Phnom Penh is located about 1 hour from Bangkok by plane. I have flown from both Bangkok and Pattaya. I think round trip it runs about $150 - $165 on Bangkok Airways.

Phnom Penh reminds me of the wild wild west. Their infrastructure is terrible. I think this is one of the things that attracts me to this place. I enjoy observing people and interacting with them in there own culture. And their culture is so different from ours in the US.

I generally stay at the Diamond hotel. It is a mid-level hotel and runs about $35 a night. Guesthouse and hotel prices range from about $5 to a few hundred dollars. The mid-level hotels are more than adequate. There is also no problems in bringing guests back to your room at this level.

Now for the fun stuff.

There is every type of venue imaginable for girl action. They have everything from brothels (Tuol Kok and KILO 11) to massage and Karaoke (lay lay massage is one of my favorites and a couple of boats that are docked on the river) to disco's and nightclubs (Martini's and Sharkey's).

My general routine was to start at Kilo 11 by about 1:00. This place consists of 1-2 dozen store fronts with about 20 - 30 Viet girls in each one. Age ranges from about 18-20. Prices are about $5. You can also negotiate to take one back to your hotel and the price should not be any higher than $25 depending on the time of the day. You will generally meet a number of Expats in some of the outdoor beer store fronts.

I then would usually hit one of the massage places about 4:00. My favorite was a place called Lay Lay massage which is located on 63 street. It is on this street where most of the massage houses are located. Cost is usually at $5 for short time and $20 for long time.

I would then find a restaurant on the river somewhere. Phnom Penh has a large number of very good eateries.

Take a couple hour nap and then it was off to either Martini's (about a 10 minute car ride) or Sharkey's (located very close to the hotels). Both are either disco's or pool halls. Martini's also has an outdoor movie theater. There is usually a large selection at either place. Prices are generally about $20 to go back to your hotel.

There is also some street action by the Olympic stadium if you like Khmer girls as opposed to Viet girls. I have tried this place once with very good luck. Asking price again only $20 for the night.

All in all I feel very safe in Phnom Penh, much safer than in the parts of the Zona at night. The last time I was there in November, they had a couple hour coop attempt with bombs and AK47's being shot off. That was a little scary but my driver told me that was the first time that has happened in a couple of years.

In my mind it is a must see place

Thanks, Ezgab. Good report on the 'Generals' about PP.

Gotta ask, weren't you just $#@ting bricks when the shooting started?? I mean, last I checked, Cambodia was kinda like Cuba as far as Americans visiting. They love to see us and our $$$s, but if crap goes down, you're pretty much on your own.
PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong on this as this is really the only thing keeping me from doing this side trip while on my vacation later this year.

One other question. What's the Mosquito situation like?? Any health precautions you took especially for your little 'field trip'???


StrikeEagle

Yes it was very nerve racking when the shooting started. It happened about 1:00 AM. It started off with two very loud bombs followed by the AK47's.

Actually the people are very friendly. They do not appear to be very materialistic, and I can understand looking at what they have been through. I have been to Cambodia 4 times (only to Phnom Penh and Siem Reap, Anchor Wat). I am going to venture out more on my next trip in March. My first trip I had the same fears as you. I talked to a number of travel's and all recommended going. It wasn't until I talked to a drop dead gorgeous girl from England who told me she traveled alone and felt very safe in Cambodia that I decided to go. I was also traveling with somebody during that trip.

When I travel there alone now I always hire a driver for the day, that tends to add another level of security for me.

I would definitely not miss the opportunity to see Cambodia if you are that close.

Never have seen any Mosquitoes in Cambodia, and I have been there during 4 different times of the year. I ran into a number of mosquitoes in Koh Sumai, Thailand. I did go to my doctor before going and she gave me a number of different shots.

High marks for the Vietnamese in Cambodia, very skilled at their trade. Not a particularly nice to place to visit, but if you are in Thailand and you get tired of the same-same scene there, head over to Cambodia for a few days. You may feel safer with a buddy. The girls at 154 Street where just as good in my book at the girls out at Sway Pak. For the most part, I can not recommend the Khmer ladies, but the VN ladies are fantastic!
Quite frankly, because the $20 longtime price is the same as in Angles City of the Philippines there is probably not really a good reason to head there, unless you already in nearby Thailand.

Bingo,

I would have to concur. I don't think I would make a special trip to Phemn Phen had I not been in Thailand, although Angor Wat is spectacular. There is something I enjoy about the dirt roads, their methods of transportation ( I have seen a family of 5 all on one small moped) and the people who are very friendly. Not to mention the girls. If you are over there right now there is astreet located by olympic stadium where you can find many attractive Khemer gal. I actually hooked up with one who was very outgoing and gave an outrageous BBBJ.

Here is a good wesite for infomation about Cambodia. This individual actually lived in Phnem Phen for two months and the website describes his travels and tribulations.

http://L4667.tripod.com/Pnh/index.html

Hello. I lived in Phnom Penh for a year and have visited there several times before 1991 and numerous times since 1996. In my opinion it is the very best commrecial sex value on the planet -- at least among the 13 countries I have visited in Asia, Mexico and the caribbean.

For some free pictures of Khmer and Vietnamese working girls, see...

http://www.ErosAdventure.com - sex travel videos for experienced travelers

I enjoyed Phnom Penh back in April - damn was it HOT! $5 ST with MP chicas (if I'm not mistaken, 100% Vietnamese), $20 LT. For Khmer chicas you have to hit the bars/clubs, such as Martini's, which is owned by a Taiwanese guy. MPs are located on 63rd St. I enjoyed Navy Club and Thbong Pich. Hong Kong hotel is a nice place to stay, though next time I'd choose Chay Hour (hoor) instead. Not much to do really in and around PP, but there is the Killing Fields, and I enjoyed blasting a few rounds on the AK-47 and tossing a hand grenade - all for $35. Whoopy! Other than that, I agree with the above posts... not a great place to visit, but entertaining enough for a few days to a week, IF in the vicinity of Thailand. I prefer the PI.

The Hong Kong hotel was bombed on July 4th by a Chineese gang. They were trying to extort the hotel for 2ook. There were 3 people killed and 11 injured. Alll of the eople killed were at another hotel a minute away.

I likewise stayed at the Hong Kong hotel when I was there in March. I am leaving for Bangkok in 3 days I think I will wait till next trip to go back to Cambodia

WOW.
I stayed at the Hong Kong last year in July. I was talking to the guys at the front desk and they are all Chinese from the mainland. My friend I was traveling with speaks Chinese (cantonese) and he told me that these guys had all the signs of triad members. No wonder the place got blown up.

It was the Triad gang connection that did the hotel in. Triad was also connected to another hotel about a minute away from the Hong Kong that was bombed as well. I can't remember the name though. Kind of frightening

FYI- A few weeks ago while in Pattaya I spoke with several people who had problems with police (extorting money) in Phnom Penh and @ K11. These were guys who have been several times. They were very happy to get back to Thailand.

Scooter

Had no problems in Cambodia except for stupid mosquitos. Lots to post but need to get it organized.

Just a short note to say that some the early posts in this thread are quite out of date now.

Following the crackdown of November 23rd 2001, all karaokes were shut down (no loss). Due to the expansion of road 70, Tuol Kork is over (ditto). And Rue 154 was cleared of brothels in the spring of 1997 (that one STUNG).

My all time favorite is Cambodia. Cambodia is relatively safe now having gradually improved since the treat of Paris was signed in 1991. I was last there in April of 2001 to work for 6 weeks. My hotel bill in Phnom Penh (pp) of April 16th best summed it up room $10, Girl all night (selected from sixty at the from desk) $10, beer $4.

Action: Love village and streets:

In Cambobia and other places in Asia a love village (Svay Pak) is available for service.
Svay Pak in pp is 10 Km out of town to the north. Svoy Pak K11 is my favorite place to hang out and watch the action (inside filthy though) with the best girls at 12, 14 and 15. Closer in near Boeng Kak Lake and the French embassy is Tuol Koek pronounced "Two-oh kaah. Both are rows of shacks lining the street on both sides with girls showing their stuff. map http://www.asiatour.com/cambodia/e-03phno/ec-phn01.htm

Prices are $5.00 eat in and $20 take away all night. Never been rushed or hassled

Streets around the market starting about 8 or 9 pm you can drive into a mop scène. Lots of girls same price 15 to $20 all night.

Hotels:

I stayed at the Bakong Guest House near the river and lots of the action $15 with AC god large bed, shower. I walked down the river just past the bridge and stayed at the hotel there -- the one with the $10 girl and rooms. Can’t remember the name but near where the boats go to Anker wat just past the bridge. The fancy hotels are $150 a night and hassle.

Nightclubs: start around 9 or 10 PM

SHARKY'S is my favorite 126 street 130 -- 855 (0)23-211 825 -- this is the classic expat watering hole owned and run by an American. I hired one of Sharky’s English speaking beautiful bartenders and we flow to Ankor wat for 5 days wonderful I paid her $200.00

Sharky’s Web site http://www.sharkysofcambodia.com/sharkys_index.html

E-mail sharky@camnet.com.kh

MARTINI'S A dance club all moto's (motorbike taxi) will know. Groups of girls run by a mama-san both inside and out.


Nice website with pictures of PP -- http://home.t-online.de/home/b.heiser/phnompen.htm

I was also in PP in April. I didn't experience
too much of the freelancer scene (eg. Sharky's),
but stuck with my favorite scene - MPs. 63rd
Street is where I spent most of my time hanging
out with a cold drink outdoors or enjoying the
numerous eye candy inside the MPs.

There isn't much to do in the city, and I saw
most all of it in two days. Svay Pak was an
experience, though not as "luxurious" as I would
have liked - I've been spoiled in Thailand.

Definitely worth a return trip. Where else can
you get laid for the price of a Happy Meal? For
a sample of one of my beauts, check out the photo
section on this board.

It is time to make current the goings on in PP, as I will be heading there in two weeks. Any updates or recent trip comments?

I -

Lots has happened in PP (aka PNH) over the last few months. Don't have time for much but bullet points, here they come:

- Nov 23rd 2001: Hun Sen announces country-wide crack-down on nightclubs and karaokes, hints at massage parlors and brothels as well; everything shuts down, some who-cares permanently, like Heart of Darkness, recently become a fag / NGO hangout

- crackdown triggered (literally) by (1) HS' nephew being jailed for shooting, or shooting at, someone outside a karaoke place, (2) the murder of a night club owner outside Casa (at the Sharaton), and (3) HS' meeting in November with Thai leader Thaksin, who's instituted crackdowns in the former Land of Smiles; concerns about 'widespread' drug use (meaning his nephew got corrupted), which nightclubs and karaokes were focal points for (crappy drugs, too!)

- in practice: no western-style discos, all turned into restos now (including Martini's and Sharky's, Manhattan and Halliday) but girls still drift around as before, picking up to pre-crackdown levels

- all karaokes remain closed (who cares)

- Hun Sen announced in December 'Brothels are next'; any list would have K11 (Svay Pak) at the top of it - but so far no major changes except that it's become primarily a day scene for anxious barangs, best girls gone by 5 PM

- Tuol Kork / road 70 now dead due to expansion of roadway. No loss, unless you're into exotic tropical skin diseases and really bad teeth (but what were you expecting for R5000 = $1.40?)

- massage parlors downtown closed over the Nov 23rd weekend but are apparently operating in pre-crackdown fashion

- best news: except for the surrealism of Hun Sen saying that any karaokes in PP remaining open or operating in disguise will have their storefronts destroyed by tanks, no negative changes over the last 2 months. New road hazard: tanks on the way to demolish karaokes - don't be a statistic

- you can still have a great time, no change in prices or relative availability of girls, but the look (and moral tone around town) is different from the wild west atmosphere that used to pervade

- we all missed some great parades where women were protesting for the right to fuck for money. My kind of town.

K2climbed2:

In the first post in this thread you wrote:

"My hotel bill in Phnom Penh (pp) of April 16th best summed it up room $10, Girl all night (selected from sixty at the from desk) $10, beer $4."

You mentioned it was beyond the (Japanese /aka New) Bridge, I presume on the road to K11 (Svay Pak), you said 'near where the boats leave for Angkor Wat'.

For perfect clarity, you wouldn't remember the hotel name would you? Was it the one that's all lit up, across from a river resto? Quite interesting that they were maintaining a stable of no less than 60 girls...rather unusual. I wonder if they were from the nearby and now-defunct Tuol Kork district.

Thanks. I may need a hide-out on my next trip. Girl problems, you know.

Just back from Siem Reap. Talk about dead. The legendary Martini's closed at midnight on Saturday night. Alcohol was being served but the joint was 99% empty. Massage places still going strong late into the night. Some places actually asking $15. $5 to $10 will get decent quality in the many places around the old market area for full service.

This gal, see picture, was one of my best finds on 154th street, named Yen, who was Khmer/VN. Went in there during the daytime and did a breasty VN gal, not too bad for $5. Went back to try and do another taller and better looking VN who was busy the time before, but couldn't find her. Good looking ones often get taken out LT. So, as I was about to leave, Yen smiled at me as she sat with the other 8 or so girls near the doorway. Her smile was terrific and quite a nice figure to boot. She lead me upstairs to a tiny room, actually had to stoop or crawl into her ST room. She started with a great BBBJ, in fact, when I showed her my condom she gave me a frown. Well, this girl had talent. Her C cups certainly helped too. So, then onto rear entry and finally missionary, she was a delight! Went downstairs to wash off and I was still so horny, I did her once again, which must be rare because she looked at me in amazment. Again? $5 more? Yup! Same thing all over again. My buddy was downstairs waiting for me the whole time, by then slightly upset for waiting. I had to explain, this girl was too good to not do twice. I tried to take her LT, but the mamasan wouldn't let her go out. Probably one of her top girls, I suppose. Meahwhile, as I tried to pay the LT, one of the other girls who were giggling behind me behind a curtain were sometimes reaching out to touch me, then I finally took notice that they were trying to undo the inside zipper to my money belt, boy was she have deft hands, anyways, I turned around grabbed her hand and gave her a very stern look. I went back to six months later but Yen was gone, darn. By the way, of the four Khmer girls I tried, two were duds, one was acting like sex hurt her and the fourth was great, nearly as good as Yen, but not quite as pretty. Also, one week after I left, Sen took over the country, I think that was the Fall of 1998 or so.
Gals at Sway Pak (Km 11) were equally talented but a bit overly agressive, Toul Kork was rather depressing, 154th street suited me just fine!

I'm looking into heading to Km 11 next weekend. Aggressive women who really enjoy sex? Good luck finding her in America! Sounds like BKK has met it's match (if it turns out to be true). I will reserve judgement for the morning after.

OK, time to repeat myself once again... I cannot fucking WAIT for this trip.

What I meant by aggressive women is this; your taxi drives you to Svay Pak (Km 11) and there is a two story building at the entrance to SP, it often tries to ask for a bit more but it's a bit nicer, the other 30 or so stalls are on two streets near it, all are Vietnamese. If you take a walk by them, the girls are going to come out and say, "Me No. 1" and they will hold up their hand with five fingers, which means, $5. They all do this and soon you are surrounded with girls pulling your arms in opposite directions but also being shoved/lead towards their place. You may not even like any of the girls at this place and for me, that's being overly aggressive. Another way to do this is just to have your taxi driver drive slowly down the line until you spot one you like. The taxi driver never drives slowly enough though, so you should make note of the number posted above her place or stall so you can refind the girl you liked. By stall, I mean, a open fronted room, like an Asian business. Inside are some chairs and after that some curtained areas with couches. You take your intended gal to the curtained room and order a coke for yourself, usually they bring out some peanuts on a plate with your coke, even if you didn't order it. They have beers too. If you don't decline it, you pay $1 for the coke, $1 for the snack. It's not necessary to buy the girl a drink. Probably there will be two or three other girls that have followed you into this room, all are trying to massage you and play with you hoping you'll take them back to the somewhat tiny ST rooms. If you do like one, say, "Let's go or Boom-boom you", they'll understand that, but believe me, they don't know any other English words. Maybe before you go back, you pay the $2 for the drink and another $5 for the ST with her, sometimes you pay afterwards. They may try to tack on another $1 for a condom. Rooms only have fans and are either very plain or somewhat nice, it's likely her living quarters. To shower or wash afterwards, you walk from the room in a towel to their barrel filled with water; I'd strongly recommend you taking your money pouch with you. Water just drops to the ground and past the wooden floors, soap may or may not be available. SP should be checked out but it is a somewhat long drive from PP, so I learned to just head over to 154th street in PP instead, almost the same thing and a lot less time driving 25 minutes each way. In either place, a LT can be requested with the girl of your choice, but better to try her out ST first. Pay $20 LT, maybe $25, but insist on $20, they should go for it. Taxi will be about $20 to $25/day, available to you 24 hrs. It's really important to select a taxi driver that does speak English at the airport, that's the only place you are going to find them. When you come out of the airport, you'll be mobbed by drivers. Don't just select the one that says, "I speak English." Start asking him some questions to see if he really does, I had to learn this the hard way. Agree on a daily price once you are certain he understands 90% of your English. The other method is to hail down motorcycle taxis, much cheaper but I don't want the added risk of injury. Those can be found in PP, unlike taxis. And last point, you'll be constantly hounded by amputees whenever you exit your hotel or get out of your taxi, they look really pathetic and it's really hard to resist giving them a buck, but the problem is that about ten of them will all want $1. This happens everytime you get in/out of a taxi! Either take lots of low denomiation USD or you can just take Thai Baht. Lastly, many of the hotels don't have safes, so if you are carrying your trips supply of money on you, you are a target for robbers. In that regard, you are more vulnerable being on a motorcyle taxi, coz sometimes their friends will ride up along side of you and point a gun at you.... I've heard of this happening. Oh, I just wanted to say that when the jet was about to land in PP, there were absolutely no buildings at all around, it seemed strange. This is a really poor country....

Hey, be sure to head over to the National Dancing school, somewhat near Toul Kork. There are about 100 little girls and teens there learning Classical Cambodian dance, take pictures descretely. It's an amazing sight to see them dance. Good photo opportunity.

If you decide to take a trip over to Angkor Wat, highly recommend, be sure your taxi driver is there to meet you on time at your hotel, it will be early in the morning.... There are only two flights and they book up fast. I recall you can buy the ticket there, not through a travel agent. Again, you will have to hire a taxi driver, pay another fee to enter Angkor Wat. There is suppose to be some ST places in this area, but I never saw them. Likewise, be sure to be back at the aiport ahead of time to catch your flight back to PP. Taking the river boat from PP to Angkor Wat, although maybe more scenic is, from what I hear, not recommend.

Thanks for all the great notes... I will be purely a sex tourist this time, as my time is limited to two or three days in PP and Km11. Looking forward!

I don't understand why there are recent posts in this thread that talk about 154th St. That scene was closed in 1997. And Tuol Kork is effectively finished. Where is this ancient, misleading news coming from?


Here's an update to my post of Feb 5th 2002 in this thread...comes from a guy living there full time.

*******

March 22 2002:

- K11 same as always except a new foreigner-owned bar has opened up in a former brothel, House 13, and another one will open up w/ a Swiss owner, who is also an NGO spy w/ hidden cameras on his roof, at former House 16 brothel. This is a bad trend because we think K11 could become all bars like in Pattaya and all the brothels will eventually close.

- Sharkey's back to normal.

- Manhattan Club, Orchidee Disco closed. Simone's no longer a disco; now a small resto.

- Martini's: There is normal disco dancing every night except they keep a few tables and chairs on the dance floor to make it look like a restaurant. Otherwise, same as before except that the tables reduce the size of dance floor. They took out the benches that were outside the disco. And they put a real wall behind the bar. Not much else.

- Casa is transformed. Now some kind of restaurant but may have some late night dancing.

- Hallliday has some kind of expensive lounge w/ expensive VN girl hostesses and some reports of late night dancing there.

- Karaokes: most are still closed down but have heard reports, one of which came from a VN girl working one of them last month, that there are karaokes open again but I think they are only VN places.

- Happy Palace was never a disco but a large plush karaoke. Still closed as far as I know.

- Many karaokes have been transformed into restaurants and/or beer gardens. (All karaokes were ordered closed November 23rd 2001).

******

Update to the update, April 13th:

A couple weeks ago the authorities descended upon the 63rd St Massage Parlors, shut just about everything down. All have reopened since, lots of confusion there for a couple days. Nobody knows what's going on...seems there's heat somewhere in the city every couple of weeks these days.

Right, I was in PP when Toul Kork and 154th Street were still active, so if they have closed, sorry for the misinformation.

Bingo ...

OK. The trouble with Phnom Penh is that it swings wildly, and on an inscrutable, irregular basis. It's stable for months, then some area will get turned upside down with raids, closures, arrests of mamasans, seizure and possible deportation of girls, then two weeks or two days later the area is operating normally again. I know of 2 mamasans who didn't make it back out of jail despite the formaidable amount of money they must have had at their disposal to buy their way out, so these would probably be showcase arrests to impress NGO's or foreign countries making donations, or some official showing he/she "really means business" this time.

But street 154 was closed at the time of the first Women's Day Festival in Phnom Penh, just too glaring for downtown I suppose, especially being on the block next to the police HQ; who knows, maybe the Women's Parade as part of the festivities passed right by it. Tuol Kork literally got ploughed under by the widening of road 70.

The crackdown of November 23rd 2001 looked like it was going to be really serious, meaning permanent damage to some places, and that's true in some respects, the karaokes especially (not that they were worth saving). But it looks like most scenes/venues have done a little revamping to adhere to and/or work around the new rules, and things are slowling inching back to the way they were.

The most dire outstanding threat is Hun Sen's remark that the brothels are next. We're watching K11 very carefully. Strange that he's never targeted the massage parlors downtown in his fiery speeches...the MP's are effectively brothels as well (ignoring for a moment the recent descent upon 63rd St., which made for some turmoil but no net difference, as of now, in operations).

But that's what's interesting about Phnom Penh: you never really know what the fuck is going on there unless you're an expert in chaos theory.

Tell me about chaos, one week after I left there was Hun Sen's coup to take over the country. I heard reports people had to stay indoors for about a week, many getting quite hungry. The buddy that went with me to PP two times later returned and actually commented that he saw improvement in the city, are you finding that to be the case? As a side note, it's simply amazing the way the thick traffic at intersections doens't cause more accidents. PP used to be considered a jewel of the Orient back in the early 60's, I've seen film of it on TV, boy it sure changed for the worse, and of course, the upheaval by Pol Pot was the main cause for it looking like it does today. I think Hun Sen would like prostitution to be more modeled after Vietnam given he is a Vietnamese. In PP when I was there, before Hun Sen, the 154th St. scene was pretty blairing, girls running out to your taxi and surrounding it, somewhat like Km 11, but at least due to the fact Svay Pak is outside of the downtown area, it's more tolerated, although that place has been burned down before (a few years prior to my arrival). Toul Kork wasn't a nice area, wouldn't you agree? Yeah, massage parlors are effectively brothels, but they sure lack the flashiness of the Thai model.

Coup: The coup of 1997 actually lasted only one weekend, at least as far as AK 47's and RPG's going off is concerned. Who knows how long the looting lasted, or how long people holed up out of (misplaced) fear. They stripped the airport electronics down to zero and I imagine the area where the fighting took place was pretty 'interesting' for a while there. Lawlessness is only millimeters away in PNH, as you know. Ask any policeman, especially one who becomes a moto gangster when his shift is over, laying that ugly pistol on the gas tank in your direction to say, 'Pull over, we need to talk about the contents of your wallet.'

As for 'improvement', that's a pretty subjective call. Immediately after the coup the only westerners left in the country were missionaries and a couple die-hard barangs. Prices for girls plummeted, and it was clearly a buyer's market. But basically PNH is a roller coaster...it just swings all over the place. Just when you think some place is gonna be squashed out of existence, or die and roll over, it springs up again in full force in no time. Or girls get cleared out of someplace, TK say, and show up somewhere else, like some highrise turned bordello downtown, with a discreet storefront. Hard enough to track, impossible to predict. So I'm not sure about 'improvement', but it's suited exactly to my taste. Still wild, wild west (but ever so gradually getting tamer).

Traffic has become fucked on the main boulevards. When I first started going in 1994, you hardly ever saw a car...now they're everywhere, and Monivong and Norodom are absolutely plugged at rush hour. You can spend ten minutes trying to cross perpendicularly, even on a moto. I saw the first traffic lights go up, bad news, meant the place was becoming way 20th century.

Pol Pot and PNH: I presume you know that the KR emptied the city and destroyed the water infrastructure so that no-one would move back in (drains plugged with cement etc.). So of course the city went to hell. It's becoming gentrified in places now, I hardly recognize the park area around Rue 110 any more. Trees planted, signs that somebody actually cares (and didn't skim off *all* the project money).

Hun Sen and prostitution: My earlier posts talk about Hun Sen's motives for the November 23rd crackdown. I don't think he wants a truly VN- style girl scene, because in VN everything is distinctly illegal (the gov't has an "Anti=Social Evils Department", which is quite busy). That's why the VN girls come to Cambo to ply their trade. They'd be in jail in VN, or living under the threat of it. Or maybe you're right, but HS is aware that he can't just put a stop to it without massive social upheaval. I mean, there are only so many mosquito nets that need to be sewn up. Following the crackdown in November, there were demonstrations by women protesting the loss of sex work. Rumour has it that K11 is run by the military, so uprooting prostitution would be quite a difficult job. Big, big bucks involved, that would be one ugly transition.

K11 burning down: that was August 1995, I was so depressed I could hardly function. Then (of course) it bounced right back. It used to be wooden shacks and chickens, much like Tuol Kork. Now it's cement block everywhere, and ripping. Who the fuck knows.

Tuol Kork: Although my first girl in PNH was from TK, I never liked the place. Had a couple good times, a lot more bad times, and lots and lots of departures with nobody on the back of the bike with me. A great area for doctors studying exotic tropical skin diseases. You had to dig and dig for quality talent, and even then you wouldn't see her ringworm until you back to your hotel. So I'm with you, no tears over the end of TK. May it rest in peace, under a few inches of asphalt that will probably break up and erode away within 2 rainy seasons.

Massage parlors as brothels: Yeah, if you want flash, better stick to Thailand. It's gonna be a long time before PNH feels like BKK, if ever. There's 30 years of catching up to do, and no money to do it with.

Excellent analysis. Are you also known as Pan? You sound like it. It's like the Asian version of the wild west there, sans the horses. About the traffic, I watched in amazment natives just walking slowly right across the flow of traffic, it scared me to watch but sure enough, all the traffic made way for them! I'd piss my pants if I tried that. Yeah, no regrets about TK, that place was a dump! You know, when you go to Angkor Wat, you realize this same stock of people once had their act together. It would sort of be like seeing Egypt, Greece or Rome in the same state as Cambodia is now. Do you still generally find that the Khmer prostitutes don't put out? 3 of the 4 I tried were as bad as some TJ hookers, if not worse! The one good one I had was as good as any VN hooker. In VN, the top officials do frequent whore houses, it's been in the news before, so maybe it's another case of dual laws, one for the rich, one for the poor. As far as the hookers strike, yeah, I understand that, same thing happened when Jakarta was going to close down a brothel section. What other trade do these girls know? Unemployment figures, if even tracked, must be about 60% or even more. I agree, it's going to be a very long time before Cambodia recovers. They still have more land mines in that country than people; that's really depressing. Well, thanks for the decription of some of the improvements, sounds like some good is happening there. Have you been to the national dance school yet in PP? It's nice to see they still care about their culture. Some of those kids are simply adorable. Also it was interesting to notice that some of the Khmer had somewhat fine curlish hair, is that from the orginal Negrito tribes from way back? That's my guess. For instance, the Philippines still has a rather small Negrito tribe, so does Vietnam. Because VN was run by the Chinese for 1000 years, their hair is generally very straight. Except for the airline stewardess on Air Cambodia (or some such name), I really didn't see that many beautiful Khmers, how about you? Last side note: When our jet landed in PP, I remarked to my friend, "Geez, we are really landing at a fast speed! Sure enough, a few months later, a jet ran off the runway.... One more thing, when you depart PP and head back to Thailand, it sure seems like you are going to a first world country. What's the highest building in PP now? Three or four stories? Bkk has many sky-scrappers.

Warning! Please, nobody let your guard down about drinking Cambodian water, you'll get Giardiasis, a water parasite causing severe stomach cramping and very infrequent and explosive diarrhoea. It's killed by Flagyl or Tinidazole, anti-biotics are of no use. How did I get it? Well, eventhough I always drank bottled water, when I was at Angkor Wat, I ordered a glass of iced-coffee, dump mistake. Symptoms started a few days later back in Thailand and continued on even when I was back in the USA. The curious thing about this parasite is this, you think you are well after several "I must go Right NOW! diarrhoea episodes. You practically don't have time to run to the toliet and get your pants down before all hell breaks loose.... Afterwards you'll feel perfectly fine, your stomach feels normal and then about three or four days later the parasite colony will have recovered only to repeat the same damn routine all over again! I was baffled by this for several weeks before finally seeking treatment. It took me several months to really feel healthy again, this after the Flagyl had killed them all. This parasite will leave you feeling depleted energy wise. Don't drink Cambodian water in any form unless it's been boiled, I think 5 minutes is the minimum time.

Bingo:

Sound like Pan do I? Ha! It's because I proofed and sometimes corrected his writing. He lived with me for a while as I took over the publishing aspects of Asia File for a year or so (1995...I put out AF #4, started AF #5 but left SD for contract work before it was finalized); he continued on as editor. I wrote a lot of articles on BKK and Cambo and Asia travel in general, under the Koro handle (Im also Koro on ASFO). The close collaboration lasted a couple of years, just prior to his selling the rag (which I tried to turn into a mag). We had an agreement to disagree about the use of pix in AF, so I backed out of direct involvement. The FBI loves visuals. ("Got two photo ID's for this young looking girl, one issued by a government agency? And let's have a look at what else is on that roll of film." Not at my door, thanks, visit courtesy of *my* tax money.) AF was sold, and exists in deeply wounded fashion as TET ("The Erotic Traveller", easily found on the net, totally out of our hands now.) Pan's still in Asia, we still see each other once in a while, but he doesn't write much any more. Pan was the guy who introduced me to PNH, I probably never would have gone without his advance scouting work and unbelievable reports (all of which were in fact true!) I don't hang around BKK much these days, just a layover for me, so to speak.

Angkor Wat: what you say is basically true, the people are fantastic and at one time sported a truly advanced civilization...that reservoir at Angkor Wat was five miles long and a mile wide! In the same era on the other side of the world, the Europeans were drinking "black water" from puddles in the streets. But you also have to remember that Angkor Wat wasn't designed by Khmers proper (I've no idea what subset/tribe of people were inhabiting the area at the time of construction)...AW was originally a Hindu or other Indian complex, and finally abandoned...hence it fell into K hands and went to, well, Pot. Apparently the Khmer Rouge holed up there and used any wooden art they could find as firewood, besides defacing and destroying or selling anything they felt inclined to. Other more natural forces of course did their usual thing as well to damage the place. Great that it's now designated a World Treasure or some such.

Did you know they mine the complex every night to stop thieves with their stone=cutting tools from coming in and removing artifacts for New York penthouses? They deactivate the mines before daylight. Hope they're thorough...

K's as bed partners: For every 25 VN's, I'll take up with one K, and typically be very disappointed. They need to open an academy in PNH to teach K's how to provide decent service. I've got a curriculum drawn up and I'll work for survival money as Principal of the Academy, but I'm not getting any response to my application to do business from the Department of Education. It's bad up=country as well, Kampong Cham, Kampong Speu and Sihanoukville among places I've visited. The K girls under a certain age can be the sweetest looking things, but nobody teaches them about sex. So many K's will just lie there until they feel it's time start the 'Cheu, cheu' thing (['Hurts']. Sure, girl, hurts me too, more than you know, and unlike you, I'm not lying.

Without trying to sound racist, there's one other thing: I find the body mass of K's a bit heavy for my taste...bluntly spoken, many times I'm surprised at how dense their flesh is. Some of them are really built to survive! By contrast, it's easy to find VN's who are far more sylph=like, they retain an adolescent look and feel much longer than the K's. And some of them are really good in bed. (Warning: by no means all.) Having said that, I want to add that what I consider the two most beautiful girls I've ever come into close contact with have been pure Khmer. One I had the extreme good luck to bed in PNH (she was from Darasthmei on 63rd, a year ago), and one was a cashier at Fry's in Costa Mesa, CA (just a quick chat, of course). I mean. my breathing mechanism just came to a dead halt. The K I bedded gave the usual crap performance, however, and strangely was the hairiest Asian I've had the misfortune to run into.

Slight correction: there's *nothing* worse than a TJ hooker. I live 20 minutes away and have to be physically dragged down there. The place was OK up to the mid/late 90's, but I walk out celibate almost every time I visit now. If I do indulge, it's only after a full 100 mg of Viagra, and I usually get by with 25 anywhere else. There have been times that the 100 mgs had no effect either. Some exceptions are undoubtedly around, but I haven't run into any lately. The tone of TJ is worsening, hard to put my finger on, times are tough and so is the scene these days. Starting to get quite expensive too...I keep hearing about guys unloading over $100...for two decades, it was $50 for the best club girls everywhere.

The traditional Dance School at Tuol Kork: No, I haven't been, I'm afraid I'd have a heart attack, or multiple ones simultaneously. In any case I doubt I'd survive. I've heard it's quite a beautiful and delicious sight. Besides, I don't get up til noon, so I miss that 10 AM show.

Curly hair, etc.: It's so hard to tell these days given the appearance=altering products available in even the smallest traditional markets in the city. Never heard of any distinctly Negrito stock, but I've noticed quite a few Kampuchea Krom girls with somewhat curly hair (K's who lived in or near the south end of VN, which has changed hands many times over the centuries). Not 100% sure about your straight=hair=from=the=Chinese theory...might be true from way, way back and genetically=based, but the Thais can't claim Chinese=style hair from relatively recent history. It's definitely in the 'hood, though! I don't know enough about the last couple of millenia of SEA history to make any meaningful assessment. I know about the Negritos in PI, hadn't heard about those in VN. Pretty interesting.

Beautiful K girls: I mentioned beauty above. I've seen plenty of stunners on bikes coming back from school or work, but Cambo is really a pretty conservative place, and once a girl hits her teens she's often sequestered away so PEOPLE LIKE US don't get a chance to corrupt them. They'll hang around their living rooms until they're married. Loss of virginity is heavy stigma. Unfortunately, while they're waiting for The Big Day, they're gaining weight, still a sign of status (check out the mamasans...they get fat for respect). And of course the really beautiful girls who might otherwise be available are snapped up by the upper echelon guys who are filthy, filthy rich. (The filth derives from the fact that much of their wealth probably has crime of some sort or another behind it...and they're not helping their countrymen out much, it appears!)

Returning to BKK: I like arriving in BKK from the US because it's wild compared to where I've just come from. But when I come in from PNH on my way back to 'civilization' I find it really hard to bear. I sometimes come in to BKK on the six:30 PM flight, race into town for an oil massage or a trip to Annie's, then race back to Don Muang to get on the 1:10 AM KAL flight. Those 7/11's, KFC's, Macdo's, Wendy's, Burger Kings etc. really irk me, and the girl prices are criminal in comparison to PNH. Besides, after speaking Khmer and VN for a month, I can hardly form a Thai sentence, which is not normally a problem.

High buildings: What I dislike about BKK is that when I'm in a certain mood it starts to feel like LA to me...Siam Square, WTC, etc. And the obvious wealth is staggering, makes me feel like a worm walking down the street. Seen the Christmas decorations up in that area? Jesus. I like PNH *because* hardly anything's over five or six floors, and the streets are broad and typically still walkable. It's no Paris, but like in Paris I feel like I still have some stature as a human being. And of course the girl scene in PNH is so good that anywhere looks and feels bad in comparison.

(You asked what might be the highest building now...probably the Intercontinental, near Martini's. Fact I heard from taxi driver: sometimes the drivers will have a fare to the Intercontinental and promise the customer a bitchin local girl for a mere US$100. They then drop off the customer, turn the corner into Martini's, hire a girl at $15 or whatever, and deliver her to the Intercontinental. They probably don't report the profit on their tax forms, either.)

I like the typo at the end of your post: sky=scrappers. Call for the wrecking ball!

Giardia: This is why the standard warning says to see a doctor if 'gastric distress' lasts more than a couple days. On the very rare occasion I get hit, I take 500 mg of Cipro (buy it in Thailand OTC), then Immodium as per instructions on the package. Typically over within 24 hours, often less. But Cipro's only good against bacteria, there are viral parasites as well, and Giardia needs its own treatment, as you pointed out. At a recent visit to a Travel Clinic in San Diego I was told to take the Cipro only after Immodium has no effect (to avoid building up a resistance to Cipro)...this is advice I'm going to ignore though, since it happens only once every couple years, and time is too precious to waste. If it *is* bacteria I want to kill it forthwith. They also told me that if you drink any carbonated drink you're safe, because those nasty microbes can't survive in the high=pressure, carbonic acid environment.

That said, there's the Naga complex up near the river that has California Blue Shield endorsement and coverage should you need help. Avoid Dr Scott Gavin, who advertises in the Phnom Penh Post, he's a shark. He'll charge you $30 a house call, look at you, suggest a medication, then insist on going to get it himself, which means...yes, another $30 house call. Any K runner would do it for 2000 Riel.

On my next trip I'm going to try to bring back a sample of the bottled water I buy and have it tested, if it doesn't cost a fortune. I'll report if I learn anything.

Wow, an unexpectedly long and detailed report. I met Pan twice and we emailed each other two months ago after a two or three year pause. Interesting guy. Well, let me guess, the Pattaya scene is just too commercialized for you, right? Ten years ago it was quite a bit less commercialized, now with walking road, you feel like you are entering some version of Disneyland. That's not to say that when the road was open before, it was that much different but somehow it has changed and it's hard to say what that "it" is. Similarily, I suspect the really terrific VN girls stay indoors too, in VN. I haven't been there but I they also put a very high value on virgins there and yet maybe they do come out during the day on those bicycles. I think my next trip is to Indonesia or VN.

You e=mailed Pan, hmmm, maybe I can do some sleuthing and find out who you might be. Unless you say you'd rather I not.

Pan (I think that's two or three handles old by now) has lots of contacts and is very knowledgeable, but he gets into a lot of trouble of his own making due to bad judgement. He's not very welcome in PNH anymore, lots of enemies and what I call 'craters' left in his trail. Nice enough guy, though, we get along great outside of that unfortunate situation. I tend to see him in semi=secret fashion due to his problematic status with expats in PNH.

Pattaya's in my 'don't bother' book now just because the girls are so, dare I say it, unappealing. It's as if when they've become obsolete in BKK, they move down to Pattaya. The bar beers are full of girls who've had their day. Sad but true. The standing rule at bar beers is to have one looker, and then whoever else wants to hang around. I've left twice in disgust in four visits, after getting myself laid each time on principal just because I'm in 'the most pornographic place on earth'. Maybe once upon a time it was. The two times I didn't leave early I had to go monogamous to maintain quality. Crackdowns and new laws ended the 'pornographic' era between 1995 and 1997. Now it's girls in their thirties, they know what they're doing and have great personalities, but I'm going for aesthetics too...

Like everywhere else in Thailand, you're simply not allowed to talk about Pattaya ten years ago. The Golden Era is over, and getting more over all the time. Pattaya has not aged well. I can go days without seeing a girl I find attractive in Pattaya. The odd exception is invariably on the arm of somebody who's not about to let her go.

You're right, VN is very conservative. Same with 'normal' society in Cambo and Thailand, actually, although Thailand is easing up a bit. But you still won't find many Thai girls in actual bathing suits at the beach.

Common wisdom says 'If you want VN girls, go to Cambodia.' VN is expensive, the scene is illegal (and enforced), hence good talent is rare, hard to find and a hassle to make arrangements with (renting two rooms in a hotel, paying off the staff, undercover cops, etc.). Might open up someday, might not. Meanwhile, $5 for a short throw in PNH, or $20 overnight with eager teens from K11 can't be beat.

If you go to VN or Indonesia, I'd be interested in your perceptions...and good luck! Post something if you go!

Pulled this out of one of my posts on Tijuana > Bars/Zona Norte > La Tropa > La Tropa Discussion. Thought it pertinent enough to be dropped into this thread for anybody who cares:

Thailand:

$640 round trip with taxes, San Diego to BKK (KAL / Travel Network, San Diego, low season)

$20 per night, 3-star hotel right on top of the action
$1-$2 taxis most places, high-speed Sky Train $0.50 to $1.00 (both unnecessary if you're located properly)
$2-$4 for a major meal, any style (local = ~$1 to $2)
$2 drinks in bar (beer, soda, juice; hard liquor more)
$3-$3.50 per lady's drink
$12 bar fine
$15-$23 'tip' for short-time
$34-$45 'tip' for overnight
$2 for girl to take taxi home or back to club, and to give you merit
(GFE: free)

So call it max $100 a day - I don't stick around BKK long. Have to search a bit for TinyGirls these days (less than 40 kg's), but they're still there (their bigger sisters are chowing down at KFC, MAcdo's, Burger King, Wendy's etc.) Add 1 hour to the night's search to find a winner.

******

Phnom Penh: $160 return from BKK (1 hour flight on Bangkok Air)

$10-$20 hotel, better quality than BKK for the same money
$0.25 - $0.50 motorbike fare anywhere downtown (taxis are usually rented by the day)
$1-$2 for a major local meal ($2-$5 for Indian or western fare)
$2 return fare to Svay Pak (K11, the world's premiere brothel village)
$3-$5 short time at K11 ($5-$10 downtown)
$20 for overnight anywhere (50 cents/kilo! Double-header discounts available)
$1 max for the girl(s) to return to the mama-san's place in the morning; optional $2 tip for good service
(GFE not guaranteed...YMMV)
(no bar fine, no obligatory drinks)

So call it $50 a day in Phnom Penh, $1500 for 30 days. I think I pay that much for gas each month in the US just to get to work and back home again.

Ok, so here is a typical Angeles City trip
Daily expenses:

Airfare via courier: $450
Discounted Airfare: $650
r/t to AC via taxi: $60
Hotel: $25 (quite nice)
LT Girl: $20
Food: $8
Beer: $2
LD: $3
Transportation:
$2 via trikes or $.40 jeepney
30 days = $2200 (courier)

All in all, a safer area to hang out in and plenty of girls to choose from, mostly 90% GFE.

Main advantages: GFE & English speaking girls (for the most part). Women ages range from: 18 to 22 yrs. mostly, also "cherry" girls. Plenty of internet cafes. Quite good bars generally. Excellent Thai food at Margaritaville Station. No problems bringing ladies to the hotel.


Main disadvantages: TC's and ATM use are problematical, same goes for PP, though. Less to do in the cultural exploration dept. than Thailand or Cambodia. No Traditional Thai massage or body massage. No beach but quite good swimming pools. Cellular phones are used to constantly send text messages between the girls, which is annoying. Girls can latch on very quickly. Air pollution ok in bar area of AC but main Hi-way isn't ok. Sound pollution annoying at times.

Conclusion: That's a pretty darn good bang-4-the-buck price.

Less than 24 hours after entering this pit called Phomn Phen I have gone to Bangkok Air ticket office and got my ticket changed so that I can leave tomorrow ... not my kind of town.