Cause: Three viruses that infect the liver: Hepatitis A Virus (HAV), Hepatitis B Virus (HBV), and Hepatitis C Virus (HCV).

Incubation Period: Symptoms start showing in three to 20 weeks (5 months) after you first get infected by the virus.

Transmission: HAV is found in feces (stool, shit). You can get it from someone by anal contact. That is, by rimming them with your mouth, or, for example by being exposed to their stool through food. Like if a restaurant worker doesn't wash their hands after taking a dump.

You can get HBV by being exposed to the bodily fluids of someone who already has it. These bodily fluids include blood (for example, sharing needles when shooting up drugs), semen, vaginal secretions, breast milk, and saliva. Because of this, it's easy to pass HBV from parents to children, too.

Risky sexual activities include insertive and receptive oral sex (blow jobs, rimming, and cunnilingus), anal sex, and vaginal sex. Unless bodily fluids are exchanged, you can't get viral hepatitis from foreplay, fondling, massaging, or hugging someone, and even kissing seems to be low risk.

What to Look For: In the first stage of hepatitis infection, there are the symptoms of nausea, vomiting, stomach pain, and headaches. These symptoms aren't unique to viral hepatitis, so it's hard to know if you have it just from these signs. Your health provider can do blood tests to see if you really have it or not.

In the next stage, all the lymph nodes in your body swell ("swollen glands"), and liver damage occurs. There is a lot of pain on the right side of the belly. Usually, a person's eyes and skin turn yellow. This is a sign that the liver isn't working very well.

Treatment: In the last stage of hepatitis, a person recovers from the disease. It just takes a lot of rest to get back to normal, but there may be permanent liver damage. A recovering person may also feel tired all the time. Also, in hepatitis B and hepatitis C, some people have "chronic active" hepatitis. This is where the infection continues throughout their life until the liver fails. They will need a liver transplant to get better. And others may carry the virus and infect others, but not have symptoms themselves.

You can get vaccinated against HBV, and this is done in children all the time now. Ask your health provider if you don't know whether or not you've been vaccinated.

There are medications that health providers can give to patients for the long-term problems with viral hepatitis. 'Interferon' and 'lamivudine' are the names of two drugs that help you fight off the virus. But the disease usually just has to run its course, and the medication doesn't always work very well. New medications are being tested, but nothing is 100% certain.

Complications: If the liver is so damaged that it just can't work, then it is possible that the infected person will die. A transplant can save their lives. A very damaged liver can also cause bleeding from the stomach, as well as injury to the kidneys, lungs, and brain. Some people have "chronic" hepatitis, which means that they have an infection for the rest of their lives, and never totally get over it.

Also, the viruses that cause viral hepatitis can cause cancer of the liver, and it's not all that rare!

When travelling in Latin America one needs to be aware of the 'other' three forms of Hepatitis. Hepatitis-D(elta) is alot like both B&C. There is another strain usually found only in the Southern Hemisphere identified as Hepatitis-E. It's alot like Hep-A but gives a negative on the test for Hep-A. I picked this one up in Ecuador and was damned sick for months. There is also a Hep-G but I don't know much about it. Wrap that rascal good.
East_Coast_Juan

Something you do not want. How common can it be is the Zone?

I know that there are three types, A, B & C. None of them are what you want. What is the risk?

I know of two people who have contracted one or the other types.
My brother is gay and he got it over 20 years ago.
My wife shot junk and got it over 20 years ago too.
I know that I have been exposed to my wife's blood (No I am not OJ) and do not believe that I have contracted the virus. However after she confided that she had Hep I quit donating blood.

Anyone know the risks of this very nasty bug in the zone?

Elcodo
You can get shots for hep A and B. A is two shots, B is three shots.
There is no shots available for C.
There is always a risk when screwing any female.

What is the incubation period for the various flavors of hepatitis?

A is not life threatening unless you have another pre-existing liver disease, such as C or alcoholism. A is aquired by contaminated food. Travelers to Mexico and other underdeveloped countries should be immunized for A. A series of immunizations gives the best result but even a few weeks after the first shot substantial protection is present. B is a worse disease and it is a sexually transmitted disease, as well as a drug addict's disease. 90% recover but 5% become carriers and 5% more develop cirhossis over 20 years and die or receive transplantation. The disease reoccurs in transplant receipients. There is a new treatment using lamuvidine which is a drug for HIV for surpression of B that looks pretty good.
One should be immunized against B before having sex with the residents of Mexico IMHO. In years gone by when gonnorhea was the STD of the day doctors gave men tetracycline capsules or penecillin shots as they left a military base on leave on a Friday night. In like manner I wonder if taking a med like combivir for HIV might not reduce the risk of transmission of this and Hep B as well. But I have never found any preventive approach to the risk of these viral STDs.

Actually, immunization is a very successful model of "preventive approach" for viral infections (cf. smallpox). There is an effective vaccine against Hepatitis B.

Furthermore, I believe that using condoms, limiting number of sex partners, and not having sex with partners when you have no idea of their STD status are also excellent examples of a preventive approach against viral STD's.

Whether a particular individual chooses to apply the "preventive approach" is really the question, is it not?

SittingBull wrote:

"B is a worse disease and it is a sexually transmitted disease, as well as a drug addict's disease. 90% recover but 5% become carriers"

Last week I went to Kaiser for a physical and asked the doc for Hep vac shots... He asked if I wanted A (from food) or B (from sex).. I said sex... He said he wanted to first test for "antibodies" as I may already be immune to B...

Question: If a person tests "immune" to B. Does that make him (or her) a carrier? How do they test to see if a person is a carrier?

ag

", limiting number of sex partners, and not having sex with partners when you have no idea of their STD status are also excellent examples of a preventive approach against viral STD's.

Good. That probably describes most of us!

AG:

Hepatitis serology panels and interpretation are a complicated affair. Bottom line, there are different antibodies and antigens that can be tested for to see if you are never infected, past infected and immune, or currently infected (chronic carrier).

Your doctor probably will order a test for hepatitis B surface antibody. It is only one test and it is relatively cheap which is Kaiser's goal in the first place (to save on three doses of an expensive vaccine, if possible). If it is positive you are immune to hepatitis B. If it is negative, and you have no high risk factors for acquiring hep B infection, I would say it means with about 99.9% probablility that you have never had hep B and should get vaccinated.

The other tiny remaining probability is that the surface antibody is negative because you got infected and never mounted an immune response so you are a chronic carrier. If you have specific risk factors, such as MSM or IDU history, the probability of hep B infection obviously will be higher.

The way to test for carrier status is via hep B surface antigen (not antibody). If it is present (positive) you are a carrier. If it is negative you either never had hep B or or you got infected, mounted an immune response, cleared the infection and are now immune (and surface antibody will then be postive. See? Yin and yang.) It is likely that your doctor did not order this test because of such a small probability of a positive test.

There are other antigens and antibodies that can be checked that give different information but not really necessary to go into here.

Bet you are sorry you asked.

Almost...

So if you tested negative and were vaccinated . . .?

I thought there was a "titer" test to see if you were now immune? I got the vacs, but never the follow-up titer.

Yes the surface antibody test is the test for immunity, whether you are talking about wild virus infection or immunization.

The test is not currently recommended after immunization because studies show that greater than 95% will mount a suitable immune response after taking the full series of three shots, so mass screening for immunity after vaccination will not provide a lot of information and is not cost effective.

Is hepatitis curable? and which of the hepatitis can you get that is transmited by having sex?

A now scared guy

What scares me is stories from mongers about chicas swabing fecal matter out of mongers butts with their tongue... Guess we each have our own idea of what's safe or less risky...

There are groups I stumbled across on the net showing pictures of people eating shit & smearing it all over their bodies... Doesn't do a thing for me personally... Talk about Hep City!

I just can't get around the thought of a tongue that has just licked shit then licking my dick... On the other hand most would think I'm insane for doing a favorite "working girl" sin condon...
ag

well, i'm a med school guy, so maybe i can answer that ok
if your going to gamble, letting a chica lick your ass or blow your cock is way safer than lots of things you could do (anal sex sin condom, regular sex sin condom, or licking the chica's ass)
Hepatitis C is the worst form of Hepatitis, and like AIDS, is incurable. It IS 100,000 times more contagious (easier to get) than AIDS. The virus is smaller than the AIDS virus and much more prolific in body fluids. It is possible, but unlikely the virus can get through a latex condom. You should be scared. Like being appropriately scared of a great white shark, being scared of this virus might prompt you to take respectful measures, like wearing a condom at all times.

Hepatitis C is a bloodborne disease, it is not found in sexual fluids in any appreciable degree, and is generally not considered a sexually transmitted disease, unless one is exposed to contaminated blood during sex. A prospective study of discordant heterosexual couples (male has hep C, female does not) shows seroconversion of about 1% per year of regular (meaning continuing periodic) sexual activity among these couples. Simply put, that is a rather inefficient STD, or not really an STD at all. If you have literature to back up your statistics please share the citations, as I would clearly be in dire need of CME. If you want to avoid Hep C stop sharing those needles and try to avoid partners who are into needles because they are far and away the most likely to be carrying Hep C. You might also want to avoid blood transfusions outside of the first world.

Now if you are talking about Hepatitis B instead of Hep C, then I could agree with most of what you said (the stuff about it being much more contagious than HIV and much easier to contract through sex). Of course, it does not produce a chronic infection very often when contracted as an adult, and more importantly, there is a vaccine to protect against it.

The concern over analingus is mainly a concern about Hepatitis A. It is spread through fecal oral transmission only. Which is why eating food handled by someone who never heard of washing after wiping is the more common scenario for outbreaks here in the U.S. In sexual transmission you basically have to get an infected persons doodie in your mouth. That means sticking your tongue in their asshole or somehow getting virus on your hands (or on another body part and then to your hands) and finally to your mouth. Outbreaks of Hep A via sexual transmission have not been reported outside of the gay male population. Presumably more buttplay including analingus in that population compared to the heteros. There is a vaccine against Hep A, so pay whatever it costs and erase one more fear from your mind. If you are not vaccinated, I would be more fearful of what I ate in Mexico than who I ate in Mexico, but try some soap and water after sex and you'll be amazed at the results.

I will agree that Hep C is the "worst" form of viral hepatitis, if you mean it presents the highest risk for causing chronic serious liver disease in an individual who contracts it and that it will present by far the most demands financially and service-wise on our health care system compared to other forms of viral hepatitis. However, it is far from a TJ monger's primary concern.

By the way, with a six month course of interferon and ribavarin, about half of people with chronic active hepatitis C can go into remission, so I also don't agree that "like AIDS, it is incurable".

Shy Guy

Test results were negative for A & B (antibodies) so I'm going in early next week to start the shot series.. Amazing I haven't caught A from eating at all the US fast food restaurants where they prepare spicy chicken sandwichs bare handed... Isn't there a state law requiring they wear the gloves? Oh well, time to call channel 2 again, hehe
ag

go ahead, do it without a condom, i'll see you in the waiting room while your scratching all over trying to sooth your itchy yellow ass.
People always say the same shit about AIDS (bloodborne, not in sexs fluids blah blah blah)
Also, if your licking Mexican ass there is a lot of nasty stuff you can get (good old Giardia, for one)
it's better to be overly concerned and always use a condom than to risk it and regret it later.
I've yet to see any patient "cured" of Hep C. Sure, miracles can happen, but the virus is still there even after treatment, regardless of remission.
What's really got me pissed is your suggestion that only homos and men have hep. C. Most of patients I know with Hep C. are female, and most got it through sex with a straight male who shoots up. There is NO vaccine or way to cure Hep. C. You challenge me to show citations, where are yours showing men don't get Hep C from women?
(BoysLife magazine don't count.)
Personally, people who want to be deluded into a false sense of invulnerability will...
the Hep C virus does not discriminate based on sex anymore than AIDS does. If I stepped on anybody's toes here, sorry, I'm passionate about this stuff, it's my job.
See you in the exam room.

"People always say the same shit about AIDS (bloodborne, not in sexs fluids blah blah blah)"

Who says that? Certainly not I.

What's really got me pissed is your suggestion that only homos and men have hep. C.

Where did I suggest such a thing? You need to work on reading comprehension. I did say (not suggest, but state as fact) that, "Outbreaks of Hep A via sexual transmission have not been reported outside of the gay male population." Key words: Hep A, sexual transmission, gay male. Now you will say that you know plenty of females and straight males who have had Hep A, and I will say again that you are a poor reader and need to review the key words of the sentence.

"Most of patients I know with Hep C. are female, and most got it through sex with a straight male who shoots up."

It is the "through sex" part of the above statement that I must vehemently disagree with. If what you say is true you should definitely publish your findings as they will come as a great surprise to the academic community studying Hep C.

"You challenge me to show citations, where are yours showing men don't get Hep C from women?"

I never made a statement that explicitly said "men don't get Hep C from women", so again--remedial english course, please. I did suggest that sexual transmission of Hep C is extremely low, both from male to female and presumably even lower from female to male. Here are three references (of many):

Bresters, D, et al. Sexual transmission of hepatitis C virus. Lancet 1993 Jul 24;342(8865):210-211

Brettler, DB, et al. The low risk of hepatitis C virus transmission among sexual partners of hepatitis C-infected hemophilic males: an international, multicenter study. Blood 1992 Jul 15;80(2):540-543

Gordon, SC, et al. Lack of evidence for the heterosexual transmission of hepatitis C. American Journal of Gastroenterology 1992 Dec;87(12):1849-1851

Sorry, my subscription to Boy's Life ran out recently, so I had to rely on "tabloids" like the Lancet, and the American Journal of Gastrolenterology instead. Now, are you willing to share your references?

"I've yet to see any patient "cured" of Hep C. Sure, miracles can happen, but the virus is still there even after treatment, regardless of remission."

This is the only part of my previous post that I wanted to take a step back on and readdress my point. The only thing about this part that really set me off is when you stated that Hep C was incurable, "just like AIDS." I think the parallel is a poor one. HIV will eventually prove fatal in about 100% of cases without anti-retroviral therapy. Whether therapy will prove effective enough to control the infection for life remains to be seen. However, when therapy is effective it must be continued forever on a very strict hourly timetable. Once therapy is stopped the virus very quickly returns.

This is not the case with Hep C. First of all, about 15-20% of people who have been infected (have antibodies) never show signs of the virus at any time so presumably they have cleared the virus from their body spontaneously. Of the 80% that do show signs of chronic infection, only about 15% of them ever develop clinical or laboratory signs of chronic hepatitis. These are the folks that are eligible for interferon therapy, and although I may have been overly optimistic with my statement of half of patients going into remission, it is nevertheless true that a significant minority of those treated will go into remission with a six month course of therapy. Some these people have relapsed in a relatively short time, some people have stayed in remission with no additional treatment for up to five years now. It is true that the virus is still in the body in some of these successful treatment cases, because when patients who have gone into Hep C remission have gotten liver transplants due to preexisting extensive liver damage and are put on chronic immunosuppressive agents so as to not reject their new liver, the Hep C virus often returns. Whether it is true that no one ever clears the virus from their body after treatment is not for sure, in my opinion.

Anyway, my point was that in regards to natural history and treatment, there are more differences than similarities when it comes to HIV and Hep C. The impact on an individual and their family when one gets a diagnosis of one or the other is completely different, and I felt that to cavalierly throw them in the same basket was irresponsible.

"the Hep C virus does not discriminate based on sex anymore than AIDS does."

This is one of the few, if not only, statements you made that we are in complete agreement on. It is interesting to me that you imply that I have suggested something different. I am wondering where in my last post that occurred.

"go ahead, do it without a condom, i'll see you in the waiting room while your scratching all over trying to sooth your itchy yellow ass."

What the fuck triggered that response? Did I (or anyone else for that matter) promote condomless sex?

Wolfvgang, in the two years I have been involved as an infrequent poster on Redsnake and TJHombre, I have never been involved in flaming, but this is the first time I have ever replied feeling really angry. I have cooled down a lot in the hour or so I have been typing, but I am still kind of hot. I will tell you why.

First of all, you were somewhat flip and disrespectful in your reply. That is ironic coming from someone who has demonstrated that you read very poorly, and coming from someone who has demonstrated that you have a great deal of misinformation about the topics you are discussing. If you have had the education and training you say you have, that is really a shame.
But this is not the main reason I am upset.

I am upset because most of the readers on this board are laypeople without any special type of healthcare or medical education. Many of these folks really do care about their health, they are concerned about these types of diseases, and I feel I owe it to them to disseminate accurate information, in return for all the entertaining and useful mongering info I read here. It is the main contribution I try to make to this mongering community. While you and I are having our semi-academic arguments (semi because it is only academic on one side of the argument) readers are being exposed to bad and conflicting info and may well become confused as to what we really do know or don't know about disease X and what is true and what is false. That really bugs me.

Now, my anonymity is extremely important to me, therefore I have no intention to share any of my bona fides that could in anyway connect to my true identity. Therefore, I have zero credibility as a purveyor of medical information on this board. That is fine. With regards to what I post, any reader can take it or leave it.

You on the other hand, have posted more than once that you are a "med school type". This may lead lay readers to think you know what you are talking about, and that is scary. People in the medical community have a special responsibility to disseminate accurate, measured, relevant, and appropriate information. Your communication style is imprecise, and your information is not totally accurate.

Study for those boards, friend. A refresher course in epidemiology would be helpful. Probably, not your fault though. Medical schools across the country do a notoriously bad job in teaching that science.

"See you in the exam room."

No thanks, not in yours. I would rather go to a provider that pays attention to details.

Shy Guy

BTW, full abstracts for the references I listed are available on Pubmed.

Thanks Shy Guy for taking the time to clear this topic up (not that your previous post wasn't clear enough)..

Shy Guy

You have been putting out great info on these boards quit some time now. You have much more credibility then just about anyone else posting about health topics here.

Thanks, Dimone

OK, OK ShyGuy, I stand corrected.
I apologize for the flame.
I did read some of your post incorrectly, and hasitly jumped to conclusions. I think I confused your post with someone else's I read earlier.
I still disagree with some of your info academically, as academics will disagree (otherwise why do the research?) but I'm dropping that because I realize I have lost much credibility due to my rash flame. You did clarify some of the points admirably. I also probably went too far in giving up some anonymity.
I only wish to assure you that I give much more attention to my face to face interactions than I do to this mongering board.
So with that apology, I'm out of this one and back to the chicas
Thank you for you classy response and the good example in posting.
-----------------
"Some days your the pigeon, some days your the statue"

Wolfvgang:

I appreciate your latest reply. It does show admirable character that you did not take the easy road and escalate this into a full-fledged flame war.

I also would like to extend an apology as well, as my last post did contain quite a bit more ardor than is usual for me.

No hard feelings from this end.

Shy Guy

Wolfvgang- I was doing this nurse in my girl friends car, parked out front the local med library in La Jolla, when security hangs a ticket on the windshield. The nurse and I both smile at him and waited till he leaves to resume our act of passion. We were both in the ...ah ...anyway, I forget to pay the ticket and ...never mind, it loses something in the translation.

God, let's all hope that Shy Guy is not Dr. Warhol, Andy's psychotic brother that managed to get through med school on Andy's money and gay sex with his professors. I met him at the Holistic Sexuallity Wellness And Other Behavioral Disorders clinic in Escondido. If this is the case, just his presence here will ...oh, fuck, I don't know. I just hope that Giadelli thing doesn't eat the enamel off my teeth. I'd be fucked without this beautiful smile. It's the only game I got goin' on.

Actually, that's not true. As I was walking up to the door of the e-net cafe, I noticed this really sexy young woman waiting on the corner. I walked over to her and said, "I'm WasabiMas, your blind date." She laughed and said, "Nice try, how often doe it work." I said, "Never." I lied.

She said that her boyfriend was inside and she was waiting for him. Hmmm. I told her that I was about to spend an hour on a really interesting site that covers the many aspects of prostitution in a few Latin America countries, Canada, and Asia. Though we really don't get into Canada that much, I couldn't resist dragging the kanuks into it. I have my own disturbed reasons for this.

I also explained a variety of incidents and the SOP behind the posting of information. I cited examples of the work done from the information gathered here by people that I've introduced to this board. Some of that work is still unexplainable.

She wanted me to tell her more. I'm pretty sure she was feeling some arousal. Sure, repulsed, perverse, it is still a flow of hormones and could lead to some pretty freaky sex. It reminded me of the aroused nineteen year old I verbally seduced and abandoned in the Wal-mart parking lot in suburban Fort Worth, two months ago. I had that girl whining and panting as I told her what I wanted to do to her if she permitted me to take her to my car. I lost interest and did some Christmas shopping for the family. So, I have audacity going for me -in a big way.

So, this hepitis thing is serious. Right on -watch out for accidental needle sticks. No, I didn't say needle-dicks, this time. Now, I wonder if it crosses the placenta membrane thing. Gee, that'd be a fucked way to come into the world -a dying mother and a killer virus. Life is hard on the little things.

Since the person I met outside the e-cafe tonight might read this, I haven't given that part of this post the usual WasabiMas kick. But, I'm sure many of you can use your own sick imagination to color that world. She was so very hot.

As someone who used to suffer (and still does to some extent) from the same disease, let me tell ya buddy- you are starving for attention.
-Jose

PS: What ever happened to good old fashioned chica reviews, trip stories, and general TJ/chica/Espanol info?

PPS: What the hell does these posts have to do with Hepatitis?

OH MY GOD!!!!! I just realized my last post could be read as an admission that I used to suffer from Hepatitus! LOL!!!! Err, I meant the disease of "starving for attention."
-Jose

PS: C-man and Porker, does this mean we wont share a room any more?

Clever. But, I suffer from ...I forgot. No, wait... I think it is ...misanthropy, I must say.

I'm not quite to the misanthropic stage, but I do feel a certain level of contempt for my fellow man. Men. People. Whatever. It's been one of those days...

On a happier note... Shy Guy, I, too, would like to thank you, Dr. Dick, and the other medical professionals (or so you [that's a "royal you"] claim) for the information you have shared with us over the years.

While most of the information you (another "royal you") post is available elsewhere on the net, I know that most people don't take, or have, the time to look it up, to their detriment and that of those they are intimate with.

I'd also like to remind my fellow readers of this fine message board: don't take anything for granted. That includes your life style, relatives, friends, health, and KNOWLEDGE. All of us care with us some false ideas about the world we live in, and we never bother to determine the validity of those ideas.

As someone once said, "Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups."

Someone told me the other day that school kids are given hepatitis "B" vaccinations as this is one of the strongest ones out there living 18 hours on surfaces of objects... The medical profession tells us the main avenue of transmission is through sex or sharing needles.

If this is true, why would they be giving the vaccine to school kids? Are they having sex & shooting up?

Does anyone know if B is more contagious than we are generally advised? I got my first in the series of A/B shots last week, free @ Kaiser (is anything free @ Kaiser?)... The arm was a little sore for a day or so, but no side effects..
ag

AG
Free you're lucky, I paid over $150 for my last shot of Hep A and B the other day.

AG, in CA you are required to have completed the HEP-A and -B series of innoculations before you can advance to the 7TH grade and all students are given a reminder letter from the schools in the 5TH and 6TH grades to make sure that these shots are up to speed before they can advance to Jr. High/Middle-School. There are lots of public health agencies that also give these shots to adults at no-charge or minimal charge($5).
If you know someone else that needs these shots make sure to encourage them to get them.
LLFO
S

Shorts, do you happen to know where to get them in TJ? I'm wondering if the "providers" of the card carrying, monthly checking variety are required to get them. Or if they can get them at the same clinic for a small price.

An SG I was with a couple of months ago had a vacination mark on her arm that was fresh. I asked what it was for but could not tell if she said hepatitus or tetinus.. I was wondering if she stepped on a nail, or was worried about what she could catch from being "nailed"., hehe
ag

AG, the thing to do is check at the many doctor offices in TJ. I don't get much medical work done in MX, but I'm sure if you go to the computer e-mail/DR office near 3rd & Constitucion you will get some straight answers. Right now I'm coming down with Hayfever or a Cold so I'm rot uf to speed with being a totally "dedicated" monger.
LLFO
S
By the way, I would not trust any doctor on either side of the border on a first trip to set me up with a vacination program for Hep-a or -b.

I got Hepatitis from my ex. She is a former-wanna-be-model and retired Mission Valley hotel prostitute that has never quite overcome the horrible insecurity she felt as the youngest of four girls in the scariest of alcoholic families.

I guess Marie was riding bare-back, back in those days. Now a psyD, here in California, she still has problems with trading sex for other compensation -a 'self actualized' woman that is still using her 'hot pocket' to get things she wants. I'd always hoped she'd write a series of books with suffex titles like; Travel Made Easy -On Your Back, A Savy Womans Guide Book, or, Escrow- On Your Back, Home Owning Made Easy Fopr The Easy Woman, or, Revenge -On Your Back, or, Your Third Divorce And Lost Child Custody Trial -On Your Back, Dodge Legal Fee's By Laying Down. But, I just don't think she's got the depth of character to write anything but ...whatever she writes to 'bill-out' her clients. She' pretty ugly, all over.

My question is: Can I sue her for giving me her disease? Feel free to call me at 390-72-7744.

Real funny, Marie. Did you tell 'Bruce' what happened, before he got there? Like, I care not. Do words like 'Kidnapping' or 'Extortion,' cast even a small shadow on you greatness. You made a better waitress.