I will be in MDE solo from Dec 29 to Jan 20. Staying at Torre Pablado. If anyone wants to get together, let me know. AZ

Sniper

Sounds good, I'll bring the wine!!! LOL

AZ, I'll be there as well in December-January timeframe as well.

I'll be there around Xmas returning the 2nd week of January.

Will be in Cartegena, first time, around Thanksgiving time. Let me know if you'll be there.

Sniper,
I have been following your posts for a little while. What happened with the apartment? I also see you are planning on moving there. How did you come up with your budget numbers? Did you consider costs of return trips to the USA?

Biggy,

Often when sellers find out a Gringo is involved, the price goes up.

I basically get pissed when I have someone trying to play games.

Then something cool happened, I found out that I can get a nice place for about $400 a month. So I don't really need to own afterall.

I am moving to Medellin possibly at the end of next year, depending if I can wrap up my business. I will at least make several long trips down there to get everything set up.

I also need to set up a "Rentista" Visa, which may or may not get approved. What I will do is do 3 months on and 3 months off if I can't get a Visa.

I have run my portfolio in a "Monte Carlo" simulation, which is used by Financial Planners to map the performance of your portfolio against the markets. This gives you a probability of success of your portfolio being able to sustain a withdrawl rate over time.

I can spend $25K a year (adjusted 3% for inflation per year) for 45 years (I'll be 85). I did not put in the simulation that I would work at all, but I know I will for about $400 to $500 per month. This may come from the US or perhaps a small business, I am not totally clear on that yet.

The result is that I would have a 96.5% chance of success if I retired today. If I increased the amount to $30K a year, the success probability drops to 86.75%

My budget is as follows:

Net Income
Investment $1,733
Employment $400
$2,133

Household Expenses
Rent $500
Cell Phone $100
Internet & TV $100
VOIP $50
Utilities $100
Miscellaneous $100
$950

Living Expenses
Transportation $100
Groceries $150
$250

Entertainment
Dining Out $200
Movies $25
Other $300
$525

Financial
Life Insurance $300
Health Insurance $100
Home Insurance $20
$420

DEFICIT $(12)

I did not include travel because I have 2 Million frequent flyer miles in AA. But I have enough fat in this budget to do it a few times a year. Also the deficit is also not a problem because its so small (budgets are only approximate anyway).

I've run this across several friends living abroad and they seem to think that I am overestimating my expenses.

Although I'm a little afraid to retire early because of the money, I have fallen in love with the Medellin non-pro scene.

As long as I don't monger everyday and try to live a normal life (just a role reversal between men and women), $25K is more than enough.

I think you might be missing a couple of things. First inflation runs a lot higher in Colombia than in the USA. Therefore assuming a 3% increase on your monthly may be a bit underestimating. Secondly your income I presume will come from the USA. You need to allow for currency flucuations i.e. the peso just fell 8% from it's recent peak. The economy is growing much faster down there than here and we are at all time highes on our trade imbalance. Therfore there are a lot of issues that need to be considered as cushions. I run Monte Carlos all the time and they are very good but the results are only as good and accurate as the information you input. Things like getting bored and wanted to go travel a bit. How is your spanish you may want to go to school $9 an hour multiplied by many many hours. I also have many friends living in Medellin. They tell me that to live a good live you need $3,000 after tax. I hear all these things about living on $1,000 etc. but I don't want to live in a third world country poor or tight for money. Anyway just playing devils advocate. Remember your advisor has nothing to risk as he is not going. Last point as a counter measure you really need to have some money set up down there invested. Why well because you are living there and you need to hedge your currency risk as well as inflation risk. I would think a more reasonable idea would be to have an income stream in pesos i.e. rental income to cover your basic needs then draw from your USA savings for things over and above. I know a lot of people worry as do I about having money invested down there but I think the risk of inflation and currency warrent such a move. You only need to look at the real in Brazil to see what I am talking about. Do you want to be down there and 5 years from now your income is halved and the prices have increased. You are renting and don't even have that cost fixed. If you are serious you need to consider these things. I really like reading your posts as I know you are thinking about these things everyday. I do Financial Planning for a living. I have been for 17 years. I have also been examing moving down ther and already own a place in Poblado. My concerns are all stated above. You can never cancel risk completely but you can try to minimize it. Good luck as I desire the same thing as you. I have almost $750,000 liquid and still feel that I will need another $300,000 to make me comfortable. I am the same age as you and we have (hopefully) a lot of years left. I just think you need to try to minimize these risks as much as possible. Things change a lot over that long a time frame.

Hiya all,

Well i'm going to be in Medellin for 5-6 weeks over xmas and new year. Hope to catch up with a few of you soon.

You are right about inflation, fortunately it has subsided quite a bit and is pretty stable. Prices in Medellin have been very constant.

I agree on the rent situation, but they have always had a vacancy problem so I don't think I am in too much danger.

Actually if I use $36K, my probability drops to 67.5%. But I suspect that I will be earning money as well.

But I don't see how it would cost me over $2000 to live per month. When I am there for a week, I only spend about $200 plus hotel and I'm going out every day and night, drinking, eating in Parque Lleras, and going to clubs. I can't imagine keeping that pace up every week unless I am an incessant mongerer. Too many non pros.

The numbers I generate per month are based upon 6% return. I can generate 10-12% with fairly acceptable risk. I am also a Financial Planner, I use outside people to help me with investment ideas. If I increase to 8% return, my aftertax monthly withdrawl is $2300 plus any employment income.

If I delay 1 year assuming a 6% return, I am at a $2300 monthly withdrawl.

So I think I might be OK. My hedge against inflation in Colombia would be employment or a local business.

By the way, if inflation gets to be a major factor, I have family in Buenos Aires, I can move to Thailand, or I can always come back to the US to work for a few years.

(Message edited by sniper on October 25, 2006)

Well I guess I am just a bit more conservative. When I make the move thee will be no return. Therefore I don't want to miscalculate. I also intend to have a car and travel a bit. I love Medellin but if I am living there day in and day out I know I will want a change of scenery. I need to have certain luxuries and also feel that over time it will become more expnsive in Medellin. Remember this is a growing economy. There is an untapped labor force for all intents and purposes and an aging baby boomer population moving to Panama etc.. Things change over time. I am also sure I will work at some point down there out of wanting to do things but I have to make assumptions that I won't be able to be gamefully employed. Anyway I love reading your posts and will follow and hope to meet you someday. Keep posting information as it is useful to me.

Actually I forgot to point out, the income above is only withdrawing earnings, not principal.

So I am assuming a 6% return, of which I will take only the earnings. So if I earn more, I'll plow it back into investment. If I make less, I'll take as little as I need to live comfortably and I'll just have to work a little harder.

I have a bunch of business ideas and I've got to believe my MBA from a top school in the US should afford me some consulting opportunities in Colombia. Worse comes to worse, I'll teach English or something.

I'll make it work. I just can't take the shitty attitudes from ugly women in the USA anymore. Mongering is actually becoming a secondary activity at this point.

Like I said, too much free pussy in Medellin (well, non pro anyway). If I need to play with a pro once a week to hold me over for the weekend, it won't break the budget. Unless newbies start inflating the prices by overpaying!

Biggy and Sniper, speaking of living in MDE, what do you think it would take to really live well there? Really nice place in Pablado area, car, etc? Also, what is the tax situation? for example, if my income is internet based or made out of Colombia do I pay a tax in Colombia? and do I still have to pay a US tax? Any advantage that you guys know of if it was based in Panama? Hopefully I will be right behind Sniper, although it may be a couple of years more. thanks, AZ

AZ

Panama City is a hell of a lot more to live than Medellin. The cost of living depends on if you want to own or buy.

1. A decent Poblado apartment will cost you $50K US. You can rent for about $400 US per month for the same apartment.

2. A car should be bought used in Colombia. A new car will be higher in Colombia because of the taxes. Frankly, I would stick with Taxis. It is much cheaper than the maintenance on a car.

3. I have been told that my budget above is living very well in Medellin. Perhaps even better if I owned my apartment and didn't pay rent. I'm really struggling with that choice.

4. The US tax code says that you can make up to $80K US overseas and not pay US tax as long as the US has a tax agreement with the country you are residing in. Colombia has a tax treaty with the US as does Panama. However your state (assuming Arizona by your name) may charge state tax on worldwide income. California does. So you want to establish residency in Nevada, Texas, or Florida, if you want to avoid state tax.

Now if your income is coming from US residents via the internet, assume you are going to pay US tax. If the above is true, I would not even report it to the tax authorities in Colombia. If however you receive a mix from the US and Colombia, you will need to report it to both countries to the extent of earnings in each country.

So the answer for you is it depends.

5. If you want a financial mecca for retirement, Panama is best. Their Pensionado program is second to none in the world. Getting a visa to live in Panama is a snap, you can even qualify for a Panamanian passport fairly easily.

But if you are going to spend your time in Colombia anyway, why bother moving to Panama? Just do a little extra work and live for much cheaper in the long run in Colombia.

I'll tell you, I am right where biggy is on the wealth accumulation phase of my life. $750K total liquid assets, only of which $400K or so in non IRA assets. So at a modest 6% I generate $24K a year. But I am a little more agressive so I figure 8% real return on that $400K.

My plan is designed only to take 6% of the earnings and reinvest the other 2% back into my portfolio.

I also plan to work, not necessarily for the money, but for keeping my mind active.

Whoring around is great but it is not a full time vocation. I have seen many guys in Rio do that and they look like shit after a few years. The body is not made to party 24x7. So when they have nothing left to do but party, their body shuts down. There is a considerable amount of research that says that if you do not keep up activity, you don't live that much longer. That is why a lot of retirees die only after a few years.

My ideas for employment:

Start an English school
Teach English at an existing school
Import Wine (I own vinyard in Napa California)
Entertainment Website/Blog
Write a book (I am working on a book now about early retirement abroad)
American consultant in Medellin for American business
Sell insurance & financial services over phone (I'm licensed in California but I can get relicensed in Florida, Texas, or Nevada)
Financial planning for expats
Publish a newsletter distributed by email
Website for expats-Financial, resources, etc

Everytime I come up with an idea, I write it down. I am unlikely to replace all of my income that I enjoy earning in the US, but I can easily generate $400 to $500 a month doing something. Probably much more if I want to put in the effort.

Thanks for the info. I will PM you for further discussion. AZ

A free Monte Carlo analysis can be had at http://www.fireseeker.com/.

I agree with Sniper except for the costs of an apartment in Poblado. You would get a very tiny place for $50,000. I spent about $170,000 but have a beautiful place. I could have bought another place for less but did not either like the location or the apartment. I think to have a place up to standard (Very nice) you will need minimum $100,000. However you can rent as I rent my place now. I charge about $900 a month. The rents do not justify the price but I have it paid off and do not have to worry about rent ever. Now you can rent a smaller place (mine is about 2000 square feet) for $400 to $500. I just wanted a big place with beautiful views up away from Poblado ave.. It gets too congested down there and hot. The breezes are nicer up in Tesoro and San Lucas and you are only 10 minutes from Poblado ave.. Anyway like I said it all depends on what you want but I would budget more for buying a place. Remember Poblado has gotten very expensive over the last few years. I know people say too expensive but remember as in the USA I want to live with people who will not let the neighborhood go to shit. Any Colombians with money live in Poblado. They are wealthy and will not let the area ever fall apart. They also will not ever really sell out of desperation as they don't have mortgages etc.. The prices are more stable. Although they may come down I do not see them being much cheaper.

The places I am looking at are around 1000 square feet, all in the $50-$55K range. I don't really want anything real big, too much upkeep for my tastes.

I have a different philosophy about spending money on things versus experiences than most, so I prefer spartan but very nice decor in small places vs. a large house full of stuff.

A lot of stuff reduces your flexibility, you have too much baggage. When I moved from my 4000 square foot house in LA to my 650 square foot apartment in San Francisco, I was paying $500 a month for a storage unit! It took me 4 years to get rid of all that stuff I never really needed in the first place. Now I live in an 1800 square foot high rise condo and I see the same thing happening. Too much stuff means too much responsibility.

Go small my friends, it makes for a less cluttered and happier life.

That spending philosophy is observed throughout my entire life. Clothing, cars...anything material, all high quality but less of them. I prefer to spend money on experiences rather than things that wear out and I have to throw them away or I have to waste time on maintaining them.

Anyway as far as prices for apartment rent or sale, go to:

http://www.arrendamientossantafe.com/
http://www.arrendamientosnutibara.com/

You will see you can get stuff for $500,000 to $1.6 Million Pesos ($215 to $650) in estrato 6 in Poblado. These range in price.

A really good friend of mine spends $600 a month for 1000 square foot loft in a brand new building with custom appliances and kitchen, all black marble. He had custom made furniture for the entire apartment made for him for $800 including delivery. He lives in Parque Lleras.

So Biggy is right, if you need a big place, but that is not my need. Most of the apartments that I have seen don't really waste a lot of space with long hallways or rooms with no function, so a 1000 square foot place often shows bigger in my experience.

The larger places I saw always had rooms that had space that wasn't usable, large foyers that are not necessary, and hallways that are counted in the square footage but really serve no function.

Excessive consumerism during retirement will cut your retirement short.

Also, as biggy might agree, in Medellin you want to be very low key. The appearance of excessive money will make you a target. Gringos already stick out, why call more attention to yourself?

One other thing that I started doing is I started hanging out in Envigado and parts of Belen. The restaurants are 70% less and just as nice, the shopping is much cheaper, and you experience more of real Colombia.

A matter of fact, one of the nicest apartments I saw was in Belen. It was in an estrato 6 neighborhood and it was $35K for about 900 square feet smartly arranged, the views were incredible, and the surrounding neighborhoods were very safe. It was next to the El Molina Mall which is a brand new mall that is much nicer and larger than Oviedo or Tesoro.

(Message edited by sniper on October 27, 2006)

(Message edited by sniper on October 27, 2006)

I have seen the new stuff in Belen and Sabenata. The problem I have is not estrado but location. There are areas in Poblado that are estrado 5 (like mine)which means I pay less in utilities etc. It also increases the value of my place. For example they market the new construction in Sabenata as estrado 5 and not 6. The neighborhood is supposed to change as they put in a new metro stop and build the new mall and hospital. However too much can happen that can derail that and not enough settled people yet. However I found estrado 5 in Poblado. The area is completely surrounded by million dollar homes (most expensive in Medellin). However they have a cut off line and built my building right next to it. I got the best of both worlds. I designed the apartment floor plans myself and was sure to make to functional and all space is utilized. In Colombia it costs only a few thousand to fully furnish with great furniture. Hell I will throw it out if I don't want it. You keep low profile by not letting people know your business. Remember I am middle level apartment $$ in Poblado. My buddy has a $400,000 place however I think he wishes he bought a little less. Never let people know your business and make it appear like you have to work. Believe me at $170,000 apartment is really not that big a deal in Poblado. I do think that I would not want to buy estrado 6 in Belen or Sabenata or Envigado. I love hanging in those areas but prefer Poblado. Saver and more secure all around.

When I was in MDE, Wallstreet showed us his apartment and it was pretty nice in what seemed like a great location. I think he said he paid $450 a month in rent. Sniper, if you have time while I am in MDE I would like to check out some places. This Belen area sounds interesting. Maybe you could just point me in the right direction. AZ

Belen is nice. The only downside is that at night taxis are not all over the place like in Poblado. So you can either have a car or you have your favorite taxi driver on speeddial.

I like the taxi option. Cheaper and less conspicuous.

What I really like about Belen is that the girls are much more receptive. The girls around Poblado see too many Americans so they are not as star struck. The girls in Belen don't go to Mangos or other really nice clubs a lot. So its a real treat for them if they do go with you.

Biggy has a point, Poblado will always stay nice. Even Uribe (The President) lives in Poblado when in MDE. But there are a multitude of places that are very safe and I think more "Colombian", which I like.

You can certainly pay $100K for an apartment, they have them all over. I guess my point is that I don't want or need that. I am perfectly happy in a small place in a nice neighborhood.

$50K to me represents $300 in income a month and I view property in Colombia as a non performing asset. They don't appreciate like they do in the US (or at least in California), so I don't want to sink a lot of money into property when I don't need to.

The guy who paid $400K, if he's from the UK, I know who he is and unless he has money to burn, he is not very smart sinking that kind of money into Medellin property.

By the way, you can negotiate your rent way down if you pay 1 year in advance.

I have another friend who paid a year in advance and paid only $500 for a similar place.

Anyway, 90% of the world lives in smaller spaces. As Americans, we always think we need a massive place to live. Having lived overseas for a long time, observing how people work less/live better, I can easily adapt to a new surrounding. I do not need to recreate Medellin in the image of my life in San Francisco.

You can clearly see why most Americans are in debt and save very little. You watch, SEA is the next to start a massive wave of consumerism.

Go to many parts of Europe where they take 6 weeks off of work per year, work 30 hour weeks, yet have more money in the bank than the average American.

Live smarter not harder.

El Poblado is mostly Estrato 5 & 6, although there is some 4 (not a lot).

Estrato 5 & 6 in El Poblado does not mean that the prices are the same in Sabaneta or Envigado for the services and taxs or in any other place in Colombia, they are area specific.

I'm pretty sold on the Laureles/Setenta area. Near Laureles you can get a reasonable 3 bedroom, 2 bath apartment in Estrato 3/4 for US$22,000 to 25,000.

Fat, old guys like me do much better here than in Parque Lleras. Likewise Unicentro works better for me than Oviedo.

I really am concerned about safety. I'm not sure I would do an estrato 3/4. But who knows I just need to see it first.

Rentals in Laureles go for as low as $110 US but I can imagine it must be a real shithole. They go as high as $1.4 Million ($600) for rent.

I am not that old or fat, but I think Unicentro works better for most everyone. There is just too much money going around Oviedo to make it a great place to go and the cost of stuff there is equal to US prices.

I was emailing a friend back and forth today about living in Bangkok. Now there is an interesting place to live and ultra cheap. He rents a fully furnished 3 bedroom house for $400 a month including internet access, utilities, and a maid that comes in once a week to clean. He lives totally on $800 a month.

Well if Medellin gets too expensive....

If you don't know MDE very well, stay in Poblado, Envigado or Sabaneta. Safety is a very big issue here.

Setenta is named for the street that runs from the Estadio metro stop to the big Catholic university(UPB?). Unicentro is on the other side of the university from Setenta. Several barrios converge here ranging from Estrato 3 to 6. I feel completely safe in this area 24/7. It is an area of clubs, restaurants, and retail. I am not aware of any P4P in the area.

There is a brand-new bicycle path of composite rubber(?) that is great for speed-walking while chica-watching. You don't need to worry about stepping into a hole and breaking your leg.

Laureles, the problem with Laureles is that there are to many not to good barrios close by, with easy access to enter the area.

For safety reasons alone, El Pobldao, Envigado and Sabaneta are the best areas, as there is no easy access to these areas, due to the geography of Medellin and the location of the not so nice areas.

That doesn't mean they are 100% safe (is any where), those are just my personnel thoughts.

On a air quality note, the air around Laureles sucks as well, plus there is always a lot of traffic.

Hunter

Hunter,

As always I appreciate your thoughts.

I have a 2 bedroom, 2 bath apartment rented in Floresta for Navidad. I'll see what I think after 30 days there.

Hunter I agree the air quality sucks down there. I like Poblado and even specifically up further. The breezes are nice and fresh. There is not the congestion with traffic. I also agree as far safety. Just not close to some of the barrios I prefer not to live.

I think all of MDE is pretty polluted. At night I'm always blowing my nose and finding a bunch of black shit coming out.

Lots of diesel fuel is the main reason for this.

Anyway, I'm used to the fresh breezes of the San Francisco bay, so my opinion might be tainted.

I'm thinking of visiting Medellin after jan 15 planning on staying at the mansion. Does anybody know how good it gets during that time? Is there still plenty of action and what is the weather like?

Thank you in advance.

Caffe,

The weather is always good, may be a bit rainy then, but still ok.

January is good because all of the girls are back in town from the Xmas vacation. You'll have a good time.

As you are flying in, I'll be flying out. I'm coming back to the US on Jan 10.

Does anyone have any news about the Torre Show, i was told it moved next to the Diamante Mall by the stadium. People say it is now a very expensive place.

I'll be in Cali from Nov. 16 to 26. Might go up to Medellin or Cartagena too, haven't made any definite decisions yet. Will probably be staying at the Windsor Plaza in Cali as recommended by Cubanut.

If any of you guys will be around, drop me a line. Even if it's Medellin, it shouldn't cost too much to fly up there and hang out with the fellas for a couple of days. And I'd be honored to meet some of you seasoned Colombia mongers. You can send me a message here or at droble77@netscape.com

LA Torre Show has moved almost next door to Energy massage parlor. It is called now La torre VIP.

Well, I'm off to Cali tomorrow. If anyone here will be in Cali (or even Medellin) from the 16th to the 26th, drop me a line here or at droble77@netscape.net

I am planning a second trip to Cartegena between Dec 10 and Jan 2. If any fellow mongers are in Cart during this timeframe, I would enjoy a partner in crime for a few beers and chasing beautiful women. Let me know.

Will be in Bogota tomorrow.
Anyone there? Or living there ?

I am going to cali on the 18th of january is there going to be any one there or am I alone on this venture.

Well Iīve been in Santa Marta since the 8th and ready to move on. Itīs a nice spot, great beaches and a few mongering options but not great enough to spend an extended period of time in. Iīll report more on it later.
So Iīm off to CTG to spend the rest of the time there until the 18th. Itīs my first time in CTG. Any fellow mongers who want to hang out, feel free to message me.

Planning a trip to Cartagena...

March 31st to April 6th (EASTER WEEK)

Flights from Miami....$600
Apartment for 2 (LAGUITO)......$140/ night (JUAN)

Entertainment....FOR (6 DAYS $800)

Is this ADEQUATE?

Canīt comment on the flight prices.

Apartment price would depend on what apartment you are renting and how many of you.

Entertainment looks fine as long as you don't throw to much money at the over priced LDV girls.

Hunter

Why are you going to a Catholic country during Easter Week? That's generally about the worst time you can go.

Catocony, why is about the worst time you can go?

Hunter

Semana Santa = Semana sin chicas for mongers. Most Latin countries I've been in around that time are pretty lean on the puta front. All the ones with a few bucks head home to spend the week with family and you're left with the dregs are real hard cases.

Hunter and even worse than that, if there is such a thing, BUT its LEY DE SECA, Which is a nationwide thing and basically means, NO ALCOHOL!!

Catocony, Ctg is full of chicas in Easter, there are far more girls there than normal in Easter, a lot more fresh semi-pros then as well.

Sobe9ball, I have yet to see alchol banned in Colombia at any time, apart from elections.

Merlin posted the information below a couple of days ago, he may have missed this post, which I found to be accurate the two easters that I have stayed in Ctg:

"I was in CTG 2 Easter's ago, and Hunter is right about arriving before Easter Starts and I'd get apts/hotels confirmed early. The planes were full and the hotels were full. There were more people than normal all over, and it seemed like there were more vacationing gals at the various discos and beaches wanting to make some money. Some of these gals didn't know what to charge, but were happy to take 70-80K ST. The casas seemed to have more inventory. Prices for the local gals were the same, perhaps b/c I mostly saw gals I've known for awhile. LDV had more girls, but the gals there were asking for ridiculous prices as usual. "

Hunter anytime it is "ley de seca" and i know it occurs at some times during sermana santa, they are forbiden to sell alcohol! period!

Sobe9ball, never seen it happen other than elections, maybe its on a weekday when I don't drink in Medellin with regards to Easter, so I don't notice it, or it doesn't happen in Ctg, where I have a beer or two most nights on weekdays and more on weekends if I feel like it.

Hunter

Let me text the novia, she is in Cali and she will put a friendly end to it once and for all, But then again this is only in CALI but i heard from other sources that its a nationwide thing,, will give you the 411. regards

Sobe9ball, I e-mailed my friend who has lived in Ctg for 32 years, he has never heard of alcohol being banned from sale there at any time apart from electons.

Hunter

Just got off the phone with my novia and she asked her Brother who is a city official and during Sermana Santa or Holy Week there will be no alcohol sold or served in CALI, Thus april 5 to sunday april 8th, but maybe its a CALI thing and not tourist oreiented like CTG. END of STORY!