Grunto3 said:
>>>Why not DO your "due diligence" and check my FACTS on the house etc<<<

ok. I will toss a few questions to you regarding the house.
1. Since you gave your interest back to the original owners, will income, transfer, or gift taxes apply. If yes on any of the three taxes, please explain.
2. When are income, transfer or gift taxes due when selling Mexican Real Estate?
3. were there any other information requirement forms you filled out when you gave back the property? If yes, explain

I'll get you started on the above simple but very specific questions. Lets see how you do!

My angle, which i've already explained, is your story seems too contrived.

WHAT ARE YOU?? A FUCKING IRS AGENT?? LIKE I SAID CALL MY RE AGENT AGUSTIN AT 664-685-1955 GRUPO OMARSA. NOOOO THAT WOULD BE TOOOOO EASY. AS I SAID THE HOUSE IS LOCATED AT 1793 CALLEJON LUIS MOYA TALK TO THE NEIHBORS. TALK TO JAIME THE ELECTRICAL MECHANIC OUT FRONT. WORKS OUT OF HIS HOUSE. HE SAW AND WITNESSED EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED!!! NO THAT TO WOULD BE TOOOO FUCKING EASY!!! ILL GET YOU STARTED ON THAT.

YOU ARE PADROTE DAMAGE CONTROL.....

(Message edited by grunt03 on November 13, 2004)

DONT YOU WANT MY HIV POS TEST RESULTS!! IT WOULD SEEM THAT WOULD BE THE MORE IMPORTANT ISSUE HERE, DIDNT TAKE ME UP ON THAT EITHER DID YOU!!!

(Message edited by grunt03 on November 13, 2004)

It seems that one reason why Citaly may have done what she did is that she perceived that you were insane. At least, to the point that you cannot find your Caps Lock key.

What kind of meds are you on now?

exp, antiretrovirals.....JUST TIRED....

"This chica is butt fucking ugly. That's all I really have to say on the subject."

That was my impression seeing the photos but I saw her working friday. Better looking then her photos. I was tempted to go ask her if her padrote's first name was "Due" and last name "diligence".

Grunt03:

I sincerely want to wish you my condolences. In my opinion, no man or woman deserves to be stricken with this horrible disease of HIV/AIDS. I have always felt that no human being (puta/crook/or not) deserves to suffer with this disease.

I hope that a cure will come for you some day. Moreover, I hope that your body is 'more resistent' against this disease; there is a rare minority of people who do not get AIDS complex, but, considering that you already have symptoms of cervical lymphadenopathy, I am fearful that you are not likely one of these fortunate few.

It is evident that vengeance is on your mind, but you need to do more than simply smite this puta out. You have done your duty in 'outing' this girl. Now, you need to do your best to save yourself.

I hope that you have a strong family/friend network who can share in your pain and support you. I also hope that you have seen an HIV counselor. I do not have this disease, but I have seen too many people with this disease in the clinics and hospitals that I serve.

God bless and stay strong.

-play274

If you really bought this house you could answer my questions. Calling this person or that person doesn't prove anything. These are questions you could answer if you bought a house there.

Believe me, I think this girl took advantage of you. I've never judged you for that or made this personal by saying this girl is ugly. The truth, IMO, is probably somewhere in the middle, but probably not anywhere near your version.

Again I have no doubt grunto bought her a house.
He is probably one of hte biggest PLMs I have seen on this board next to Ben and a few others.
This is all his own fault, I do wish him well and feel real sorry but how stupid can one person be? Seriously.
Again these girls want nothing to do with PLMs they all have tuff guy boyfriends they take care of and just use whiteys at thier convience.
He says Pagan can back what he says and Pagan is a trustworthy guy in my opinion.
I also have no problem meeting Grunto to view his test results but not sure he would want to meet me so Pagans word would be just fine.
i meet many guys from these boards and honestly don't know how many function in real life.
how an uneducated girl who went no farther than the 3rd grade can dupe some poor College educated guy.
it just doesnt make sense to me????

I have no doubt that Citali duped this guy, she probably stole the silverware from the house, stole whatever loose cash was around or anything else of value, and was bonking her boyfriend while claiming to be madly in love with Gruntman. Whether Grunt has la SIDA, is another question.

However, if we were to avoid all chicas who were thieves and had novios, well, the Zona would be a big empty spot. Even if this chica does have HIV, condoms will take care of that, so:

a) use a condom with Citali, unless you have a death wish;

b) don't lend her any money or let her into your apartment.

c) remember that she has a main squeeze already, so don't be stupid.

Give her the $20, have fun, and remember to wear a condom. Thanks for the heads up, Gruntman!

As some of you know, I was in-love (perhaps in-stupid is more accurate) with a woman last year but I became greatly troubled by a pattern of secrecy I could never quite understand. She was a quiet, shy girl, brand new to the street. I offered my heart and she seemed to accept. I wanted to trust her and she kept telling me I should but something just was not kosher. She broke it off in December shortly after I moved to TJ, but reestablished contact in August. Somehow I was not suprised when Grunt called me in September and said he found my phone number on his girl-friends phone. I had the sorry task of telling him that Citlali was my girlfriend when they met and had been together throughout the first six months of their relationship and when they had gotten engaged. A little more investigation uncovered that her ¨neighbor¨ was actually her padrote who had brought her to TJ and that they had an apartment together the whole time she was with both of us. Grunts story about the house and wedding plans is true. I have seen the house and she had friends of mine over to visit. Strangely, throughout most of our relationship we did not have sex. She became ill shortly after I met her and the Doctor said she had chronic PID and should not have sex. Our major conflict was that I was supporting her sans sex but I kept on finding her out on the street working after she had promised not to. Well, it turns out her original sickness last year was that she came to TJ pregnant and lost/aborted(?) but continued banging her Mex boyfriend and other customers which led to the PID. As to the HIV, who knows? I spoke to her today. She insists that she is healthy and that she never had sex with Grunt without a condom. Hard to believe with a live-in fiance but I know that she absolutely refused to do me uncovered, or to let me go down on her, or to even kiss for that matter. She showed me her health card complete with stamps going back to last year, the latest being Nov 5, 2004. Of course it is not difficult to buy false health cards. I confess that I have never met an HIV positive man who contracted it strictly through heterosexual contact. Statisically it appears to be very rare. But rare does not mean impossible and I can not imagine why anyone would damn himself to exclusion from the TJ scene just to get back at a loca. Sort of like cutting off your dick to spite your face. I have spoken with Grunt on the phone and the hurt and fear in his voice are real. I have no reasone to disbelieve Grunt, on the other hand we all have secrets and for most of you he is just another poster whose character is unknown so you will believe or disbelieve as you choose. He tells me that the TJ Health Authorities have been informed and we can hope that they take her in and have her tested. Until then....

Whoa, this is getting waaaaaaay too confusing! Pagan has Citali as a "girlfriend" even though there is no sex, she is sneaking out to work on the street, she is living with Grunt and has her padrote on the side?

Quoting Milkman:"He says Pagan can back what he says and Pagan is a trustworthy guy in my opinion.
I also have no problem meeting Grunto to view his test results but not sure he would want to meet me so Pagans word would be just fine."

In reading Pagan's post a couple of times, he says the hurt and fear in Grunt's voice are real, and he has no reason to disbelieve him. But Pagan didn't comfirm the real issue of the day here. Is Grunt HIV+ or is he on a campaign to slander the girl that conned him?

The issue here isn't the fact that Grunt bought a house, got screwed over it, etc. Calling the neighbors, the electrician that lives out front, the real estate agent all can attest to his (lack of) prowness on the circumstances surrounding the home.

I'd like to be wrong, but I'm not convinced this isn't an act of revenge.

As far as Due Diligence being the padrote or whatever bullshit our CAP-LOCK using buddy was flinging, it's just that. Bullshit. If you want your story to have credibility, stay on point.

RJ

RJ

On point, something a grunt can understand.

True, Pagan didn't confirm anything...besides that there IS a house. His phone conversations with Grunt are all just heresay and, more importantly, just further prove Grunt's obsessiveness

Great points ranchojeffrey. Accusing me of being a padrote plant, although humorous, takes away from Grunt's credibility. Never met or seen the parties involved, and nor do I want to.

I do feel bad and have compassion for Grunt03. This girl probably took advantage of him, and has caused pain. However, his story doesn't pass the "smell test". I have no idea what the truth is.

We all seem to agree on the basics of Grunt's story, that he got taken for a ride by this SG, and maybe Pagan was a passenger, too. The only question is whether Grunt was so upset by all this that he has now decided to try to get revenge by disrupting the chica's business by claiming she is HIV+. Of course, by continually posting about her, he is drumming up business for her.

The other day, I was in the Zona, and some other monger was actually looking for Citali to give her some business.

"The other day, I was in the Zona, and some other monger was actually looking for Citali to give her some business."

Based on her photos she's not my type but after all these revelations I almost have a morbid desire to meet the sg who has pulled off two major scams

Unfortunately any additional "customers" will probably be HIV infected people that figure she has already got it...I dont think all people with HIV forego sex..It would stand to reason that they would use areas such as the zona.

Gruntman, actually, on the basis of your posts, a lot of guys are probably banging Citali right now, using condoms. The curiosity factor has got to be pretty high, what the heck does this chica have to scam not one but two gringos at the same time?

Just a couple of points. I did not say that we never had sex. It was great in the beginning. Then she started getting Pelvic Inflammatory Disease regularly. I bought her antibiotics per Doctors prescriptions and told her that I would support her since she should not work and her income supposedly supported her sick mother and 14 year old sister in Puebla. What can I say? I was in love. I had asked her to marry me. I was concerned for her health and I wanted her to have a better life. My frustration was that she kept on working because (she said) her family needed the money. I did not know I was actually supporting her padrote boyfriend as well.

Strangely enough she and I are on remarkably good terms. I think it is because despite the fact that I was lied to, all the signs were there for me to see and I chose not to. Perhaps I am jaded but years of being victimized by women has not made me bitter. I just think most women are users looking for a mark. My response when I found out about all this was to confront her with it calmly, then I took her upstairs, paid her $30 and fucked her.

I talked to Citlali extensively about the house, suggesting that since she would not be able to benefit by it she should just sign it back to Grunt, if for no other reason than to temper his anger. She said she would think about it but nothing came of it. I know that they split on harsh terms and she is pretty angry with him. Could be she thinks he might want to deal to get to release her interest. It could also be that padrote is in the wings suggesting that Grunt might deal. I know he holds a great deal of power over her.

As to the big question. Grunt seems ernest in his claim to have HIV. Whether it is from Citlali who knows? Perhaps Grunt has engaged in other high risk activity. Again, who knows? If you think Grunt is merely attacking her to hurt her business your welcome to your opinion. However, I for one will not be shopping in that market until I know that the local Health Authorities have checked her out.

By the way, she is much prettier that her picture but certainly is not the petite, shy thing she was a year ago.

Pagan, your post begs the obvious question.

"My response when I found out about all this was to confront her with it calmly, then I took her upstairs, paid her $30 and fucked her."

Thank God you didn't say, "and made love to her"!

Ding-ding-ding...gentlemen...this is PLing to the max. Pagan's confessionals are almost too bitterly honest.

Grunt PMed me (as one of his critics/doubters) telling me that Milkman has the info to obtain the HIV info. Pagan's last post opens up the door to whether Grunt had HIV first and in turn gave it to the chica (hence, her getting angry). I guess if that was the case, he'd be dead because her padrote wouldn't waste the time posting endliessly on this board about it.

Whatever the outcome of tests, inquiries, accusations, & any other step in this mess might be...I hope at least you two (plus any other lurkers out there) have learned a valuable lesson about love (NOT) in TJ!

Well, I forgot to tell you that the first thing Grunt did was to box up all the clothes he had bought her a give them away to the neighbors. I think she is also mad because I heard that her padrote beat her up when he found out she had been caught and the free ride was over. I know this sounds fucked up but I think in a weird puta way she blames Grunt for finding out and getting her beat up.

By the way, I think love can be found in TJ, just don´t look for it on Cohuila.

"I heard that her padrote beat her up when he found out she had been caught and the free ride was over"

Let me guess, you heard about it in the local newspapers?

pagan the padrote must be a math wiz, lets see 70000 house divided by 20 bucks a trick, 3500 times up the stairs, could take quite a while to recoup the loss. Yeah he sure is pissed enough to beat Citlali's ass. I just wonder how she got involved with this asshole anyway. Do you think she was sold into this shit or what?? Two cows for the family. Anybody know how these padrotes operate?

I can tell you how the padrotes operate, at least down in Puebla. They recruit single moms (or chicas otherwise who are down and out), and after wining and dining them, they come up with the great idea of a trip to the USA, via Tijuana. Once in TJ, they announce that visas and passports are necessary to cross the border, and since they don't have those, someone must get a job. The next thing, the chica is led down to the Zona, and off to work she goes.

Most of the padrotes in the Puebla area live in Tenancingo, which is near the Volkswagen plant.

BTW, the sure way to tell if a SG has a padrote is to ask her how she got to TJ, and if she tells you that an "amiga" bought her a one way ticket to TJ, and then led her to the Zona, without having first clued her in on the deal, that's code for "my padrote brought me here".

Another way to find out if she has a padrote is look on the street if she is working there is padrote plain and simple.

Her story was, "I told my mother I was going to work in a factory in Mexico City, but I flew alone to TJ." Sure she did. I get most of my info directly from her. The story of her being beaten I got from her friends on the street when I didn't see her out for about two weeks. A couple of statistics. When she first came to TJ she was 17. Her padrote is 32. She says she's in love. I am forever amazed at the absolute control so many of these worthless little pieces of shit hold over their girlfriends down here. I hold no particular grudge against her, but I wish his parents had encouraged him to play in the middle of the street.

Question - What does the stripper do with her asshole every night before she goes to work?

Answer - She drops him off at band practice.

I'm now convinced this story is basically bullshit, in part or in whole. I just can't imagine someone learning they were HIV+ and then spending so much time obsessing over this puta, and then trying to convince everyone (none of whom he knows personally) that he's telling the truth. Aren't there more important things to be worried about? What's with the "let's meet and I'll show you my test results" attitude? Something just doesn't seem right here. Originally I was very concerned about the report of female to male HIV transmission (which is statistically much more rare than vice versa). Now I'm feeling better about the likelihood of that happening in this case. Maybe it was the other way around???

Maverick: worded perfectly! Now Grunt is channeling Jerry Seinfeld, "What's with these padrotes?".

Hi fellow amigos

I have always spoken the truth about what I think about certain people. Perhaps that is why Grunt pmed me with his access number for his test results. Well, I called today and gave them the unique 11 number access code for my test results. A counselor came on and said positive and I asked how likely that it was false and he said these type of test results are 99.9 percent accurate and that their company has never been wrong.

I am shaking as I am writing this. It was like talking to a grim reaper. It was like I was grunt just hearing the results for the first time. My voice broke down and he was very consoling. He then said we have lots of resources you can use and was gonna give me numbers to various agencies and places that will help me in my time of need.

I now have no doubts that Grunt has HIV.
My question now is have you ever shared needles or fucked this puta in the ass or have you been fucked in the ass and these are serious questions.

Again I now believe Grunt has proved he has HIV.

If it was me I would leave the board and come back as an Alias and let people know that I tested positive and the girls that I have been with. I would make sure everyone was aware and that would be that.

Please guys be safe and Grunt I wish you the best
Milky

Unless, of course, its the access number for someone other than Grunt.

Right explorer
he went down to Hillcrest and bought a access number that just so happend to be on the exact dates that he mentioned. I look foward to seeing you at the next fiesta

---

quote:

Maverick said "...I just can't imagine someone learning they were HIV+ and then spending so much time obsessing over this puta, and then trying to convince everyone (none of whom he knows personally) that he's telling the truth. Aren't there more important things to be worried about? What's with the "let's meet and I'll show you my test results" attitude? Something just doesn't seem right here."

---

---

quote:

Maverick said "Originally I was very concerned about the report of female to male HIV transmission (which is statistically much more rare than vice versa). Now I'm feeling better about the likelihood of that happening in this case..."

---

Oh yeah...and speculation that Grunt is sophisticated enough to have all this evidence prepared and ready when he got completely worked over by a Hotel Najera street girl seems a stretch to me.

(No offense intended towards Grunt or others that fall for street girls.)

Be safe guys...cover the johnson!

Pagan....your first thought was to give her $30 and fuck her after being told by Grunt he tested HIV from his contact with her.....don't you know condoms are known to break!

As far as HIV testing.....you don't think the testing center is wondering why there are numermous calls coming in on one test.

I have to agree with "due diligence" there are too many holes in the story!

If Grunt did throw away $40,000 he would have much incentive to trash this girl's reputation and for alot less than $40,000 he could find someone positive with HIV to give him a blood sample to send in to back his story.

Grunt seems abscessed with chasing her out of the Zona and by "chance" ran into to her and her boy friend out shopping.

I am in the Real Estate and Mortgage business and Grunt hasn't explained how he gave the house to the original owners without her consent after he made a big deal how he has a copy of her birth certificate to put the tiltle in both his and her name!

Yeah, a test-result number, without anything more, doesn't say alot. One of my best friends is in the porn biz, and has to do the test call-in stuff every 45 days. In his industry, when an HIV+ hit comes up, everybody seems to find out and it spreads like wildfire. I bet I could get a "confidential" number from him if he and I really wanted to.

beachman,

There are various informational returns that must be filed when gifting property in Mexico as well. These returns would have to be filed before the property could be given back. When I asked him about this, I was given the typical "call this person or that person". I've done a lot of due diligence regarding Mexican Real Estate. I'm a licensed realtor in the state of California, and real estate transactions are much more complex in Mexico with foreign buyers. OT: When buying real estate in Mexico ALWAYS use a reputable attorney to write up the contract, and ONLY negotiate the economics with the real estate agent.

Grunt03, you may not believe it, but I really feel bad at what happened to you.

Due diligence-

I am licensed in several states as both a Real Estate Broker and a Mortgage Broker and I couldn't agree with you more! You just don't give back property to original owners after you went through the process of getting her birth cerificate to make sure title was in both of their names. Isn't it funny how out of all the houses in TJ..... Grunt just happens to buy one the is next door to where her boyfrnd is living.

Milkman ......you are right how does a girl with maybe a 3rd grade education outsmart college educated Gringos.

I would highly recommend any of you Hombres who are like Grunt and Pagan to strongly consider getting some professional counseling before you ruin your lives falling in love with a street girl in TJ!

"Yeah Pauncho, the rest of the card is Rodriguez Tellez. From San Pablo Del Monte, Tlaxcala Puebla. When i bought the house i had a copy of her birth certificate. Still have it, wonder what to do with it. Any suggestions????"

The first thing you should do is to get her a real one that doesn't list two different states on it. Its like having a birth certificate that say "so and so was born in Phoenix, Colorado Arizona".

BTW, her little town is literally in walking distance of Tenancingo. That is the home of the padrotes in Puebla, and that is where your money is.

For Beachman. First, I took her up and fucked her back in September when I first learned she had jerked us around and almost two months before Grunt got tested. Second, I don't know where you got the impression that his house is next door to her boyfriend. His place is across the river from Plaza Rio. Her's and boyfriend's is in the hills northwest of Colonia Independencia.

There seems to be a lot of concern about the dynamics of how one gives back a property. Given Grunts mindset at the time of the breakup it was easy. The house is in Mexico, he is in the US. He didn't give a shit and walked away. I understand latter he contacted the owners and they worked something out.

If you have any doubts about the veracity of the house story just go ask her. You may have to wait a bit however. Her street friends told me she she took off for Mexico City yesterday which probably means she's gone home to Puebla. She said for two weeks but who knows. Of course the real question is from where did Grunt contract the HIV. We know that it can remain in the system undetected for quite some time. Whether he got it from her is moot. What is pertenent is that he MAY have gotten it from her OR may have shared it with her. This constant yakking back and forth will not answer the question. Her coming forth and requesting a formal test from the Health Department would have gone a long way towards settling at least one issue. I suggested to her that she do that. She decided instead to leave town. Personally, I am still not convince that she has it, but I sure would like to see her get tested.

I've been following this thread silently for awhile b/c I don't know any of the players involved and I don't know much about TJ. But my interest is piqued as a Monger b/c if this story about female-male HIV transmission is true, then this is a wakeup call for all of us. We need more certainty as to where and how Grunt got HIV. Just from my own experiences and talking with other mongers, I know if female-male HIV transmission was prevalent, we'd be hearing more stories like Grunt's all over the internet.

I also have to disagree with Pagan about the comment that it is "moot" whether Grunt got HIV from this girl or not. The truth of the matter is, he's already repeatedly accused this girl of having this hideous disease, and here in the States, asserting that someone has an infectious, communicable disease (when she doesn't) is slander per se (no need to prove up damages). This is a serious charge and I'm in no way defending the working girl, but it's become terribly important now to verify, to a reasonable certainty, that Grant did or did not contract HIV from this girl.

beachman-

The cruel irony of this whole thing is the house may not be legally transferred back to the original owner. He may have walked away from the house, but the legal title is still in both their names.

If this is becoming a real estate thread, let me chime in that if Grunt isn't a Mexican citizen, he can't own property in Baja. He'd have to establish a property trust (a "fidelcomiso") and take posession of the property as a benificiary only. There's no other way around that, and Grunt made no mention of that. I have worked in the past with the agency he cites (Grupo Omarsa) and can vouch for their existance, but can also say that the agency and its owner is a fucked-up operation that pulls all kinds of shady deals in TJ. I actually knew the owner very well, and the guy is a cash strapped idiot. There are enough facts cited by Grunt about the property that I believe he was somehow involved in a property deal (and probably much to his detriment!), but the details don't hold up to strict scrutiny. I'm still concerned about the jist of the story--the HIV aspect-- and really don't care much about how hombres get financially taken by putas. There are alot of idiots out there that do stupid things, and I've done my share of gift giving and soul saving with these chicas.

Due diligence-

I seriously believe this whole story is a bunch of BS.

I find it near impossible that some one would put $40,000 down on a $70,000 in TJ for a steet girl before they were married.

What I do believe is that this street girl took advantage of him to some extent finacially and now he is on a mission to harrass her and destroy her reputation by claiming she gave him HIV so other mongers ignore her.

Isn't kind of funny Grunt waited until he posted here on ClubHombre to take, send in, recieve back the results of his HIV test even though it has been weeks since he broke up with her!

I wonder if he is posting his story on other web sites that mongers frequent!

How about we arrange a field trip for all you "real estate professionals" complete with your favorite putas and beer to my old house in Libertad. If im not bullshitting you guys pay for 5 years CH membership for me, if im full of shit i pay for your favoritas and beer. Of course people like "DUE Diligence" and those like him wont take me up on it because its in your face reality and would put an end to their infinite speculation about returning real estate to the owner in Mexico. Which by the way isnt the most important issue here!!! Maybe ill bring my fucking toothbrush too..Anybody got the balls to suck on it.. Maverick your right it was a fidecomisio, it wasnt finalized because i didnt pay for the house in full. When you pay for it in full and go to the notario to have it put FULLY in your name then you go to have the fidecomsio trust initiated.

Grunt-

Why did you wait till you started posting here on Club Hombre to get your HIV test or is that not "the most important issue here?"

AND, why do you care sooooo much what a bunch of mongers think about you and your (supposed) situation? Don't you have other things to concern yourself with? I mean, you've made your (supposed) point!

IF in fact you got infected by a TJ hooker, a) why do you even go back to TJ (for any reason)!, b) why do you hang on a TJ hooker message board?, & c) it seems your ire was really raised when either you found out about or Pagan found out about you and you two compared notes.