Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive 01	50		2003/06/29, 05:52 pm
	Archive 02	50		2003/07/28, 01:48 pm
	Archive 03	50		2003/09/29, 09:59 pm

Yeah there's a lotta calories in a rasher of bacon and a porterhouse every night!

I have cut my breakfast routine

Let me know what you guys think

I was eating eggs and Bacon/sausage 5 or 6 days a weak but now i have 2 shakes and 2 atkin breakfast bars a week with 3 days of eggs and bacon to round off the week.

I am pretty sad with my weight loss to date. But I guess everyone is different. So far 11 pounds shit my big toe weighs that much

I am hoping to lose another 5 pounds by the 30th !!

take care
guys
Milksoy

Milko,

Try the Low Carb Bread they sell at trader joes with your macho breakfast, only 4 grms of carb per slice, y te quita la malilla!,
they also have low carb tortillas for you taco lovers.

Masterater

Milk, if you're serious about losing that weight fast, you'd better start recording your daily intake and output using something like www.fitday.com. That way you can track your carbs. Remember, you have to keep 'em under 20g/day! I'll bet you're picking up extra carbs somewhere along the way (and stay away from ANY kind of bread, low carb or not).

I agree with Wombat about the bread. Remember bread is evil. And nutritional info on packaging can be misleading. For example, many products on the market claim to be zero or low-carb but contain a sweetener called glycerin. The glycerin is common in many protein bars--check the package. Well glycerin isnt technically a carb so it doesnt get listed as a carb...but your body thinks it is. So essentially if you eat one your getting 25 grams of carbs.

Hi

No Bread whatsoever but last night I smelled some of sampsons Desserts not sure if that is cheating or not

I am sticking to under 20 grams of carbs and my piss strips are in the 40 to 50 range so i am keeping to the diet.

I have faith just takes some thyme !!

thanks guys
Milky

I don't know sampsons Desserts, but I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that there's sugar in 'em. Sugar is pure carb and has a nasty side effect -- it throws your body into "store some fat for later" mode. Last weekend I finally gave in to one of my great weaknesses* and ate icecream, too much ice cream. I gained 4lbs. I've dropped two of those pounds already, but it's a slow climb back down.

*You know, if I'm ever captured by enemy forces, all they need do is offer me a big bowl of Ben & Jerry's "Cookies 'n' Cream" and I'll sing like a canary.

I am strict Atkins but suddenly started gaining fat around my middle. I'm so stressed about this shit I'm starting to act like a CHICK dammit! But I can tell, the midsection is a little softer than it was a few days ago.

I haven't gone off the Atkins / ketogenic wagon, don't know what's up there. I have been quite active and have been eating almost zero carbs -- the only carbs are the "trace" ones that show up in meats, for example. I'll eat eggs, sausage, fish, chicken breasts, celery, cream cheese, and zero-carb bars, basically that's it. My exercise consists of hard hot yard work (August in Florida) or nothing (rest days) or, if it's been 2 days of "rest" (aka laziness) I'll go for a jog or lift weights.

This routine netted me results for a while. But now I've hit some kind of wall. I guess I gotta go get them piss strips ...

I got a question for the Atkins crowd. Alot of the low carb sweet products have sugar alcohols, which apparently do not have much of an effect on blood sugar levels. I have seen a few low carb sweet products advertise that they do NOT contain sugar alcohols. Aside from a laxative effect if too much is consumed, are there other reasons to be concerned about ingesting sugar alcohols?

Also, in response to a few reports of hitting a wall with Atkins, I will add my experiences. I lost perhaps 12 pounds the first couple months on Atkins (my ideal goal was only about 15 to 20 pounds, so I was relatively pleased), and have stayed close to, but not precisely on, an induction diet ever since (e.g., I will drink some scotch every other day or so, and have some berries occassionally, but no breads, pasta, or any of the high carb things). Recently, after following this routine for about six months I gained back a couple of pounds, which isn't too bad but I should have still been losing I would have thought. Haven't been doing much rigorous exercise though. My experience seems to confirm that at least for some weight loss doesn't always proceed easily on Atkins after the first burst.

wombatt 88---i'm pretty sure their was sugar in my desserts.

Guys, Sugar Alcohols should be considered carbohydrates. Even though the labels dont count it as carbs. Avoid them. They will cause a rise in blood sugars and subsequently in insulin levels and cause you to store fat.

Nearly every Atkins bar has sugar alcohols, and all the "candy" version of Atkins things have sugar alcohols. Is he contradicting himself?

I am sure Adkins labs have an explanation for it, but Adkins bars taste awful lets face it... get some good protein powder if you need a snack. I like Optimum Nutritions Complete Protein Diet. I mix it with water to the consistency of pudding. www.netrition.com carries it and a lot of other great items.

NEWS RELEASE - HOPE THE STUDY IN ENGLAD IS WRONG.

If a medical group has its way, the top 10 U.S. hospitals will ban the Atkins Diet.


Nutritionists with the nonprofit group Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine hopes the institutions will follow the lead of England's Norfolk and Norwich Hospital, which recently announced that it would ban the controversial diet from its menus. British hospital officials said they fear the diet, which was condemned by the government-funded Medical Research Council last week because of its link to kidney damage, is not safe for its patients.

PCRM said in a news release Friday that it would encourage a similar policy in letters next week to Johns Hopkins Hospital (Baltimore); the Mayo Clinic (Rochester, Minn.); UCLA Medical Center (Los Angeles); Massachusetts General Hospital (Boston); Cleveland Clinic; Duke University Medical Center (Durham, N.C.); the University of California, San Francisco Medical Center; Barnes-Jewish Hospital (St. Louis); the University of Michigan Medical Center (Ann Arbor); and the University of Washington Medical Center (Seattle).

"U.S. hospitals would be wise to emulate Britain's Norfolk and Norwich Hospital and protect their patients from the dangerous Atkins Diet," PCRM nutrition director Amy Joy Lanou, Ph.D., said. "Hospitals that serve meat-heavy, fatty foods might be good at keeping their beds filled, but they're doing little to improve patient health. Research has clearly shown that high-protein, meat-heavy diets increase the risk of osteoporosis and kidney disorders and that low-fat vegetarian diets help prevent heart disease, diabetes, some cancers and other health problems."

PCRM recently ran a full-page ad warning of the dangers of the Atkins Diet in U.S. News & World Report's "Best Hospitals" issue.

It is bad for kidneys, if you have weak kidneys. I'd just be worried if the hospitals banned "ketogenesis" as a principle. You can get decent meats that don't threaten your kidneys, ya know ... just more of the medical establishment insisting on their 1953 textbook! How many doctors do you know who are as ripped and built as a fitness model, or who can finish a marathon? Not many MDs fit those criteria. I listen to the fitness models and the marathoners.

By the way, my plateau is still plateau-ing. Help ... ?

Book guy, what are the Ketostix telling you? Are you in ketosis? Are you recording your progress, your intake and output? What are your daily numbers (protein, carbs, calories consumed and burned)? Are you drinking a LOT of water?

I prefer to drink scotch. That way the problems concentrate themselves in my liver.

Seriously, I haven't gotten ketosticks yet, all the drugstores around here have odd hours on the weekends. It's on my to-do list, honest. I write down my meals and exercise, but just a note or two, nothing too specific. What's up with all the interest?

I'm finding, actually, that my worry was partly unfounded. The scales indicate I'm still losing or remaining steady, although my subjective perception is that my skin has thickened up. Perhaps it was some kind of water retention, a heat reaction, the time of day I checked it, or maybe it's getting "looser" because of the loss of fat. Another few weeks of more specific recording should make things more clear.

I like prescription narcotics mixed with alcohol.

When used this way you can drink alot less and the narcotics have zero carbs, calories or protein for that matter.

Think about it.

CAUTION: do not take YOUR prescription narcotics with alcohol without consulting with a medical doctor first to see what conbinations they like best and are relatively safe.

Beleive me they are expert in this field.

Innocent

Who is taking prescription drugs with Alcohol ?

Who isn't? I thought everybody was...

only you

I take them but only rectally

Have you tried morphine suppositories? They're very popular in Hillcrest...LOL

Hey guys

Well I have just lost 20 pounds !
Please send congratulation cards and money to Hombre and he will foward them to me.

I was at 175 3 months ago. After getting off the Atkins twice just for a short period each time and then getting back on it I managed to still lose or maintain my weight after going on small eating binges.

My goal is to lose 10 more pounds and thats it. Maybe 15 if push comes to shoving

I am going to Mexicali in 4 1/2 weeks and if I can lose the 10 by then i will be very very happy

thanks for all your help
MilkSlim

Milkflaco,

The girls here in Mexicali are already going crazy when I told them Milkman was coming.
Now, with this , it complete KAOS! Girls Gone Wild in the Streets of Mexicali!!

We are just going to make a killing down here .......

MA

Way to go Milk baby! If you want to drop ten more in a month, here's what ya gotta do. First, no carbs (well, keep to less than 20mg/day). Second, no cheating. Third, aerobic exercise 20min/day. Fourth, lots of water. Good luck!

Hey All. I lost 23 pounds with 3 to go. Love that low-carb eating. Try www.lowcarbeating.com for some great replacement recipes. My favorite is the fried chicken recipe that uses crushed pork rhinds instead of bread crumbs.

lowcarbeating.com, eh? Isn't that the site where SUV owners smack the crap out of little sports cars and low riders?

ROFL I thought the same thing when I first saw the URL. I'll bet some of my cow orkers did as well.

The Atkins people bought it from the low-rider community. The domain went where the money is.

Milky Atkins xxsperriment

Last night I had a 10 pack of Kuntucky fried Chickens buffalo crispy wings - plain
i had them with ranch dressing and they were breaded.

This morning my piss strips registered at an 70 for Ketosis.

I have been keeping my carb count between 10 to 20 a day but yesterday those wings must have been at least 20 carbs themselves and the diet is still blazing.

I know that when i normally blow my diet is at the very latest the piss strips will read zero by the morning or within a half day.

i am up to 100 to 120 situps a day now and will kick it up by 20 a week.

I am still at 154 but can feel my body changing much like a girl on her first menstruation.

My stomach is stronger and is no longer a big bowl of jelly. my dress pants now fit like they used to a few years ago.

I moved here weighing 145 and i plan to be that in a month or two

take care
milktuffy

Interesting experiment about the piss strips. I'd like to hear other people's comments about that -- in Florida, evidently, they aren't available over-the-counter, and the Rx brand is WAY too expensive to merit the cost, for me at least.

I once did an experiment with a heart-rate monitor and differing levels of fat in my diet, when I was working out hard and in top form. I found that my ideal fuel was a little higher in cholesterol than the typical recommended at the time -- heart beat less, responded to stress better, for same degree of time-versus-distance performance, etc.

I'd like to corroborate all my HRM and piss-strip info, really fine tune my living. But then, I look at a hot chickie on the computer and decide to go out and drink scotch and monger a bit, instead. I'll let you know how it goes.

Bookguy

I have been buying mine for arond 6 fucks a bottle. 1 bottle contians about 100 strips.

they also sell them at GNC type places.

I can send you some if you want ?

Also pulled out a custom outfit I bought nearly 3 years ago. I had it tailored to my specifications and put it on about 6 months ago and the pants wouldn't fit at all. Now they fit just right, slightly snug but comfy !
I still need to lose 8 pounds to where I Was at when I got them.

The no carb sauces taste gweat too !!!
Zero carbs !!!

I have very little bad soda now. There is a diet Hansens going on here. Its tuff to find Diet Ginger ale but finally found some after looking for about 5 weeks !!!

Once in a while I will have diet caffiene free coke but mostly its Hansens. One loser at Henrys Marketplace told me as soon as they get a bunch of the diet cans in people buy cases of them and the ginger ale is always first to go

Finally found some cheap real Ketostix -- pharmacist's assistant said there's something about a Florida state law against self-diagnosis that prevents them from selling them legally if you admit you want them for self-administered dieting. They were about $12 for a bottle of 50 and I had to "promise" (wink wink) to give them to my diabetic grandfather for his use only.

So far they're negative -- the ugly yellow ochre color. I didn't expect otherwise, since I've been off the no-carb bandwagon for a few weeks. Not sure if I'll go back on it or not.

But -- correct me if I'm wrong -- I should be ketogenic, and therefore get positive (if not high, at least light blue?) readings whenever I'm losing weight, right? Even if it's while also eating carbs, if I'm exercising sufficiently to be losing, then I'm ketogenic, right? Right?

I can't figger it all out ...

Hi Bookguy

If i am not mistaken they are universally white for negative and brown for ketosis are you sure you got the write strips ?

By the way I had 2 pints of ice cream and have been off the diet for a week and got back on it just within a few days and I gained nothing from the 2 pints of ice cream and have maintained 154 pounds for a while now. I used the strips for the first time today and showed a medium brown color so i am in ketosis again.

i thought it took a week or so when you have consumed products in high sugar.

Not sure why I didnt gain anything but i feel great. Since the last 4 weeks i have been on and off the diet 3 times and have yet to gain although nothing lost.

i did gain 2 to 4 pounds each time when i went out to eat but lost it right away when i went back on the diet !

this is great. I will stay on it for at least another week or so to get below 150

take care
Milkguy

Book, losing weight does not mean you're in ketosis. Getting into ketosis may not mean you will lose weight. That being said, you need to get into ketosis and *stay* there.

I've been doing this damn diet, oops, that should be lifestyle, for quite a few months. I've lost about 10% of my body weight and gone down nearly two sizes. I'm nearly down to the same size I was when I finished university.

Here's something interesting

I last cheated at the beginning of the summer. I too often craved ice cream and chocolate and cakes are all sorts of other evils (simple sugars + simple carbs + fat). I'd gone cold turkey since then and lost a couple more pounds. The interesting bit is now the cravings have completely left me. The past couple of weeks, we've had several catered functions at the office, with plenty of tempting treats and I'm not in the least bit interested. In fact, I made it a point to take big sniffs of the chocolate pasteries, donuts, muffins, breads and other items, to no effect. I appreciated them, but did not desire them.

Last week I picked up a few bags of my very favorite sweet snacks (a highly addictive sugary concoction) intending to take them with me on my next trip in December. They're sitting right beside me and I haven't been the least bit tempted (and I'm the kinda guy who can eat two pints of chocolate chip icecream as a light snack). Strangely enough, I can't imagine even bringing those candies with me on my trip now.

I suspect that once my body has broken the carb habit, I no longer crave it. The down side, of course, is once I go off Atkins (which I must do in order to eat pineapples and mangosteens), it's going to be another struggle.

I am now at 152 and feeling very good. If I can load on carbs 3 to 4 days every 2 or so weeks and still lose around 4 to 5 pounds during those 2 weeks I will be the happiest camper this side of India.

i see my weight loss going down by about 1/2 pound a day since coming off my super carb intake which consisted of wots of Chinese food , pizza and 2 pints of ice cream and that took place for 4 days.

Before I was stuck around 155 and really couldnt get below that mark. When I went carbing I lost more after goping back on the diet.

Things I have cut out of my atkins diet is the powder shakes , sour cream and the chocolate bars. I am not saying these items hampered my wate loss but i am just not consuming those items any more.

One of my favorite items is pork choks soaked in hot sauce and having a side of boo cheese to dip it in - very very tasty

I still have the likwid atkins Coffee shakes in the AM about 4 times a week and the 3 other days I have eggs and bakin with coffee. I like the thick cut bacon and found a decent brand called Hoffy which is nice and decent.

Also found my dream Blew Cheeze brand. It is called Marie's Premium Blue cheese , they have 3 different blue cheeses and i have tried 2 so far. This one is tops of all that i have consumed.

I will be staying on the diet until tuesday then hitting TJ and maybe Ensenada and will be doing carbs for a few days and then going back on the diet.

My goal is around 145 and maybe i will push the issue and try 140 and then go off and will only go back on the diet when and if i hit around the 150 mark.

I feel great and feel tuffer
Milktuff

I too have noticed that, if I have been consistently on Atkins (or something similar) that a brief breach of protocol will not be difficult to overcome. Ya seem ta slip back into ketosis quickly -- perhaps even before using the next ketostick. But if the ketosis has been only mildly or recently induced, it's easier to slide farther off of it. So, the pints of ice cream would be a greater sin, the earlier in the regime that you eat them.

Yes, I have the "right" Ketostix. My brand has a little color chart on the side of the jar, ochre is negative, varying shades of blue to purple are positive.

Be careful with bacon (ahem, "bakin"), read the label to make sure it isn't sugar-cured or has starch, pectin, or glucosamines added as preservatives. I too love dippin' meats into "boo" cheese sauces, and although that tends to be low in carbohydrates, it can be high in overall calories none the less.

Finally, about ketogenesis versus weight-loss, and the idea that if you're losing, you should have ketones in your urine. I've looked into it (asked a friend who's a bio-chem grad student) and he says you might not be "in ketosis" if you're losing weight (so, correct) but you WILL have ketones in your bodily waste if you are losing weight (so, incorrect). The burning of fat, either by ketogenic diet or by exercise, leaves a by-product, ketones, in your bloodstream, which is then filtered by your kidneys and passed to your urine.

Weight-loss according to him is in one-to-one relation to ketones in urine (as you didn't say) but being in ketogenic state isn't the only way to weight loss (as you did say).

Hi guys!
remember this thread ?
How are you guys doing on the Atkins or whatever diet ?

I went off it for a few months for the holidays but I am back on it.

I recently went shopping for a home exercise unit and talked with many people including gym rats.
I axed them if they could buy a unit to tone the body and keep it under 300 fucks what would they buy? Most said the Total Gym so I went out and bought the Ultra version which is an upgrade to the 1500xl version. I have been doing a lot of Ab exercises on it and I feel great.

I wanna tone down to about 145 to 150 and only perhaps a month or 2 away from that goal.

There are so many new low carb products these days and stores that cater to low carb diets.

Here are my choices for low carb products

Atkins products- A little more expensive than the rest but their prices are coming down as they lose market share.

Carbolite- I have used some of their products and have been satisfied

Carbsolutions- I have tried a few of their new products and happy with the taste and cost.

Slimfast carb products- have tried the shakes and they taste good. You can find good deals when they go on sale.

There are others but these are ones that I have liked and will continue to use while I am on the Atkins.

By the way I have been eating ham instead of bacon and I am still in Keytosis even if the ham is sugar cured.If you look at many of the lowcarb store made products such as the candy bars and such many have sugar.

Any new recipes for success ?
take care
Milk

Any of you guys try the new carb low ice creams ?
Now Breyers makes a line of them with 4 to 5 carbs in each serving. Breyers is top shelf so i doubt they will put out a bad product. they even have carb low Klondick bars !!

Also watch out for some of this newly packaged fancy salad mixes some have a lot of added sugar and some maybe high in carbs. I saw one package that had 14 grams of carbs and 3 grams sugar!!
Just found a new dwessing called jalepeno ranch and it has just 1 carb per serving and is tasty !!!

my goal is to lose about 1/3 pound a day for the next 60 days.

take care
Milk

I tried one brand that was selling at premium price and didn't think it was good at all. I believe the Breyer's version may have a higher carb count than you're stating. I saw it on display yesterday right next to another brand that had similar packaging. The other brand had 4 carbs per serving but I thought the Breyer's had 2-4 times that amount (still very low for ice cream). With the almost identical packaging, it was easy to mistake the off brand for Breyer's. If I'm wrong, you can give me a BBBJTC...rich and creamy, but mostly protein.

No it was Breyers as it was one sale 2 for 1 and I have a coupon so I may stop by tomorrow and pick up a couple packages.

There is a low carb ice cream sold at Walmart's and the company name is blue bunny (carb freedom). They have vanilla bean (2 carbs 1/2 cup), double strawberry (4 carbs) and chocolate almond fudge (3 carbs). They are pretty tasty.

Trader Joe's sells some great low carb breads. There is a cinnamon and walnut bread that is delicious. I try not to eat too much bread and can avoid it most of the time.

I have been on the Atkins diet for seven weeks and have lost two inches around my waist. I need to lose about three more loops on my belt to be respectable. I want to have a hard body just like the chicas I admire and adore.

I remember the movie 'Fatso' where the chubby checker asks Dom Deluise "have you ever sucked the jelly out of a jelly donut?"

I don't know how I'll avoid the Negra Modelos and the Presidente brandy and cokes in March when I make my triumphant return to the 'holy city'.

Health and Peace, Lancer

ATKINS DECLARED BANKRUPTCY!!

This is NOT a good diet. It is nutritionally awful and especially dangerous for diabetics. I tried it during my early 20's and lost the pounds that I needed to, but it was not fun.

You do not need a diet with somebodies name attached to it. I am losing pounds while still enjoying the entire food pyramid by simply reducing carbs and sugars and calories while exercising a little more.

Another key to losing the lard is setting goals and rewards. Now in my 50s, I started at 255 pounds in February and will collect my 220 reward in Mexico next weekend and am looking forward to 205 in Brazil, 190 in Thailand, 180 in Phillipines, etcetera. The longer plane rides need to wait until I can fit in those tiny seats.

I'm afraid the bankruptcy says nothing one way or the other about whether it is a good diet or not. It might bear on poor business decisions made by the people who run Atkins, such as counting on the low-carb craze to continue to expand.

As to it being nutritionally awful, please be more specific. Are you talking about the induction phase, which can last as few as two weeks, or the later phases where you are essentially just limiting carbohydrate consumption? Also are you focusing on the diet itself, or the exaggerated hype about the diet that makes it seem steak, butter, and bacon (and saturdated fat generally), are mandatory parts of the diet? Also, please note the diet has evolved since it was first introduced more than 30 years ago when you were on it.

(Message edited by LAguy on August 06, 2005)

HOSTESS DECLARES BANKRUPTCY!!

This is NOT a good diet. It is nutritionally awful and especially dangerous for diabetics. I tried it during my teens and 20's and gained a lot of pounds, but it was a lot of fun.

You need an effective diet. I lost pounds while enjoying plenty of good food simply by reducing carbs (particularly sugar) and exercising.

A major key to the low carb diet -- eating lifestyle, really -- is to keep at it. This isn't the sort of diet you do just to lose weight, but improve your overall health by staying with it forever. Keep in mind we evolved to eat certain foods, carbs like grain, were introduced only a few thousand years ago ... we did not evolve to eat those!

This is awful. First the Atkins Diet goes bankrupt and now the Twinkee Diet. At this rate, how am I ever going to be able to get diabetes, or even a touch of cancer?? Arrrggghhhjh!! And no, I won't calm down, this is just awful.

Let us see now, Atkins killed Krispy Kreme, so who killed Atkins?

Doctor Atkins died many years ago. I think it was a heart attack. The diet does not have enough bulk to keep your digestive track moving and you need vitamin supplements to make up for the very limited food groups. I don't know much about Atkins evolution, but a few guys that I work with are doing it and they seem to be eating what I remember it allowed in the 1970s.

I am not knocking low carb per sey. I eat mostly low carb pastas and cereals and multigrain breads staying around 50 carbs per day. Whole grain shredded wheat and oat bran are great with some blueberries. Quite a few of the packaged frozen meals have acceptable carb and salt levels. My primary carb sacrifice was one snickers bar and two sodas per day. I do not miss the high fructose corn syrup at all.

My doctor recommended something called ISAGENIX and I ordered the 9 day cleansing kit for a rather outragous $170. The doc says that this works by flushing out the toxins that fat accumulates around, so I will let you know in about a month. On the other hand, Atkins fills your body with toxins from the commercial meat industry unless you go organic.

Atkins died in April 2003 from a slip on an icy sidewalk in New York and the resulting head injury. Not many years ago, and not from a heart attack.

If you consume only 50 grams of carbs a day, you are essentially on the Atkins diet, although not in the first stage (the initial two weeks).

Incidentally, Atkins was a major proponent of eating blueberries, although I doubt this was the case in the 1970s.

Also, you don't have to eat any meat at all on the Atkins diet, although you are not prohibited from doing so. Fish does the trick just as well.

Wasn't it Dolly Madison who put out "Zingers" The red coccanut and creamy filling Twinkee's ? Man those were great!

Now I recall hearing about the icy sidewalk story. Looks like I got Atkins mixed up with some other diet guru whose heart exploded while jogging, but I cannot recall who it was. Unfortunately it was not Richard Simmons.

Did a little carb counting today and it looks like I am closer to 100 grams, but mostly complex carbs.

Jim Fixx the marathon runner and guru who wrote "The Complete Book of Running" died of a heart attack while running in 1984. He was obese in his early life and was an advocate of diet and exercise.

Jim Fixx had a hereditary heart problem. Sad story at the time-- I was a reader of his at the time and enjoyed his book/humor/style.

Milkman,

I would like to know the long-term effects of your low-carb success. Good or bad?

I am kicking this thread up again, because I have read all of your posts on Atkins, and am giving it a whirl. I would like to read from you who posted several years ago. How did it go? What worked and what did not?

Well, I feel qualified to comment.

I am on a medically supervised Very Low Calorie Diet. Program is run out of one of the Premier Hospitals in Los Angeles.

The considered opinion of the staff in the program is that Atkins is just another one of the fads, a very poor program nutritionally and very hard to actually stick to.

Obesity is a complex condition. I continue to struggle with staying on program. In terms of straight weight loss, it's calories in > calories out. You can only cut input so much and you still need a balanced diet. Gotta up the output. Gottta deal with the stress in your life. Gotta deal with the choices you make in your life. Gotta deal with all the shit in your life.

If you stick to the Fatkins regimen, you will lose weight because you are eating fewer calories, BUT it is a nutritional train wreck.

There is nothing magical about the program I'm on (Health Management Resources, google it), the premise is that it's nutritionally complete, as filling as possible, part of a holistic program and in the beginning, if your choices are defined for you, you can't make bad choices.

In 5 months, I lost 125 lbs.

I am NOT representative of typical results. The collection of "losers" which I'm REQUIRED to attend "classes" with is typical. Some don't stay on program and lose nothing. Some lose a little. Some lose allot. After me the next biggest loser was 35 lbs.

Losing weight is conceptually simple but VERY HARD to actually accomplish and keep off. Get help and good luck.

(Message edited by smitopher on March 08, 2007)

There are four stages in the Atkins program. Many in the medical profession seem to ignore the last three and pretend there is only phase one, which Atkins only prescribed for two weeks, unless one would like to continue in phase 1 for a longer period. Although phase 1 may well be nutritionally deficit, if you stay on Atkins for more than a couple of weeks this shouldn't matter. The later stages basically involve just cutting down on unhealthy carbs, like sugars, etc.

Having been doing this for a few years, although with some minor lapses, my blood work readings have improved greatly, particularly cholesterol ratio, triglycerides, and fasting glucose; I'm less tired in the afternoons; have lost around 10 pounds, which is all I wanted to (well, maybe 15 would be a tad better), and have seen no ill effects.

Using the mantra "balanced diet" to somehow negate the Atkins low-carb approach really doesn't move the ball very far and tends to show an ignorance of what the Atkins diet really is, essentially cutting out bad carbs.

Incidentally, the Atkins diet is easy to stay on, unlike most others, unless you are totally addicted to rice, white potatoes, and bread. I substitute low-carb tortillas for the latter, never particularly liked rice anyway, and can do without potatoes. I also don't have a problem substituting diet drinks for sugary ones, and avoiding diabetes traps like orange juice.

The program I'm on does not trash carbs, rather "refined or processed" or as you put it, "bad" carbs. Why, because they are essentially sugar "diabetes traps". I buy the balanced diet mantra. Also the program emphasizes lifestyle, exercise and recognizing and counteracting food cues and behavior chains.

What I found that I liked about the Program I'm in is that it is based on published, peer reviewed research. If the Atkins program is working for you and your health is good, OK. I will still view it skeptically. Traditional Peer Reviewed Research is not the only way that knowledge is increased, but it is the most reliable way.

The published research does indicate that the Atkins program is hard to stick to, but then, all of them are. Atkins does spark strong opinions. I align myself with conventional medicine.

Around the time I started on Atkins there was what appeared to be a well-done peer reviewed article from Duke University that provided substantial support for the diet in terms of its effect on blood chemistry, etc.; my personal results mirror those of that peer reviewed study.

I'm unaware of any recent peer review articles that have trashed the Atkins diet, certainly not in the way you posted earlier.

I too align myself with conventional medicine and have some substantial problems with some of the fringe movements in alternative medicine. However, Atkins based his diet on earlier peer-reviewed studies showing the detrimental effects of high-carb diets. Indeed, the "studies" that might appear to show the Atkins diet is harmful are almost uniformly based on unreliable anecdotal evidence. And the very recent study out of Stanford Univeristy that I believe was peer reviewed (although I haven't looked at that study real carefully yet), concludes it is one of the better diets out there and one of the easist to stay on although not necessarily easy (if my recollection of that study is correct).

If it makes you feel better, I would just as soon call my diet a low carb diet rather than the Atkins diet. I have some difficulties though knowing what the real difference is. And Atkins too preached exercise, and so forth, as does just about everyone.

Conventional medicine is a double edged sword, my friends. While it may serve to weed out suspect claims, it also rejects revolutionary thinking. It took years for the medical community to accept that ulcers were caused by bacteria, that cancer can make your body grow blood vessels and that it's not a good idea to put mercury in your fillings. Conventional medicine really, really, likes the status quo.

A "balanced" diet you say? Well, what is that? I was taught that it was a certain proportion of meat, grain, dairy products, fruits and vegetables. Well, there are plenty of healthy herbivores out there that can claim you don't need meat. Now, native Americans will also point out that you don't need dairy products. They never had such before we arrived. That leaves grains and fruits and vegetables, right? Not on your life. The northern Inuit people thrived for thousands of years on fish and mammal protein with barely a berry and tuber thrown in for variety.

Conventional medicine doesn't like to be wrong so it simply ignores contrary beliefs, despite the facts.

Take the story of William Banting. The poor fellow was gaining weight and went on every diet his English doctors could prescribe. He also exercised regularly but still gained weight. At 65, his health was failing. A radical doctor suggested a radical low-carb diet. Within a year he lost a quarter of his weight and was as healthy as he was in his prime.

Banting published a booklet describing his diet and its amazing results. Because it was contrary to the established medical doctrine, the medical community ridiculed his papers and book. Some folks took to it though and the term "Banting" was sometimes substituted for dieting.

Mind you this was way back in the late sixties. A long time before Atkins' became popular. We all could have benefited by this dietary approach years ago if the established medicine had not been so quick to criticize that which they did not understand.

Oh, sorry, I said late sixties, didn't I? I should have been more clear, it was the late eighteen sixties a hundred and forty years ago.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17484912/

There are a couple of interesting things about the results.

1. The results are not statistically conclusive.

2. The article is filled with quotes from people who obviously have a vested interest, and aren't going to let the results sway their opinions.

3. The only statistically valid conclusion from the study seems to be "Nobody can keep on a diet for longer than 6 months."

The Gnomes: "Nobody can keep on a diet for longer than 6 months" was not tested statistically in the study. Also, note your points 1 and 3 are contradictory.

Next month i am of to Thailand, for those who have seen me, i really do look like your stereotype fat balding sex tourist, so i am seriously thinking of booking myself into one of them detox programs at a health centre on phuket, has any monger done one of these, ill be interested to know.

Redbus, I did a one-week cleansing fast on Koh Samui last August, it was fantatstic! Goto www.spasamui.com for all the details, feel free to PM me if you want to discuss it further.