A thorough discussion of race was started in a separate topic titled Non-Pro Pickups. HombreJr and I are going to do some copying and moving to separate these into their respective threads while trying to maintain the integrity of the original thread.

Hombre: I think it all started with this message, or at least an interpretation of this message.

Originally posted by Jarule on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 04:34 pm

It's nice to see interest in this thread. Non-pro garotas are super legal and I completely adore them.

Here are my experiences after having hit practically EVERY worthwhile non-pro dancetaria, barzinho, and cafe in SP and Rio over the last 6 months.

Brazilians girls make it very simple for you. If they like you, they'll give you THE STARE. Now don't mistake the "who's that gringo freak?" look, with the "that guy is cute, let me try to get his attention" look. believe me, i'd gotten both. if you have any experience picking up girls in life, you'll know the difference.

if the girl is quite taken with you, you'll get the stare for an extended period of time. don't ignore them!! and don't ogle them!! just make sure they know that you noticed. and make sure you occassionally glance over at them as well.

of course, you'll want to make the move pretty quickly after this initial paquerando period. after that, it's up to you how well you can bater um bom papo. oh, and any decent chemistry + dancing will be enough of an invitation to make out with your partner. french kissing a girl you just met is incredibly more common and casual than in the u.s.

now YMMV depending upon 3 very important factors: age, race/looks, portuguese skills

starting with age: if you're over 40 (and look it), bad news. i rarely saw guys this old scoring with the younger gals. it's absolutely possible, but not in the barzinho scene. if you're under 35 and look it, it's all good. brazilian girls like their men a little bit more mature anyhow.

race/looks: touchy subject but i'll cover it since i've had friends of all types here in brazil go wingman with me.

if you're black, you'll have an uphill battle. total negros in brasil usually end up as the bouncers at these clubs, and you'll find the rare negro custmomer inside. the girls will consequently associate you with the 'lower class negros' of brazilian society, making it that much more difficult for you to score. the upside is that lighter shade blacks will be more accepted (you may not even be considered a negro), and brazilians girls in general are pretty tolerant (compared to white american girls at least).

if you're asian, you'll have a slightly less uphill battle. asian stereotypes exist in brasil, and it's common for asian brazilians to get made fun of on televion and in real life. koreans and chinese in SP are ghettoized and barely speak portuguese. as such, they are associated as lower class immigrants, such status may be conferred onto you. japanese are more assimilated, but still ghettozied somewhat in liberdade. having said that, most of the younger asians in brazil date non-asian brazilians, and interracial dating and marriage is almost the rule and not the exception. if you're taller and reasonably good looking, you should do fine.

if you're white, good news! as long as you're younger, in reasonably decent shape, and not ugly, you may very well fall along the spectrum of what brazilians consider "good looking." just check any of the novelas on o globo or record...if you look like the guys on it, you'll be a hit. having said that, rio tastes differ from SP tastes. rio girls like their guys TANNED. if you're white and pasty, it's considered unsexy and dorky. SP is different. white and pasty is much more common among the guys here, so you'll fit in more.

Portuguese skills: quite possibly the most important of all factors. with the non-pros, you MUST BE ADVANCED. sure, the patricinhas speak english, but they don't like to. and prefer portuguese to flirt in anyhow. meia pataca "estou com fome...tudo bem...cuanto e...falo um pouco...sou americano...etc" crap is not going to be enough. this may be where most guys fall short. basically, it comes down to this. if you can carry a conversation in portuguese for hours, and are able to crack jokes (that the girl laughs at), you're good to go. if not, it's going to be brutal.

good hunting.

Hombre: Copied from Non-Pro Pickups

Originally posted by Ceenotes on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 12:23 am

Jarule

What kind of uneducated narrow minded remark was that?
Your saying Asians are ghetto in Brazil? I'm Chinese and do you know how much money is put into the economy by Asian, especially Japanese in Sao Paulo.
If your from the US, you must live in fucking North Dakota or on the farms on Arkansas.

"if you're Asian, you'll have a slightly less uphill battle. Asian stereotypes exist in brasil, and it's common for asian brazilians to get made fun of on televion and in real life. koreans and chinese in SP are ghettoized and barely speak portuguese. as such, they are associated as lower class immigrants, such status may be conferred onto you. "

Jarule, if you are talking to an educated women in Brazil most likely from Ipanema up to Barra they will know Asians are far from being ghetto. I went to a club in Ipanema and all the girls asked me What did I do for a living in the states? (I wonder Why?) In SP how can they critiqued Asians, because we have better jobs than the natives and we dont speak Portuguese. There may be some pissed off Brazilians who dont like us, maybe because we moved into there city and were there bosses now but that's too bad. Why? are we ghetto in Brazil do we Sell drugs in the favelas, have shoot outs with the police on the streets or rob tourists?
You must get your education from the favela girls at help. All the Muletta/black girls at help hated me because I wouldn't look twice at them, even if they wanted to give me free pussy I wouldn't touch that shit would a 10 ft pole. They would argue with me, but I tell them to try and learn to read and write and stop letting there fathers fuck them in the ass. No, Asians with the right mind would touch them. Every girl that wanted me when I was in Rio was from SP; a few of them told me If I went there I wouldn't have a problem hooking up. (SP girls must love ghetto men)

The only thing I hated when I was in Rio was all the girls assumed I had large amount of cash on me because I was Asian and was in some type of business.
Next time I go back, I'm going to ask for a discount because were so ghetto and Jarule declared it.

To all the other guys who are reading, language is your priority after that beef up your sweet talk and your in. It's not like the states, they're more ladies than men there.

CN

Hombre: Copied from Non-Pro Pickups

Originally posted by Jarule on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 06:01 am

I knew i might piss some people off. but you guys have to understand that brazilians are NOT PC as to race.

i was watching a prime time soccer show yesterday. you know what the host said? it's scientifically known that negro athletes heal faster than white athletes...so he should be back in the lineup in a few weeks. everyone on the program nodded (including the negro athlete he was referring to!), and not a stir was raised.

imagine if this happened in the u.s.? get over your u.s. sensibilities alright guys? this is a different country. i'm just talking about the BARRIERS people have to overcome to be a successful womanizer in brazil with the NON-PROS.

as for 'ghetto'. i meant ghettoized - meaning relegated to a particular section of Sao Paulo.
i'm asian, i live in sao paulo, and i'm dating an upper class brazilian chick, so i think i may have a better handle on this topic than you. but yes, japanese have a better rep than koreans and chinese.

in any case, i'm just talking generalities based on my experience, and those of my friends. if you choose to disagree or flame way, go ahead.

and i am not saying you'll have tons of success just cuz you're white. ugly is ugly...especially to the body/looks conscious cariocas. but just check the brazilian novelas and tell me how many asian or black guys are made into sex symbols on them. that's a reality.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

I know that this discussion is kind of old but, reading some of the opinions of the people really bugs me. I really don't think there is a problem with picking up non-pro's regardless of race. I've picked up non-pro women on different occasions in Rio. It's just sad to see that the attitudes of some of the club members accurately reflects just how deep rooted racism is in the U.S.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Mello89. What are you talking about!?

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Can anyone explain what "the concept of Ficar" means? Thx.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Pervnpat:

"Ficar" is the same as "going steady", in the junior-high school sense of the word. Twokids that hold hands, occasional kiss but nothing else. Fuck Ficar! On the other hand, among consulting adults, it's become a cutesy slang term for a "on night stand", as in "I don't love you, but let's ficar a little tonight"... assuming all teh other vibes are right, I'm certainly not going to turn that down....

Ardgneas adn hombres:

Yes, Brasil is racist, but it's often in a very different sense than the USA. To begin with, in the US, if you have a drop of black blood, you are black. In Brazil, if you have a drop of white blood, you are white (or at least mullato). It's still racism of course - it's a fucked up world where you're judged by skin color and white is "better" than black, who thought that up?.

White patricinhas live in their own little world, and there aren't that many of them anyway, thank god. But it's both funny and sad when a brown-skinned person (who'd be considered black in USA) shows prejudice to a black-skinned person (also black in USA). To be considered "black" in Brazil, you are "blue-black", anything else is "mullato". Historicaly, it's all left over from slavery - as opposed to in the US, mixed children of master-slave parents were born free - not thru any altruism on the master's part, believe me! This was partly due to the Catholic Church, and partly becuase there weren't enough free men in Brazil (only masters and slaves, no "middle class") so it made economic sense to have someone in the middle to be merchants, artisans, etc. As you can imagine, mixed kids being free meant that minute shades of whtieness/brownness became very important - there are some 200 different terms for skin color, according to Gilberto Frier, Brazil's biggest sociologist.

Also left over from slavery are attitudes towards work - "masters" never did any physical work, especially not the women. So the mark of being "upper class" in brazil is not working, and there are all kinds of social consequences to this day - patricinhas, useless public servants, lots of inherited wealth, etc. Of course, today, the whites accuse the blacks of being "lazy", when it's really the other way around! Another example, up untill very recently, Brazilians would never DREAM of doing a "do -it-yourself" project around the house, I've had Brazilian friends here in US just about have a seizure when they saw me working on my porch (I'm fish-belly white, BTW).

Overlying all this, and in some ways more important today, is class prejusdice. Everyone hates poor people, even if they are poor themselves. Often there is a correlation between poverty and darker skin color, but still it's perfectly normal for a "black" rich businessman to call a "white" waiter or doorman "Boy". (Yes, it's exactly what you're thinking - leftover from slave times, whenever you hear somebody calling someone else "Moco" - "Moe-sue", they're saying "Boy" in the worst sense). Wealth, at least the appearance of it, is everything. It's all-pervasive, way moreso than racism. I've walked into a store dressed in raggy jeans and a oil-stained t-shirt and practically been thrown out by the guards. Return next day in a sports-shirt and slacks and they treat you like a king. Those long lines at the bank? Show up in an Italian Suit and see waht happens... Heheh, a gang of carjackers started operating on Av. Paulista in Sampa simply by wearing a suit and tie and hopping into people's cars. It's not jsut clothign of course, it's attitude, how you talk, how you act, a million little things. Among other little crazinesses, Brazilains wil have long arguments about exact points of grammar, will write to the newspapers, there are grammar and spellign segments on the TV newsmagazine shows, etc.. why? because correct grammar is the mark of the upper-class (and good upper-class portuguese grammar is tuff!). One of Lula's biggest handicaps is that he talks like a hillbilly - in the end, it's endeared him with the voters, but it IS hilarious... the guy sounds like Jethro (in Brazilian).

One last little anecdote to wrap up all this rambling:

When I lived in Recife, I knew this Jamaican guy who had married a Pernambucana. He's been living in Brazil for 10 years but didn't speak a lick of Portuguese. I ask ed him, why not? and he told me:

If I speak English here, they think I some kind of English Lord. If I speak portuguese, I'm jsut another Negro!

That's brazil's racims and class-ism wrapped up in a sentence.....

BS

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Pervnpat:

"Ficar" is the same as "going steady", in the junior-high school sense of the word. Two kids that hold hands, occasional kiss but nothing else. Fuck Ficar! On the other hand, among consenting adults, it's become a cutesy slang term for a "one night stand", as in "I don't love you, but let's ficar a little tonight"... assuming all the other vibes are right, I'm certainly not going to turn that down....

Ardgneas and hombres:

Yes, Brasil is racist, but it's often in a very different sense than the USA. To begin with, in the US, if you have a drop of black blood, you are black. In Brazil, if you have a drop of white blood, you are white (or at least mullato). It's still racism of course - it's a fucked up world where you're judged by skin color and white is "better" than black, who thought that up?.

White patricinhas live in their own little world, and there aren't that many of them anyway, thank god. But it's both funny and sad when a brown-skinned person (who'd be considered black in USA) shows prejudice to a black-skinned person (also black in USA). To be considered "black" in Brazil, you are "blue-black", anything else is "mullato". Historicaly, it's all left over from slavery - as opposed to in the US, mixed children of master-slave parents were born free - not thru any altruism on the master's part, believe me! This was partly due to the Catholic Church, and partly becuase there weren't enough free men in Brazil (only masters and slaves, no "middle class") so it made economic sense to have someone in the middle to be merchants, artisans, etc. As you can imagine, mixed kids being free meant that minute shades of whtieness/brownness became very important - there are some 200 different terms for skin color, according to Gilberto Frier, Brazil's biggest sociologist.

Also left over from slavery are attitudes towards work - "masters" never did any physical work, especially not the women. So the mark of being "upper class" in brazil is not working, and there are all kinds of social consequences to this day - patricinhas, useless public servants, lots of inherited wealth, etc. Of course, today, the whites accuse the blacks of being "lazy", when it's really the other way around! Another example, up untill very recently, Brazilians would never DREAM of doing a "do -it-yourself" project around the house, I've had Brazilian friends here in US just about have a seizure when they saw me working on my porch (I'm fish-belly white, BTW).

Overlying all this, and in some ways more important today, is class prejusdice. Everyone hates poor people, even if they are poor themselves. Often there is a correlation between poverty and darker skin color, but still it's perfectly normal for a "black" rich businessman to call a "white" waiter or doorman "Boy". (Yes, it's exactly what you're thinking - leftover from slave times, whenever you hear somebody calling someone else "Moco" - "Moe-sue", they're saying

(Message edited by badseed on March 16, 2004)

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Nice explanation, BS. I've read some of Friere's articles on race, and have seen some other attempted classification systems for Brasilian's concept of race. Very complex when compared to how things work in the US (BTW, a few months ago there was a nice piece in Scientific American putting the lie to the notion that there is a clear biological/genetic basis for "race." Race, in the end, is a social construction...)

Regarding "ficar," for some older lower-to-middle class adolescents, the term has also come to mean "let's have a casual, short-term sexual relationship. I got an earful about this from a group of teenagers when visiting friends in Petropolis, as their horrified parents listened in. Seems that 12-15 year olds play they ficar game as you've described it, but the older teens often take it further. My lifelong Catholic friends, after hearing the stories their 17 and 19 year old daughters told, took them to the doc the next day and got them birth control pill prescriptions, proving once again that Brasilian Catholicism tends to be more flexible and pragmatic than the other Latin American varieties.

Thanks again for the nice piece on race. I always appreciate your contributions to the understanding of Brasilian culture.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

I would have to give a different twist on "ficar". It actually has a couple of different meanings. One meaning is "to be with". Such as "Eu fico com voce" which means "I'll be/stay with you"; or "Eu fiquei com ela" which means "I was/stayed with her". Its not necessarily a short-term one-night stand kind of thing. Short-term one-nite stands would probably be better described as "casos". An example would be "Eu tive um caso com ela" which means "I had an affair/one nite stand with her."

Finally, "ficar" has another meaning relating to location of something. An example would be "Onde fica o restaurante" which means "where is the restaurant located." In fact, in Brazil, the word "ficar" is most often heard in the context of discussion about location.

Just my two cents,
Peace...Jimbob

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Regarding use of the word "moco", I disagree that it is a demeaning word. It does not mean boy, its meaning is more along the lines of "young man." To suggest it as disparaging I believe might be more closely linked to trying to apply certain American racial attitudes to Brazil. The words "garoto" or "menino" more closely describes "boy" (as "garota" or "menina" describes "girl"). "Moco" and "moca" more accurately describe a post-pubescent male or female and would be used when you don't know their names.

Just another two cents...Peace,
Jimbob

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

BS... although I agree with some of your points regarding race differences in Brazil, I still would like to believe that there is less differentiation in Brazil compared to the US. From what I've seen and experienced, the different races in Brazil are more integrated. In the US, you go to a big restaurant and sure you will see all sort of races, but they will be in seperate tables or groups; the blacks here, the latinos there, the whites on the right and the asians on the left, etc. Now, go to a big restaurant in Sao or Rio and you will also find all kinds of races, but more often than not, they will be evenly distributed within each table or group. I have hundreds of Brazilian friends in both Sao and Rio, European decents, Japanese, all shades of blacks, etc., and they all relate to each like they are of one race -- the human race.

One of these friends is a 25 year old woman who was given a scholarsip to study art in the US for a year. After two weeks studying at the Chicago Art Institute, she called her mother -- perplexed and a little upset; she said, Mama I didn't know I am black!

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Jimbob,
The definitions of ficar you give are accurate, and are the standard "dictionary" definitions, but BS was providing the common use slang definition used primarily but not exclusively by teens. So, "Onde fica Termas L'uomo" is correct usage, as is "Eu fiquei com os meus amigos ontem" and "Voce quer ficar comigo hoje a noite?" Isn't language fun?

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Guys:

Thanks for the comments, once AGAIN I've digressed an entire topic of conversation.. oh well.

My original post about race got kind of munged, I tried to edit it and wound up double-posting, which is why it's a bit unclear. I was trying to show some of the "undercurrents" of racism in Brazil and some of the history. Brazilians pride themselves in not being racist, and at first glance it really does look like a truly integrated society - as RioRules pointed ouot, everybody sits together, talks together, works, loves with no thought of race. My point was just that racism is thare, it's just usually way more subtle than the USA, and often no-one is aware of it but then they act out in a way that is way more racist than most anything in the US.

RioRules: yes, absolutely, I've had brazilian friends that were suprised to find out here in teh US that they were "Black", or memorably one friend that visited here and then called me from home and said "I never realized that my neighbors are black!". From the opposite perspective, a "brother" buddy of mine came down to Rio to hang out with me last year - first he said "Everybody is the same color here, everybody is brown!". I asked him, what the hell aren't you seeing? Rio's got all shades of the rainbow... Two days later he said, "damn you're right, I'm so confused, what am I?" Which I thought was really interesting... my take on it was that when you grow up in a "Black/White" world, then Brown is a mind-blower. First he didn't see it, then he's overwhelmed. Dunno... any of the other "brothas" on this board have similar experiences? BTW, my answer to my buddy was "You are YOU, let's go grab some ass" or something like that...

I'm not trying to be a downer about race in Brazil, things truly are more relaxed than the USA or most any other country. But people are STILL judging skin color - white is "good", black is "bad" and even though everyone gets along fine, everyone also wishes they were whiter (except white folks who all want to get tan). Statistics lie, of course, but any demopgraphics will show you that most poor people are black, most university-educated are white, most politicians aren't black, more blacks are jailed, more blacks are victims of crime, etc. (And of course, it all depends on how you define "black" in Brazil - still the darker you are, the tougher your life is). I remember a line from a TV show that really sums this up, a black kid from the Vidigal favela talking to a white kid from Leblon: "People look at you and you could be from the favela or from the rich neighborhood, people look at me and they KNOW where I'm from". Exactly.

Whcih brings me to language. First of all, yes "ficar" in the relationship sense has come to mean quick sex even though it started as goign steady. "Caso" does NOT mean one night stand, it means "having an affair." As far as racist attitudes, yes "Moco" means "young man" as opposed to boy (garoto, guri, menino, moleque, piralho, mocinho, pia, yayo.... lots of words for boy). But, when you hear a young girl calling a 65-year old waiter "moco", you know it's something more than that. People use it naturally, and pay no mind to being called "moco", but it always struck me as so odd that you'd call someone "moco" even with a big age differnce, then I realized what it was... (OK, so I've got Yankee liberal sensibilities, so shoot me - BTW, since I realized where "moco" came from, I call people "chefe" or "amigo"). AS further proof that this is held over from slavery, when a Brazilian wants to insult you in "poltie society" you'll be called "moco" - as in you crash a high society party and the hostess will call security and say "please escort this MOCO to the door", that sort of thing. I've had it happen to me, at the bank, yelling at the stupid tellers, finally get the manager (who's visibly younger than me) and all of a sudden I go from "senhor" to "moco" as the manager tells me why they aren't going to cash my check. Anyway, beleive me, "moco" is an insult, even if most people don't realize it most of the time.

Equally interesting with language, "Nego" and "Nega" translate as our infamous "N word". But tehy are terms of endearment in Brazil! Hell, my frineds call me "meu Nego" eventhough I'm white. And in general no-one gets upset with racial terms in convesation... perfectly normal, OK to yell "Hey Alemao!" (that's me! german guy!) or "Hey Negao" (big N-), "Hi moreninha", "Hey Japa", "Is the Jambo coming today?", etc. All arabs are "Turcos", we're all "Gringos", spanish are "Galegos", portuguese are "Portugas", and race is treated pretty much the same as nationalies. And I read the same Scientific American article - race IS a cultural construct, the same as nationality, so the Brazilian attitude is "scientifically correct" (even if racism does still rear it's ugly head sometimes). BTW, the word "Crioullo" (Creole) will get you killed in Brazil (or at least sued for libel... happened to a big-mouthed movie star in 2001), it has the same prejorative meaning as "N-" in the US!

Getting back to dating Non-pros (FINALLY).. remember I wrote up above that class differences (money!) are usually way more important than race. Which means that 1) you'll have way more luck tapping a lower-class girl (Zona Norte) than a high-class (Zona Sul) girl. So your best "targets" are shopgirls, centro girls, Zona Norte nightclubs (I'm blanking on the name of the big one that Sandman likes... be careful, most ZN nightspots will get you killed). 2) Treat tehm like a queen - take them out to the fancy restaurant, go shopping for some nice clothes in a place they otherwise could not afford to go to, and generally make them feel like they "belong" in the upper-class. Stay the hell out of Copacabana! Dont' take your girl anywhere near there (ie. no Leme, no Arpoador). Go to "upscale" joints in Ipanema, Leblon, Barra, Laranjeiras, Lagoa, etc. Make them feel like "Pretty Woman", trust me, it works!

OK, rambling done for the day....

BS

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

BS: a digression.
Is moço same as rapaz?

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Along the lines of wanting to be white, isn't one of the reasons that the girls pay so much attention to maintaining their precision tan lines so you can see how white they would be without all that tan? Has to be some reason, since the girls here in America hate to have any tan lines!

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Bendejo: Yeah, rapaz is yet another word for boy. For some reason not as "insulting" as moco, becuase I've never seen anyone younger call someone older rapaz. And again, "moco" is a normal, accepted way of calling someone - I just find it offensive becuase I know the history.

KS: Exactly. Yet another example of the undercurrents of racism - although it's purely unconcious. On a "concious" level, the girls do it becuase the tan lines are also very sexy....

In general, when you are IN a culture, you often don't even realize what is going on, the true meaning of some of the things you do (like my black buddy getting so freaked out at NOT having a clear black/white divide or Brazilians seeing things a whole different way after visiting USA). You have to take a step back from it to see what is going on. I'm Brazilian, but grew up in USA, so I've had a "dual worldview" all my life...

BS

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

According to the good folks at Baron's, rapaz is "young man" and moca is "young lady". As my namorada explained, the age range for these descriptions are late teens to early 20's - college age, mostly.

BS - Damn dude, you just answered a big question from this weekend for me! Luana drove us up to Buzios and instead of getting a map, she slowed down every ten KM and asked for directions. What did she call the guys on the sidewalks and sides of the road? Moco......

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Badseed,

In case nobody's said it lately, thank you for your input.

Popping off a commentary or two may not take much time, but explaining complex issues in a complete and cogent manner takes time and effort.

I, for one, appreciate it.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Fantastic thread the last day or so! Regardless of who is right on the usage of these words and on the issue of class distinction in Brazil it is really interesting to read something that gets this deep into Brazilian society and their language. I am a strong believer in the idea that one's language often determines their vision of the world. Words like moco and the context in how and when it is used are things that you can only learn from spending time in a place and observing the daily life of its inhabitants. Thanks again to everyone for making this thread so interesting lately.

I'll end by mentioning that in the DR color skin ranges from underbaked European look to jet blue black and everything in between. Since black means descending from Haitains, and that is as low as you can go to a Dominican, you will see Dominicans bad mouthing someone for being an ugly black Haitian even though they may be the exact same color. But you will never get them to admit that.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Talking about racism and discrimination... how is it that when one chooses one's friends according to race; one is racist. "He's a racist! He does not have a single black friend." While if one chooses one's woman according to looks, one is very okay; one is even appreciated for one's "discriminatory" good taste.

Just ask a really fat and ugly woman with a lot of facial acne how hard it is to get a job, find friends or worst, find a boyfriend.

I think that ugly people are the most discriminated people on the planet. I believe that they are more discriminated against than people of a different race.

Just take a look at these two statements:

This is very PC and OK. "You will never catch me with an UGLY woman, even if you pay me."

This is not only unPC, but is actually racist. "You will never catch me with a BLACK woman, even if you pay me."

These two statements are even more interesting:

OK. "I will never allow my daughter to marry that UGLY boyfriend of hers."

Racist. "I will never allow my daughter to marry that BLACK boyfriend of hers."

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Interesting thread. If anyone's interested in sinking their teeth a little deeper into the topic of racism in Brasil, I recommend a book by France Twine titled "Racsim in a Racial Democracy: The Maintenance of White Supremacy in Brazil, published in 1998 by Rutgers University Press. A bit academic, but readable and very thought-provoking.

Another interesting take on race in Brasil is found in Eugene Robinson's book, "Coal to Cream." Robinson is an African-American reporter for the Washington Post, and the first part of his book details his observations about race in Brasil, and how confusing they were for a black American.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

There is a popular show on at 9 PM Mon - Sat on Globo called Celebrity. Almost everyone on the program is white.

There is a statue (somewhere near the border of Leme and Copacabana on Avenida Atlantia) of the lady that is given credit for freeing the Brazilain slaves. This happened best I could tell somewhere in the last 1800's. Over 150 years later, slavery continues to have a lasting impact on American society.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Thanks for the compliments, I'm pretty amazed that this digression has generated so much discussion... anyway Bwana is right, race relations are pretty strange in Brazil - overall much better than the USA, but not the "paradise" that first meets the eye or, for that matter, that the upper class of Brazil wants you to believe.

Yet another crazy example - for the VERY FIRST TIME, now, this month of March 2004, O Globo, Brazil's main TV network, is running a show with a black (mullata anyway) female lead character - Thais Araujo. USA has had black leads in network TV shows for how long?? At least 30 years. Brazil, now. Go figure. (Of course, we still think it's a big deal that Whasshername won an Oscar for best actress last year - Hallie Berry). Up untill now, all the leads in Globo's shows have been lily white, this in a country where 90% of the audience is some shade of brown... so this isn't even a case of an under-represented minority, the WHITES are the minority!

To add insult to injury, the name of the show (a novela, of coursse) is "Da Cor do Pecado" - The Color of Sin - and the "opening screen" for the show is a shot of Thais's chest, from neckline to just above nipples. "The Color of Sin" was the old off-handed reference to the fact that the portuguese masters got more turned on by fucking the slave girls than their wives (no suprise there - most portuguese girls are hairy and fat!). Supposedly, the masters would take a shirt from their "mistresses" to bed when they were going to fuck their wives so they could be turned on by the smell! So these are some of the fucked-up roots of the social-sexual-racial tensions that still exist. In this context, it's no suprise that Thais (whos a very cute little spinner, BTW), became famous becuase she starred in a relatively sexually explicit novela on a minor network when she was only 17 (big scandal when her true age came out). Not that white actresses don't also become famous only because of sex, but it's still a shame. BTW, Xuxa, Brazil's most famous blond (pre-Giselle) became famous only after she started fucking Pele, so go figure... (Brazilian joke: Xuxa made her fortune only after her life "went black" - a pun with went to hell).

Anyway, taking this conversation back to Non-pro pickups, these racial attitudes are important to understand, but class distinctions are even moreso. People are very overtly "classist" and you, as a gringo, trying to date a Brasileira are going to run a "class-im" minefield. Some of us can "pass" for Brazilian as long as you keep your Anglo-speaking mouth shut, but most of us can be spotted as a gringo from a mile away. (Even me.. ethnically I'm just a beer-guzzling Kraut, cariocas and other "northerners" always do a double-take when I start speaking portuguese - not may ethnic Germans north of Santa Catarina!). So when these girls are with us, they are on a "classist" tightrope, something like a black dating a white in Mississipi. On the one hand, by being with us gringos, they are almost automatically branded as whores or golddiggers - ESPECIALLY in Copacabana. On the other, there is some status from the fact that she could attract a gringo, and obviously she is hoping for money/gifts etc (even if she is "in love" with you, even the most honorable intentions, etc, the hope for a "better life" is always there). A lower-class girl wil be most attracted to your "money" (ie. an easier target) but will also be most likely to be branded as a whore (then again, she may not care). A higher class girl will not be so entranced by $$, but also will not suffer as much prejudice ("look, she owns a car and she's pretty white, she must have me the gringo at the university" (or some other rationalization)). But the "patricinha" will also care a lot more about her reputation. So it's a really crazy balancing act, depends on how you look (physically), dress, how she looks (color, age, dress), where you go, etc. I don't mean that everyone is stressing out about class all the time (Brazilians are laid-back), or that you should do a sociological analysis every time you meet a girl... just be aware of the class tensions.

Me? I'm a chameleon, I've gone to black-tie affairs with girls in gowns, I've romanced fishermen's daughters while frying fish in a hut. In general that works - go with the flow, do your best to blend in and be a part of the people you are with, even if you can't speak portuguse, your willignness to accept whoever you are with works wonders (and gets those panties off!).

;-)

BS

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

BT - Saw your post after I was done writing my drivel. Funny that you mentioned Novelas also! The slaves were freed by Princessa Isabella in 1888. The famous "birthplace of Samba", Villa Isabel, is also named in her honor, among other tributes to her. She was hairy, fat, and portuguse, of course....

Brazil was the last country in the Western hemisphere to emancipate - and the emancipation led directly to the overthrow of the Imperial family and the founding of the Republic - the slave-owning big landowners were PISSED!

BS

(Message edited by badseed on March 18, 2004)

(Message edited by badseed on March 18, 2004)

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Badseed,

I believe that Mississippi is one of the few states that have their race issues in order. Unlike most of the other so-called United States. Try visting the place and stop referring to fiction as you source of info.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Badseed et al

Great thread! If nothing else, I've learned some new slang to try at this weekends parties.

BS - You're from Santa Catarina? That would explain the German/Brazilian thing. Funny - one of my Brazilian buddies here in USA is from Santa Catarina and he looks as German as Dolph Lungren. He came to a party this weekend and Brazilian girls were saying "Hello. How are you" in english to him because they always think he's American/Euro. When he says Oi back and talks in Portuguese, they immediately know by his looks and his accent that he is from the south.

Speaking of prejudice amongst Brazilians, I am continually amazed by how freely my brazilian friends discuss race, national origin and ethnicity. It comes up so frequently that I am now becoming accustomed to it, yet the fact remains that they have a far more pragmatic world view than do Americans. Which is better - pragmatism that acknowledges color or political correctness that seeks to ignore it?

My girlfriend is from Santa Catarina. Very white, and extremely well educated. She is well spoken, and uses socially refined table manners. Within moments of meeting her, my brazilian buddies commend me on getting such an 'upscale' braziliera. (Yet my American buddies all ask why I'm dating a foreigner who is in this country illegally? Dumbasses!). Anyways, I guess there exists so many different levels of Portuguese grammar that a Brazilian can tell in a moment from what class another Brazilian comes. That is pretty wild.

Regardless of all of the above, when she rocks the bed then gets up to cook me a killer omelette before sending me off to work, she'll always be royalty to this 'Gringo'.

DG

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Mello,

To repeat Kitesurfer's question but with an addition, what the fuck are you talking about?

You're new to the board, at least as far as posts go, so why don't you clue everyone in as to what your issue is.

Seeing as the topic is about Brasil, what does Mississippi have to do with it?

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Kitesurfer,

Don't you think those tan lines are the sexiest things ever invented? I think the lines lets us perverts know exactly where all the dirty little bits start. Yummy Yummy Yummy.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Badseed Policy: Never respond to trolls.

....Especially ones that can't recognize a rhetorical device in a conversation about something completely different. Besides which, I'll be the first to recognize that Missippi has a long and proud history of racial equality and enlightenment, which I should not have made light of:
http://www.nathanielturner.com/lynchingbystateandrace.htm

Kitesurfer:

About the tanlines... exactly! I love it when the little "landing strip" of pubes starts exactly 1 micro-meter inside of the white lines.... (what can I say, I need a lot of visual aids).

DonGringo:
What? Aren't Cearensas enough for you? Now you have to poach on my territory? ;-) Actually, I'm not a Catarina, thank god! Catarina's (also known as Barriga Verde - Green Bellies) are hicks and inbred white trash. Kind of like the Mississipi of southern Brazil without the pickup trucks (and with neo-nazis instead of klan...).

I'm a gaucho - from Rio Grande do Sul, entirely different animal. However, you can't get to to Rio Grande do Sul from the rest of Brazil without crossing Santa Catarina, so all those potato-farmers DO form a useful buffer zone......Heheh as you can see there is a lot of inter-state rivalry in Brazil, I don't even want to tell you what the rest of the country says about gauchos!

Pragmatism is definitely better, even if the prejudices are there, at least they are openly acknowledged and people can take or leave it or challenge it. In my own family, my cousin can't have kids, so they adopted.... twins, boy and girl, half black and half Japanese. To "add insult to injury" they named the kids after the "patriarch" and "matriach" of our family. The old folks in the family (over 60 or so) had a fit - "you can't have those half breed monkeys in our family! and how dare you name them A--- and H----!!". My cousin and his wife said that if the grandparents/uncles etc kept it up, then they'd uproot and move to Bahia. So the younger members of the family had to tell the old folks that Nazi Germany was 60 years ago and that they should calm the fuck down.... Took some doing but all is at peace now, and my two new little cousins are accepted members of the family (that and the worst hardheads in the family have died out... time heals all wounds!). Now could the whole discussion have even taken place in the USA? Dunno, but I don't think so. Still it's better to get it all out in the open and hash it out rather than have a long-simmering feud, neh?

BS

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

So they named the kids Adolph and Hitler? Sorry, couldn't resist, you left yourself wide open on that one! Next beer at that strip club in Burlington, the one with the Brasilian strippers, is definetly on me.

One of my Hessen neighbors used to have a little neo-Nazi shrine in one of his rooms - very fucking illegal in Germany, as I understood at the time. Turns out, his major beef was with the Turks (I guess he doesn't like donnerkabobs) and since the Turks are new to Germany and weren't part of the Holocost, well, it was okay to use Nazi symbols if you were just going after Turks.

Germans can be a little odd at times!

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

You are wrong! Us Germans are very well adjusted! Just ask BrazilSpecialist... and if you don't agree with us, we'll just invade your country!

;-)

BS

P.S. Yes, I did leave myself wide open... hehe, n/p, I've heard a zillion Nazi jokes before. Actually it was Amaelie and Heinrich, guess it does no harm to write that..

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Hey guys I'M BAAACCCCCKKKKK,

I couldn't help but put my 2 cents in this very interesting discussion. A few observations and comments:

1) Isn't it funny how an intial post about dating non-pros can turn into a deep discussion of the social fabric of an entire country.

2) Posters here continually use the terms "race" and "racism" when referring to Brazilian society. I would contend that "race" is a particularly American concept. While there are some similarities between the histories of the two countries, all of these posts show the problems of looking at another society through one's own culutral lens. Simply put, if you are looking for reflections of your own society in another, you will find it.

3) Several posters have ackowledged the fact that they or others were speaking from their own experiences in Brazil. Please do not forget this. Everyone experiences things differently so the "general" observations that some posters have made may very well have no application to what someone else has seen.

4) At the risk of sounding arrogant (like I care), if you would like to have a fuller understanding of Brazilian society, I would suggest talking to a "real" Brazilian - someone raised in the country. I happen to have a non-American background and I find that most of these observations about Brazil are being made by outsiders. It's comparable to asking a frenchman about American culture.

That's all.

P.S. I would hope that we all have learned that civility is a virtue.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

I love Brazil, but they are just as "rascist" as American society. Have you ever noticed how most of the beggars on the street are black? Have you ever noticed how all the billboards outside and in the malls have white people on them? (by the way, I love the huge one of Giselle Bunden in Ipanema) Have you ever noticed how most of the girls in the malls are babe-like and white-like. Every country and people are rascist to a certain extent.

As for fucking ugly girls.... look... I've done my share of charity work when it comes to heinous hags. You know how it is... you have a few beers and go to bed with an Indian Princess and wake up the next morning with a God Damn ugly ass whore for Hell. I don't mind saying that I won't fuck any more ugly girls... even with Catacony's dick.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Aldaron:

Of course they are just as racist, it's jsut in a different way, that's all. No such thing as paradise.

Another aspect of the slave period in Brazil that still affects society to this day was the portuguese attitude towards the slaves and towards colonizing Brazil in general (read it up in Gilberto Freye, dont' believe just me, I'm not 100% Brazilian-raised). I'll contrast it with colonization and slavery here in the US - the Early English settlers came here (for the most part) to stay and establish a new homeland, when they broguht slaves to teh US, they were a relatively expensive commodity so the masters had some interest in their welfare and creating a self-reproducing slave community, at the same time, they brutally repressed any vestiges of African culture becuase it would interfere with the captive communiteis they were trying to establish (and lets' nto forget taht they jsutified slavery by saying that they were "Christianizing" them). Yes, I'm making huge generalizations here, but I want to make a point. And that is that the Portuguese, on the other hand, in colonizing Brazil wanted to get rich quick - coe over from Portugal, run a planation for 10 years and tehn go home rich.. no intention of building a new homeland. And slaves were cheap, just a week or two trip across the Atlantic to Africa. Result? The portuguse were barbarously cruel to their slaves - just to give some of the worst examples, the early gold mines in Minas were dug ou tby slaves who worked in chain gangs untill they died, never allowed out of the mine and had to wear Hannibal-Lector type iron facemasks the whole time so they wouldn't steal any ore by swallowing. Average life expectancy in teh mines was months. I won't go into what happend on the plantations, again read it up in Freyre. BUT - and this is a big but - just as the portuguese didn't give a damn for the slave's lives, they didn't care about their culture either - if they wanted to sing african songs, worship african gods, speak african languages, so what, let them... The portuguse weren't trying to establish a culture, so it was no "threat". So... today,as opposed to the US where Black Culture is only accepted by the "mainstream" once it's been "whitened" (with maybe the exception of hip-hop), in Brazil the Black Culture IS the Brazilian Culture. They still speak african languages in Bahia, Candomble is everywhere, the main musical forms - Samba, Funk, Bossa, etc are "Black", the concept of female beauty which tey are just now discovering in USA - big butt, small waist, well muscled, well proportioned - is Black, the entire popular culture is Black. But, as Aldaron noticed, Blacks are still brutally repressed - who are the beggars, who gets killed by the police, who is in jail? More "blacks" than whites, that's for sure. And why is the "commercial" culture dominated by white images? (as oppsoed to teh popular culture). Obviously whites trying to feel superior, but also - to some extent - blacks letting them.. "commercial culture" exists to move product, so why are black and brown brazilains still buying stuff which has marketing that screams "You ought to be white!"?? Who knows? Got me! In USA, there would be and have been boycotts. Are BRazilians more passive? less "sensitive"? Do they secretly wish that they WERE white (as I touched on in an earlier post)? My best theory is that since nearly everyone is mixed, peopel identify with their "white side" when they are responding to "white" marketing. Another way of saying it is that in a mixed society, there is always someone else you can look down on.... It's a puzzle.

OK, I don't know why I'm in a socio-psychobabble mood lately, Please forgive me, guys. Look, again, all this stuff is for the most part waaaaay down in the Brazilian subconcious, you'll be perfectly fine in Brazil treating EVERYONE with respect and openeness (which is what you should do anyhow) and not worrying about 500 years of history . And if you really want to undertand "Black Brazil", go to Salvador - as they say it is "Brazil's Heart", in many ways it's more african than Africa. Provider scene is so-so (hey it's Brazil, you can ALWAYS find great pussy).. but the culture is mind-blowing.

Abraco,

BS

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Badseed, I can't get over how interesting your posts about Brazil are. I had a vague unerstanding that the south of the country was mostly of northern European descent and culture while the north east was very "West African". And I guess the interior is suppose to be either Indians or small dirt farmers.

In the US we have seen a real homoginization of our culture in the last 2 or 3 decades. And probably not for the better in a lot of ways. I guess the same thing is probably taking place in Brazil as people's incomes and access to outside media rises.

Regarding the adoption of the "half breeds" into your family, I had a teacher back in college (late 60s) who claimed the only way to solve the entire race issue was to somehow totally integrate the housing market right down to individual streets. I guess the idea being that it's harder to hate your next door neighbor than someone across town or in another state. Along with this maybe there should be some sort of government program to incourage interracial marriages. Even if they are same sex. Maybe there could be a substantial tax break for couples of different races. Once all the kids start showing up looking like a "rainbow coalition" it would pretty much put an end to most of the basis for racism.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Badseed, you speak the truth. The only reason I brought that up is that some have a tendency to put other cultures up on pedestals when in fact, ours is much much positive and tolerant. Why, just the other night, a black man tried to sell me a truck and a cell phone plan on the television. I'm not sure I've seen that in Brazil. Most other countries around the world are immensely more rascist than the USA and still dominated by caste systems and social orders.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

I think that this thread shows that issues such as race and culture are very complex. I would suggest that anyone interested in exploring these subjects with regard to Brazil, the US, or anyplace else should do his own research. There are plenty of great resources out there. I think that a website like this is better suited to getting pussy than delving into the structure of a society.

Furthermore, I would hope that no one think of themselves or anyone else as an expert on race, racism, culture, etc. All these posts show how there are a variety of views on these topics based on our personal experiences and backgrounds.

Finally, Aldaron I have to take issue with your last post. My friend, I think that many African Americans do not find the fact that some of them are able to appear in TV commercials to be a sign of racial equaltiy or a fundamental change in the American social structure. And its interesting that you didn't provide an example from another country showing how it is so much more "racist" than the US.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Titus... you make your own way in this world and if you always want to make yourself a victim, then that is what you will be.

Once again, why am I in this thread?

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

"Once again, why am I in this thread?"

My thoughts exactly.

Ciao

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

None of ya want to fuck our wonderful pasty white, fat-assed american women...damn racists.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

I must admit I hate my own race for sperm catching purposes, european american broads are probably the worst, 1 quality that I look for is the inability to communicate verbally so they have 1 strike against them already, plus they just dont appeal to my primative sexual appetite, Brown girls are just hotter in general , no matter what the country of origin ,maybe its the ass ? Then you have the brown ladies who are horrible , and the pink ones who are great , Its all very confusing ,I think poor girls who have nothing to lose and everything to gain are more subserviant,and accomadating than a lady you have no kind of leverage over weather you are talking about money or percieved class Its funny because I am as low class as they come and the brazillian ladies think im a catch, we will see wat happens when I get down there ,maybe they are blowing smoke up my ass

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Titus, you are irrelevant in this thread and on this website. You haven't put forth anything other than what a badass you claim to be. You've already been told more than once throughout this thread, but here it is again......


Do you remember how you used to use those all the time?

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

I believe from my experience traveling across the globe that people, in general, are more nationalists, regionalists and classists than they are racists.

Japanese discriminating against Koreans; Chinese against Tibetans; Jews against Arabs; Serbs against Croatians, and countless more nationalities discriminating against their own race. Big city people looking down on small town people; rich people discriminating against poor people; rich countries against poor countries, etc.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Aldaron,

Please do not address me until you improve your ability to read the English language. Now I realize that Badseed isn't the only Nazi on this board.

As for the topic, how about refocusing on the title of this thread - picking up regular Brazilian girls.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Aldaron and gang:

The best cure for nasty little trolls is to ignore them. They thrive on attention...

Responding to your earlier post, yeah I didn't realize that I was sounding like one of thos "bash America first" guys. Rest assured, I'm an equal-opportunity basher....

As for discrimination in general, yeah RioRules, no joke, people ALWAYS find a reason to feel superior and to put down their neighbor. It's the human condition. Fortunately, we can all fight against it just by being open and generous with all (except trolls....).


BS

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Titus,

Badseed recognizes that racism exists and explains its nature and its origin.

A nazi attempts to justify it.

Can you actually not discern the difference?????

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

I think you would be hard pressed to find a racist on a sex travel website , the racists are the guys who think its their duty to perpetuate what ever race they are because of fear that the whites,blacks,hispanics,asians,arabs are "taking over" but if we simply talk about our perceptions of race relations abroad that isnt racist. I had an argument with a brazilera last week ,1 of the other strippers at her club ,caught my eye (a black girl with an amazing bunda) she wouldnt put in the good word for me because she said I dont need to go with black girls ,she finds excuses not to help me whenever I inquire about 1 of her friends seems she is jealous .Even though she married a gringo last month for papers and they are living togeher, but anyway thats not important,what she said actually shocked me talking about how black girls have "bad" hair and other "bad" physical traits,so the straight hair that I have is good? I think its different ,not good ,not bad. I tried to explain but she wasnt hearing it and I consider that ignorant and not really racist,the scary thing is that this girl is an educated woman I just thought it was odd

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

I believe the problem lies in the definition of the word racism. And I must admit that it is hard to define. What is easier though, is to see the manifestations of racism. On the other hand, we also have to see the different gradations within racism. Surely, the persecution, prosecution and execution of the German and Polish Jews by the Nazis is the worst kind of racism. Another extreme form is slavery. Added to these two -- maybe just a notch below -- is discrimination. Then, there is exploitation.

But according to history and even in current events, most often these inhuman acts are practiced more against one's own race or within the same race.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

It speaks volumes that not one of you has ventured to define the concepts of race or racism. You just assume that everyone knows what those words mean and proceed to use them in your analyses. For example, the difficulty in defining racism is exactly why it is NOT easy to identify its manifestations and gradations.

If you are sincerely interested in exploring the subjects of race, racism, culture, history, imperialism, fascism, etc., CH is not the place to do it. So let's stop all this fake intellectual BS (pun intended) and get back to what this site is about - getting laid.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Did someone say something?

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Titus,

If all you're looking for is a hot body to masterbate into, fine. Just pay the fee and be done with it.

Some of us prefer to have a mental connection, even if it's transitory. Some of us like to improve our odds of NP success by understanding the underlying issues and motivations.

Some of us like knowledge for the sake of knowledge.

Why are you so offended?

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Still looking for your FIRST trip report and or photos.....Titus, where are they?

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

BS,
Well, it was a nice thread until it got hijacked...
Bwana

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Badseed
Thanks for the continued good work with this thread. I've learned a lot, and it has provided some very lively debate with my brazilian friends this weekend.

Still, I cannot help but wonder which is worse?

Being the victim of discrimination?, or being subjected to an arrogant Frenchmen asswipe like Titus?

Clearly the latter. In protest, I'm pouring the rest of my French wines down the toilet. Ce la vi.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Ce la vi...too much, DG!

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Bwana:

Thanks for the moral support, but this ain't MY thread, we're all just having fun here - BS'ing.

DG:

Point taken, but where's the evidence that our troll is French? Anyway, I'm still too busy working thru my anti-Canadian prejudices (arrogant Molson-swilling mo'fuckers) to have anything bad to say about the French. C'est la vie, indeed.....

;-)

BS

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

I like fucking French girls from Quebec, so I guess I'm a Quebecois collaborator!

DG, I asked my fuckbuddy in Montreal last month if the Quebecois really do tailgate cars with Ontario tags and try to cut them off and stuff. She smiled and said "Absolutely, whenever we can". Can't you canucks just all get along?

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Did I misspell C'est la vie? Shame on me for mangling such a pretty language. You would think after studying french for 9 years in english speaking Canadian school, I might remember more french. Oddly enough, many of my anglo teachers who were FORCED to teach us french would let us goof off rather than actually learn french.

The prejudice between the french and english is legendary. In Canada, the entire country is 'legally bilingual', for the sake of equality for a minority of 25% of the (french) inhabitants. I could go on at great length (BS style) with the history and details of this issue, but perhaps another time if anyone is interested. For now, suffice it to say that Titus reminds me of the arrogant french attitudes from which I'm happy to be FAR away.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Did I mention that the fuckin' Canadians go and steal all thebest garotas? Even when they're in Floriduh, they are hittin' on the ex-pat garotas when they could perfectly well be fucking Cubanas or Hatiennes or little red-neck chicks. It's like an obesession or something... and they can't even spell their own froggy language! What's up with that?

;-)

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups



Here's my girlfriend now. My age - different race.

I'm sensing some hostility here BS. Does the fact that I'm tagging a garota from YOUR homeland instead of mine upset you?

Am I mixing my demongringoseed with your race?

Could it be that you're really a half-nazi/half-latino ticking timebomb of racial supremist hatred and envy?

Or perhaps you'd be happy to see me with a female of my own race, and age?



Should you opt to sentence me to dating my own race? Give me garotas, or give me death! ;)

(Message edited by DonGringo on March 22, 2004)

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Is that second garota Canadian???? If so, you have my forgiveness, pity, and full dsipensation to fuck every garota in Rio (not that you need it). Just don't come to Porto Alegre!

;-)

BS

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

In SPITE of the fact that Hugh Hefner married a Canadian, what remains of Canadian women leaves me 'largely' unimpressed.

Now, that's not to say that I wouldn't consider Titus' sister...

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

DG,

In the future please refrain from posting pictures of Titus' wife on this website.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Damn...gotta be quick to hit the punch line first around here.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

That looks like Fat Bastard in Austin Powers.

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

DG:

Thanks for bringing the topic of conversation in this thread squarely back to where it belongs - your sick perversions!

;-)

Abraco,

BS

P.S. You're sure that last pic is not Titus' MOTHER?

(Message edited by badseed on March 23, 2004)

Hombre: Moved from Non-Pro Pickups

Hey fellas,

I haven't looked at this thread for a few days and I'm so glad to see that the level of discourse has risen so high since my last post. If anyone was wondering why I objected to the earlier discussion of serious issues on this thread, I hope that the last series of posts shows why.

Badseed, Dongringo, Ejack1, and Aldaron - forgive me for sounding brutish, but I wonder how tough any of you are away from a keyboard?

In any event, this entire thread supports that American adage, "ignorance is bliss."

P.S. If any of the above mentioned hombres would like to contact me live, I can be reached at (800) 382-5968 or 1-800-FUCK YOU

Bye, bye.

Watch out guys.... he's going to check his "INTEL" in Rio.

I am honored to be included in such noble company.

bye bye? as in he's leaving?? (sniff) I was just starting to warm up to him. The big lug

Titus, we'll miss your contributions, and especially your charm! As a first step towards reconciling my inner angst against the french, this morning I had a croissant with breakfast. Admitedly, this is only baby steps, but one day I hope we can be friends. A good first step on your part might be to post something of value (after doubling your dose of prozac)

Ejack...be careful of the company you keep. Badseed and Aldaron have been known to corrupt innocent newbies. Hell, before I met Sandman, I was just another wide-eyed, Opie Tayloresque DonJuanabee myself.

Having been a member of this board for sometime now, I rarely feel compelled to reply to individual postings. But, having read several postings from Titus, I would love to arrange a meeting "away from the keyboard" as he puts it. I will be in Rio next week and would like him to 'feel' my point of view. Ball's in your court Titus - what's it gonna be?

Nomad
Before saying "Ball's in your court Titus - what's it gonna be?", you'd be well-advised to take caution when exposing your balls to a frenchman - rumor has it that the french will eat just about anything, after enough brie and merlot.

If you don't believe me, just ask the calfs' brains and snails.