votes in the popular vote than Bush did in 2004.


It looks like his administration is of to a good start when his choice for Chief Of Staff can't make up if he wants the job or not!

"It looks like his administration is of to a good start when his choice for Chief Of Staff can't make up if he wants the job or not!"

First off, another outstanding example of English being mangled. If Florida passes an "English-only" law, you're going to have to move!

Unlike your guy McCain, who picks people (i.e., Palin) for political reasons (and managed to fuck that up royally), Obama is choosing people who are talented and have options to consider. Why would you consider someone's taking a position of such significance without taking time to carefully reflect on the decision a virtue???? Oh, that's right, your a Bush guy, and he is "The Decider." Deciding quickly (i.e., Palin signing on to McCain's team) is more important than deciding correctly in RightWing World.

H4A-

IAS is a good guy. He rarely writes anything here without tongue firmly planted in cheek. He's just having a little fun. Don't confuse him the Leechman.

Bush decided for Palin signing on McCain's team?

Unlike you and LaGuy who edit and make sure your every posting is being graded by your 120 grade English teacher.....this is a chat board. You try to impress each other that you are well educated and intelligent!

I have no worries.....luckily I just recently sold one of my companies for a quite considerable profit. I did reward my 16 employees and I hope the new owners are able to stay profitable and keep them employed. I built a successful company from scratch in the last 3 years with no help from the government and provided 16 jobs with an average salary of $50,000 a year which is quite good here in Florida. I took a lot of risk and did not ask the government a dime to help me be successful. I not only paid my fair share of taxes....I created a business that create 16 more jobs that pay taxes.

I didn't have to start a new business....I was making great money before. Believe me with the proposed Obama and Democratic policies I would never risk a venture with those policis and I am sure there are 10's to 100's of thousands of small business owners feel the same.


You can do all the gloating and celebrating you want to.....but Obama has to now deliver on al these promises he made. Where do I go to get the same Health Care plan he and his family has for free that he promised us?

Beachman, I am not so sure that you are right about small business owners not willing to take the risk of a new venture in the future. People that dont work for others and start their own company tend to do that for reasons other than just profit. People will continue to start new businesses and create jobs because they cant help themselves. That is just what they do.

Disclosure: this is not an endorsement of higher taxes and increased regulation.

Laguy: If you guys are really serious about your plan to enable a Democratic train wreck, you should instruct Coleman, Chambliss, and Stevens to concede their Senate seats so that we could have 60 votes in the Senate and do real damage

Coleman was supposed to throw the race in Minnesota. Franken is of course a centerpiece in our vast Republican scheme for total global domination in 2016. We aren't really sure if Obama will do all kinds of crazy stuff or not. He might turn out to be perfectly reasonable. Not much history to go on there. But with Franken on board we could rest assured that it is only a matter of time before the Democratic party train left the tracks. We'll try to throw the recount.

And you'll have to admit, IAS, that Franken would bring some much-needed comic relief to the Senate, the most dense collection of windbags in the known universe.

My only problem with the Franken campaign was where was Davis? (The Franken & Davis show on Saturday Night Live was arguably my favorite part of the show).

Would Franken as a member of the Senate re-enact some of their skits, e.g., by poking out Mitch McConnell's eyeballs with a sharp stick? Now THAT would be funny!

Although I still have some hope, it looks like we may never find out.

(Message edited by LAguy on November 06, 2008)

(Message edited by LAguy on November 06, 2008)

IAS,

This will make you feel better:

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/obama_win_causes_obsessive?utm_source=embedded_video

Azguy-

I am sure some small business owners will venture but their will be many others who othrwise might venture will not because of proposed policies of Obama and the Democrats.


Many who already have small businesses will not expand and add jobs because of the risk of not knowing what the consequences of the proposed policies of Obama and the Democrats.

The market is already showing the biggest sell off after a Presidential election!

If I recall we also had one of the biggest sell offs in history before the Presidential election. I wonder whether something other than the election is responsible.

Your move Beachman.

Beachman,

I will jump in the fray here. I like you have created quite a few businesses. One of the companies that I help build became a Fortune 500 company. I made a lot of money but I hope to make more in my current endeavor which is a small highly profitable company.

In all my time in business, I have never considered tax policy when making business decisions. Never. When I have a good idea in front of me, I judge the idea based on its merits not based on tax policy. I know a lot of people and no one looks at things this way.

Here's another reason why your idea is dumb. So you have an awesome idea to create a new company, but you decide not to open it because of tax policy. What are you going to do instead? Watch Monday Night Football. If you are an entrepreneur, then you are so independent of tax policy.

I think that a much larger risk is the importance of Wall Street in business as the government begins to socialize our banking institutions. The big payoff in American business has NOTHING to do with tax policy, the goal is to go public and cash in at Wall Street. You should really be whining about the bail out rather than Obama's tax policies.

BT,

You see, you're like a lot of guys and have actually started businesses. Beachman most likely has not. Like "Joe the Dumbass, er, Plumber" he was worried that if he ever made $250,000 NET PROFIT, he might have to pay a few bucks more. Of course he's only making $50,000, so maybe he should actually make some real money before complaining.

If the tax rates were going from 36% to 90%, that may stop some people from expanding because why work harder to make money you'll never see. However, I've never seen the Laffer Curve kick in on incremental moves, from 36% to 39%. It's idiotic to think that someone will stop working or stop growing just to save one incremental penny on dollars after a random line.

But logic and truth have never stopped guys like Beachman before.

On the flip side, I could point to a specific well known national company that was just down the street from here until a few years ago when they packed up the whole operation and moved to a different US state for the expressed purpose of freeing themselves of oppressive California state taxes and regulations. Expand the California model nationally and see if that doesn't simply accelerate an exodus of jobs to China.

One of the problems with the tax-scare line of thinking is it assumes the Democrats federally are going to tax the way Franklin Roosevelt wanted to (indeed Beachman likes to cite the Roosevelt example of 70 or 80 years ago to make his points now). In fact, and this may be hard for some diehard Republicans to understand, the Democrats are capable of learning from history.

Guess what, people like Robert Rubin and Warren Buffett, very successful business people (indeed even more successful than Beachman!) are going to be behind tax and economic policy, not Ralph Nader. The members of Obama's economic team are going to understand well what works and what doesn't. And that has become the bottom line for most of the Democratic party.

Bluestraveller-

When it comes to small businesses....I am not talking about potential Fortune 500 Companies or Companies traded on the stock exchange.

I am taking about small private owned companies that line the major streets in every city and town.

Locally owned restaurants, daycare, hair salons, pool supply stores, lawn care, etc. Small businesses who have 2-3 employees to 20-30 employees that might expand or open a second location.


Many owners will cut back and there has been talk about doubling the minimum Federal wage. People who operate their businesses as sole proprietors will not be able to pay mandated health insurance for the 2-3 employees they employed.


Laguy do you think people with money are going to invest in a market where the President elected has basically declared war on them and told them they will pay higher taxes to support the 95% who will get tax breaks and refunds. It only take 20-30% of that wealth to be invested other places globally to put us in a depression!


Just look at the retail numbers....the lowest since 1969. When the the weekend after Thanksgiving retail sales go way down....you will really see the shit hit the fan. Obama plan is to tax us out of a recession that will probably become a depression with his tax plan.


A friend of mine had lunch with Jim Rodgers (economist) this week and he said Jim told him that he is pulling out of the US market. That Obama's plan does not make economic sense and that many people will not invest in the climate that Obama proposes to create.

Not everyone will invest elsewhere but it won't take much leaving this country to drive us futher into turmoil.

Beachman:

The points you make largely represent what could be cut and pastes from what the Republicans were saying before Clinton took office. I'll take the economy during the Clinton era over that during the Bush era.

Always being the pragmatic type I have analyzed the situation and decided the best way to profit on it is by investing heavily in the stock of Kraft Foods, which of course manufactures Kool-Aid®. I recon global Kool-Aid® consumption has increased on the order of at least 1,000% recently. Surly the stock price will soon reflect this unprecedented global increase in Kool-Aid® consumption.

Laguy....that must mean you want a Republican Congress....the last 6 years of Clinton is where most everything got done!

Clinton's economic policies that led to the prosperity we enjoyed during his two terms (including the tax increases that contributed to a balanced budget) were implemented largely during the first two years of his presidency when we had a Democratic Congress.

The Republicans at the time were going hysterical about how his tax bill would destroy the economy. They were wrong.

IAS,

You are clearly not on the Democratic Good Guys List so expect an anal cavity search from a bull-dyke Pelosi supporter on your first re-entry to the US after Jan 20th.

Beachman, it is clear that you have zero understanding of economic theory. Do you honestly think that businesses will close if the TOP TAX RATE goes up a percent or two? Are all of your small businesses show NET PROFIT above $250,000 after all deductions and accounting measures? Because the vast majority don't earn that much TAXABLE INCOME.

Why are Republicans fascinated with Kool-Aid?® I don't get it. I hate the shit. Always have. Republicans seem to be obsessed with gay sex and Kool-Aid®. I imagine the typical Republican social event involves gay sex while sipping Kool-Aid®.

Leechman,

The stock sell-off has nothing to do with who was elected. Zip. Zero, Nada. Nothing. If you'd read something other than right wing blogs you'd have noticed over the past few days that the set of economic indicators rolling in have been dismal, which reflects many different things (credit crunch, massive debt, etc.) but does not have anything to do with who was elected. People did not stop buying cars because the polls suggested Obama might win. Manufacturers did not reduce durable goods orders because of their fear that Obama might win. You seem to have a third grade-level understanding of the economy. My apologies to any third graders I might have just offended.

Laguy-



Do a little research!

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/wm1835.cfm

Heritage Foundation. Now there's a reputable, nonpartisan source of information.

I imagine the typical Republican social event involves gay sex while sipping Kool-Aid®.

I see you have been to one of our secret underground hootenanny's.

The Heritage Foundation, now there's a credible organization. In 1994,The Heritage foundation advised Newt Gingrich and other conservatives on the development of the "Contract with America", which was credited with helping to produce a Republican majority in Congress. That's act two, after Reagan, of this whole apocalypse. Obama is going tax any small business an extra 3% on anything over $250,000 which is where things were with Clinton. That means if a business makes $300,000 it going to pay and extra $1500 a year in taxes, You really think that's going to close any doors? It's a tiny percent of small businesses that make that kind of scratch anyway. You're better off being afraid of spiders, there a bigger threat to you than this tax plan.

Can someone bring Beachman up to date on current events? As in "The USA has voted a true mandate to Obama specifically and the Democratic Party in general. A landslide in the Electoral College. A fat 6.5% margin in popular vote. At least 6 more Democratic Senators, bring the spread to 57-40 with three races still to be decided. At least another 19 House seats, bringing the spread to 254-173 with 8 left to be decided."

That's a real mandate, not the slim margins dipshit Bush claimed gave him a mandate. This election was a serious Democratic beatdown of Republicans. BUT YOU'RE STILL POSTING DRIVEL ON HERE AS IF MCCAIN IS GOING TO WIN.

Wake up, you and morons like you have had your asses handed to you this week, and it will be two years until you even get a chance to play again. Suck it up, go turn on Faux News and read the conservative blogs, jack off to pics of Sarah Palin (or John McCain), and we'll see you sometime in the fall of 2010.

(Message edited by catocony on November 06, 2008)

I want to be the first to denounce the "unconfirmed" reports that McCain dissed Palin in extreme terms when asked what young women who admired her could do to be more like the up-and-coming political leader.

I do not think that John is above making comments like that. But I just cannot believe he is creative enough to come up with a line like that.

So, you heard it here first. I don't think he said it and, no, I certainly did not vote for him.

Cat, it is nice to see the humble side of you in victory.

BTW, the down market in the last couple of days has nothing to do with Obama. The market priced in an Obama win months ago. Although any adjustment up or down would not be noticeable given everything else in the market.

Damn, Tjuncle, who is leaking my personal notes to you? I gotta get that lock on my desk drawer repaired.

Keen insight on what is going on,Tjuncle. Brilliant. Thanks for stealing my thunder. Asshole.
Tjuncle's observations outreach mine in depth, clarity and detail.(Tips hat in respect) I might nip him just a bit on the emotion angle, however.

Have several days, decorate them to meet your expectations.

Tjuncle,

I thought it was the "Contract on America?" This was the plan that Reagan's director of OMB, David Stockman, admitted was a total scam. They knew the numbers didn't add up and that they were going to fuck the economy and run up huge deficits, which they did.

IAS,

"I imagine the typical Republican social event involves gay sex while sipping Kool-Aid®."

"I see you have been to one of our secret underground hootenanny's."

Nope, just saw the Youtube video of these events, sent to me by Beachman.

IAS; Are you talking about Buck Knives when you talk about a "specific well known national company"?

They moved from just outside San Diego, to Post Falls Idaho. The state of Idaho created special tax incentives to draw companies to their state. http://www.expansionmanagement.com/cmd/articledetail/articleid/16570/default.asp

While this will lower the overhead and cost of manufacturing, if you ask me the quality of life in San Diego is a hell of a lot better than that in Post Falls Idaho.

RG.

RG. If I'm following you correctly..... you are arguing that, the only reason Idaho was successfully able to take jobs away from California and create jobs locally was because they 'cheated' by offering lower taxes to companies as an incentive to those that create good paying jobs. Why that hardly sounds fair.

Lets hope the Chinese never try to 'cheat' the same way on a national level when the rest of America adopts the California model of penalizing businesses.

In Post Hole, er, Falls Idaho, you can pay probably less than half of what you can pay in San Diego for the same type of job. It's the overall cost of living, and taxes are a small part of that.

Bwana_dik, Our sacred rituals at our underground Republican parties are well protected secrets. As I'm sure you are aware the Youtube video is a forgery. There in no plausible way you could know about all the gay sex while sipping Kool-Aid® that goes on at these events without actually having attended one of our Republican parties. I should think this would make you suspect amongst your Democratic friends.

Obama is really bringing change.....chief of staff pick on the board of Freddie Mac!


http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=6201900&page=1


http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jeff-poor/2008/11/06/emanuel-freddie-mac-connection-will-media-report-it

Uh oh, that's horrible, he was on the board of an organization 7 years ago that is in trouble now. Maybe the government should take over that organization. Oh yeah, already did.

Beachman, you may want to pace yourself, you have at least four years to breathe fire with every Obama move. Eat more roughage in the meantime.

Leechman,

I heard a rumor that Obama has two black kids! And that Michelle Obama was once an active thespian. Spread the word! God help the Republic!!!!

He also has already appointed two persons of middle eastern heritage to his staff. And they were known close associates of his during the campaign.

That should also be worthy of Leechman's concern.

(Message edited by LAguy on November 07, 2008)

And a new Lebanese Senator who you know is just itching to blow up a bomb.

Azguy,

You are correct that 28 years of NEO-GOP policy and the destruction that it has done to our nation has caused bitterness and contempt for shills from the greed wing of that movement. I can lighten up as soon as Bu$h and Cheney are rendered harmless. IAS may be a good guy as Bwana contends, but his attempt to drop the Bu$h train wreck on Obama's back cannot go unchallenged. Beachworm is either a fool or a paid operative pretending to be a monger from another era.

Ronald Reagan, whom the clueless still regard as a saint, turned American politics into a hate fest where god, guns, gays, abortion, labor unions, civil liberties and Islam are twisted into wedge issues to coerce fools into voting against thier own best interest. While the people were distracted, these crooks robbed our country blind, sent our jobs to china, made us dependent upon OPEC energy and allowed a massive trade deficit to fester.

We had a brief respite while Clinton was in office and our country did pretty good until Bu$h took over, doubled the national debt and resumed a war that his daddy never finished.

Now that Obama is bringing a new vision to our country, we can learn to be happy again and tax policy can begin to get some money back from the crooks that have ripped off the middle class. Bring back the estate tax for anybody whose legacy exceeds $10 million. Triple the tax on athletes and corporate CEOs whose compensation package exceeds $5 million per year.

Trickle down never worked, but new jobs to improve our national infrastructure will return money to the middle class through small business. We really need high speed rail to lessen the burden on airports, but that will not happen without a major government initiative.

The cost of our national health system need to be shared equally via a man-hour tax so Walmart contributes as much as General Electric does. Insurance companies cannot be allowed to continue discrimination by denial or excessive premiums.

Especially important to those of us who like to visit exotic places and fuck exotic girls it that the entire U. S. Justice department will be flushed down the toilet along with thier monger profiles.

(Message edited by Hot4ass2 on November 07, 2008)

(Message edited by Hot4ass2 on November 07, 2008)

Hot4ass, just read your post, and you are criticizing Beachman? That is some scary shit. Why is it I picture you typing away on your computer with aluminum foil on your head?

BTW, I guess if I relied on the government to be the deciding factor if I was happy or not, I would be a fucking mess too. Good luck

Azguy,

Aluminum foil does not provide adequate shielding. I recommend several overlapping layers of that gray metalic film that you find inside microwave popcorn packages. It is designed to reflect most of the radiation from CIA mind probes and convert absorbed radiation from NSA mind probes into heat.

For your sake, I am glad that the TheoCon / McCain / Palin U. S. Justice Department will not have the opportunity to continue developing YOUR EVIL SEX TOURIST prosecution profile. Just stay in LOS for another 90 days and you should be fine.

(Message edited by Hot4ass2 on November 08, 2008)

(Message edited by Hot4ass2 on November 08, 2008)

(Message edited by Hot4ass2 on November 08, 2008)

(Message edited by Hot4ass2 on November 08, 2008)

Good one Cat!

After all the work many of us did on this board convincing others to vote for Obama, I am now sorely disappointed the application for employment in his administration "asks applicants to 'please list all aliases or ‘handles’ you have used to communicate on the Internet.'"

I don't know whether to maintain that posts on ClubHombre do not represent "communication," at least not in the traditional sense of the word (evidence: Beachman's incomprehensible posts) or whether I should just lie and feign ignorance of this LAguy thing (Question: IAS, can you keep a secret?).

I suspect the bottom line though is my hope to become Obama's Secretary of State has been dashed.

I'll never tell. But of course it is not really in my hands. Since you posted all this stuff during the Bush Administration, the NSA already has a ten thousand page dossier on you, and rather than risking letting it fall into enemy hands they will have turned it over to the RNC prior to Jan 20. It is likely it would be anonymously leaked to the public if you received an important appointment.

If you ever ran for public office I'd guess your opponent could probably run some of the best attack ads ever. I don't like it either but that's just the way it is.

Sorry for the late reply

I vote issues not party
I once was a registered Democrat until the party went way left with the bullshit Politically correct crap etc.
I did not necessarily want McCain as the Republican party nominee

I was Obama over Clinton

but am anti Obama as President but do want to say

Congratulations to Barack Hussien Obama for his purchase of the white house!

Millions of uninformed people voted for him because they really believe he will change things for them and then millions voted based on racial pride. I thank that group as they helped pass Prop 8 in CA. So thanks Obama for that.

Sadly there are going to be millions of shocked voters when the real Obama is exposed. Yes two years of Hell, a ton of promises not kept and the Republicans regain Congress in two years.

Yep we are seeing a ton of change already
with Obama appointing a bunch of Clinton retreads

Text

It is interesting that those who are incapable of spelling correctly Obama's middle name seem to be the most inclined to persecute him because of it.

Maximus is the Opus Dei representative on ClubHombre. I find it shocking that he doesn't support Obama.

Opus Dei. Isn't that the organization that requires its members deny themselves the pleasures of the flesh by limiting their mongering to Tijuana?

Actually
La Expert,
I did not spell it correctly on purpose as I had to give you something to criticize.

Cat,
Sorry I cannot be a Opus Dei rep as they support single life whereas I will get married soon in the next year to a year and a half.

Cat,
I cannot support the most radical anti pro life president ever. The New Hitler.

Well, at least we drew the guy out sufficiently to show all he is a complete crackpot.

By the way, I just posted a new poll that was motivated by something I read above.

I was going vote Pro-Life just to be obnoxious and contrarian but to be perfectly honest I have paid for several abortions over the years and even facilitated making a taxpayer subsidized MediCal abortion take place back in the late 80's when said lady in question and I were both very poor. Praise Allah that MediCal pays for abortions. (or at least I presume they still do. They did back in the late 80's)

OTOH, as a big fan of sleazy political attack ads on all sides, with extra credit going to the sleaziest. I was particularly amused by the teen aged girl/back alley abortionist ads running this election season for whatever prop. that was. I would like to nominate the actor who played the back alley abortionist for an Emmey.

IAS doing something just to be obnoxious and contrarian? Tell me it ain't so Joe.

And just so no one gets confused, IAS's handle has as of now been changed to Hitler.

(Message edited by LAguy on November 14, 2008)

I said "I was going to" but actually I behaved myself. Well actually I didn't even vote in that survey. But I'll be nice now and go vote Pro Choice. In fact I will even lobby my buddies down at the RNC to keep abortions legal and state funded. I've been giving LAGuy a hard time for to long now. Maybe it's time I should go find a nice Christian web board to philosophize my opinions about abortion.

And as long as we are now in a period of good feelings let me offer my own apology to IAS.

It was bad form for me to say to him "Tell me it ain't so Joe" without first asking him "Is it okay if I call you Joe." I'll try in the future to more faithfully follow the Sarah Palin book of debate etiquette.

(Message edited by LAguy on November 14, 2008)

Also, thank you IAS for your vote. The present tally in the poll is six Hitlers to nothing.

You would think Obama would want to set a good example and fill out an application he is requiring anyone who wants a job in his administration wants. Oh....thats right.....he would have to resign even before taking office. His association with Bill Ayers would disqualify him.


He wants to you to turn over copies of personal diaries......why is not the ACLU outraged and suing!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/us/politics/13apply.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

I hate when intellectual heavyweights like Beachman and Maximus743 gang up on my political beliefs. It humbles me.

On perhaps a more informative note, the poll presently is running seven Hitlers to one Jesus, with two purgatory dwellers. We'll continue to provide updates as things evolve. If you haven't voted yet, please do.

(Message edited by LAguy on November 15, 2008)

Jeez. Those Christians are mean. I signed up over at http://www.prolifeamerica.com to engage in a little legitimate discourse from a Pro-Choice Republican view point. I was polite, on topic and used clean language and intelligent arguments. Those folks got way more riled than LAGuy ever gets. Within 4 hours of my first post I am permanently banned and the threads I participated in were completely deleted. They are no fun at all.

I tallied it up. If you figure that in California, a live baby with a deadbeat mommy ends up costing daddy $250K or more in child support over 18 years...... Then 4 abortions that cost me out of pocket less than $1k total saved me somewhere around a Million Dollars or more.

Quite sobering if I think about it.

IAS:

With the savings from just a few more abortions, you could have funded the entire economic recovery package single-handedly.

Keep up the good work.

Apparently Beachman was the last one to get the memo, and just in case you haven't heard Obama is nether a Muslim or Socialist and he's not going to confiscate anyone's gun. The real Boogieman is leaving January 20th 2009

Ayers says 'secret link' with Obama is a 'myth'

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/14/ayers.interview/?iref=mpstoryview

Ayers appears on 'Good Morning America'; denies close relationship with Obama

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1281359,bill-ayers-obama-good-morning-america-111508.article

La expert(non)
I don't gang up on anyone or their political beliefs unlike the rest of you guys
I protect mine. Also if the other side of the coin is not presented there is no discussion then what would you do or who would attack, criticize or name call?
Crackpot?
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Might want to take another look around.

Thank you Maximus for providing today's entertainment.

De Nada

I've been giving some thought to Maximus's posts here and perhaps he is correct we haven't always welcomed both sides of the argument when it comes to certain political issues. In this regard, those of us who post here may be too much like the mainsteam media.

For example, I haven't seen any point counterpoints on CNN as to whether Obama is the "new Hitler," as Maximus contends. And not only that, where is the reporting on both sides of the "is Harry Reid the new Eichmann" debate? Or on the question "is Nancy Pelosi really Joseph Goebbels in a dress?" I'm sure Maximus is anxious to make arguments supporting each of these propositions.

So Maximus, keep on posting. We promise to give your views the respect they deserve.

So what is everyone's take on all the bail outs? I could be wrong here but it seems like it doesnt cut 100% down party lines.

What a fucking mess, lets see...who is next - casino industry, hospitality, this list could go on forever.

I think the one that gets me the most is the auto industry. Oh, now they want to retool and build competitive fuel efficient autos?

BTW,now that oil is down (for now) lets see if everyone forgets about that one.

Interesting watching Obama. He will either be the best president we have ever had or the worst, well, second worst. Hope he pulls it out. AZ

LaGuy

I appreciate the opportunity yet I must go right now as the Sylmar fire is dangerously close to my girlfriend's condo off the 14 in Newhall.

Talk next week
Don't miss me too much

LA, I would try to make the case that Pelosi is Goebbels because there is a striking resemblance, but she would be much older if it were true.

PS not that I would fuck her, but it looks like Pelosi does have a pretty good sized rack.

AZguy:

I'm glad you wouldn't fuck Pelosi (unlike Catocony I might add) because given her striking resemblance to Goebbels that would make you gay (forgetting about her good-sized rack for the time being).

Personally, I would rather fuck Palin, but only if she would do ass to mouth.

Incidentally, when I apply for a position in the Obama administration, am I going to have to provide them with all of these posts pursuant to their questionaire about internet postings and so forth? And if I do, do you think they will appreciate the cogent arguments I have made in favor of the Democrats? I'm hoping my record of pro-Democratic posts will advance my case.

(Message edited by LAguy on November 15, 2008)

I would fuck Palin too, as long as she wouldnt talk.

I thought it would be interesting to start a running list of who we would fuck, but I think Palin is about it. Politics is pretty short on fuckable women. Oh, wait they are gringas, I forgot. Nevermind.

Oh, ok, maybe, fuck, I cant recall her name. The tall thin blonde right winger chick that is really loud and obnoxious. I would fuck her in the ass. That could be fun. Can someone help me with a name here?

Ann Coulter, though I find her to be a real dick shriveler

I do believe that Ann Coulter is a tranny.

Cato, could there be any doubt? Coulter has an adams apple the size of a baseball, large hands and she speaks with less femininity than Sean Hannity. I would not touch her privates with a borrowed, vaccinated crowbar.

Perhaps I don't have the high standards Blissman does. Bliss, can you recommend a place where I get a borrowed crowbar vaccinated?

As it turns out, less than 30 percent of the U.S. population over 25 years old have a Bachelor's degree (as of 2006). Out of curiosity I worked some numbers and found Obama did substantially better in those states (and DC) that had a greater percentage of persons with undergraduate degrees.

Here is a rank ordering of the 50 states and the District of Columbia in terms of the percentage of adults over 25 years old who have Bachelor's degrees, along with whether each voted for Obama or McCain (unfortunately, what is posted lost its formatting, so the columns do not line up).

1 Dist. of Columbia 45.9 Obama
2 Massachusetts 37.0 Obama
3 Maryland 35.1 Obama
4 Colorado 34.3 Obama
5 Connecticut 33.7 Obama
6 New Jersey 33.4 Obama
7 Virginia 32.7 Obama
8 Vermont 32.4 Obama
9 New Hampshire 31.9 Obama
10 New York 31.2 Obama
11 Washington 30.5 Obama
12 Minnesota 30.4 Obama
13 Hawaii 29.7 Obama
14 Rhode Island 29.6 Obama
15 California 29.0 Obama
16 Illinois 28.9 Obama
17 Kansas 28.6 McCain
17 Utah 28.6 McCain
19 Oregon 27.5 Obama
20 Montana 27.4 McCain
21 Delaware 27.0 Obama
22 Alaska 26.9 McCain
22 Nebraska 26.9 McCain
24 Georgia 26.6 McCain
25 Maine 25.8 Obama
26 North Dakota 25.6 McCain
27 Arizona 25.5 McCain
28 Pennsylvania 25.4 Obama
29 Florida 25.3 Obama
29 New Mexico 25.3 Obama
31 Wisconsin 25.1 Obama
32 North Carolina 24.8 Obama
32 South Dakota 24.8 McCain
34 Texas 24.7 McCain
35 Michigan 24.5 Obama
36 Missouri 24.3 McCain
37 Iowa 24.0 Obama
38 Idaho 23.3 McCain
39 Ohio 23.0 Obama
40 South Carolina 22.7 McCain
40 Wyoming 22.7 McCain
42 Oklahoma 22.1 McCain
43 Indiana 21.7 Obama
43 Tennessee 21.7 McCain
45 Alabama 21.1 McCain
46 Nevada 20.8 Obama
47 Louisiana 20.3 McCain
48 Kentucky 20.0 McCain
49 Mississippi 18.8 McCain
50 Arkansas 18.2 McCain
51 West Virginia 16.5 McCain

Those who come from states towards the bottom of the list should know I have already outfitted myself with body armor to protect against the coming onslaught.

Well if MISTER Smarty Pants LA Dude was smart enough to just RTFM...

Rank	State	Percent Smart Folk	Vote Winner
1	Dist. of Columbia	45.9	Obama
2	Massachusetts	37.0	Obama
3	Maryland	35.1	Obama
4	Colorado	34.3	Obama
5	Connecticut	33.7	Obama
6	New Jersey	33.4	Obama
7	Virginia	32.7	Obama
8	Vermont	32.4	Obama
9	New Hampshire	31.9	Obama
10	New York	31.2	Obama
11	Washington	30.5	Obama
12	Minnesota	30.4	Obama
13	Hawaii	29.7	Obama
14	Rhode Island	29.6	Obama
15	California	29.0	Obama
16	Illinois	28.9	Obama
17	Kansas	28.6	McCain
17	Utah	28.6	McCain
19	Oregon	27.5	Obama
20	Montana	27.4	McCain
21	Delaware	27.0	Obama
22	Alaska	26.9	McCain
22	Nebraska	26.9	McCain
24	Georgia	26.6	McCain
25	Maine	25.8	Obama
26	North Dakota	25.6	McCain
27	Arizona	25.5	McCain
28	Pennsylvania	25.4	Obama
29	Florida	25.3	Obama
29	New Mexico	25.3	Obama
31	Wisconsin	25.1	Obama
32	North Carolina	24.8	Obama
32	South Dakota	24.8	McCain
34	Texas	24.7	McCain
35	Michigan	24.5	Obama
36	Missouri	24.3	McCain
37	Iowa	24.0	Obama
38	Idaho	23.3	McCain
39	Ohio	23.0	Obama
40	South Carolina	22.7	McCain
40	Wyoming	22.7	McCain
42	Oklahoma	22.1	McCain
43	Indiana	21.7	Obama
43	Tennessee	21.7	McCain
45	Alabama	21.1	McCain
46	Nevada	20.8	Obama
47	Louisiana	20.3	McCain
48	Kentucky	20.0	McCain
49	Mississippi	18.8	McCain
50	Arkansas	18.2	McCain
51	West Virginia	16.5	McCain

And I... uhm... don't have a Bachelors Degree

Smitopher,
One little known secret is colleges and universities teach their students how to get other people to do their work. Thanks for your help.

On a related note, I am having a problem finding relevant data for my next election analysis. Does anyone know where I can find data on inbreeding rates in the various states?

(Message edited by LAguy on November 17, 2008)

Just Say No to Detroit
Given the abysmal performance by Detroit's Big Three, it would be better to send each employee a check than to waste it on a bailout, says David Yermack.

* Michael Moore became famous for documentaries like "Fahrenheit 9/11" and "Sicko," his first big success came in 1989 with "Roger and Me." In that film, Mr. Moore followed General Motors chairman and chief executive Roger Smith with a camera crew, asking him why the company was closing plants and producing low-quality vehicles. Mr. Smith looked flustered and inartfully avoided Mr. Moore's camera crew while it lingered outside his country club or GM's executive offices.

"Roger and Me" was entertaining, but it missed the real story about Roger Smith, who turned out to be a forward-thinking genius. Mr. Smith made big investments in information technology and satellite communications, acquiring Electronic Data Systems in 1984 for $2.5 billion and Hughes Aircraft in 1985 for $5.2 billion. Mr. Smith's successors divested those businesses at huge profits -- EDS was taken public in 1996 for more than $27 billion, and Hughes, renamed DirecTV, went public in 2003 for more than $23 billion. (The man who sold EDS to Roger Smith at a bargain price was H. Ross Perot, who then convinced many people that the experience qualified him to be president.)

Mr. Smith understood all too well that GM shouldn't continue investing in its failing automobile business. That was 25 years ago. Today, our government is being asked to put tens of billions of dollars in GM, Ford and Chrysler, but we would be much better off if Washington allowed these companies to go bankrupt and disappear.

In 1993, the legendary economist Michael Jensen gave his presidential address to the American Finance Association. Mr. Jensen's presentation included a ranking of which U.S. companies had made the most money-losing investments during the decade of the 1980s. The top two companies on his list were General Motors and Ford, which between them had destroyed $110 billion in capital between 1980 and 1990, according to Mr. Jensen's calculations.
Skidding Auto Makers



See what Ford, GM have been up to in recent years as their stock price and sales declined.

I was a student in Mr. Jensen's business-school class around that time, and one day he put those rankings on the board and shouted "J'accuse!" He wanted his students to understand that when a company makes money-losing investments, the cost falls upon all of society. Investment capital represents our limited stock of national savings, and when companies spend it badly, our future well-being is compromised. Mr. Jensen made his presentation more than 15 years ago, and even then it seemed obvious that the right strategy for GM would be to exit the car business, because many other companies made better vehicles at lower cost.

Roger Smith, who retired as chairman in 1990, seemed to understand that all too well, and so did Chrysler's management, which happily sold their company to Daimler Benz for $30.5 billion in 1998. That deal, one of the savviest corporate divestitures ever, ended very badly for Daimler, which essentially paid Cerberus a few billion dollars (by agreeing to retain pension liabilities) to take Chrysler off its hands in 2007.

Over the past decade, the capital destruction by GM has been breathtaking, on a greater scale than documented by Mr. Jensen for the 1980s. GM has invested $310 billion in its business between 1998 and 2007. The total depreciation of GM's physical plant during this period was $128 billion, meaning that a net $182 billion of society's capital has been pumped into GM over the past decade -- a waste of about $1.5 billion per month of national savings. The story at Ford has not been as adverse but is still disheartening, as Ford has invested $155 billion and consumed $8 billion net of depreciation since 1998.

As a society, we have very little to show for this $465 billion. At the end of 1998, GM's market capitalization was $46 billion and Ford's was $71 billion. Today both firms have negligible value, with share prices in the low single digits. Both are facing imminent bankruptcy and delisting from the major stock exchanges. Along with management, the companies' unions and even their regulators in Washington may have their own culpability, a topic that merits its own separate discussion. Yet one can only imagine how the $465 billion could have been used better -- for instance, GM and Ford could have closed their own facilities and acquired all of the shares of Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Volkswagen.
[all things autos group]
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The implications of this story for Washington policy makers are obvious. Investing in the major auto companies today would be throwing good money after bad. Many are suggesting that $25 billion of public money be immediately injected into the auto business in order to buy time for an even larger bailout to be organized. We would do better to set this money on fire rather than using it to keep these dying firms on life support, setting them up for even more money-losing investments in the future.

Two main arguments are being raised to justify a government rescue of the auto industry. First, large numbers of jobs may be at stake, perhaps as many as three million if one counts all the other firms that supply the Big Three. This greatly overstates the situation. Americans are not going to stop driving cars, and if GM, Ford and Chrysler disappear, other companies will expand to soak up their market share, adding jobs in the process. Many suppliers will also stay in business to satisfy the residual demand for spare parts even if the Detroit manufacturers go under. If the government wants to spend $25 billion to protect auto workers, it would do better to transfer the money to them directly (perhaps by cutting each worker a check for $10,000) rather than by keeping their unproductive employer in business.

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On the Auto-Industry Bailout
Associated Press

Unsold 2008 Denalis at a GMC truck dealership.
On the Auto-Industry Bailout
On the Auto-Industry Bailout

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