Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive 01	50		2005/03/20, 06:21 pm

When I read that some on this site bateback, I just want to shoot them.

They are putting all of us in danger (albeit small). There are several diseases that you can get even with condom use. Most won't kill you but it you can have serious health consequences. Those who bareback spread stuff that can show no symptoms at all and we can get something, even if we do the right things.

I believe that most in Termas and Massage Parlors will not bareback under any circumstances. I try to stick with these girls. I also don't DATY since oral sex can lead to spread of Herpes. I demand CBJ's so I won't get anything. And most important, I always follow every trip with a visit to my doctor to do a full STD checkup.

I've been mongering for 10 years and have never caught anything.

If you don't like the feel of latex then switch to polyeurathane condoms. They transfer heat better so it feels more natural, even for a CBJ.

I hate CBJs and the thought of willingly using a rubber for one is not for me. I always use rubbers for fucking, but FYI, getting bareback from a lot of terma girls is not a difficult thing to accomplish if they know you.

Just checking in to see how the other half were doing...

Catocony, try using a poly rubber next time and see if its ok.

Admittedly it isn't as good as a BBJ, but it still can be very good.

As far as a Terma girl going bareback, that suprises me however I guess its to be expected.

CBJ -- what is this world coming to?

I know. But I used to work in the medical field and believe me, oral to genital herpes is more common than you think.

It generally requires contact with a mucus membrane, the mouth obviously is one, the tip of Mr. Johnson is also one. In vaginal to penis contact, it only needs to brush up against skin that may have an abraision (from too much sex) or any opening of somekind. You can theorheticlly get herpes even when using a condom however this is rare.

Oral to oral contact is easy that is why 70% of us get cold sores (herpes).

CBJ's are a good idea even if it isn't as fun. Sorry guys.

Just Say No to CBJs

I've heard that just the abrasions from rubbing pubic hairs in the pelvic area during sex can transmit STD's. All the more reason to do it doggie

It generally requires contact with a mucus membrane

Mmmmmmmmmm...........contact with mucus membrane. I just got wood.

Ahh, bareback sex, my favorite topic. I posted a poll back on Jan 8th asking if anyone knows a heterosexual male who has contracted HIV from vaginal sex with a woman? Check the poll for results, as they are constantly changing (but remain somewhat consistant in that 15% or so said "yes" they knew someone). Personally I don't know anyone, nor do I know ANYONE who knows ANYONE who has contracted the disease heterosexually. Considering 6 degrees of separation, this is quite a statement, especially for a disease that scares the shit out of everyone in the world. To better educate myself and others about the real deal, I'd like to ask this question here to see if anyone has a story, or if anyone who answered "yes" to my poll has more details.

I've come accross quite a bit of research lately that suggests a few things which radically contradict what the general public believes about the risks associated with HIV/Aids, although they may seem obvious to some:

1) vaginal fluids do NOT contain enough of the virus to transmit the disease, contrary to popular belief. Perhaps it contains more than saliva, but still not enough.

2) blood (from her period perhaps?) would have to somehow make it all the way down the urethra to enter the male body (i dont think this EVER happens).

3) unless there are open sores on the penis and the woman is bleeding (or there is blood present in the vagina), the virus has no way to enter the male body and therefore no way to transmit itself.

So how is it possible for a heterosexual, non IV drug using male with no open sores to contract HIV from vaginal sex with a non-IV drug using woman who is NOT on her period and has no open sores? Doesnt this make transmission in this instance, impossible? I think the answer is YES. This is why there has been NO outbreak of HIV among the heterosexual populations of developed countries.

So my guess is that the 15% of guys who said YES (on the poll) they know a heterosexual male who has contracted this disease through vaginal sex dont know the whole story. There are MANY reasons why a bi-sexual or gay man would lie about his sexual practices, since being gay or bi is NOT accepted, socially. Neither is being an IV drug user.
Countless doctors will concur that intravenous drug use, and homosexual sex, especially receptive anal sex, remain the dominant ways to spread the virus. In the absense of open sores on the penis, vaginal transmission is virtually impossible.
I'd like to hear any real life stories if anyone has evidence to the contrary.

All this being said, I still use condoms during the MAJORITY of my sexual encounters, but I do enjoy bareback immensely and want to gather as much data (anecdotal or otherwise) as possible with which to make future decisions.

Looking forward to your responses.

1) vaginal fluids do NOT contain enough of the virus to transmit the disease, contrary to popular belief. Perhaps it contains more than saliva, but still not enough.

2) blood (from her period perhaps?) would have to somehow make it all the way down the urethra to enter the male body (i dont think this EVER happens).

I've done alot of reading on the topic and have had lengthy discussions with medical professionals, and i do agree that the AIDS scare has been overblown, but have no doubt in my mind that it can be transmitted via vaginal sex under certain circumstances unrelated to anal sex or drug use. anyways, never have i heard theses far fetched points (points 1 & 2 above) you've posted. Please provide REFERENCES to the medical journals you found theses points in.

(Message edited by socrates69 on February 03, 2005)

I've read a bit on the topic too. So may as well toss in my 2 cents. HIV scare is sometimes overblown publicity wise . . . BUT,
the MAIN way it is transmitted from women to men is through unprotected vaginal sex. Only ONE CELL has to getin the whole at the tip of your mister. That's how hetero dudes usually get it. To a lesser extent it is passed through unprotected anal sex, only b/c it is practiced less frequently. More blood inthe ass. Mentral fluid- just run.
Harder to get it through BBBJ, but you can give it to her easily this way. Semen is loaded with HIV cells if you got it.. Saliva is not. Medium level of risk in DATY, unprotected. Vaginal fluid contains it but not to degree of semen, so less likely to get it, if you don't have an abrasion, etc. ONly ONE CELL has to get through skin- think really chapped lips, canker soar-- toast.

It's inescapable for the hopbbyist...If you screw around with a lot of partners and those partners are sex workers . . . well, you best play it safe, but you may well skate by w/out getting impacted, though it's wreckless, esp bareback. I wrestle with this one man it sucks. But you got to face the fact we go through scores of these broads....
BBBJ you can get chlamydia (curable), syphilis (curable), gonnareaha (curable), herpes (not curable) and probably some other niceties- HIV hard to get this way, not impossible just hard. Covered sex you may get (herpes- slightly harder) or HPV (genital warts- which you probably won't know you have but you can spread to women bareback). Squeeze the tip of the condom before you put it on so that sucker does not break or slip off, when it gets slippery replace it. You can get herpes on your shaft on the part that the condom was slipping off of. Herpes can be passed (types I and II) to wherever was not covered.
Alright maybe that was 5 cents.

All, transfer of HIV from the woman to man is extremely rare. Theorhetically you can get HIV through vaginal sex but the HIV virus needs volume. Meaning you need quite a bit of cells to transfer the disease.

Yes, its possible but there are few real documented cases that this occured.

Now on the other hand, it is easy to get other STD's without a condom and some even with. For instance, genital warts can be transferred between partners even with a condom.

Go to the CDC website and see the real story.

Remember, if you get an STD, it could be asymptomatic. Meaning no symptoms.

If you have no symptoms, you are going to pass it to another (non-pro perhaps) and not even know it.

yes, all good points. Lou32d, you need more than 1 cell to get the virus, and the virus cannot penetrate unbroken skin, so as long as you dont have sores on your jimmy, you should be relatively safe from this virus. I've heard from several doctors, including the ones at the medical center in college (i went to an Ivy League school so the docs were VERY good) scared shitless because I was having sex with a girl the night before and the condom slipped off. They wouldnt even test me because they knew that I basically couldnt get HIV this way. They would never preach this publicly because they dont want to encourage people to be irresponsible, but behind closed doors, theyll tell you the real deal.
as for references, there was a LONG article in either the NY Times or Newsweek back in August or September which broke this story about vaginal fluids not containing enough to pass the virus, especially down the urethra.

There are also plenty of articles on www.virusmyth.com which discuss this topic in great detail. Many articles have mentioned how there several interest groups like Gays, the medical community and Christian rights folks who all have a vested interest in convincing everyone that they are at risk.

1) Gays know that the funding for the disease would dry up if everyone knew that its a lifestyle disease and that Gays and IV Drug users are the ones largely at risk. So they launch campaigns to scare the shit out of everyone so that we all think we are infected even if a condom slips off with a college girlfriend and you enjoyed 5 bareback strokes with her.

2) The medical community makes tons of money during blood tests, doctor visits, selling test kits, and medications.

3) The Christian rights folks want everyone to be scared of fucking so that they'll practice abstinance.

U know while u all are sittin around the keyboard, I'm sitting back fucking like a rabbit in heat. I'm wearing a body wrap so no condoms needed here.

I've run into more than a few doctors prowling around Rio and a few of them are even sicker than me. I figure if we follow the example of our US highly-trained physicians, we should be in good shape, right? So, without naming names, it would appear that our good doctors cornhole garotas every chance they get, eat pussy on an hourly basis and get BBBJs whenever possible. Hey, they're medical professionals, so they know what's what, right?

I'm quite knowledgable about all the politics that go with the aids scare...what I'm more worried about is the notion that you're basing your decisions on that old piece of work....virusmyth.com

cherry picking outdated articles to rationalize your decisions is not the wisest of choices.

besides...there has been a plethora of evidence that have shown that hiv does in fact cause AIDS. PCR has been used to find HIV in almost every patient with AIDS.

ask yourself this, would you poke yourself with an HIV infected needle with a 100% confidence that it would not lead to AIDS?

think about it, spreading this type of misinformation could negatively impact the hiv+ population and damper public health efforts to control this disease.

Thanks Soc.

Finally......a voice of sanity and rationality.

Read and believe what you like and make your own informed decisions but, as a wise and very intelligent old mentor once told me, "It is easier to stay out of trouble than it is to get out of trouble"

If all you are worried about is HIV/AIDS, then by all means get a BBBJ.

The mouth contains an acid called Amalayse which kills the HIV virus so unless your girl has just been punched in the mouth and is bleeding all over the place, there is virtually no chance of getting HIV from a BBBJ. However see my post earlier about other stuff.

I'm still waiting for stories, anecdotes, evidence that straight, non drug using males who engage in vaginal sex with women (where neither party has cuts or abrasions on their genitals) catch HIV. If this is such a realistic possibility, why is it that hardly anyone can name someone who has contracted it this way? Don't we all know someone who has had cancer, is diabetic, has alzheimers, herpes etc? Why is everyone afraid of something that no one in our risk group seems to catch? (That risk group being defined as straight, hetero males without cuts, abraisions or other stds, and who practice VAGINAL sex with women).

Drip, it doesn't exist. Men getting HIV from women happens so little that there is no documentation on it. Even ANAL SEX.

Like I said before, HIV requires volumes of cells.

Guys that take it up the poop shute without a condom are at risk because the shooter is depositing volumes of HIV cells into the receiver.

Now STD's are a different story, its very easy to get Herpes or a variety of other STD's without a condom. The worst being Hepatitus. That can be as bad as AIDS and there is no cure.

There are PLENTY of documented cases of Hep trasfers.

If you are just afraid of HIV then you are just ignorant.

Sniper wrote:"Men getting HIV from women happens so little that there is no documentation on it. Even ANAL SEX."

If either parterner MAN/WOMAN or MAN/MAN has HIV why would it happen so little in the MAN/WOMAN anal sex case versus the MAN/MAN anal sex case?

Just curious, I am not trying to engage in flame war or question your intelligence? But my simpleton brain doesn't see a difference and I am not well read on HIV transmission cases.

Drip007 wrote: "Don't we all know someone who has had cancer, is diabetic, has alzheimers, herpes etc?"

STDs scare the shit out of me and when one hears about the statistics of heperes and how easy it is to get, I personally don't know anyone with genital herpes. I think that is a good thing but statistically I should know someone, right?

Of course no one I know may freely admit to having herpes too.

Regarding condom use in gerneral, I think one monger is going to look at the brighter side of the statistics to justify his sin condom activities and the other monger is going to weigh the negatives to justify his condom usage.

We all KNOW there is RISK by going bareback, minimal or great as it could be, and it's as simple as that and I say go with what ever choice makes you happpy.

To clarify, women don't deposit volumes of HIV cells in men in any manner. A man does deposit volumes of cells in women if not using a condom.

Therefore men pass it to women fairly easily but not the other way around.

Its important to say that the risk isn't ZERO in any type of sex. It can happen. I guess i'm not afraid of HIV because I use a condom EVERY time for all services provided. I also use lube liberally so there is not much friction that can cause a break. I've never had a condom break in 10 years of mongering.

I'm more concerned about other non curable STD's like Herpes and Hepatitus. Other curable STD's are also a concern but at least I'll live.

As far as saying you don't know anyone with Genital Herpes, thats great. They probably use condoms. Using condoms greatly reduces the risk but doesn't elimiate it.

I guess my point is that those that go bareback are putting others in danger, even if only slightly. I look at that as a completely selfish act. I never hope that they would get anything but in reality if anyone would deserve it, it would be them.

Sniper wrote:"I guess my point is that those that go bareback are putting others in danger, even if only slightly. I look at that as a completely selfish act. I never hope that they would get anything but in reality if anyone would deserve it, it would be them."

Sniper,

Thanks for answering my question.

Also, I see your opinion regarding barebacking as a selfish act.

But IMHO the most SELFISH act is barebacking, or mongering/hooking in general, after one knows he/she has an STD.

>>The worst being Hepatitus. That can be as bad as AIDS and there is no cure.>>

I saw stats on this a while ago. Bareback ass sex is such a high risk due to the Hep, etc. in feces.

>>Therefore men pass it to women fairly easily but not the other way around. >>

Oral sex on a woman is risky, especially if the guy is a big slurper of her fluids.

"I saw stats on this a while ago. Bareback ass sex is such a high risk due to the Hep, etc. in feces."

There are different types of Hepatitus, right?

And can't you get a vacine for one of them? This one is probably the lesser of the evils, but it's better to get the vaccine anyway, right?

Hep C is the killer, it destroys the liver and there's not a hell of a lot you can do about it. It's primarily spread via blood. Hep A is the more routine kind, there is a vacine and it is the kind spread most easily. Feces is a major way, which is why you should never eat the skin on fruits in 3rd world countries. Some cultures use shit from pit privies as a fertilizer.

I was under the impression that there's also a vaccine for Hep C

Only a preventative against Hep C from what I understand. I have gotten Hepatitus shots before, I asked for all available vaccines.

I agree with the sentiments of those earlier. I just believe that if you are going to monger, then do it in the most safe way available. At the end of your trip, take antibiotics that get rid of your standard garden variety STD's if you desire. If you are using a condom correctly, you shouldn't get them, even Hep C.

As far as Hep A coming from feces, that is true. However if you live in California, Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico, most likely you are eating fruits from Mexico. Mexico also uses human feces. Just wash your fruit and you should be fine.

In short, don't be afraid of HIV from sex (at least the kind we engage in). Be careful about the other things that you can get.

"I'm still waiting for stories, anecdotes, evidence that straight, non drug using males who engage in vaginal sex with women"

There are plenty of articles on www.medline.com which discuss this topic in great detail.

Great follow up guys. Just for the record, I DO insist on a condom over 90% of the time, but the other 10% of the time I either make a choice, or I slip up and don't use one. I NEVER just go to a mongering destination with the intention of running up in all these girls rawdog. But sometimes it just happens.
Sniper, I am fully aware of the other STDs (which is why I wear a condom MOST of the time), and I have been vacinated for HEP A & B. You're right though, it's HEP C that's a bitch. But I think you're wrong about it being an STD. I went through some drama with a false positive for this test about 4 years ago. The docs said they honestly don't know how it is spread. As for everything else, of course no one wants these other diseases like herpes, genital warts, etc, but at least they are not life threatening. I worry about them, but just not to the same degree.
Frontbc, as far as you not knowing anyone with the other STDs, I am sure you do, but most people do NOT want to freely admit to ANYONE that they have this. Besides, while herpes is NOT curable, it generally runs its course in 4 years and is no longer active causing breakouts in the carrier. So while it is still within the body of the person carrying it, and can technically still be spread through unprotected sex, as long as their is not an active or pending breakout, it is much more difficult to pick up. Let's face it, stats show that 1 in 4 people in America (maybe even the world) have herpes. (although i am somewhat fuzzy on whether or not this includes simplex A & B or just B, the genital kind). Pretty staggering huh?
Also, as far as bareback sex putting others in danger, I disagree somewhat. If you are infected with something and knowingly go bareback, that is wrong. However, if you are clean, the only person you are putting at risk is yourself.

Socrates, I checked out www.medline.com but didnt see the relevance. It seems to be a medical products company of some sort. Where are the articles?

Sniper, do you kiss the girls on the lips or face when mongering?

If so you are many times more likely to get both HPV (herpes simplex virus type 1 and 2) and hepatitis this way, then through a BBBJ.

Girl gives BBBJ or ball lick or rim job or touches the guys dick/anus then rubs face/lips in the Thermas, then 30 minutes later you are kissing her.

The point is, there in fact much less risk for the male in BBBJ then lip kissing.

Why are you so intent on being so paranoid about one activity then the other? Is it because BBBJ is "sex" and kissing is not?

Another item for you all to consider if you follow Sniper's thinking of CBJ is CHANGE THE CONDOM BEFORE YOU HAVE VAGINAL OR ANAL SEX. Often in CBJ rubbing of the teeth or braces, plus the fact that is likely an unlubricated condom or one in wich the lubrication wears off by the BJ, will greatly increase the chances of a condom breaking during subsequent vaginal or anal sex.

Gator,

Because Herpes on the mouth can be explained as a cold sore, which 70%+ of the population has. If its on my dick, I pretty much need to hang up dating non-pros unless I want to explain myself.

If you are having your balls licked, the mucus membrane of your dick is not exposed. Hepatitis needs broken skin or some method of reaching the bloodstream. Licking your ass or vice versa can expose you to Hepatitus.

Herpes just needs skin to skin contact, you are right, there still is a risk. All I can do is try to reduce it. It works for me. Actually there is less risk for Herpes with oral sex than would be expected because they are different strains, but it isn't zero.

If you want a BBBJ, I don't fault anyone. If you fuck without a condom, I think you should be shot.

I agree on changing the condom after a CBJ.

Regarding herpes simplex virus (hsv) type 1 and 2... You can get type 2 anywhere on body, and you can get type 1 anywhere on body. Mostly find type 1 on mouth, and type 2 below the belt, type 1 is somewhat less difficult to transmit asymptomatically (without a visible outbreak) than type 2 more easily transmits asym.. BBBJ can give you type 1 or 2 if girl has outbreak and doesn't know or if she is asymptomatically transmitting. BBBJ HIV transmission likelihood very low.

Bareback vaginal sex definately exposes you to risk of hiv. Period, it's fact that most hetero guys who get it, got it that way. When in doubt, reread the last two sentences. If you want to delude yourself over the fact, just acknowledge the denial.

My understanding of the 1 in 4 stat for herpes is this... 1 in 4 test positive for having hsv antibodies in the blood, meaning they probably carry virus and their bodies began producing antibodies to combat the virus.. but not all those people ever had or knew they had an outbreak. Additionally , many people also test positive because of cold sores (hsv1) they had when young, or to a lesser extent because of chicken pox (which is a closely related ulcer producing virus).

That said, a lot of people have herpes and do not know it. A lot of people have herpes and would never tell ANYONE. Think about it. Even more people have genital warts, most guys never show symptoms but pass them. There are many different strains of genital warts and most are not that big a deal. Some cause cervical cancer in women. SOme make warts show up on your dick.

It's all our choice if we BBBJ or not, obviously. It feels good, obviously. But just acknowledge the facts (which also includes realizing that YOU could be transmitting hiv to HER...)

That said, do your best to avoid uncovered vaginal or anal sex, period. What more can you do? Enjoy the time we got here.

Lou32d,

Thanks for the post.

"Bareback vaginal sex definately exposes you to risk of hiv. Period, it's fact that most hetero guys who get it, got it that way. When in doubt, reread the last two sentences. If you want to delude yourself over the fact, just acknowledge the denial."

Loud32, that is flat wrong. While a guy can be exposed through vaginal sex if he has open sores on his penis, if he does NOT have open sores, he is basically not at risk at all. The overwhelming majority of heterosexuals who have HIV are IV Drug users, period. While women are more susceptible than men to getting the virus through heterosexual sex, this is still extremely rare, unless she is getting it in the ass from an infected male partner. You see, semen and blood are the only two fluids which contain enough of the virus to infect another person. This is why IV drug users who share infected needles, and gay men are the primary risk groups.

There are a lot of interest groups out there who are trying to scare the general population into abstanence becuase, quite frankly, funding would dry up if people thought the disease was limited to Gays and Druggies. But think for a minute, who do you know who is a hetero male, who had unprotected vaginal sex with a woman and contracted this disease? As much sex as people have in the world, the virus would have spread through the hetero population over the last 20 years and wiped out a huge portion of hetero men and women. This hasn't happened. Why? Because everyone is using condoms? Definitely NOT. It's because the hetero population who are NOT using drugs, do NOT have open sores on their genitals and are NOT engaging in unsafe anal sex, are not at risk. Think about all the pussy that professional athletes, singers and moviestars get. Why is it that Magic Johnson is the ONLY heterosexual male celebrity to contract this disease (sexually) in the last 20 years? Do you really think all these guys use condoms on EVERY single woman they fuck? Of course not! The fact is, the virus is NOT easily spread this way.

Get a load of this: An acquaintence of mine works at a large public hospital in Manhattan. He is an HIV counselor who helps newly infected people come to terms with their condition. In 12 years he has NEVER come accross any men who contracted the disease through sex with a woman. In a few instances, he said it took a while for the bi sexual men to admit to having sex with another man. Many of these guys are married with families and good jobs. They would rather make up a story about having sex with a female prostitute than admit to the fact that they let another guy fuck them in the ass. But after a few sessions with the counselor, they break down and come clean, admitting to the fact that they are gay, or bi.

The bottom line is, there aren't many non-drug using, hetero guys who have it. My point has been proven over and over again by lack of guys on this board who can name anyone theyv'e ever known to be a hetero male and contracted HIV through unprotected vaginal sex. With the abscense of open sores on your dick, there is simply no way for the virus to enter your body. Vaginal fluid contains very low concentrations of the virus, too low to transmit the disease. So this is NOT denial or diluding one's self. This is only getting down to the facts. The risks for other diseases is EXTREMELY high when engaging in unprotected sex, but for HIV it is simply NOT a high risk for straight men.

That said, no one wants genital warts or herpes or hepatitis so protect yourself. But you basically don't need to worry about getting HIV if you dont fall into one of the risk groups.

you're like the equivelent to the grunt/mr.homes of the citali thread.

strange agenda you have drip...bending over backwards trying to convince others that hiv does not equal aids, that hiv can't be transmitted via heterosexual intercourse, and that the urethra isn't a point of entry for viruses and bacteria.

newsflash....
the large opening at the top of your penis called the uretra is a point of entry (gonn, syphilis, etc), the same as your mouth, and eyes. Also, there are alot of other risk factors that increase the transmission of hiv from female to male. see link

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi

Socrates,

Please don't put words in my mouth. I have never said that HIV does not cause AIDS. I never said that it cannot be transmitted heterosexually, and I never said the urethra does not allow access for viruses and bacteria.

As for HIV not causing AIDS, there are a bunch of well known doctors who believe this, but I don't know enough to say at this point. I came accross an interesting article and I have read others who agree, but I don't know if I agree myself. I just put it up here to offer another perspective. Is it really so bad for us to not be scared to death of having sex? Being scared over a non-leathal disease or getting a girl pregnant is enough. I just don't think we should have to worry about losing our lives for enjoying the best pleasures known to man, sex.

I have never said that the urethra does offer entry to most stds and bacteria. What is true however, is that it doesnt offer direct access to the bloodstream (except in EXTREMELY rare cases, I suppose), which is what HIV needs for transmission. And think about it, you'd have to have sex with a woman who has a bleeding pussy and somehow blood makes its way all the way down your urethra despite the huge load of cum that you shoot out upon ejaculation. Even among gays, it's generally the person on the RECEIVING end of anal sex who is at risk, not the penetrator. Again, the urethra is a tough one for HIV.

And lastly, I am not saying that HIV cannot be passed through heterosexual sex. It can be. I am just saying that it is VERY VERY rare for a MALE to get it from vaginal sex with a woman provided he has no cuts or open wounds on his penis. What usually happens is women get it from men who fuck them in the ass.

I don't have an agenda and if it appears that way, I apologize. I just like to know the facts, not what the general public believes are the facts. I am on this board trying to see if anyone else can offer any information to refute my arguments. So far, no one has.

Please I'm all ears and wanting to learn more. This is a very important issue and one that most people don't know enough about.





I think that link you sent requires a username and password. If there are specific articles you want to show, please cut and paste them.

check this site as a further resource for your own info. be safe, use protection but be armed with this knowledge as well.

The link below shows stats for LA county. With over 11 million people in LAC, it shows the cumulative AIDs cases since the disease was discovered. Hetero males make up 1% of the total cases. It doesnt get into more details so I think it's fair to assume that the 1% either had anal sex or had open sores.

http://phps.dhs.co.la.ca.us/hiv/reports/epipro/1998/epipro42.htm

Drip

...I appreciate that you're strong in your position. You're probably right that among hetero guys, needle injection infection is probably a higher contributor ... I don't know for sure. I was excluding that segment of the population from what I said before and should have been more specific.

Still, I don't know who you spoke with and don't doubt someone told you that, but it's widely documented, and not a part of some coordinated effort to "scare" folks into a sex practice conformance, that hetero guys get hiv from unprotected vaginal sex with women. I unfortunately do know of men who got it that way and that's there business that I'd rather not divulge in great detail. But the women were sex workers, leave it at that.

I hope no one who reads this thread thinks they can't get hiv from unprotected vaginal sex from an hiv infected woman in the absence of soars, open cuts, etc. I wish what you say was true but it's not.

Myself, Socrates and Frontbc will have to agree to disagree with you. It's a mexican standoff, striaght up. Call the Centers of Disease Contol. Call the AIDS hotline. But I don't think there's any convincing you, which I can live with.

There are not hundreds, but thousands, of hiv infected men who have indicated the only source of their infection could have been unprotected vaginal sex. If you want to interpret that to mean those were were closet bi sexuals or drug users or dialysis receivers, go ahead . . . but it's a nonstarter.

Be careful man, wear a rubber and you're cool. You still have to enjoy sex and life, I agree.

Finally! The news we've all been waiting for.

Bareback, and you'll never die from cancer.

http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,66579,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1

Get HIV to avoid cancer? Gain death to subvert surgery? No thanks.

I've seen a few people on this site mention NGU. While this isn't lethal, it can be embarrasing if you infect a girlfriend or spouse.

I am posting this because it give some of the non sex excuses that you can give if you find yourself in this situation.

How can I get NGU?

* Sexual:

Most germs that cause NGU can be passed during sex (vaginal, anal or oral) that involves direct mucous membrane contact with an infected person.

These germs can be passed even if the penis or tongue does not go all the way into the vagina, mouth or rectum, and even if body fluids are not exchanged.

* Nonsexual:

These causes of NGU may include:

Urinary tract infections.

An inflamed prostate gland due to bacteria (bacterial prostatitis).

A narrowing or closing of the tube in the penis (urethral stricture).

A tightening of the foreskin so that it cannot be pulled back from the head of the penis (phimosa).

The result of a process such as inserting a tube into the penis (catheterization).

My favorite is the Urinary tract infection excuse. When you come home, immediately tell your spouse that you think you have a urinary tract infection.
Escherichia coli (E. coli) causes about 80% of UTIs in adults. Meaning you could conceivably catch this from using a public toilet.

I have not had to use this yet but believe me its in my arsenal.

Has anyone ever used the OraQuick HIV test yet? There is a new HIV test that takes only one pin prick of the finger and the results os HIV in 20 minutes.
http://www.abbottdiagnostics.com/Reagents_Tests/testdetail.cfm?test=oraquick

Tonguefu

Yes, actually the OraQuick is an oral test as well as plasma/blood test.

I picked up a dozen, only got around to using 3 of them. 1 on myself and 2 with the girls. For the most part, I didn't need to, but it was something to try, and was an expensive conversational piece with the two girls I used it with.

I read somewhere maybe on this site already that when most people brush their teeth the gums bleed, sometimes (about 5 to 10%) of the time we see it when we brush our teeth ourselves, now assuming most of the times the blood is not so obvious or is very hard to see, when therma girls brush their teeth before giving BBBJ to the next cient, does this pose a risk of getting blood (in very less quantities which can be dangerous) on ur bare dick which may get small abrasions during the BJ... is this not dangerous fluid contact?.... ofcourse i may have made many assumptions but maybe someone in the med field can advice?
....

More of a danger to her than you if you are infected-not you personally but in the general sense. An entry port for her more than you as there is not enough blood remaining to be a threat to you but her gums may still be an open route for the virus to enter her system.

I heard that the gums heal within half an hour--is this true?

I also have concerns about openings in the skin inside my mouth when I accidently bite my cheek or lip--how long do those take to heal enough to safely enjoy vaginal juice of unknown virus content?

damn and I thought i was bad for worrying about BB'ing during their monthly pool of blood.

U know mouthwash could iritate the throat and result in a possible entry point ?

bareback !!!
I love it...

I adore it..

fuck them rubbers

sniper....

gee do you think I should be shot ??

yapp give me that bullet.

Now I see why you want to go to AC. I think you should avoid AC as Chlamydia and Gonorrhea is rampant there and there have been several AIDS cases recently. Might want to stick with Thailand. Pretty much everyone I know that has barebacked in AC has contracted VD and some venereal warts. If you dont like rubbers, stay out of AC.

Right on Blazers...still very important to wear that rubber to avoid the bugs that irritate the urethra...condoms cannot fully protect against venereal warts since a woman's backsplash can get you on the base of your dick or ball bag.

It is apparent HIV/AIDs needs an entry point whereas "in sufficient quantity and duration" it can infect the host. Such as gay or bi men taking a load in the ass, or women taking a load in their ass or pussy. Though not totally proven...it appears that a man with a circumcised penis is at a lower risk of contracting HIV.

Of course, the only chica I bareback is my wife and one non-pro girlfriend who claims she is monogamous...I can only hope they both only fuck me, or if they stray they use a condom. But when out with anyone else, I always wear a condom...but condoms sometimes break...when that happens I always dump a load cause I'm there in heaven anyway...but then I apologize and wash up...then I try to muster-up a good strong piss. When I get back to my hotel and have actually immersed my dick in a glass of rubbing alcohol...wow...scary first-time I did this, but it doesn't hurt as bad as I thought it would given I normally have no open cuts or sores on my dick. I have no idea if this has ever prevented any bugs...but then again I never picked anything up since my one and only time in the PI back in the early 90s...damn Gono & non-specific urethra-itis (NSU).

Anyway, I was just HIV tested in October with a big NEG and I haven't had my dick in a woman since. (Yeah, its feast or famine for me unfortunately). I could stop right now and maybe live into my 80s or 90s...but, no doubt there is a big truck that will eventually t-bone me somewhere...so as soon as I can...I'll get out there again...but fucking most of the time with condoms.

And anytime the condom breaks...she gets a pussy full of my cum...I'm sorry, but that's the trade-off.

AJ

Yep I concur with Blazers, here is some unhappy reading for the happy monger about AC

http://www.fhi.org/NR/rdonlyres/etxhtonvcevns6pqqqtst3lgice3liwkoqetysgitfdvjzgfntdgloorkpw3epayml2qefz3xw4k7f/PhilippinesReport2.pdf

Basically, this scientific and non-politcial study documents that over 35% of the bar girls in AC have Chlamydia or Gonorrhea. Stick with Pattaya the truly Happy Place.

Yeah and I think the girls are getting tired of being infected as well. Most asked for condoms this trip except for my old time friends who I revisited. Especially the younger hotter girls who barfine more frequently are becoming much more aware of the dangers they face in bareback sex.

If all your looking for is bareback - AC is no longer the place to go. I hear China and Jakarta are still free love destinations.

Instead of alcohol I would recommend soap...leather up and actually let it sit for at least a minute and then rinse. Carry a small bar of soap if you are going into the KM type places. All viruses and bacteria are surrounded by either or both lipid and protein coats that should be disrupted by soap.

China is perhaps the most condom-using country I've ever been to...

No way, shape, or form like AC or JKT.

Well Jakarta as well has become a definite wrap it up kind of place. Every place in Kota, or any massage parlor and brothel in the city for that matter, now asks you to wrap it up and requires you to purchase or have a condom before you go into the room. Perhaps you can find more less stringent behavior amongst the freelancers prowling the Bule venues like Blok M or the 5* hotel bars.

China is definitely the home of Condomania.

Seems like the last wide open BB major venue is the beer bars and FL of Pattaya.

Reporting from Chang Ping I can back Don Marco and Mongerx up on their statements about condom usage in China, at least insofar as Chang Ping and Zhuhai seem to go.

(Message edited by LAguy on November 25, 2006)

(Message edited by LAguy on November 25, 2006)

I guess if you want bareback sex then Botswana would be the place to go !

Is that on your itinerary Happy Monge ?
BTW
Did you forget an R somewhere or is there some other meaning to ur handle !!

Guys,
Happy Monger is a troll, who runs around digging up old posts trying to get a response. He's to be ignored.

I'm not convinced he is just someone playing around. I think he is just a fucking REtard. He's definitely happy, perhaps a little too happy.

I still can't get that picture where he is sitting on the bed naked with a girl out of my head.

Hey Happy Monger, no one wants to see your ugly ass in every one of your pictures. Learn the art of cropping.

yoo dunder heads !!! bran-less-quinho and arellius... calling ma a retard, for the simple fact that I stated a opinion. WOW !!well both of you, branquinhooo and arellius are fucked beyond imagination...and are in need of help.
do not wanna see me? I can live with that. calling me a troll !! wow , good job both of you. and arellius I'am glad that picture sunk into your head. it was intended for that purpose.

Mr. Khuin_mor why not Botswana?? I'am sure it has pleasant surprises awaiting

Yeah, I posted that back in November, you Fucktard. It still applies.

ROTFLMAO!!!! Now THM is digging up old posts...about himself!

Arellius, you got that right. What makes this funnier in retrospect is THM recently laid out $5K to get treated for an std because (1) he disdains condoms and (2) he has no health insurance. THM is going to be in for a rude suprise when he finds he's HIV+ and learns what that will cost him with no insurance.

Let's take up a collection and send THM to Botswana, which recently passed Swaziland for the highest HIV prevalence rates. I have a friend who works over there, and he knows of a brothel where all the women are HIV+ and they are happy to go bareback.

Is it Fucktard or Drippydicktard? Or both?

The thing about the Goofy Monger is every time he starts to gain a half an ounce of credibility, he apparently goes off his meds (not for his dick problems, but for his mental ones) and blows himself right out of the water again.

if aids is only for fags and herpes is only vaginal then how bout man to woman anal. (assuming she licks the diseases away immediately after u pull out)

What?????

Newuser,

would you please elaborate or expound a little furthur ?

CFK

Newuser makes a profound point. I agree with CFK that we could use more of his wisdom.

ummm... WOW.

but seriously, come back and clarify Newuser. Education can be had here.

Best of luck

newuser, so your saying that you have herps and you want her to roll up into a ball and lick herself clean after you have done her up the arse.

Newuser,
Thank you, it is refreshing to see evidence that the education system is not failing.
CG

Another live one. Oh boy!

If only his dad had not barebacked his mom, this whole thing could have been avoided. Now that we have immunizations and everything, natural selection has been severely negatively impacted. Only rubbers can save us from idiots like this.

I'll tell you what, you gotta give happy an a+ on the entertainment factor.
Seriously about HIV.. I think the real stats would show the vast majority of aids cases can be directly attributed to gay and drug use maybe as high as 97,98%. It has to do with money. If they can make you believe all of us are at great risk, they can raise a hell of a lot more money then if they said, true non drug using heterosexuals have nothing to worry about.
If they came out with the truth, the money would dry up in a month.

actually catocony my mother claims immaculate conception

LL-

It would be comforting if 97.98% of the HIV infections resulted from MSMs and IVDUs, but according to 2008 US data, those groups (and their overlap) cover only 66% of cases. 33% involve heterosexual contact not involving IVDU or MSM. You'll be happy to know that for men, this figure drops to 16%, but still orders of magnitude higher than you guessed.

These are "real data" not something trumped up by the religious right to scare you or by some cabal of greedy scientists just making a case for more research money. There are at least three different surveys that are ongoing, and each is finding the same numbers. They include the Morbidity Monitoring Project, the National HIV Behavioral Surveillance System, and the HIV Testing Survey.

It's also worth noting that in most other countries, the rates of HIV infections attributed to heterosexual contact is higher than in the US.

BD
I think if you factor out the the hiv patients who lie about a gay affair or a fling with drugs it will go down even further. Obviously women heterosexuals are at a much greater risk because of the deposit of fluids. So like you said, speaking ONLY of male heterosexuals, who are truthful on the questionnaire it will be quite low.

Well, in these studies they do contact tracing, so they actually contact the sexual partners. The 16% figure might be slightly inflated, but not by much. And in Asia, the figure for heterosexual contact is substantially higher, with estimates between 30-42% for men.

Bwana: Do you know of any explanations as to the differences in heterosexual/other means of HIV transmission in Asia, Africa, US., etc. For example, why are heterosexual males apparently at a higher risk in Asia than many other places?

I have heard that factors such as prevalence of anal sex (in Africa for example, but not in Asia) and male circumcision can affect the overall HIV rates, but I can't come up with a reasonable hypothesis for the higher rates in Asia.

With respect to Africa, there is a recent study that concluded that Africans are more genetically pre-disposed to contract HIV. Apparently, a genetic development that helps protect them against malaria also makes them more vulnerable to HIV:

http://news.icm.ac.uk/science/african-malaria-gene-increases-hiv-risk/570/

I don't have an explanation for Asia, other than maybe education and information isn't as readily available. This would increase venereal diseases in general and males with sores, etc.. from other diseases are more likely to contract HIV.

Laguy,

There's tons of research on this issue. Not surprisingly, there are multiple factors involved. Some of theme are:
1) Men in some of these countries are regular clients of high risk sex workers. In many African and some Asian countries, men frequent prostitutes. In those countries, use of condoms is far less frequent. These men them infect their wives, etc.
2) In Africa, anal sex is very common, and it's well known that HIV is more easily spread during anal sex (tearing of non-lubricated tissue, etc.).
3) Also in Africa, circumcision is rare. Many studies have shown that circumcised men are less prone to infection.
4) The evidence on biological factors such as those mentioned by Lennox is a bit thinner, but there may well be some genetic differences affecting susceptibility.

Most of the evidence, though, points to behavioral factors: number and types of partners, specific sexual practices, and such.

Additionaly, ulcerative genital disease is more common the high HIV area like Africa. (Chancroid and HSV)

Well here is an interesting article that indicates somebody was fucking around with the monkeys! Possibly new meaning to "I'll be a monkey's Uncle

NEW YORK - The AIDS virus has been circulating among people for about 100 years, decades longer than scientists had thought, a new study suggests.

Genetic analysis pushes the estimated origin of HIV back to between 1884 and 1924, with a more focused estimate at 1908.

Previously, scientists had estimated the origin at around 1930. AIDS wasn't recognized formally until 1981 when it got the attention of public health officials in the United States.

The new result is "not a monumental shift, but it means the virus was circulating under our radar even longer than we knew," says Michael Worobey of the University of Arizona, an author of the new work.

The results appear in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature. Researchers note that the newly calculated dates fall during the rise of cities in Africa, and they suggest urban development may have promoted HIV's initial establishment and early spread.

Scientists say HIV descended from a chimpanzee virus that jumped to humans in Africa, probably when people butchered chimps. Many individuals were probably infected that way, but so few other people caught the virus that it failed to get a lasting foothold, researchers say.

But the growth of African cities may have changed that by putting lots of people close together and promoting prostitution, Worobey suggested. "Cities are kind of ideal for a virus like HIV," providing more chances for infected people to pass the virus to others, he said.

Perhaps a person infected with the AIDS virus in a rural area went to what is now Kinshasa, Congo, "and now you've got the spark arriving in the tinderbox," Worobey said.

Key to the new work was the discovery of an HIV sample that had been taken from a woman in Kinshasa in 1960. It was only the second such sample to be found from before 1976; the other was from 1959, also from Kinshasa.

Researchers took advantage of the fact that HIV mutates rapidly. So two strains from a common ancestor quickly become less and less alike in their genetic material over time. That allows scientists to "run the clock backward" by calculating how long it would take for various strains to become as different as they are observed to be. That would indicate when they both sprang from their most recent common ancestor.

The new work used genetic data from the two old HIV samples plus more than 100 modern samples to create a family tree going back to these samples' last common ancestor. Researchers got various answers under various approaches for when that ancestor virus appeared, but the 1884-to-1924 bracket is probably the most reliable, Worobey said.

The new work is "clearly an improvement" over the previous estimate of around 1930, said Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases in Bethesda, Maryland. His institute helped pay for the work.

Fauci described the advance as "a fine-tuning."

Experts say it's no surprise that HIV circulated in humans for about 70 years before being recognized. An infection usually takes years to produce obvious symptoms, a lag that can mask the role of the virus, and it would have infected relatively few Africans early in its spread, they said.

Yeah, the monkey connection has been known for a long time. The question has long been when, and which species of monkey did it start in? Most attention was focused on the African Green Monkey.

If you've ever been to Kinshasa, you could easily see why the AIDS epidemic might have got its start in humans there. Truly a hellhole. I believe that is where MBL's family comes from...

"Hey, they're medical professionals, so they know what's what, right?" lol dr.'s also smoke cigarettes even though they see first hand the negative effect. point blank people dont care

What exactly prompted reviving 3 different dead discussions regarding the same related topic? Are these public safety announcements????

LM,

you would have to start at the top and read some of the questionable comments to understand why several responses were given. If you have 15 minutes to waste you're welcome to confirm my observation.

CFK

I did not mean several responses in same thread, but 3 seperate threads revived that were put to sleep more then 1 to 2 years ago (this one in October 2008)....

For me this topic is simple - mongering has its risks. We all know it. We all know how STD's - from the easy to treat to the deadly form - are spread. We also know how to prevent this...a condom! Some of us use one, others do not - it is a personal choice of how much risk we are and are not willing to accept. Luck will sway towards some, while others will be cursed with their decision. Preaching about safety and telling someone else what they should do on this board is useless.....

Its not about preaching its about making mongering less of a risk, you get infected and help spread it! then fuck another chick or get a bbj without a care or bring it back home to infect people that have no part of mongering... LM im new to this forum and I guarantee you wouldn't be such an asshole in person lmao. its all good... spread disease as you please!

I always try and reside in the whatever-gets-you-there camp. After all, risks, safeguards, and consequences are well-known, unless you hid under your desk in 6th grade.

(Message edited by copperfieldkid on August 07, 2010)

CFK, it's the job of every newbie to educate everyone.

I can be plenty of an asshole in person as well....shyness is not one of my traits.

On this topic, however - even if you are new, I certainly would be more worried about someone mongering and NOT realizing that there are risks. It sounds like we need an STD education class as part of the sign-up process...

As far as your comment of "spread disease as you please!", now you know nothing about me and what diseases I have and don't have, I am spreading for someone else, or whatever....but even if I was doing so, again there should be no question about how to prevent getting something I, someone else, or even you spread.

Whatever decisions I make, are mine to make and nobody else's.... the same applies to you. No Soap Box on a mongering board is going to change that....sorry, that is just reality

LM,

Hence my warning not to waste your time in my earlier post. "start at the top and read some of the questionable comments...." Thanks for taking that 15 minutes I spoke about to confirm my observations.

_______Here's a great way to use one. - CFK


(Message edited by copperfieldkid on August 07, 2010)

There are tons of guys who bb in Rio, and AC among other places. Very few seem to report STD problems and who ever got HIV must have died and forgot to report it.

We all know the risks but clearly, just as with bbbj, the risks for those who are somewhat careful are evidently low.

Guys in AC are constantly reporting the clap, although I don't recall hearing anything worse than that. In Rio, either everyone keeps it real quiet or no one is catching much.

My guess is that bare backers keep it quiet. I... uhm... might... errr... one in a while... forget a condom and if I notice any first signs, I head straight to a Manson or Mercury pharmacy for 1000mg zithromax and 400mg cefixeme.

I don't care how "careful" your are. You are going to find some crotch crud somewhere, sometime and a condom is between 40% to 80% effective at preventing clap.

And I'll bet that EVERY ONE OF US board members HAS Herpes and/or HPV but are asymptomatic.

And always remember that HIV CAN BE caught from straight sex, maybe not easily but IT CAN AND DOES.

Know your risks, mitigate as best as you can and make informed decisions. Then go have fun.

Sorry for preaching

I used to buy things like Zithromax and self-medicate, but there is nothing wrong with seeing a real doctor to get the prescription.

I think the condom is a lot more then 40-80% effective. I can fill up one of these Trojans with an insane amount of water without seeing so much as a leak. I can tie one on to a heavy weight and fling it around without so much as a tear. In the ole days, condoms were not so good, but condoms manufactured in the last several years are tough as nails. If your condoms are breaking and bursting, I am wondering what you are doing exactly. I have not had one burst or break in many years.

Just because there is a lack of reporting about STDs does not mean its not there. How many guys would be willing to raise their hand and explain on a message board that they just contracted something? There is an old saying that "Dead men tell no tales". Many guys will never admit to having just contracted a disease. What is more likely is they just disappear off the message board versus making a detailed report that they just contracted HIV...

(Message edited by Portege on August 09, 2010)

We all have HPV - or should - since 50% of the general public does. I'll argue against herpes (except the mouth kind, which, again, almost everyone has) since an active outbreak is infrequent and it would be very bad luck to pick it up from a single encounter.

One important thing is selecting your venue. I generally have no problems barebacking, in Rio, in a termas since the girls are definitely tested and examined on a very frequent basis. A girl working the street somewhere isn't, a freelancer in a club or bar isn't, agency girls may or not be.

Barebacking a R$31 garota at VM isn't a great idea. Not because she's cheap, but because at that price, gynecology exams aren't on the house and neither are blood tests.

I have met few experienced mongers that do not bareback along the way at some point. The newbies I meet, start with fear and cover all, then slowly progress to BBBJ and eventually to bareback.

While I certainly have fear of catching something....I am 100% convinced that it is practically impossible to catch anything serious via a BBBJ.

Lets take those terma girls Catocony mentions....there are some girls working in 4x4 that have been on the block for many years...give BBBJ to almost everyone, but yet continue to pass blood tests. I know there are sceptics out there, but they definitely test... Probably mostly due to self interest, girls passing diseases (especially serious ones) is not good for business in a terma.

From an STD fear perspective, I only really fear two - HIV and Herpes. HPV, like mentioned above, is so common that even if you do not monger the chances are good you will catch it at some point in an active sex life. The rest, thankfully, is still treatable...... Haven't heard much about Hepatitis, so don't have much data on that.

While barebacking that R$31 girl in VM is a very bad idea, I would not think twice about a BBBJ. But interestingly enough, all the low end girls and places in Rio that I have been to insist on a condom for everything, including BJ (Just look at some of the dirt bags these girls have to fuck). As you go up in the price chain, including the terma's, that seems to get more relaxed.

LM-

I generally agree, but I'll confess that I've received plenty of BBBJs from girls in real-a-minute privês around Rio.

Reading this thread through for the first time, I'm encouraged as to how many reporters here are at least largely committed to condom use for intercourse. I'm also pleasantly surprised to learn that most of the destinations, apparently aside from LOS and perhaps Brazil, are populated by sex workers and industry norms that dictate condom use - in some cases as a relatively new norm as some reported about AC.

I am also therefore shocked and somewhat disturbed that Tijuana then appears to be a location where bareback full service is about the most readily available - that is when you remove 2 of the most common venues for Americans from the equation, Adelita Bar and Street Girls. Most of the AB chicas and SGs still insist on condoms even for BJs with most of their clients, but economic desperation is slowly eroding even their formerly stalwart attitudes. TJ mongers who venture away from AB and SGs find bareback sex quite readily available. Certainly far from universally available, but a monger who insists on bareback sex will have very little trouble finding it among the chicas working the locals bars.

I did have a friend who was absolutely nothing but heterosexual who died of AIDS a couple of years ago, but it's impossible to trace the source. He lived in TJ and had a penchant for playing with the "walkers" - i.e. drug addicted chicas either deported from the U.S. or running from the U.S. LE in most cases, who are TJs equivalent to L.A.'s crack whores - they'll do anything with anybody for next to nada and never give a thought to condoms - and are sought out in part due to their allergies to latex. Of course they are operating 100% outside the health regulatory system fwiw. However, my friend also traveled to LOS and Cambodia a couple of times a year. Nobody can say where he picked up the virus. He is indeed a most rare statistic.

I use condoms about 97% of the time for intercourse - alarming because the percentage was 100% of the time until a few years ago when the TJ gals just started making it too easy for the willpower to fail on occasions. I never thought I'd see the day when I'd have to travel to the likes of China, Jakarta and Colombia to find a reduced challenge to my willpower for using condoms.

It is concerning for sure as I know plenty of TJ mongers who are out of play for covered anything almost all the time (maybe cave in now and then to a special chica with rules hoping they can eliminate the rule with repeat business), and I know at least a couple of dudes who bareback the skanky walkers and then manage to pull off the same with a few of the finest chicas at Adelita Bar...thus potentially blurring the risk line between the most notorious risk takers and those most relied on to exercise the highest standards of personal care. I don't have to wonder about where that gets us and I am waiting for the bad news of STD outbreaks like we've never seen in TJ. But the dam seems to be holding so far...mas o menos.

Erip,
It is so rare to hear from a board member that has direct knowledge of a monger who succumbed to AIDs that I wonder if you would be willing to share a bit more info.

Normally it takes number of years for someone who has tested positive for HIV to develop full-blown AIDs (I have read that some HIV+ patients never develop the disease). How long did it take your friend to go from HIV diagnosis to developing AIDs symptoms?

Also, with today’s drug regimens many people with AIDs can live for many years before actually dying from the disease. Did your friend have access to first world medical care? If so, how long was he able to live with the disease and what was his quality of life during this time.

I apologize if these questions are too personal and I fully understand if you don't wish to share this info; but I think it would be a service to this board if you could share any first-hand knowledge that you might have.

Regardless, please accept my condolences for the loss of your friend.


H1

Yes, my condolences as well.

While there may be more than meets the eye and one can debate risk and probability, the bottom line is that regardless of how unlikely an event is, some one/where manages to draw the short straw.

I'll be happy to share what I know. Other prominent CH members also knew this individual and may be able to fill in some of the blanks or what I have just plain forgotten in the time since he passed. Since I'm giving details of his life and disease, I don't want to identify him by name. He was close friends with many of the old time TJ posters going back to ASPT and on through Redsnake and this site when it was focused on TJ, but he says he didn't follow the boards and didn't post.

He was living it seemed very happily in Tijuana with a local wife and her considerable collection of young children. I don't recall if she was an ex-pro who may have brought a degree of risk to their bedroom, but I strongly doubt that she was a drug user (see below). The last few times I saw him he discussed being ill and I believe he went into a TJ hospital and was diagnosed with pneumonia. He raved about the high quality of treatment he thought he received and was ready to purchase health insurance policies for himself, his wife and her kids who he had adopted or was thinking about adopting. He believed he was cured and could not have been happier about the medical care he received in the Tijuana hospital.

He was always a skinny dude and nobody noticed any difference in his appearance or his high energy level.

Suddenly, not more than 2 months and perhaps less after the last time I saw him when he was raving about how great his treatment was, I heard he had died of AIDS. Under those circumstances, the shock and tragedy felt amplified. He had been taken to the TJ hospital when he fell ill, and they realized that he was in deep. He was transferred to a hospital in San Diego and passed away, reportedly without even ever knowing that he had full blown AIDS much less HIV.

I have never seen or heard of a case like this where a person went from apparent good health to being an AIDS statistic in a matter of weeks. One can only suspect that he walked around with HIV for a long time, never got checked, and wrote off occurrences of signature illnesses like pneumonia to being just that and nothing more, and generally just one of those tough hard shell individuals full of positive energy who puts up with illness and feeling bad without complaint or concern. So no awareness, no treatment, no obvious signs such as rapid weight loss, and a rapid descent.

I believe he was in his 40's - just a guess as his age never came up. His vibrant personality never diminished until his final short illness.

As I mentioned, he was traveling to LOS and one or two other Asian destinations for no more than a few weeks per year. He quieted his TJ mongering when he hooked up with his new family, but still dove in once in awhile with SGs and the high risk walkers.

I heard from others that perhaps he had a history of out of control drug use, but that certainly was not the case during the last 3 years of his life when I knew him much better than before. Others here knew him better before I got to know him well. I knew him as a sort of anti-drug crusader who had applied tough love to a very darling heroin addicted SG who is to this day, also an amiga to me. I know that without a doubt she loved him with all her heart, but he would not tolerate her cycles of addiction and finally moved on when she abandoned her rehab.

No doubt this is a very anomalous case and critical details are still unknown to me.

I would never even think about bb in TJ. There is something about that place that just says "sleaze."

My bb have been with providers in the US: two in particular. Risky but I'd seen them a couple of times and they picked me rather than me picking them. (I hope they are as selective with their other bb clients, but of course they swear there aren't others).

I might consider bb in Rio. Terma's are classy places, but of course the girls work outside and come from faevelas so that is risky too.

Wish we had some useful statistics for our locations but we don't.

Statistics don't really matter.... it is matter of (bad) luck...some will be fine fucking BB 100 times over, while for others it might just be one wrong encounter. I think there is alot we do not know about HIV....I think some people just have a natural tendency to fight off the virus, while others are more receptive...who the hell knows in which camp we fall.

In the end - we all know the risk, we all make our own choices...and (hopefully) we all know how to prevent it.

Now, one personal statistic I can share - there is a very high chance that you will catch Chlamydia if you BB.

Personally, for privacy and ease, I use the HIV quick test kit available in CVS for peace of mind. I check myself every six month or so. Well worth the $50 to reassure myself....Worrying about having caught something can really mess with your head, better to know either way.

I reached a peak in BB a couple of years ago, but since then pretty much have gone back to covering each time. At this point I am more worried about my significant other and don't want to put her at risk. But, BBBJ is still a Non-negotiable, since I am 100% convinced the risk are just too low worry about it.