Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive 01	50		2005/11/03, 10:15 pm

I agree.

If anyone reads my posts on this thread you’ll see that my [ only ] suggestion
was that :

" Your name should accompany your vote "

then

"the voting system would be transparent so that
we could all see the data and be free to form our own conclusions "

Well, at the risk of being overly verbose and further ticking off people, let me just say that I also did not intend by my earlier posts to advocate a wholesale change to the rating system. I merely wanted to point out the obvious that there were a few cynical raters that IMO should be dealt with in some fashion, which I think Hombre mentioned he did when disabling voting rights for 2 dudes w/ disproportionate 1s. Hombre mentioned he was unhappy with such activities as well and its human nature, IMO, for me to be ticked off by the few idiots as well. That's all, I never was a serious photographer nor am I obsessed with high ratings, just a pic obsessed hombre wanting to share some pics to the majority of the hombres that actually seem to appreciate the deed.

Anyway, Hombre, enough from me, all I can say is that you should be rightfully proud of the previous rating system and whatever you decide is best for the site is good for me as well.

This new system is just not what I thought it would be. Its too extreme.

I knowt that there are snipers out there that intentionally give me low scores like 1's and 2's because they might be jealous or they dislike me because I'm abrasive and outspoken on this site. There may be people that I pissed off forever and will always give me sniper scores but I COULD CARE FUCKING LESS. If the girl is hot to me, thats all that matters. Im the first one to admit when my date is not up to par looks-wise. I realize my pics take a big hit because my girls are usually clothed and photography skills are negligible....thats life. Another thing to consider is that many mongers could care less about photo skills. They want nudity and pretty girls. Lower grade girls with excellent photography skills may be like wrapping turds in a great bow...still turds(that was not directed at anyone in particular by the way)

Oh shit, forgot I had a naked 18 year old barfine next to me..time to rub my Cialis-infused hard on on her butt to wake her up for a morning session.

Cheers

I'm not sure what to think about the new rating system. It just seems kind of hollow. You either like the pic quality or you don't. You either like the chick or you don't. There seems to be no way of saying that it like the girl, or I relly like the girls, or holy shit, she is hot! It just seems really watered down to me.

I agree. There should be a few gradations. It may be a good idea to have a photo quality evaluation separate from rating how hot the girl is, but "yes" or "no" is hardly adequate for either (especially the latter, at which we all claim some expertise).

How much do we value a quality pic? I don't even know what quality pic means. Would you rather see a 10 in a poor quality pic or a quality pic of a 1?

val/hman:

You know the ole saying, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Listen, fact is that bitching about scores and obsessing about the nature of scores APPEARED to distract far too many people and it was devisive. I for one LIKED the old picture scores and didn't lose a wink of sleep over them. My philosophy was I enjoyed the trip, enjoyed taking the pics, and enjoyed sharing it with the group... if someone/something doesn't appreciate that or feels compelled to plummet scores, who gives a shit?

BUT it was obvious that many people do give a shit and this is an easy solution-- basically get rid of voting.


soccer:
I value pic quality very much. In fact, toss out of those shitty pics of hotties for all I care. I'm not saying it has to be a work of art, but it should be at least focused and as grain free as our res limit allows for.

Kudos to our "glamour" photographers such as Epi and Bahtman who inspire us all with their well thought out and beautiful images.


BM:
I never objected to your idea-- it is a great idea. Where we diverge was that you were focusing on scores and I would rather have you "refocusing" on capturing more beautiful images and forget about such mundane affairs.

Yeah, there's definitely a category missing:

"She's old, she's stretch-marked, she's shot from behind showing nothing but BACK, but SHE'S FROM BRAZIL, so 'NUFF SAID! GIVE HER A 8.5!!!"

imho, i will take another 5.8 over a 10 6/9.

ah Porker...that's fucking funny. Now I have San Miguel all over my laptop and my nose is burning from beer.

I luv Club Hombre, but Ugh!!!!! this new rating system is horrific. Bring back the old system and I will never ask for change again. Hell I am already missing the bitching and moaning about scores. This new system isn't exactly motivating me to post more pics.

My votes:

1. Bring back the old voting system.

2. NO WHINING!

I rarely look at the photos and I could care less that there is a rating scale or voting. But, I just took a look at the new vote options, and it is pretty silly. Pass/fail on two values?

Oh, Blazers, I've never sniped at you, but you have posted some pics of some ass-ugly little mingers That could explain the low scores on some of your pics!

Thats true Cat, but that doesnt explain the 6's given to hotties and there are just as many hotties as there are not.

I haven't paid enough attention to the rating system. I vote and only find out what the final score is if I revisit the photo at a later time.

But it seems the main complaint is photo contributers are unhappy to see their photo get a low score.

I'm just curious if everyone who submits a photo thinks their photo is always a 10.

For example it would be interesting if when submitting a photo the author would include what he thinks the photo is and then it is posted.

So let's say he thinks it's an "8". Then the option would be "disagree - deserves a lower score" "agree - i give it an 8 too" or "disagree - deserves a higher score".

Yes their "sniping" could still happen but this way the author can set the bar at what he thinks the photo should be.

And it is similar to the old system but this way the author can sort of set the benchmark.

Again, the old system works if there aren't snipers.

And Bahtam's system will probably deter snipers but a low vote will always open the debate if it comes from an honest place or a spiteful place, then it opens a door to more things.

1. A judgement call by Hombre to see if the voter was intentionally sniping or really feels the photo was not to his liking.

2. Potential flame wars between submitter and voter and those who side with each.

3. Type of disciplinary action if it is actually proven the vote was made to intenionally snipe.

I wanted to add on this part: So let's say he thinks it's an "8". Then the option would be "disagree - deserves a lower score" "agree - i give it an 8 too" or "disagree - deserves a higher score".

This way if the rating is "8" then someone can't vote "1" and drop an average rating drastically.

Let's say it would take (10) disagree- lower votes to make the rating drop to "7" or (10) positive votes to bring it up to "9".

I would also propose to have the two numbers posted side by side, ie:

Submitting Photographer's rating: "8"
Voters' rating: "9"

it would be interesting to see the accuaracy of what a submitter expects of his photo.

It seems as though this change in system is due to rivalry between the Asian mongers and the Latin American mongers. Who fucking cares. I know that when I click on a high ranked picture for the old system, I will like what I see. I don't really care about the quality of the picture, as long as it is good enough to give an accurate represtation. Sometimes when mongering it is real difficult to get a print quality photo. The new system makes no sense what so ever. I want the old system back.

I found a bug in the new rating system. You can give 2 votes for one photo. If you click attractive, and then quality pic both boxes show check marks. One does not cancel the other out.

My two cents, I really do not like the new system. I would like to see a return to the old system. If you want high points, don't take photos of fuglies, and if you do get a low score on your photo don't be thin skinned about it.

RG.

Why not use the old system but instead of posting the average the total score is posted. That way even a 1 adds to the total score of the photo. Or some variation that eliminates utilizing an "average".

*

There is no bug. A point can be given for pic quality and a point can be given for attractiveness for a total of two points maximum. In other words each member can give 0 points (no vote), one point or two points.

If I could get a solid and verifiable committment from enough photographers, I would consider a system more like before, but I doubt that kind of committment could ever be possible.

As long as individuals can attack photos with low scores, there exists too much risk for loosing potential photo contributors. With the pool of photographers as limited as it is, there is little enthusiasm to thin them out even more.

Hombre; What kind of solid and verifiable committment are you looking for.

I had no problem with the previous system. I got a few scores under 5.0 and I have have no problem with getting a low score for a photo being out of focus, and two pics of a semi fuglie girl.

She sure did'nt look that bad at 2am in Help.

RG.

Hombre,

A lot of us who don't post photos anymore aren't refraining because of perceived bad ratings. I don't do it because I don't want some rat printing them out and showing them to the girl, or telling her "I saw your photo on the internet, blah blah blah blah".

How about returning to the old ratings for pics, but in addition, add to each user's homebase/info page an average photo vote rating? That way, everyone can easily see that hombre XYZ gives an average of 7.0 (normal) vs hombre ABC who gives a 4.0 (who either only looks at pics of fuglies or has a masters degree in art history and is an excellent critic of photos or is just an asshole).

Since I don't post pictures, maybe I shouldn't get involved in this. But I do have a couple of comments anyway.

It appears Hombre stopped using the old rating system because some of those who posted pictures objected and suggested (or inferred) the problems with the ratings system were discouraging photographers from posting their pictures. I don't know the answers, but there would seem to be two questions I have regarding this claim:

(1) While some of the photographers complained about the system and suggested it was discouraging posters, IN FACT were there a significant number of photographers who indeed decided against posting owing to the flaws in the ratings system, or was this just talk?; and

(2) are there other photographers who consider getting a rating (whether flawed or not) an incentive to post, thereby in effect compensating for those who because of the flawed rating system choose not to post (assuming there are in fact persons in the latter category)?

The answers to these questions would seem to be relevant to any decision about where to go from here (if anywhere) with the ratings system. But there is a solution, as I mentioned earlier, that would be effective at least in diminishing the impact of picture assassins, assuming the software can handle it.

The problem of outliers having a disproportionate effect on the ratings could be solved by using the logarithmic or geometric mean, rather than the arithmetic average. These measures provide a good measure of the "center of gravity" of the ratings for a picture without being overly influenced by individual extreme ratings (a quick google search provided the following comment, taken from one of the many articles on the subject: "A geometric mean, unlike an arithmetic mean, tends to dampen the effect of very high or low values, which might bias the mean if a straight average (arithmetic mean) were calculated."). However, don't ask me how to calculate these; I could have helped on this maybe 20 years ago, but have since forgotten; a google search (on "geometric mean calculation" or "logarithmic mean calculation") would probably get the ball rolling. Yes, it may require some work, but something tells me the amount of time Hombre has already devoted to this issue may be more than the time it would take to implement the above solution.

LAguy called this accurately. Regarding #1, there were at least two explicit and more suggested that the rating system acted as a disincentive. There is no way I could know if it was just talk, so I took the posters at their word.

Revealing individual votes was, is, and will continue to be a non-consideration. There is simply way too much potential for unintended consequences(based on my understanding of the CH membership base over the past several years and participation in the "community" for much longer). It would likely do much more damage while adding little to no positive benefit.

On #2 I could not be convinced that there are any significant number of people who would only post photos for a specific or any rating system. Consequently, this would mean that while possibly being entertaining or informative, the existence of ratings has much more potential and likeliness to be a disincentive than an incentive.

Cat, I know why some people don't post. I do not want to compound that problem with a rating system that discourages posting. The homebase suggestion is meaningless without revealing individual votes.

RG, basically a guarantee of a solid stream of photos from a diverse number of countries. How? Exactly.

I guess one problem I see with the new system, unless I misunderstand it, is that there is no way for someone to know whether a 5q/3a means that 5 people looked the pic and all thought the pic quality was decent and 3 thought the girl attractive, or 55 looked at it and 5 thought the pic decent and 3 thought the girl attractive, with the other 50 thinking the pics lousy AND the girl unattractive. Without a denominator, the numbers become reasonably meaningless. A low total can mean bad pic/ugly girl or voter apathy. I can't tell which, but with many guys saying they don't care for the new system, I suspect voter apathy is rampant. In the end, though, it seems to make the whole voting system fairly pointless.

Just my 2 cents...

I vote for LAguy's idea. Low ratings, even Blazers' disparaging comments, don't discourage me.

The current system IMHO sucks, and I am not rating any photos at all with it.

I second Bwana dik's comments- the new ratings are meaningless. The old system, for all its flaws, was fun, and gave you a reasonable indication in the long run. Thousands of photos were posted when the old system was running, so the ratings weren't that much of a deterrent in general to posters. And for every photographer who was put off by the ratings, I'm sure guys like Sandman etc were really chuffed by the feedback. Even without actual ratings other posters can still can the photography anyway. But I can remember rating some new photos in the old system when it was obvious that some numbskulls had been rating 1 or 10 on photos that no way justified either score. I think the new system could be simply adjusted by showing the % of viewers who rated quality/attractive with Yes or No to each categoty. High % figures would generally indicate a babe. Whilst not as good as the old system, it would at least have the advantage of not being able to be sabotaged by the 1/10 scoring idiots- they would just get to vote quality/attractive or not like everyone else.

Sphinx-What does "chuffed" mean?

Honestly, I have never been bothered by the ratings and am quite pleased that most of mine made into the 7's and higher. I have also seen significant improvement in the quality of the photos, what with better equipment and more experienced photogs. The bar constantly gets raised. Still, I get excited when I see a complete novice get a high ranking with a beautiful girl.

I do agree, bring back the old rankings even with all of its flaws. Or, a star (1-5) type of rankings.

"I'm sure guys like Sandman etc were really chuffed by the feedback."

I was hoping the Mighty Sphinxter would respond, and perhaps he might, yet, but since I really got into "sussing out" (figuring out") the lingo while in New Zealand for a year and a half, here goes my understanding of "chuffed": Excited, happy, stoked, thrilled.

Ta! Cheers!

Thanks RJ. For the past few weeks I have been getting a lesson in Aussie lingo in Colombia. Takes a bit of getting used to. "Unities" was a new one on me!

Can we revisit this topic? It's been almost ten months since Hombre switched to the new rating system. As you can see in this thread much of the early feedback was real negative. I think most users would say that lack of gradation in scoring, the ackwardness of the feedback mechanism, and the weak sense of what the results mean have resulted in reduced voting participation, frustration by those who post photos, and a severely diminished entertainment value of the photo rating system.

It seems at the inception of the new system that larger number of negative voices was pushed aside because a couple of posters who at that time were submitting very large numbers of photos threatened to stop posting. Guess what? THOSE POSTERS AREN'T SUBMITTING VERY MANY PHOTOS ANYMORE.

As a poster who continues to actively submit photos I would really like to see a return to the old system. It was more informative and fun.

Bring back the 10 point scale photo rating systeme. Can I get an Amen!?

Amen Bruther! I still don't get the "Kudos" system. And while Hombre's at it - can we get the pics FULL SIZE!! - instead of making me squint and lean forward to look at the naughtie bits?

\m/

Mongerx -
Amen! Amen!

I plan to post a bunch this fall, let us go back to the Old School 10 point scale Hombre's!

IIRC, the photo rating brouhaha was started by a bunch of whiners complaining that guys who went to destination X rated destination Y girls artificially low.

Since nobody participates in the rating anymore, I guess the whiners are satisfied.

Making the ratings 'fun' (in other words, controversial) again will just be a replay of the scene from last year (&before).

Be careful what you wish for,

Dem Gnomes

It does seem a bit unfair sometimes. I mean there are these obviously chunky Latin American women getting very high scores. Not all of the Latin Americans are chunky and some are indeed good looking. However, there are a few notable examples of the unfair situation sitting around on the board.

I will go out on a limb and make this candid observation. This is only my perception and opinion. The guys on the South American side of the board do not seem bitter about the countries in which they visit. Whereas the mongers on the Asian side are constantly pointing out the flaws of the countries they visit and do sound a little bitter at times.

My thinking is that the South American mongers might be more kick-back and less uptight. When they rate the pictures, they just throw it on all in fun. They dont take this seriously. They are having a good time and just want to support their buddies.

The Asian mongers are more critical of their fellow mongers pictures. Any flaws in the woman and you get a low score.

I believe the ratings that Masterbates's pictures used to receive support the veracity of the old rating system (and before I receive any flames about this observation, I believe Masterbates would agree).

Dem Gnomes, originally I was probably one of the whiners (but a more mild one.) However, guys are accustomed to ranking girls on a 10 point scale. Those scores actually meant something (exactly what is open to debate) Hell my pic gets a score of 4.3 I am like maybe its time to drink less and go see the eye doctore. Under the new system I have a picture with a score of 11, and I think what the hells does that mean? I don't think anybody knows.

The only way I use the current system is to help me select what pics I want to look at. There are too many pics here for me to view them all. So usually I look for ones that seem to have a very large relative number of votes relative to that series or local. However, I suspect others are doing the same and in fact often times the best pic isn't getting the big number of votes. Under the old systeme picking the higher rated photos seems like a better signal.

So here I am whining again. However, if we bring back the old system I promise not to whina about that system again.

IE, Perhaps Asian mongers aren't more uptight, just more discriminating. Actaully, I just think there a lot more Latina oriented mongers here than Asian oriented mongers. The scores from the current rating system just reflect that.

I just thought it would be more fun an entice more people to actually rate pics again if we went back to the old system. But it looks like there isn't a great amount of enthusiasm for that idea.

Just an aside, I just spent time looking at recent Brazil and picks from a couple of years ago.

What the hell is happening in Brazil? 2+ years ago, there were all kinds of hot sexy beautiful girls having there pics posted on CH. These days, outside of a very few exceptions, it's almost exclusively mediocre to friggin' scary pics come up under Brazil. Lots of really huge, old, and skanky bad (not skanky good) picks showing up.

Has the talent dropped, or have the hotties become un photo friendly?

I agree....thousands of incredible looking Colombian girls but the Brazilian girls are mostly fat horseheads. Maybe the hot ones are on the programma now or the PL's are not taking photos so they dont get exposed to the horny masses.

Go to multimedia. Then go to members and filter out only Masturbates photos. Then click on score to filter the highest scores.

I looked at a few of the photos and now I need to go sit down to clear my mind for a while. I wonder how doctors do it looking at these photos in the medical journals all the time. Certainly, that is one of the reasons why they make six figure salaries.

Mongerx,
You shouldn't say such mean things about Jag's true loves.

Many of the Boys of Brazil have told me they just don't post pics anymore because too many assholes were printing copies and showing them to the girls or just ratting out guys who posted pics. you know, "hey, Laissa, that dude over there takes pics of girls and posts them on the internet." It's happened to me on more than one occasion, so I only post if I have explicit permission.

The problem before was primarily two things:

First, some members of this club were intentionally placing low scores (abnormally and unrealistically low) to screw-up the overall rating system making it rather unrealistic at times. (Let's face it...one guy's 8 or 9 is sometimes another guy's 4 or 5...but when 100 guys score her as a 7 or more and five guys score her as a 1...there is something wrong).

Second, some club members with big egos were way too thin skinned with regards to how well their photos rated...they began taking it overly personal to the point they began flaming everyone. Hombre eventually became annoyed with this particular issue to the point that he chose the very neutral and boring scoring system we have today.

I wish that there was a way to make fellow club members judiciously cast their votes, but with a 1-10 scoring system there is no penalty if a dude (drunk at his computer) scores every pic as a 1, just to fuck with the system and everyone who takes the rating system seriously.

I liked the idea of having a scoring system whereas each club member's name would be linked to his vote. That way when a majority score a chica as an 8, but a few guys scored her below a 3, other members could ask those members to either reconsider their low vote or explain why they scored the chica so low...maybe so high?

This way club member's could, in a way, be held accountable...no longer hiding behind their computer screens anonymously.

One final comment - There have been a few times that I saw a pic of a chica who "looked" a little on the young side. Now with the Protect Act as well as other Freedom & Liberty reduction acts out there, we know damn well we could lose this club and great source of information with only one verified fuck-up. I also worry that those of us who desire to stay on the legal side of the law could become implicated in a illegal porn charge simply for logging-on and clicking a pic of a chica in the buff.

Therefore, if no pics were allowed, or clothed only pics...I would be okay with that because pics are not as important to me as the dialogue and discussion generated in this forum. Just a thought for you all to think about.

Ciao,

AJ

Hey I got deja vue all over again.
Haven't we said all these same things at least once before ?? The first discussion got us nowhere. I cannot imagine this one leading anywhere else.

That doesn't mean I like the present rating system. It seems to have no meaning. My vote would be to go back to the old system with no changes and let the numbers fall where they may. Epi and Bahtman seem to have lost their cameras anyway.

I'll give an "Amen" to MX's proposal to return to the old system (or a modified version of it, where outlying ratings are not counted, or disclosure of names/ratings is included).

Hombre might want to delete postings of "age-questionable" girls just to be safe, as he does with "action" photos or even raunchy poses.