beachman, you make such valid points. I've always thought this situation is so unfair, because we dont get the other side of the story. However, it is refreshing to see so many people not give "carte blanche" to Grunt's story. He claims to have tested negative just before Citlali, was with no one but Citlali during their relationship, comes on CH with his woes with Citlali, sets up the drama with his AIDS test, and of course is positive. This is too much for me to buy. Especially, how he was tested before Citlali. That is too convenient.

Due diligence-

You would think he would have insisted she be tested for HIV before they were to be married.....especially he should have insisted before he had bareback sex with her....since he went to the troublr of being tested himself before dating her!

Beachman
Long time no see Any more Milk-tiger bars ?
I respect everyones opinion perhaps I am gullable.
Can't really go into it now, I met a girl at Bambis last night who said she loves me and I am gonna buy her a car now.
Again I happen to beleive Grunt has HIV but where and how he got it I do not know. I would rather have a scare and have someone come forward than be secretive and not tell anyone that was at risk.

Thanks to all who have voiced their opinions
Milktuffy

Hey Milky-

If I make it back out to TJ I will be sure to take care of you!

There is just to many holes in Grunt's story. I know you are trusting but don't let yourself to be used as a pawn for someone you never have met and has just e-mailed you an access code over the internet.

Who is the babe from Bambis.....I bet she will love me more if I buy her a house!

beachman, er...i mean due diligence...what holes??

I am amazed that Gruntie has not considered that his "HIV test" was erroneous. The first thing I would do is to get a Second Opinion if I got a positve HIV test.

exp, didnt you read my previous post about my second pos test result??

So is Citlali still working?

I saw her working sunday afternoon Nov 28th at her usual spot.

Grunt03,

What is the latest on your situation? Do you have the pictures of her that you promised earlier? I want to know her when I see her so I can cuss her out in Espanol.

Cuss her out?
And say what??

Since you're fluent, why don't you calmly get HER side of the story and post it instead of being so quick to jump with someone that has posted and ran??

RJ

I think grunt got tired of the childish back and forth. It seemed to me the guy was just trying to get some good word out and really wasnt shown much support. Come on, how would you react in his shoes!!

This is one chica i wouldnt touch anyway, way too dangerous. Just too many other chicas without the issues. I wonder if she has a valid, up-to-date Health Card? Alot of these providers hide when the Health Dept people show up then reappear to service us. If anyone gives her a go do us a favor and check for a valid H.C. with recent HIV status. You might save a fellow hombre. Holmes

I think Grunt just changed his handle!

Judging by the lack of apostrophes in the contractions, I would say that Holmes = Grunt.

Or maybe Holmes just 'wasnt' feeling like typing these out t0day.

Oh children please!!!

Geez. Holmes a member since 12-11-04 and Grunt03 last logged on 12-10-04. Very similar writing styles. Makes you wonder. Or maybe just another set of events that makes your bs meter go off the scale.

Hey if i was the gruntster i'd waste constant posts on this thread with people that don't seem to give a shit about their fellow hombres. If i was Grunt i'd go about informing the Zona a different way, straight to the Mexican clientes. I don't understand why he didn't just post her pics all over the zona and his concerns in spanish. Much more effective.

Mr.Holmes: given that some scientists assert that female-to-male HIV transmission is improbable via sexual intercourse, is it possible that the Gruntster was actually playing for the other team? Or an IV drug user?

Holmes....wasn't he the porn star....well we all know with him. And when the truth came out it was because he had sex with a woman.

Fuck i don't know the Grunt or how he got it but i do know that given the close location of the Zona smackheads just down the street that there is bound to be a certain amount of "leakage" to the girls. Just common sense. Just take care and hope that there are few and far between "equipment failures". My take on this is just say no to suspect chicas. Especially from the Najera junkie central. I like to try to keep the odds somewhat in my favor.

Beachman, One hung motherfucker wasn't he.

Mrholmes-

He was my "little" brother!

Beachman- He also got caught up in a triple murder with some druggies if i remember correctly.

If I recall correctly, and my powers of recall are admittedly fading fast, Holmes was said to have been involved in IV drug use and/or gay sex experimentation when he was stricken with HIV.

The murder rap which he beat was the subject of a mainstream film last year called "Wonderland".

Which was also (very) loosely protrayed in "Boogie Nights".

Not that I've seen any but there's no doubt in my mind that Holmes did some gay porn (especially towards the end of his career) and I know that I've read excerpts of biographies where he was mixed up with many couples where I'm sure he just wasn't "involved" with the wife.

I meant to say....... it wasn't because he had sex with a woman! He most likely got HIV fron gay sex or sharing a needle!

Went down to the Zona today and to my surprise saw the star of this thread vending her wares so i thought what the fuck i'll play interested customer and at the same time do a little "Sherlock action". Did the standard routine of prices for services - in my case of course inflated, i then countered her offer, she accepted and then i casually asked her if i could see her healthcard upstairs before the sess begins. This puta instantly lost any interest in my business. And talk about stonefaced cold. So my fellow chaps as they say "Caveat Emptor" or let the buyer beware.

For the permanent record. Posted by MasterBates in the Mexico chat section. The cliff notes for someone that doesn't want to sift through all the posts. A theory that makes a hell of a lot of sense.

>>>Now that you've brought up something which I considered to be a dead and buried topic, let's just consider a few facts surrounding "Grunt03's" postings and this subject shall we?
1) Prior to his personal public attacks on this SG Citlali, no one has ever even heard of this poster "Grunt03."

2) By his own admission, he fell in love with a Mexican street prostitute and asked for her hand in marriage.

3) While doing a history search of this "Grunt03," I found no other prior postings from him. No trip reports, no photos of chicas, no responses to any other subject matter-nothing.

4) No one has ever met him.

5) One poster even offered to meet him face-to-face at a location in San Diego, (refer to prior threads) where he was asked to bring his medical documents and show of his existing medical condition. He subsequently declined to meet anyone from this board, stating something to the effect of it not being worthwhile.

4) He spent more time on a public forum discussion site responding to skeptical responses and telling of his sob story about how he "supposedly" contracted HIV from this SG Citlali, than spending valuable time seeking psychological counseling and support groups to help deal with this disease.

5) Also by his own admission, he "supposedly" invested in real estate property somewhere in Tijuana, in a Third World foreign country, where anyone knows, that Mexico's shady business practises and elected government officials alone, are common sense reasons enough not want to buy anything like a house in Mexico.

6) When questioned by another poster about Mexican real laws and procedures, he didn't come up with a straight answer. He was evasive.

7) He also claimed he was posting about Citlali's HIV+ status to "warn other mongers" about her medical condition. Bullshit.

8) If he was so concerned about the health and safety of so many guys whom he has never met, why is it he never once posted one word of this on any other Internet sites which also discusses the subject of prostitution in Mexico?

Now let's take a moment to analyze the existing emotional state of a guy who fell for a hooker:

1) He realized he got scammed.

2) He lost a lot of money.

3) He's probably in deep financial dept as a result of this, as well as being an emotional wreck.

4) He wants revenge. He wants to damage her reputation and her business. What better way to do it than posting all about his (and her) private lives together on CH's main discussion thread?

5) The whole thing from beginning to end was a complete HOAX.

The defense rests.

Master Bates.<<<

All I have to say on the subject is that she is a provider whose health has come into question and will not back up a clean bill of health with a healthcard.

Who gives a shit if she's a scammer.

Who gives a shit if the Grunt got taken by the Puta and her padrote.

The issue here is this putas health and if she is possibily exposing any of us to anything other than a cold.

MrHolmes,

You hit it on the head. Exposure is the concern.

Mr. Holmes, why in hell are you so focused on this chica because she didn't show you her health card? Have you done other SGs? Did they show you their health card? If not, what is your problem?

MrHolmes-

You seem to be concerned about the putas who may be exposing us to anything!

How about all the self-confessed hombres who go bareback exposing the putas therefore possibly exposing us.

Why are the rules different for the putas than they are for the hombres?

Posting a thread titled, "Things That Make You Go Hmmm - HIV Chica Re-Invents Herself" is the apex of unethical behavior. Mr. Holmes has no way of proving this and I do not believe he even asked Citlali for the card. Mr. Holmes rivals the muckracking journalism of the early 1900's. He makes the Star or Globe look reputable.
I have no problem with people who post sincere warnings about the health status of other chicas. For an example of a responsible reporting, look at the Betty of Chiapas thread. Posters to her thread had valid concerns but gave REAL facts to back up their concerns. Compare and contrast that with the Grun03/Mr.Holmes shameful smear campaign. MasterBates assumption "there are no facts" is quite valid when referring to the Grunt03/Mr.Holmes assertions. Bravo to so many of you in CH land who saw through this smear campaign.

Beachman, Your so right there definitely is a double standard and it is not fair. Wouldn´t it be scary if the chicas got together and read some of our posts about barebacking and BBBJ´s etc. They would probably request our health history as well. But they need the cash so they don´t. We are in the drivers seat, we call most of the shots. Some of us mongers would be banned from the Zona.

Attention !!!

Please note that I (Senor Pauncho) made the FIRST POST on this girl on Oct 23rd, 2003.

On the date of my session somewhat before (I forget exactly) Citlali had a heath card and she showed it to me (Including seeing the picture and her name on the front).

At that time it was valid and current.

Si Senor Pauncho es la verdad pero pasa mucho tiempo.

Explorer, no I don´t have a problem in general with this particular provider. This situation has made it to other forums and has become a concern to others as well. I was in the area and was asked to perform a service to other mongers that have done Citlali but are FAR removed from the TJ area. I asked for the card she said no and that was it. A few weeks later I ran into her at night on the street in front of the Najera. Given the M.O. I was provided it was out of character, which of course drew more red flags and more concern from the other parties involved.

I'm not buying your phoney, "was asked to perform a service to other mongers". You are trying to destroy this Citlali's business and harass her. In the MexicoChat section, why did you post the thread, "Things That Make You Go Hmmm - HIV Chica Re-Invents Herself" when you have no proof of that? If you do have proof, offer it! Why do you always avoid my questions? That is what should make people go hummmm.

Sr. Pauncho, next time you see this chica, pls ask to see her health card again.

Well, Guess what guys.

I visited her today. We went to the room.

I told her all that has occured on CH about her.
I told her that I believed it was false, but that I was unwilling to screw her out of fear.

She acknowledged that she has heard about it and her business is suffering.

She knows me as we had gone to the room a time or two before all this mess began.

At that time in October I saw her health card and verifed the picture matched and the stamp overlaying the picture and the inside front page of the health card were in register. Ths would TEND to indicate that the picture had not been switched.

Also at that time, I noticed that her given name was ***. I noticed this because that was the name of my multiyear favorita of past years.

Just after that post, Grunt e mailed me and mentioned her full correct name.

Today I again asked to see her health card. She had to go get it. She returned and showed it to me.

I again verified the photo and the stamp, etc.
I noted the HIV date on the orange square stapled to the front of the health card. It was dated late november 2004. Yeh, I forgot to write it down.

I verified the most recent RESULTS date as 20 December 2004.

I verified her most recent lab tests were taken 14 January 2005.

I verified that she is scheduled to pick up her recent results on 21 January 2005.

I asked her to ask the lab if they would allow a witness to see her next tests. I am talking about actually drawing the blood, being present when they present the results, etc.

She seemed very interested in doing so and said she would ask.

What is the truth ? Who the hell knows ?

But if I have to take off work for her appointments I will do so.

At this point I am beginning to belive Citlali.

I will keep you posted.

If anyone has suggestions on how to make this procedure more "provable", I welcome your CONSTRUCTIVE input.

Admin: Real named removed

Senor P thanks for you investigative services.

i wonder if this guy knows Sleazy Ea$y ?

I always thought that grunt03/mrholmes(the same person) is a flat out liar. What you are proposing will prove it conclusively. When you see Citlali, tell her that a lot of people on this board didn't buy into the lies of grunt03/mrholmes. Tell her hi from Due_diligence.

Well I personally wouldnt tell a chika nothing about any internet site that talks about other girls. But no outings occured and he got the skinny on her card etc..

thanks again Sp

Good job Senor P

For anyone who doubts Senor P would go to all this trouble he has been posting at Club Hombre since its beginning and has posted about checking health cards of chicas long before Citlali began an issue!

Senor P....tells us more about your conversation....what did she have to say about Grunt buying her a house and all the other issues of this story?

Why tell a chica about CH?

I thought that was against monger rules.

Too many dudes are telling chicas about the boards.

It is now spreading like an epidemic and soon there will be no post or boards.

A well known chica just found out about one of the boards and she was livid. She especially could not believe the naked photos of her amigas.

I just let her rant and asked her the point of why she was telling me.

I tiold her that if she ripped off someone it was of no concern of mine.

I wanted to get the truth of the matter.

I wonder where she bought the card!!! It is not the hardest thing to do. I'm sure she and her padrote know of crooked doctors in TJ that would do ANYTHING for a buck. Her business was suffering after all. Pauncho, why didn't you ask her about the rip-off scenario with the house? That would have been a good credility issue.

The card isn't available through anyone that calls themselves a doctor in TJ.

SP saw the card (and it't not the first card he's ever seen by the way) and declared it correct and valid. That's good enough for me.

Interesting how you bring up credibility issues.

RJ

Holmes....I mean Grunt

Must be one of the same crooked doctors who helped you get a false positive HIV test so you con Milkman into calling a number and give him a code to add crediability for your revenge!