"Senor. There's no reason to yell."
"BULLSHIT! I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT, ANYMORE!!!"

Mix together too much cervesa, my staying too long at the fair, my stupid chica-selection mistake, and the INFAMOUS CHEESE PLATTER AT BAR TROPICAL, and you've got an explosive mixture.

Normally, when I go into Bar Tropical, I quietly ignore the waiters trying to get me to sit at a table and simply walk over and sit at the bar. Again, I've noticed how territorial many of the Mexican clubs are. If you're sitting at a table, you're considered fair game for any of the waiters in the place. However, if you sit at the bar there seems to be an invisible protective shield that keeps the waiters away. I think there must be some sort of territorial agreement between the waiters and the bartenders.

I've worked out a fairly smooth routine for my time in la zona that generally leads to some great adventures including many happy surprises. I normally go down in the afternoon, get a room for the night, set up Rick's Cafe Mexicana, and invite one of my amigas especiales to a fiesta. After a few hours she leaves, I freshen up the room, cruise around the zona and when I'm ready invite a different amiga especial or possibly a new candidate amiga especial to Rick's Cafe Mexicana. It's my compressed into one night version of serial monogamy. (Now, that I think about it, I noticed that I usually wind up spending much more time having a fiesta in Rick's Cafe than cruising around the bars in the Zona Norte.)

The next day usually begins with a wake-up special visit from una amiga especial, packing up and checking out by 1 PM, a leisurely lunch while enjoying the afterglow of a great orgy, and then returning to the USA with a clear mind and contented feelings. However, since America's wake-up call on Sept 11, things have changed. Twice I've come back in the afternoon. The first time took 5 hours and the second time 2 hours. This last time I tried something different. Instead of returning in the afternoon I decided I'd stay down there until some time at night when the lines at the border are smaller.

So there I was in the afternoon after a truly great evening's fiesta - contented, happy, and satisfied with time on my hands and no agenda. It had rained in the morning and the sun had come out in the afternoon. The sky was blue and Tijuana had an inviting just-washed look and smell about it. I hit the streets happy to be alive. Like a little boy exploring a new found field, woods, or creek, I wandered full of curiousity and joy through the streets, shops, and cafes of the city. My experience is that Mexico "fills the senses" in comparison to the U.S. The sights, sounds, and especially the smells of the place sometime overwhelm me with their sheer "aliveness". Over on Martinez between 2nd and 3rd and across from the Plaza del Oro I accepted the invitation of a rather dapper and distinguished-looking barber who wasn't busy and offered me immediate service. I didn't know it was coming and had a few anxious moments when he brought out the straight-edged razor to neaten things up around the edges. But, as his gray hair indicated, he was thoroughly experienced and carefully flicked the razor around with no loss of blood on my part. Afterwards, an application of aftershave and I was refreshed even more than before and continued on my journey. There are times like this that I pure and simply just love Tijuana. I feel great and the words "heaven on earth" mysteriously appear in my mind.

As the sun was going down I wound up on 2nd and Revolucion and admired the sun glinting off the shiny new metal covering on the arch. I hadn't had a real breakfast yet and was feeling a little hungry when I saw People's inviting 2nd story open-air tables. Remembering Matiz's post about the place, I asked a waiter if they served huevos rancheros and he motioned for me to follow him up the stairs with a hearty "Sure, we'll make some just for you". While enjoying the 2-for-1 cervesas along with the huevos rancheros, I noticed another diner who looked like he might be an internet guy and wondered if he too was there because of Matiz's recommendation.

Afterwards, I continued to continue my journey with a vague idea of heading for the zona and maybe having "una vez mas" (one more time) before heading home.

Because I live in San Diego, I get that my experience of the Zona Norte is different than many of the extended trip reports I've read. I've never stayed more than one night down there. For me that's been enough for the excitement of the anticipation, the pure pleasure of the fiestas, and the enjoyment of the afterglow. Then it's time to go - "otra lugar. otra vida" (another place. another life). Also, since I generally don't drink before the first fiesta, none of my amiga especiales are big drinkers, and I'm only there one day, my drinking has a limit.

Tijuana can be a little tiring after too much time having to watch your back, watch your change, and watch who's around and watching you. It's sort of like the shields on the starship Enterprise. Keeping them up consumes energy. Sometimes I just want to relax and lower the shields. I guess I've been spoiled by the wonderful and relaxing times I've had with my amigas especiales. We've known each other for years, established "confianza", and spend much more time away from the bars than at them. When I'm with them I can totally relax and let the shields down. No problemas. A safe environment for awhile and then I'm out of there.

This last time I discovered my limit. The straw that broke the camel's back. Too long at the fair, too much cervesa, a disappointing chica, the hustling waiters, remembering reports of Porker's response as an example, and THE GOD-DAMN CHEESE PLATE AT BAR TROPICAL.
(By the way, it's not really the cheese plate. It was a combination of all the factors. One time in the past I was with a good friend in Bar Tropical and we sat at a table. We ordered beers which the waiter brought and then he sat a cheese plate on the table. My friend and I just looked at each other and immediately broke out in loud and hearty laughter to the consternation of the waiter. We waved the cheeseplate back and the waiter quickly took it and retreated.)

After returning to Coahuilla I wasn't particularly interested in another fiesta and therefore felt no need to restrain my drinking. The previous night my amiga especial had made an interesting comment. She was telling me how much more she enjoyed spending several hours at the romantic Rick's Cafe Mexicana and away from the bar with it's normal work routine of 30-minute sessions quickly followed by "next". She said that the clubs were set up for sex the way guys like it but it was unnatural for women. From an evolutionary psychology standpoint there's a lot of evidence to support what she was saying.

Since she's around 30 I was kidding her about all the sex she was having with "joven". Her response was interesting. She said that no there wasn't as much sex going on at the hotel as you'd think. She said many, many of the guys are too drunk to do a proper job of "sexo". I thought that was an interesting comment because it matched my game plan. I generally drink agua mineral or orange juice if I'm planning on "sex" and only drink cervesas "after".

Anyway, since I wasn't particularly planning on another fiesta and felt no reason to constrain myself, I overdid the cervesas. I was checking out the various bars in my "once around the block" routine and it was early enough for the 2 for 1 specials at each place. Somewhere in the course of my rounds I ran into the guy that had been at People's earlier. He was indeed an internet guy and turned out to be very cool so we hooked up and made the rounds together. However, since his rounds were different than my rounds that made two rounds, several clubs, and a lot more cervesas.

Eventually we wound up over at the Bar Tropical. Just as we were going in I ran into this very pretty face, said hola, and found out her name was Nancy. That's the name of my ex-wife and she reminded me of her. I immediately asked her for a dance and was enjoying being with her. However, I needed to visit el bano pretty quickly. After 1 dance I escorted her to her chair and visited el bano. While standing there I noticed a sign over the urinal. It was in Spanish but I got the gist was that in order to better serve you, the management suggested that you notice the name or number of your waiter. As I left I saw Nancy and invited her to join us for a drink. The three of us got a table and ordered drinks and I made a mental note that the waiter was #15. While we were sitting there, I noticed that Nancy was registering -4 on the "Ricardo Indicator", which is the lowest score possible, and thinking to myself "Shit. I fucked up. Dam it. I should have been more patient and done a little observing before jumping right in like that. I got suckered in by another pretty face. Just like my ex-wife."

About then the waiter brought us the 3 drinks - a beer for my friend, a beer for me, and Nancy's drink. I gave him a $20 and he gave me three dollars change. I had a thought that that wasn't right but ignored it and automatically gave him a $1 tip and he scurried away. Nancy was stuck solidly in -4 territory so I switched to talking to my new friend and considered how to cut my losses short with her. So far, I haven't been able to identify the specific stimulus that set me off, but suddenly I blurted out, "Wait a minute. That's not right." I didn't know the prices for beers or the prices for chica drinks in Bar Tropical but $17 was obviously too much. I debated briefly about just writing it off as a cost of being in the zona, but something very deep and powerful within me just exploded.

Suddenly I was on my feet headed for the bar and looking for #15. I didn't see him immediately so I created a ruckus, yelled at the bartender and demanded to talk to "El Jefe". The interesting thing is that although the adrenalin was pumping I wasn't really out of control and it felt like "play acting". I knew exactly what I was doing. I was debating bringing la policia into this and calculating whether that was a good move or not when the manager appeared.
"Senor. There's no reason to yell."
"BULLSHIT! I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!"
The manager got #15 and we went over what had transpired. It's $2.50 for each beer and $7 for the chica's drink. That's $12. Then the waiter said and $5 for the cheese plate that the lady ordered.
"BULLSHIT! NOBODY ORDERED THE GOD-DAMN FUCKING CHEESE PLATE!!!"
The waiter gave me a $5 bill, the manager repeated "Senor. There's no reason to yell", and I returned to the table. Nancy was gone and her untouched $7 ficha drink was sitting on the table.
The manager brought her back and she sat down meekly. My friend made a wise comment that they don't understand that it's not about the money. I looked at Nancy and yelled at her in English about ordering the cheese plate and included a few pent-up references about my ex-wife concluding with "FUCK YOU AND FUCK NANCY"! I don't think she understood my English, but she couldn't miss my attitude. She disappeared which was okay with me. I finished her fiche drink and we left.

In hind sight it's possible Nancy had no idea what was going on and just found herself in a very uncomfortable position and simply wanted to escape. El Jefe's intervening with the waiter is all a made up bull shit game designed to placate the gringos when we catch them. Obviously, the cheese plate scam is something the management of the place schemed up. My friend's comment catches the essence of the situation, "It's not about the money". It's about the lack of respect entailed by the never-ending bull-shit scams we're subjected to down there. The management of many places on Revolution and the Bar Tropical/Las Chavelas/Hotel Cascadas/Miami-Hong Kong organization are caught in a time warp of dealing with their customers as if they're young, drunk sailors who are just passing through and are too drunk and inexperienced to know what's happening. Maybe it's the border towns. Maybe it's the Mexican history of being fucked over by their religious institutions and governments. Maybe it's a cultural focus on grabbing now and to hell with the future. Maybe it's the lack of concern and tradtion for "the common good" in Mexico. Maybe I simply drank too much and stayed too long at the fair.

I don't know why many businesses and people in Tijuana seem totally incapable of understanding a Win-Win approach to dealing with people and building mutually beneficial relationships instead of grabbing transactions now. But one thing I do know and learned from the experience. El Jefe's comment that "Senor, there's no reason to yell" is wrong. Flat out, no qualification wrong. There is every reason to yell. First of all because it works. Many of them seem to have the attitude that we'll fuck you over as much as we can UNTIL YOU YELL. Then we'll back down. Secondly, I noticed that the manager was very worried about my yelling and creating a ruckus. Why? Was he worried about la polica intervening? Was he worried about ruining the party atmosphere of the place? Was he worried about other customers hearing what I was complaining about? Was he worried about it being bad for his business? I don't know why but I do know that it gets results.

On a deeper level I've been trying to figure out how the internet is changing society. One interesting analysis I read said that it shifts the power from producers and distributors to consumers. Rip-off artists depend on a continuous new crop of naive victims to keep their scams running. When the internet is used to spread information about a scam there are fewer naive people around. It's an electronic yell that warns people. Consider yourself yelled at.
FUCK THE GOD-DAMN CHEESE PLATE!

Regards,
RickFeliz

An absolutely beautiful piece of truthful journalism. I have had many problems with the management allowing the waiters to act like clients and customers at the bar with the chicas. I finally sat down with the night manager and told him that mesero's whom influence chicas into starting a drug habit while the meseros prey on these girls while at work is bad for business. The chicas get scared and run back to Culiacan in a couple of days. He understood everything I said and told me that he was going to have a meeting with all meseros about this subject. I will monitor the situation and will point out to the manager all of the mesero bullshit maneuvers. I just want to screw hot young looking, innocent racheritas...I don't need meseros with a 3rd grade education and a Machiavellean mentality to fuck up my game. That's one for the good guys Senor Matiz...thanks for doing the right thing.

I'm sitting in an internet joint on Rev right now because of Tropical. More accurate because of Jessica ... tall, thin, straight black haired girl who danced last at the 6:30 show at Tropical tonight. I had just TIPPED the waiter who brought me my drink after HAVING SEATED me when she came on. I had seen her act the day before and thought she was hot, so I asked my new friend (the waiter) who she was and did she go to the room. He asked if I would like to meet her after her show. He did, she said $50, we left, and now I am "AFO" (all fucked out) Wild Child!!! She preforms in the room just like she dances. High energy !!! I need rest ... food. I been holed up in TJ for 3 days now and this eclipses any other action I have seen. 10/10/10

My point? Thanks. I'm a Seattle guy who gets to TJ only 2 or 3 times a year. Because of you regulars who post about the rip-offs I can spend a few days down here and not get robbed with in 5 minutes of hitting town. I'm not a regular or a local and no body here thinks that I am for even a minute. But, I can be heads up and have a good time thanks to your information. I've been starting my days getting a massage at Aztec and then heading on down for the early afternoon show at Tropical and haven't had trouble yet. Been enjoying the hell out of the place, young girls and the dancers are not gorditas. Of course I always hold my money up to the light just so the waiter knows that I know what size bill it is. Now I'm onto the Cheese Plate Scam and can tell any waiter who brings me one that it looks like rodent food and some other rat must have ordered it. Thanks again.

McDIJJ

P.S. Where is Rick's Cafe? Like I said ... I need food.

If you need food, try Ricardos on the corner of 7th and Madero. It is open 24 hours and has excellent food for an all-night spot. One block east of Revolution and 7th, where the AM-PM is. If walking from 6th to 7th, take a left and go one block. (I think Ricks Cafe is Rick Felizs hotel room outfitted with food/drinks for his visiting amigas)

hi

Ricardos has a decent selection of food.
Much better than Sanborns.
I eat there a lot and their chorizo is one of the best in TJ.
I have breakfast there a lot ,i just wish they had better coffee ;o(.
Prices are better than Sanborns and it is right next to the hotel Vzd.

I wonder what does ricks cafe serve ? - hahaha

milky

"I wonder what does ricks cafe serve ?"

Whatever they want ;0)

Regards,
RickFeliz

It's gotten to the point at Tropical that I tell the mesero that seats me that ALL tips will be withheld until I'm finished. THEN they receive a tip. Furthermore, no teep if I see a cheeseplate on my table and I won't pay for the damn plate. I had no problem last time.

Regarding the chicas ordering the plate, they don't, of course. They DO know what's happenin so if you get taken you are just another victim in the meseros game and you lose respect.

RF, I often sit at the bar for the same reason. Sometimes it's cool to hang at a table courtside and get a face full of chica for a bone. The management should learn and tell the meseros to knock it off and keep the gringo $$ comin back. Party on.

The Dog

"I wonder what does ricks cafe serve ?"

Milky, that's a great question. It really got me to thinking. When we go to Mexico, part of the fun is eating exotic foods from a different culture. Many senoritas are like us and also like exotic foods. My local Ralphs has all sorts of things that are "exotic" to them. Particularly in the fruits/vegetables and deli section. So far Rick's Cafe has gotten the best response to serving that exotic American specialty - fresh blueberries. I guess they don't have blueberries in Mexico.

But your question has led to a great breakthrough regarding what's available at Rick's cafe. Straight from the deli at Ralph's comes our new speciality - a cheese plate ;0)

Regards,
RickFeliz

Sr. Feliz
If by remote chance one was checked when ENTERING Mexico are there potential problems for bringing produce or meats into thier country?

I get questioned at the fruit and veggie checkpoint sometimes just driving into California from Nevada.Of course if i have passengers i'll tell the guy that one of them is a fruit and the other a veggie and get waved right through.
Taxibob

On my last trip, I went to Tropical three days in a row. I must have refused a dozen cheese plates.
I was hanging out with Rooster and Valeria most of the time. Rooster speaks fluent Spanish and had a ball translating to Valeria all the raw jokes we were making about the waiters. I think she related them back to the waiter. On day three, there was no cheese plate.

Lol, Rick, you tell 'em! You know how important customer service is to them in the Zona! I was told awhile back, and believe it still to be so that the wiaters at Tropical are required to sell one of those 'cheese' plates on every shift. If they should happen NOT TO, they get charged for it out of their sueldo. If I was gonna get nicked for 5+ bucks for that thing I might drop it off on what I xenophobically considered the dumbest guy in the room myself. Something I'd like to think I am learning in my old age is not to rage at a 'cultural' difference. That the cultural difference is a fucked up one speak volumes about the lugar. Speaking of which, would any of y'all be upset of half the waiters in the Zona were some how 'downsized'? Please use your market economy analysis talents, Sr. Feliz, and tell us how we can make this happen.

"If I was gonna get nicked for 5+ bucks for that thing I might drop it off on what I xenophobically considered the dumbest guy in the room myself."

Exactly why I sometimes get pissed off about it. I always took it as an insult.

"disintermediation" - eliminating the middle man.

Porker,

I agree about the futility of raging at a "cultural" difference. Part of my reason for writing the cheese plate post was to attempt to pin down what had happened and why.

Normally, I telephone una amiga especial ahead of time and arrange to meet her at "Rick's Cafe Americain" in my hotel room. As I noticed while writing the post, I spend very little time in the clubs, now. I go down to Tijuana to have "fiestas" con mis amigas especiales - a party between two (or more) consenting adults. Once you've met your playmate, there is absolutely no need for the clubs and THEIR GAMES . Normally, I'm creative enough to bypass all that and come up with my own games to play with mis amigas especiales. My games all revolve around "mejor para ambos" or "mejor para los dos" (better for both or Win-Win). This seems to be a concept generally overlooked in the "culture" of la zona.

With the benefit of hindsight I can see that I could have avoided the "rage against the machine" by changing my behavior. I got drunk and stayed too long at the fair in an attempt to avoid the long lines at the border in the afternoon. Obviously, I'll have to try a different strategy.

As for an economic analysis of the scene, "disintermediation" seems to be the key. However, it requires thinking outside the box, being selective, and establishing "confianza"(confidence/trust) with your chosen playmate.

Economically, las senoritas are there to make money. Within the box the managements of the clubs have set up three ways for them to do it - dancing, drinking, and going to the room. Of the three activities dancing is the best deal for you and her and worst for the clubs - an ideal disintermediation. When you pay her $1 to dance, it costs you $1, she gets a $1, and the club gets 0 (nada). When you buy her a drink, it costs you $5-$8, she gets $2-3 and the club gets $3-5. When you take her to the room, it costs you $50-60 (includes $10 for the room or barfine), she gets $40-50, and the club/hotel gets $10. The worst deal with the highest middleman's cut is buying her a drink - MORE THAN HALF YOUR MONEY GOES TO THE MIDDLEMAN. As an experienced negotiator has been trying to tell us for a couple of years, it's a game where "You buy her a drink, you lose!".

Now, it's not as bad if you buy her a drink and also go to the room. Then it costs you $55-68, she gets $42-53, and the middleman gets $13 - $15. It's even better if you dance, buy her a drink, and go to the room. However, the point is that in terms of disintermediation the best transactions WITHIN THE BOX are dancing, going to the room, and buying her a drink in that order. Again buying fiche drinks is the "worst for both". I remember una amiga especial at Chicago Club looking at the situation with their $8 drinks and suggesting that I tell my friends not to buy more than 1 or 2 drinks and instead give the ladies una propina. I haven't bought her a drink in over a year but have given her many $5 gifts which she really appreciates - "mejor para ambos".

Outside the box it's all negotiable. I ignore the standard "culture" of la zona that's been set up to "screw the gringo" and create my own games. When I'm alone in Rick's Cafe with una amiga that I've established confianza with, it's between me and her - two consenting adults. It's in private without a middleman (or waiter) constantly looking for some way to come between us and get their cut. ALL MY MONEY GOES TO HER. And in return I'm amazed at how many senoritas say that what's possible is "total tu quieres" (whatever you want). Since my desires seem to revolve around playful "fantasias" (fantasies), I've never been disappointed. Of course, I treat the ladies with respect and had to learn enough "espanol de la fiesta" (party spanish) to be able to communicate. If you're selective in your playmates, you can find talented senoritas that are focused on making sure you have "un buen tiempo" (a good time).

"seleccion" (selection)
Since my goal is to wind up in bed with the lady, I'm very careful about "mi seleccion" (my selection). A very simple technique for eliminating the women who make most of their money pushing fiche drinks is to simply not buy them any drinks. A simple "No, gracias" to the question "una cervesa para mi?", quickly eliminates them. I've totally stopped buying drinks for women that ask for them. Particularly in the smaller clubs where many women make most of their money hustling drinks. They're on the middleman's team and not "our" team. I seriously doubt they're capable of understanding "mejor para ambos".

Last week at the Playboy club was funny. I was showing a friend around and we got a table near the dance floor. After we ordered and paid for our drinks, we were looking around at las senoritas. I caught the eye of a tiny pretty one and boom - she was sitting in my lap before I knew what happened. "Una cervesa para mi?". "No, gracious" as I bounced her on my knee. She started to pout as the waiter opened her fiche drink and placed it on the table in front of her. I was amazed at the speed of the hustle, laughed, and told the waiter "No". He looked at her and she turned to me and said in a loud, demanding voice, "UNA CERVESA PARA MI !". "No". And there we were at an impasse. She'd obviously ordered the drink before even asking me, it had already been opened, and all I kept saying was a quiet, but by now quite determined "No". As she repeated her demands, I was becoming more interested in the situation and wondered how it would play out. Since we were sitting next to the dance floor, it was quite public. I was thinking that this was the ultimate female humiliation - she was looking bad in front of her friends and co-workers. She tried badgering, demanding, scowling, seduction, etc. and I was surprised at how immune I was to her attempted manipulations. It feels like the incident with the damn cheese plate was a defining moment when I passed through a portal. I entered as a polite, nice guy, "turista" (tourist) and exited as a seasoned "putanero". No yelling. No upset. Simple confidence, determination, and amusement at "la cultura" de la zona. No further drama and the situation ended with the waiter giving her a nasty look and taking away the fiche drink. Shortly thereafter, she hopped to the next table and I watched her successfully run her routine on a "turista". Later while she was dancing I caught her looking at me with a perplexed expression on her face.

So, not buying a drink for a girl that asks successfully eliminates the women that are there to hustle drinks. That eliminates the negative, but my goal is to accentuate the positive. I'm cruising to identify that small percentage of women that will become future amigas especiales. Those that understand "mejor para ambos" and eliminating the middleman. I only need to meet them at the clubs long enough to qualify them, establish "confianza", and get their phone numbers. Many times when I'm in the afterglow, I'll simply sit at the bar (which eliminates the hustling waiters) and observe las senoritas. You can see a lot by looking.

When I see someone that's scoring high on the "Ricardo Indicator", I generally go over and talk to her or ask her to dance. I'm screening to find out if she's on "our" team or the middleman's team. One of the ways is to observe her reaction when a waiter asks me to buy her a drink. She didn't ask for a drink, the waiter did. I say "No, gracious" and the waiter will eventually leave. Then I lean over in a conspiratorial manner and whisper in her ear, "Es mejor mi dinero para tu." (It's better my money for you.) The good ones get it, smile, and enthusiastically reply "Si !". That's the response of someone who's on our team and understands "disintermediation". The others that don't understand the invitation for a different game of "mejor para ambos" generally leave. That's fine with me as they didn't make the cut anyway.

I met one of my amigas especiales in Las Chavelas. I was admiring her dance. We exchanged eye contact and smiles. When she sat at a table, I joined her. Before I could get her name, a waiter appeared. "Una bebida para ella?" (A drink for her)? I leaned over and whispered in her ear so the waiter couldn't hear, "Una bebida o cinco bailes?" (A drink or five dances?). She waved her finger at the waiter signalling no, grabbed my hand, and led me to the dance floor. It was an auspicious beginning of many wonderful "fiestas" at Rick's Cafe Americain with una amiga especial. She didn't speak English, but she understood "disintermediation".

Regards,
RickFeliz

It's great to read honest and intelligent posts by you instead of the usual stuff. Thanks for your insightful and candid report.

Ricardo,

It's great to once again, have you posting your quality views.

A Fine example of making the best of our time en La Zona.


StrikeEagle

Mongers....read the posting above by RickFeliz and when you are finished.... read it AGAIN! This is about the most informative common, sense approach of how to out manipulate the waiters and chicas who force those fichas down your throat.....complete with Spanish phrases to help you.

Thanks RickFeliz for the great posting.

Kudos Rick!
A very educational post. I plan on trying this out next time I hit la Zona.

LTZ

Well said, Rick. A lot of time over the last 1 1/2 years I was in your situation and had a small stable of amigas speciales. At these times I can stay away from the ZN. If things change and I need to hunt for a new chica again I realize what I missed and how much fun the prowl is. Yes, most of the girls and waiters may scam and hustle you. But if it was easy to find a good chica with a decent heart and great body who is willing to anything you like for just under $100 all night, anybody could do it and it wouldnt't be fun anymore.

Rick, I also generally refuse to buy a drink for a girl who asks for it herself or who is obviously "hustling". There is one time when your approach can fail, however. Frequently, girls who are really new think that they are not allowed to sit with you unless you are buying drinks. That is because the managers and waiters tell them this when they are first hired. I have actually had girls turn down my offers to give the money straight to them instead of buying drinks, even though they understood that it would be far more profitable. Usually, the girls learn the real score within a couple of weeks, however.

You should have your own special section RF:
Lessons from RickFeliz

The continued insistence of bringing the cheese plate has been pissing me off. I'm considering refusing to buy drinks from Tropical and LC waiters altogether.

RickFeliz...It's a great post, but I'm probably swimming against the current asking you on this. Since your method or strategy involved eliminating the "middle man", my questions are:

1. Without the "middle man", would these ladies even possibly be and work at the bars?

2. Without the first "get-to-know" drink w/ the lady, how do we know what kinda personality she has? Thus, how would we have such "un buen tiempo" en Rick's Cafe in the future?

3. Are we all going to be 'just take the fruits and don't water the tree or in fact just don't plant the next ones'?

4. Whether you bought it from the club, or you bought it yourself for her then give her the difference, you still would be out the same amount.

Don't get me wrong, I'm totally against those rip-off $8 ficha drinks and cheese plates, but there're obvious costs of doing business for anyone. The owner has his expenses to pay for, and I have my cost of $8 to get to know my chick. I'm sure there're women at the clubs that would sit and talk to you w/o asking for a drink. But there're huge chances that those women might not be our type.

I don't have any problem w/ buying her a drink and sensing her for possible good time in the sack and future dining at the house of Sakebomb. One drink max and if she flushes it down, she isn't the one to be "dining" with Sakebomb in the future.

Just my take.

D'Artagnan I have had 100% success since I started using the following technique: When a waiter brings you a cheese plate, give it back (politely or not, it does not seem to matter) and do not give him a tip. Tell him that he would have gotten x amount (whatever you normally tip) had he not brought it. If you usually tip a dollar, show him the dollar as you say this and put it back in your pocket. If you then use the same waiter all night, not only will you never see another cheese plate that night, you will probably never get another cheese plate from that waiter ever, if you go to that bar on a regular enough basis for him to remember you. What has amazed me is not that this works, but that not one single waiter has acted mad when I told him he was not getting a cheese plate because of it, even when I was drunk and rude about it.

Sakebomb,

Thanks for the thoughtful response. Your questions are worth considering. Come let us reason together and as a team come up with the best strategy we can. I view my post as only version 1.0 of a "Guide to Cruising" and expect that all of us can come up with something better than one of us can. United we stand. Let's stop merely reacting to the cheese plate mentality of la zona and proactively start outwitting them. We've got an incredible tool for communicating and a wealth of experience. Let's start using it to our advantage. We haven't begun to push the envelope, yet.

I'll address each of your points in turn. I'm merely thinking aloud and know that there's at least two people reading what I say who could improve upon it.


Sakebomb says: "Since your method or strategy involved eliminating the "middle man", my questions are:

1. Without the "middle man", would these ladies even possibly be and work at the bars?"

Reply ----------------------------------
I agree that the clubs are performing a service in setting up the introduction. And IMHO they're entitled to compensation for doing that. Which they're getting. They've got an excellent business selling beer to the guys that come to their club to meet the ladies. Have you ever been in Adelitas in the daytime when the beer trucks unload a day's worth of beer. I didn't say beer truck. I said beer trucks (yes plural; actually it's more like a convoy).

Would the girls come to Tijuana from all over Mexico for the gringo dollar if the clubs weren't there. They would if there was a way to get the gringo dollar without the clubs. They don't come to Tijuana to work in the clubs. They come to Tijuana to get the gringo dollar. There seems to be a steady supply of Street Girls who come to Tijuana for the money and they don't work in the clubs. I think that's probably the strongest argument that the middleman isn't needed. Functionally all we need is a place to meet the girls. There doesn't have to be a middleman insinuating himself between us and the girls and extracting his cut. Let me ask a different question. How could we meet senoritas that want to go on paid dates with gringos without a middleman involved? I can think of one way - one of my amigas especiales set me up with her sister. I imagine that you can think of another way.


"2. Without the first "get-to-know" drink w/ the lady, how do we know what kinda personality she has? Thus, how would we have such "un buen tiempo" en Rick's Cafe in the future?"
--------------------
Reply: Don't misunderstand me. There are times when I want to get to know someone and will ask her if she "quieres una bebida?" (Do you want a drink?)
But I'm asking her because I want to meet her. That's different than her asking me because she makes her living hustling drinks. I've found that I can SEE "what kinda personality she has" by simply watching her from across a crowded room. How does she interact with her friends? Does she smile and kid around? How does she treat her customers? What's her rating on the Ricardo Indicator? Is she dressed like a slut? Is she dressed to go out on a respectable date?
What kind of shoes is she wearing? As I said in the "disintermediation" post,

"Many times when I'm in the afterglow, I'll simply sit at the bar (which eliminates the hustling waiters) and observe las senoritas. You can see a lot by looking."

-------------------------
"3. Are we all going to be 'just take the fruits and don't water the tree or in fact just don't plant the next ones'?"

Reply:
Your question implies that paying the middleman is watering the tree. Yes, it's watering the middleman's tree, but I'd rather water la senorita's tree. We are watering the tree when we treat the ladies nice so that they tell their friends and younger sisters that coming here is a good deal if they need the money. Also, I personally focus on thinking how I can contribute to a better life for my amigas especiales. Since I worked on one of the first CAI (Computer Assisted Instruction) projects for kindergarten through 12th grade, my personal contribution is to assist them in providing a good education for their kids. I was really impressed by my number one amiga especial when she told me that she figured out that giving her son a good education was more important than spending her money on clothes or toys. Instead of watering the club tree by buying her drinks I water her and her families tree by spending the money to buy Spanish/English books for her kids.
------------------------------------

"4. Whether you bought it from the club, or you bought it yourself for her then give her the difference, you still would be out the same amount."

Reply: I've having trouble understanding what your saying, here. I don't know what the "it" is that you're referring to. But, you seem to be saying that either way I'm spending the same amount of money. That's okay. Maybe I'm spending the same amount of money but getting a better payoff somewhere else. Knowing what the "it" is that you're referring to would be useful for responding more directly to your point.

------------------------------------------------
"I'm sure there're women at the clubs that would sit and talk to you w/o asking for a drink. But there're huge chances that those women might not be our type."

Reply: I don't know about you, but one of my amigas especiales HAS NEVER ASK ME TO BUY HER A DRINK. Sometimes I'll buy her a drink when I buy myself one just because it seems rude to order one for myself and not get her one. And she's made that one drink last 3-4 hours sometimes. She's absolutely georgeous and is "la diosa de la mamadas" (the goddess of blowjobs). I've known her for 4 years and she totally understands that it's better my money goes to her than to the bar.
-----------------------------------

"One drink max and if she flushes it down, she isn't the one to be "dining" with Sakebomb in the future."

Reply: I agree and think that's an excellent technique and recommend it to those guys that feel more comfortable getting to know her over a drink rather than dancing.

Sakebomb, it's nice to end our little discussion with something we both agree on. Thank you for taking the time to consider my post and respond with a thoughtful analysis.

Regards,
RickFeliz
"United we stand"

Lovesthezona,

"I plan on trying this out next time I hit la zona."

Great idea. Since I'm pretty well set up with amigas especiales I haven't actually done it in awhile. This is the part I tested last night:

"I'm screening to find out if she's on "our" team or the middleman's team. One of the ways is to observe her reaction when a waiter asks me to buy her a drink. She didn't ask for a drink, the waiter did. I say "No, gracious" and the waiter will eventually leave. Then I lean over in a conspiratorial manner and whisper in her ear, "Es mejor mi dinero para tu." (It's better my money for you.) The good ones get it, smile, and enthusiastically reply "Si !". That's the response of someone who's on our team and understands "disintermediation". The others that don't understand the invitation for a different game of "mejor para ambos" generally leave. That's fine with me as they didn't make the cut anyway."

I ran the experiment last night and initially was getting discouraged after 3 in a row left because I wasn't buying them a drink. Then I got a great answer from "Rita la senorita" in Playboy. She replied with an enthusiastic "Por supuesto" (Of course). So I ask her to dance and after 2-3 dances we sat down and I gave her $5. I got to meet her while dancing and talking. She shooed the waiters away. She made more money than she would have from the drink ficha's and it cost me less. "Mejor por ambos"

Also, Gaby de Tuluca in Adelitas gave a great answer, "Claro que si, mi amor" (That's clear, my love). She shooed the waiter away and I ask her to dance but she wasn't into dancing. I told her I was "mirando para una maestra de espanol" (looking for a spanish teacher). We spent a half hour with her teaching me "palabras de la fiesta" (party words). The best phrase I learned from her was "amigos con carino" (friends with affection). I really like that. Much better than novio/novia and right up there with "amigos especiales" (special friends). I gave her $5. One way of looking at it is that I switched from playing the middleman's game and buying her a drink for $7 of which she only gets $2 to playing my game and buying spanish lessons for $5 and ALL MY MONEY WENT TO HER. I got to talk to her and get to know her personality without buying her a drink. She made more money teaching me Spanish than hustling drinks. "Mejor para ambos".

Will you get a winner everytime? No. Last night 3 out of 5 ladies I tried it with left. 2 stayed and I had a great time with them. So I got 2 winners and 3 eliminated themselves from the running. I also like the fact that I spent no money on the 3 that eliminated themselves. You can't cut your losses any shorter than zero. So far I'm quite happy with the live field test. I'll be even happier and conclude the strategy is a winner if I get a new amiga especial out of it.

My dance card was full with my current amiga especial last night so I didn't go to the room with either of my two new candidates. However we did discuss "una fiesta" (a party) "en la futura" (in the future).

Regards,
RickFeliz

RF dude, that was certainly a well-thought out post and it lends itself to some creative solutions in the clubs. I'm sure everybody would love to give the $$ to the chicas and save dinero in the process.

Ya gotta also consider that for the chicas, getting ficha drinks could be considered part of their "rent" for working in the clubs. If I'm not mistaken (I'm sure we'll get various responses on this one), they need to accrue X amount of ficha drinks per night or pay a penalty. I've heard that some chicas aren't held responsible for this because they go up so much.

As far as dismissing chicas who gulp drinks down, I've had chicas who did this and then spent well over the paid time with yo. Most recently a chica gulped down not one, but two drinks. I took her up anyway cause we were hittin it off and she spent over two hours with me in da room. Besides, I enjoy buying the chicas a couple drinks and hanging out in the various clubs. Fun stuff.

I do like the creative approaches and will try em out. It's fun to run different approaches as the same ole can get boring. I love the approach about telling her you'll give her the money if she'll teach you spanish. I'll probably still buy at least one drink for the muchacha cause I'll need at least one cerveza to loosen the vocals myself.

I also find that my major expense in the zona by far are the chicas not the drinks. The relatively little dinero I spend on drinks are used to get to know a chica. The dancing option is fun but I find it easier to get it goin by sittin and chattin. Each to his own. Maybe I'm conditioned, pero me gusta hablar con las chicas con cervezas en la mesa.

As for the cheeseplate, an amigo and I were sitting in Tropical (not Tropicana btw) and a mesero took a cheeseplate away after we told him to. He took a few bites to mock the dumn gringos...when I found out he was gonna charge mi amigo anyway cause another mesero we couldn't identify had brought the plate I got pissed and he told me to calm down in a threatening tone. He just told me to blame it on the "stupid mexicans". I believe mi amigo ended up paying for the plate after I left. Total bs.

The Dog

RickFeliz...No, I should be the one to thank you for responding to my post in a "United We Stand" manner. We do agree on some thoughts and I'd rather be discussing our differences over couple (buckets) of beers in the future than beating the dead horse. For clarification purpose, the "it" I mentioned is the "bebida/cerveza/ficha drink", and you have guessed "it" right.

To stay w/i the context of the post, I have some first hand info which I'd like to provide to my fellow mongers:

1. Some of las chicas do have to meet quota set by the club they work for. At AB, it's 20 fichas/night and if they don't accquire enough, it costs 15pesos each to buy. At CC, it costs them 4bones each.

2. It's a nice gesture of us to defeat the system by buying them regular drink and giving the money to them, but the management and waiters do keep their eyes on these situations. Chicas would be warned and possibly be suspended from working if they constantly violated club rules. It's perfectly okay when she's off the clock.

3. During her employment, las chicas should not be making more than 2bones from her ficha drinks. She's making her money by selling her services in the sack. We all are doing her and her family a great favor by being her friend, treating her w/ respect, taking her to the room, and having hot steamy jungle sex.

4. Last, please don't beat up on those "dumb-ass" waiters. They're just forcefully doing their jobs. Why get your blood boiling up over a cheese plate when you could simply say: "No, no me gusta", or "No, no lo necessito", or worst "Pichee cabron, que te dije?" (fucking asshole, what did I tell you?)...okay...okay may be not the last one.

Mongering on fellow.

The cheeseplates were recently replaced by bags of chips. Sakebomb is right, the chicas are as much victims as anybody, but if I would cry about each farm-girl from Sinaloa who gets suckered into TJ by the La Tropa/TB recruitment team, I would be mighty depressed. I am rarely this blunt, but: "Fuck this place!"
I wish some of the cuter chicas here would work at a place where there is 1) sufficient lighting 2) resonable management 3) waiters who would not interrupt your conversation with the girl every 30 seconds to sell you something.
If ficherias are your game Las Chavelas is MUCH better, and even AB and CC have cute girls who ficha and the drink pressure is less intense.

I got that damn bag of chips also this weekend.
Don't these guys ever learn?????

Yes, they learn... but they need to be TAUGHT. Just like your dog doesn't learn unless you use a reward/punishment system, neither do the waiters.

I had one waiter there on Sunday who had a bag of chips on his tray. When he asked what I wanted to drink I simply told him I would NOT order from any waiter who was pulling the potato chip scam.

When a table opened up by the dance floor, the waiter I bought my drink from grabbed it and waved me over. I bought another drink from him and gave him $5. From then on he protected me like I was royalty, even chewing out another waiter who wanted to sell me a drink.

Reward/punishment. Eventually, especially if they recognize you, it works.

BTW, waiter #25 is a CROOK. He has (tried to) scam several people that I know with the bill switch, plus he sold me an extra ficha drink by telling me the gal was comming back. She didn't....

Hey Tomas, read your damned email once in awhile! I'm still here, looks like a trip south ain't happening. Will only leave TJ when I'm BROKE or my dick falls off, bith of which should happen by tonight. But TONIGHT should be a lot of fun.

Oh, and the bag of chips... Got them at Chavelas last night, from a waiter I thought was cool. Figured my girlie was hungry. They might be bad chips too, as she passed out asleep on my chest in the booth 1/2 hour after eating them! Couldn't be my sparkling conversation skills, now could it???

Damnit, I was just down there today(Tuesday) to get my tooth worked on by that denist across the street from La Tropa.....

I came within a HEARTBEAT of staying and having a couple of beers. DAMNIT!!!!

Porker
When are you gonna tell the rest of us that funny arrest story?

Soon.

Just be careful next time you order a rum and a coke.

Revenge

Yesterday, I saw an interview with the author of the book "Revenge". I'm been intrigued with the concept since reading Shakespeare. He's often described as a master of understanding human nature. The fact that his plays have lasted 500 years indicates that he's tapped something very basic and unchanging. What's confused me is the prevalence of revenge in his plays. I've experienced the desire for revenge but it doesn't seem to be a major motivating factor in my life. Possibly because I tend to think in terms of costs/benefits instead of reacting emotionally. However, maybe it plays a larger part in human affairs than I'm aware of - particularly among the feelers.

The author of Revenge made a very interesting comment. She said that people seek revenge not for devastating reasons but for small insults.
A devastating offense is exactly that - devastating. The aggrieved party becomes discouraged and gives up. It's the smaller insults that lead to violence and reciprocal rounds of tit-for-tat revenge. Some people become enraged when another driver cuts them off or a waiter trys to short-change them, etc.

I plan on investigating this further. If what she says is true, it would explain the explosive anger some of the guys have posted about receiving from some of the chicas for going with another girl. It also explains the surprising strength of the anger I experienced when the waiter and manager at Tropical "insulted my intelligence" with the abominable cheese plate.

Based on her exploration of the issue, the author of Revenge recommends treating everyone with respect or destroying them. Avoid giving small insults. I think this is probably a wise course of action in Tijuana. Particularly around people who are highly emotional. I'm sticking with the goal of making her look good in front of her friends and giving no offense - no matter how small.

Regards,
RickFeliz

Now that the "cheese plate" thread has been put to use again, I think it is a good time to report the cheese plate news.

I have been going to Tropical almost every week now for months and the cheese plate scam has not been pulled by the waiters.

Last night a waiter actually asked us guys at the table if we wanted to by a bag of chips (what an amazing concept of asking someone to buy something rather than scaming). As it turned out, one of our group bought one (see there you waiters, you can sell by asking).

Overall, I have been very pleased with the waiters and waitresses at Tropical this year. I have experienced a lot of good times there.

dt

Revenge - an ugly emotion that has ruined many things. It's not sweet.

The best revenge is when the other party knows you want it and you don't act upon it. I've been through this several times, and taking the high road, acting like it's no big deal, has always worked out for the best. Of course these were petty things. As far as the "islamic" extremists, 911, etc. (your author) is concerned - I say destroy them, even if they say uncle. Revenge is warrented.

I wonder what type of revenge my AB chica especial would wrought if I caused her to lose face. Yikes!!!

I also heard an interview with this woman author, an interesting story.

I don't usually get too much pressure from the waiters. If I think I'm going to be there more than about 10 miutes, I sit down. At which point, I expect I must have a drink, whether from the bar, or from the mesros.

I've sometimes been served a large - perhaps 1 liter - bottle of water, my usual beverage of choice in Tijuana. Most times, it is a small bottle. I've tried asking for the large, and gotten some answer I did not quite understand. Something about, it's only available when you drink with the Señoritas (which is even more infrequent). Can someone tell me how to get the large bottle, short of buying a ficha? At the same time, even if I do run out of water from the small bottle, it is not usually a big deal. I usually bring a bottle w/ me, in a backpack.

The backpack bottle led to an ultimatly amusing incident. During one of the 2 for 1 drink special times, I ordered 2 bottles of water, and went to pay for one. They said, the special only applies to beer. Then get me two bottles, and don't open either one. ''We have to open one.'' At some point, the question was raised, ''Do you want us to get the police?'' So, I said, bring me both beers. I put one in my pack, poured out my water form my bottle, and, after a few leisurly sips that lasted the duration of the strip show, poured the rest of the beer into the bottle.

INS did not have a problem w/ it either. The duty-free import amount is absurdly little, 2 or 3 bottles. They tell me it is due to California law.

I agree w/ Rick on observing the women in ways other than just drinking w/ them. I dance with them. If I like what I see - and sense - then I might ask them out to dinner, if I'm the least bit hungry. That gives me more opportunity to evaluate them, and build a friendship. For the price of a ficha drink, we can carry on a real conversation, outside of the din of the bar. I have had, incidentally, 4 semester hours of Spanish, which is not a lot, but enough for a fair bit of gabbing. And, I bring along a translator/calculator.

Nor am I much of an expert at dancing. I mostly try not to step on anyone's toes!

While engaged in booth romance jesterday a kind waiter brought over a bag of chips when I ordered another ficha drink to see if my chica was hungry. I thanked him for his thoughtfulness and told him he was a credit to his profession. Though it was a longshot, I took the opportunity to see if he knew anyone that could deliver us some roses and stuffed animals right there at the convenience of our table. He promised to look into it for me.

Okay, I guess this is the correct thread I should be complaining on. I was in Tropical Bar last week and recognized an old flame from the Las Chavelas across the street.

Her name is Edith. On this particular night, she was working at the Tropica Bar. I sat down at the table with her and asked her what was she doing there, considering I know she works at the LC. She told me she no longer works at LC and is now employed at Tropical Bar.

No sooner had I sat down beside her for not more than ten seconds, when a short fat waiter, #30 moves on in to scam his prey. Naturally I buy the chica a drink, knowing that I'm going to pay ficha prices. And I order a brew for myself also.

He comes back with the drinks and change, but also on the tray was a large bag of chips that I clearly didn't remember either one of us ordering. I carefully pick up the change, fully examine every coin, and while doing so, pick up the bag of chips from his tray and tell him not only did I NOT order a bag of chips, but I wasn't stupid enough to pay for something I know I didn't order.

He apologizes and says he didn't know. Didn't know what? Of course he knew. And so does the Management know. They all know. They're all in on it. Anyway, I didn't feel the need to tip him because I felt he was trying to rip off another unsuspecting dumb Gringo tourist who doesn't know any better.

I explained to the chica the waiters in the bar here are all thieves and scam artists. I remember the discussion posts of the pasts about the $20 switches. These are the reasons I hardly ever order from the waiters in here.

So be warned my fellow mongers- Tropical Bar waiters are up to their old tricks again. from now on, it's straight to the bar when ordering drinks from this clip joint.

Remember the waiters number: 30


M. Bates.

(Message edited by masterbates on May 01, 2004)

Word is On the WEB

MBates, Thanks for the heads up. My plan is to go in, look around, tell them I heard about them on the website and would not be staying until the "reports" were better, then turn arond and walk out.

I got hit hard at the El Pollo last week. Broadsided big time. Are we in the minority or is it that members don't care enough to actually go in there and tell these guys that the word is out on the web? If they know this do you think it might have an effect or are we pissing into the wind?

Country John

It isn't my intention to defend TJ scams...I think it is right to complain to the perps every single time and report the bad episodes you experience to your fellow mongers. BUT...you guys do yourselves a favor and calm down (certainly a vet like you MB) and realize that: of course they are fully aware of the web connection among the gringo clientele, and that these kinds of things are as much a natural part of the TJ environment as a Joshua Tree in the Mojave Desert, and that once you become aware of them (as all veteran readers of these TJ sites do in short order), that they will always "take the scam back" as they did in MBs case.

Scammitry, cons and thievery are common ingredients of every red light district I've ever become familiar with in North America. The Vice trade draws scum plain and simple. It is a silly waste of negative energy in a good times setting to get tremendously upset about it. This is a "comes with the territory" cliche. I've been the target of scams a hundred times or more in TJ but was SUCCESSFULLY scammed only once (yes, the pinche cheeseplate of days past when I restrained the extent of my protest only because I was in the company of a very special chica and didn't want to poison a good environment). I have to admit that I even take a sort of perverse pleasure in anticipating scams, catching them, and tossing them back - part of the dark exotic draw of a movie set like the zona norte...THANK GOD I'm away from those fucking ugly L.A. minmalls and prophylactic suburban wastelands for a period of time. Believe me guys, you won't like what you see when La Coahuila becomes "Citywalk".

Have a blast in TJ and every other vice den, but be prepared to wage calm battle the filthy elements - they will go away eventually in TJ though not very soon...and at that time TJ will be marketed more like DejaVu and Spearmint Rhino stripclubs and we won't like it one bit.

Oh and btw, you can assign all of your anger to the waiters, but the chica sitting at your side with her hand on your thigh is in on it too. I would be surprised if they don't get a kickback as they do when you buy the flowers and stuffed bears from the vendors when they sell the goods back after you've cleared the entrance to the street. Many a BT chica has asked me please to accept the Doritos when the scam comes and I'm about to turn it back...and if they tear open the bag and eat the poisonous shit and feed a good amount of it to me, I'm not going to let it get me down.

I have to agree with Erip. This is par for the course ANYPLACE that sex is for sale.

Two little stories:

I am in LC one day, and have a cutie with her head on my shoulder. Her ficha drink comes, and I give the waiter a $20. I ALWAYS make a mental note of the waiters number and what he looks like when I am expecting change. This was number 34.

He does come back, but at a moment when a lot was going on - the photo guy has just shown us the polaroid he took, and an amigo stopped by to say hello. I am somewhat aware of the waiter in the background, but he leaves. I expect he will be back.

Twenty minutes go by, and another ficha drink appears. I didn't order it, but this chica has figured out that I am in for the long haul, so I am not upset. Same waiter, number 34. He says "Seven dollars please". I look him in the eye and say "You never gave me change from the last one".

He instantly puts six dollars on the tray and presents it to me. I pick up the five and leave him $1 as a tip.

Yes, he "tried" to scam me. But hey, I got away with two drinks for $1 tip instead of the usual $1 per drink that I pay!!

Second story:

This is a story going around the Nevada boards. Short version: well known Internet presence lady working at a brothel in Nevada meets poster. They have talked via email, know what kind of party he wants. He took the "free" limo from Vegas to the brothel.

He didn't know the limo gets 30% of his money for that "free" service. The lady sure did, but is not "allowed" to tell him.

Bottom line: He gets a 17 minute party for his $1,200.

Yes, you read that correctly: He paid SEVENTY DOLLARS A MINUTE!!

That's one thing I love about TJ: even if I DO get ripped off, or have a bad session.... I am not out more a few bucks (OK, a bad session - maybe $100).

I can't agree with the statements about how every place sex is for sale there are scams. With respect to North America, many of the Asian massage parlors are quite honest although some may not be. In Mexico you do have to be on guard; e.g., I have had the $20 switcharoo pulled on me (once in Nuevo Laredo) and certainly have had some of the sorts of problems at the Tropical Bar in TJ described above, although I have avoided TJ for the last five or six years and can't speak to things in TJ currently.
When you get out of the U.S. "sphere of influence" though, things get much better. While Erip's post made clear it was describing the situation in North America (although it is unclear whether he means to include Canada), Curious's post extended Erip's point to "ANYPLACE that sex is for sale." Having traveled throughout the world, I have to disagree with this conclusion. The problems described above are most likely to occur in the U.S. and Mexico, and much much less likely to occur in most other locales. Anyone have significantly different experiences?

All you're going to do by continually "correcting" hotels, bars & meseros on the "games" they try to play and to boldly state that you're going to "boycott" their business is make the zona a smaller and smaller playground for you as time goes on.

CJ: These games are NOT going to stop...except they will decrease for you if you volley their spikes gracefully and matter-of-factly and just HAVE A GOOD TIME!

LAGuy,

I'll answer your question with a country-by-country list.

Canada - straight up, no scams.
US - are you kidding? Scam whenever possible.
Mexico - try and scam even when not possible.
Panama - overpriced, but no real scamming.
Honduras - straight up.

Brasil - termas straight up (except for occasional confused room upgrade request), escorts straight up, bar/beach girls is whatever you negotiate. Plenty of low-level scams everywhere though. The Brasil version of the Tropical scam is the couvert - the appetizer platter. It costs maybe $R5, and actually isn't a bad plate (fruit, some veggies, maybe some shrimp) but the waiters tend to only push it on tourists. Note - this is not a puta-bar cheese plate scam. The "optional" couvert is brought out at all kinds of restaurants, even expensive ones. The waiter brings it out and just kind of waives it around and asks someone at the table if they would like it. Now, they don't mention that it costs money, but many tourists (read: dipshit Americans) tend to think this is some free sampler plate or something. But, the waiters do ask beforehand, so not really a scam, just a blatent attempt to push unneeded product.

Israel - straight up.
Holland - straight up, and regimented.
Germany - straight up, and really regimented.
Italy - straight up.
France - legit.
Spain - Legit as it gets.
Britain - Anyone dumb enough to monger in the UK deserves to overpay for bad service, and get clipped along the way.
Korea - generally ok
Japan - expensive and straight up

In Panama, the cab drivers that park in front of hotels and push massage parlors have a scam where they imply or will outright lie about waiting for you (when you're in a massage parlor or for whatever reason) then later charge you $20 per hour of waiting. Other than that, all the clubs and massage parlors are scam-free.

I didn't experience nor have I heard of any scams in Argentina, Costa Rica, the Dominican Republic, or Guatemala.

The scam is the game. . ...

How long has the zona been around - 50 years? Who knows? The scum that cycles through the place gets shiftier with every new crew. What are we to expect? There will always be a fresh supply of newbies to fleece (and a few stupid vets) so I agree with 'yal that these guys (and girls) are not at all concerned about their "reputation."

My philosophy has always been to treat these people with respect and dignity. What we (I) need to do is temper it with the right element of distrust. No question about it, the girl who got you by the balls feels the wallet, not the balls. If you get away with a happy ending without losing the farm you've done alright. I'm always prepared to drop $150.00 or so in the Zona but I've been losing a bit more on the scams etc. The part about selling the teddy bears back is a new one on me. I never bought any for the girl, but I did buy flowers one time and I thought I saw a girl give them back to the vendor when the guy left so when I bought these I took them all apart and put one in her hair, in her bra, I think I ate one, etc and I noticed her panic a bit when I took them apart. Makes sense now. Jeez, so much to know, so little time.

Masterbates I am surprised he didnt bring you 2 bags of chips.

MB is 1 taco short of a combination plate anyway. He once posted that he walked into La Tropa and a waitress asked if he wanted a table and he said he want gonna fall fro that scam.
To this day I often wonder what scam thas was.

I agree with Erip on this