Alright, I understand that. I've been over 40 times this year alone, close to 200 total, and I can count the number of bad experiences on one hand. Like a chica just laying there or letting myself get fleeced for money.....in other words, both extremes.

Raise your standards, although even the most sophisticated chica's are pretty wacko, if they see you often enough you'll get treated better cause they know you will be back, soon.

I don't frequent the ally bars, except Miami and Hong Kong, no street girls, and certainly not any SG'S for anything long term.

Recently, I was interested in a stripper (didn't work out).
But I still go to the club to watch my friend & her sister perform. (Ostensibly, neither of them go to the hotel...)

Her sister continues to promote a possible relationship.
The other day she implored me not to go to "La Coahuila" when leaving the club. I just teased her and said that as far as I knew, it was a distant state in Mexico (It is).

So last night, I admitted to the sister that I did know where it was, and often went to Adelita's to drink with friends from my job, but I never traded there.

I quipped that why would I pay 60 bucks when a chica in the bar where she works offered me sex for 15 bucks (Yes, that's another story..).

She asked me who, I wouldn't say, then she started guessing. The guesses amounted to a good list of suspects for future research.

This is a good idea for prospecting.

(The most beautiful girl in the bar was at the top of her list. This suprised me because I've done four lap-dances [same day] with her and she never offered sevices)

Pauncho

Señor Pauncho:
I must say that your prospecting trick is both brilliant and hilarious. All this TJ research is a good thing...

I wasn't propecting, just jerking her chain (because she often yanks on mine.).

The idea came afterwards....

Manipulating Chicas; We have the advantage of education. Pavlov's experiments (if I remember correctly) showed that "partial reinforcement" is more effective method of "training" a behavior than is constant reinforcement. So;
Always be nice, but provide the "reward" less often. More effective than a
constant, consistent reward.

Ask yourself what her reward is (money, feeling of power over men, etc. ?) and ration it properly. Ask yourself what your reward is too !

Yessss, indeedy, Señor Punocha... err... Punch-ao, err... Phuc-ano... err... Up-nacho... err... err... Pauncho. In fuct, you are referring to concepts originating briefly in Pavlov (benign bell-ringing salivating-dog dude) and reaching fruition in Skinner (egg-head "fascist" pidgeon dude). The most effective "schedules of reinforcement" are "intermittent" rather than "continuous". They occur at unpredictable, irregular intervals, or after an unpredictable, variable number of responses. Intermittent schedules may lengthen the "aquisition phase" time to condition the chica specimen, but the desirable chica behavior will take longer to "extinguish." And there ya have it.

We dogs have to know these things, you know.

"Latinas ring my bell"

Salivating Dogster

Regarding the power-game of chica-control ... you gents are reading up at ASF again? Hmmm?

ASF? ?Que es esto?

Senorpanucha,

Why does manipulating a girl's jealousy make someone scum, while manipulating her greed is okay?

Given that we're in a forum dedicated to the psychology of the chicas, and given further that it is obviously in relation to the underlying theme of the entire site -- discussion and information exchange focused on getting sex in places remote -- I think his post is entirely appropriate. (Of course, it may not be a technique you're comfortable with, but that's a horse of another color...)

Dem Gnomes

Sr Pauncho,

If you want to get her by her jealousy, you're going to have to poke her with a sharp stick, at least a little bit.

First, make sure she doesn't witness most of it -- her imagination will be worse than anything you can do directly. Better if she hears it from her sister/prima/amigas/etc.

Second, you want competition. So, take your tit-sucking and back-rubbing up a notch, and wind up with at least one girl in some sort of public "Well, nobody else here is willing to suck my cock, so I guess I'll give Diabolica here a try".

Better still, take two of them for a competition.
"That's right, ladies, $20 each for a dick-sucking contest. 5 minutes a piece. Winner gets another $20."

I'm overstating the case a little bit here, but you want to convey the impression that Diabolica has used her vermicious knid to pull you into the kind of relationship that your ex (was it "L"?) wanted you to be in, except that Diabolica's involves a knob-swallerin', bone-smugglin' good time. Possibly with some money changing hands.

Rots of Ruck

Geez, I don't think I've heard vermicous knids mentioned since I was in grade school...

{{Better still, take two of them for a competition. "That's right, ladies, $20 each for a dick-sucking contest. 5 minutes a piece. Winner gets another $20."}}

Oh, man, I'm crackin' up here. That's wickedly hilarious.

I think my style would be a little different.

"That's right, ladies, $20 each for a dick-sucking contest. One gets the left side, the other gets the right. Winner gets another $20. And if I can't decide, we'll go into overtime."

> Geez, I don't think I've heard vermicous knids
> mentioned since I was in grade school...

Wow. What kind of grade school did YOU go to?

Dem Gnomes

"The best doctors are....."

A. A previous favorita returned to her home town to see a doctor "better than available in Tijuana".

B. Another friend (from a rural, medically underserved area) has a sick mother who is coming to Tijuana for treatment for diabetes.

My take on this; Mexicans have a strong sense of "regionalism" - a loyalty to their state or even city. I think this "the best doctor are..." is just another manifestation of the same. These people are traveling long distances for treatment of relatively common conditions.

Mexicans set great store by their dichos (proverbs & sayings), like:

"Country Girls are BETTER !!!"

I finally met the mother of my friend "Lady Lap-Dance". She's 31 years older than my friend (and thereby my exact age).

I told my friend that I really liked her mom, and she replied "She's a country girl, they are the best !" with the emphasis of strongly-held belief. I note that my friend was a country girl before becoming a Tijuana Lap-Dance provider.

Maybe that's why I like her. Maybe she doesn't realize that she's a city girl now.

¡ No Importa El Dinero !

We've all heard this bromide, usually as a prelude to proof of its falsity.

But, .... I was massaging the back of "Lady Lap-Dance's" sister-in-law (who is also a dancer/fichera) when several clients entered the bar. I said "There are clients, and they have money, not like me." and urged her out of her chair. She sat back down and said emphatically " ¡ No importa el dinero !" .

Mind you, this girl is NOT even remotely infatuated with me, more like she tolerates rather than likes me (but loves back-rubs)

(Just for entertainment's sake - in mid back-rub - I ask "Do you know the difference between making love and a back-rub ?". If they answer "No", I say "Me neither .... same feelings, different parts....". I keep hoping that maybe one will ask herself "If he can make me feel this good just rubbing my back, what would he be like in .....")

"Some day I'm gonna' show up on your front porch to visit you !"
I've had four chicas tell me this, all with the same sneer. It must have some special meaning. In the last instance, it was two sisters. I was unkind enough to tell them that the INS never permits women north of the border who have ever held tarjetones (SMM Hooker Health Cards), with the possible exception if a guy married her. (They didn't like my response.)

aLOT OF TIMES THE BEST DOCTORS ARE WHATEVER SHE CAN CONVINCE YOU HER "SICK MOTHER" NEEDS TO SUCK MORE MONEY OUT OF YOU.

Response to "Dem Gnomes" (May 20th);

The difficult issue is her brother is watching me do these things with her sister (and the sisters live together) and her cousins and two other female relatives.

So I never know who is telling who what.

Recently I've had a couple of "Lap-Dance Providers" go shy on me because they consider one of their Co-workers (a relative too) my novia.

This cuts down on my fun, of course.

The odd thing is the "novia" and I are barely speaking and are avoiding each other.

But I am still treated like "un ajeno" (property of another).

Fortunately this only inhibits half of the club girls when I am giving massages (something I really like to do).

But it pisses me off during a lap-dance when my provider says "I don't want to do THAT. I am embarrassed because your sister-in-law is watching. (and it wasn't even the "novia's" sister, but her cousin - who was very busy giving someone else a lap-dance).

The moral of this story;

Don't fall in love in your favorite bar !

UNAM, UABC, and now; L-D University

Recently, while lounging in "Club Lap-Dance, I noticed that about a third of the guys entering would turn right back around and leave rapidly (and they hadn't even seen my face LOL).

So I got thinking. The touts outside are always saying "Titty Bar, Titty Bar". And more often than occasionally, there are no titties to be seen.

So I took a dancer aside and said; "You know why these guys leave so fast?"
She didn't know. So I told her. Then I suggested that, as she was standing nearest the door, that if she saw guys come in and begin to turn to leave, it was her last chance and she better show some tits.

She has started doing this, and scores lap-dances (i.e., nets $15.00) about 80% of the time. Wow, does she listen to me now.

So I have continued to observe and suggest. Yet another trick and she scored two lap-dances in a short time. And of course, I've have shared these and other things with her co-workers (OK, family) and not with her competition in the same bar.

And then I get the added compensation of teasing them that they owe me commisions. They've been awfully nice to me lately (we are not talking services here).

All this success sort of disappoints me as I am totally unable to seduce any of them (although I still try valiantly). Yet again I tried (during a massage) the line "Do you know the difference between a massage and making love". They often respond "Noooo...." whereupon I quip "Neither do I... Same feelings, different parts...".
Always good for a giggle.

All of these girls work more than one club, so.... the next time some lap-dancer has gotten your attention in the most pleasant way, she may be a student in Señor Pauncho's "Lap-Dance University".

26. One night in "Club Lap-Dance", the manager wasn't handy, so I had to write my own lap-dance ticket. When it came to the time, I inserted a time about 4-5 minutes later than the actual time.

This lap-dance was with the new girl. When the end of three songs came up, she said "Time's up". I told her "NO, that was only two!" (I had kept her so busy fighting me off that she wasn't sure.) She checked the time on the ticket and gave me one more song.

27. Watch your cabs. When I arrived at a party, two or three 8-9 year-old boys started laughing and cahnting "La Coahuila, La Coahuila..." pointing out that my cab was from "la coahuila" to everyone there. The devil is in the details. Take a series of two cabs or walk out of the zone, guys.

HOW TO MEET GIRLS - IGNORE THEM
This morning I approached one of the "park bench" seats that line Revolución, facing away from the street. There was a pretty girl sitting there, trying to ignore me (She; about 20 years, 100 lbs - Me; 57 years, 260 lbs). There was a cup of coffee near her and I asked if it was hers, she said "No.", so I tossed it and sat down. She looked like she didn't want to be bothered, so I shut up, looked the other way, and drank my soda.

Along came Liliana (a mature provider whose services I have never used) with a gentleman. She stopped, we talked (entire conversation in spanish), she introduced him as "a friend", and asked me "Is this your girlfriend ?". I responded without thinking "Deseo que si, pero es nada mas que una extranjera bonita..." ("No, I wish it were so, but she is nothing more than a beautiful stranger..."). She cracked a smile.

Liliana & Friend left. In a few seconds time, Miguelito showed up (he is an itinerant vendor/shoe shine technician who may also be homeless. We know each other by site, but I hadn't known his name due to a speech defect. One time at club lap-dance, I had given him a dollar to drop in a girl's G-string, so he remembered me.). She knew him. Of course, I used this opportunity to ask his name (and thereby talk to her).

A couple of more passing girls joined the conversation and we introduced all around. The passing girls left, and the young woman & I began to talk the usual courteous questions and answers. The business we were sitting in front of opened up for the day, and she went to work.

This whole "mini-adventure" (less than 5 minutes) was an accident of fate, and, to me, a damn good lesson. There are chica psychology lessons here:

28. Compliments are considered gallantry in Mexico, and are not only accepted, but are often expected !

29. PAY NO ATTENTION TO YOUR AGE AND APPEARANCE ! (I was in my "Pauncho Loco" disguise).

30. Normal Mexican girls are quite proper. They may want to (or be willing to) talk to you, BUT, some kind of proper "excuse" is required. (If your are a mere "nodding acquaintance" of an acquaintance, that can be enough)

30. CHICAS (including sexo-serviadoras) ARE KIND to the retarded, the infirm, and the handicapped. It doesn't hurt to be the same, and they will like you for it.

Hey Senor Pauncho where is this "club Lap Dance" that you always make reference to. I am looking for a more laid back titty bar to down a few beers in from time to time.

31. Light Up; The other day I spent a little time in La Tropa.

The dancer didn't see my dollar bill so the waiter lit up his lighter behind me - momentarily.

If there is no waiter (or if - like me - you don't want to tip) A small penlight will draw them like moths to a flame.

32. Chica Psychology Note: Put some money in and turn 'em loose. They love it. Also sit close enough that you can see the numbers being played. Later on you can check them against the jukebox to see what songs and artists she likes.
(Instant Spanish Lesson; Rockola (Row-Ko'-Lah) = jukebox)

33. Chica Psychology Note: Two dollar bills are considered GOOD LUCK, especially in the south. A brand new one makes a good nominal gift.

34. The lesser of two assholes principle;

Twice this weekend I played this role:

1. In "Club Lap-Dance" La Paloma (the lap-dance ticket writer) had her ice cream stolen by the bartender who ate half, then the DJ ate the other half.

La Paloma was enraged. She stomped off towards the rear of the club. I asked the bartender did they keep ice cream in the back, he said "No".

So I asked him what flavor, ran a few doors down and bought another, returned with the cone hidden behind my back like flowers.

When I found La Paloma, I whisked the cone out like flowers and presented it to her. The warm "Thank you" I received was well worth the price.

It wasn't that long ago that she didn't want to speak to me. We aren't to the kiss on the cheek stage, but she smiles at me now.

2. In the border line about 7PM, there was a young beautiful chicana with a baby. I complimented her on her child, and she politely, almost cooly, thanked me. Then a drunk in front of her did the same, and then hassled her in a friendly way.

She hated it. I ended up talking to her (The lesser of the two...) and helping her carry stuff.

The occurence of these two events on the same day drove it home to me; You don't have to be perfect, just the lesser of the two assholes.

35. Lies: City of origin, & How long I've been here.

Many chicas will lie about their city of origin or how long they've been in town. If this matters to you, learn about regional differences in spanish such as:

People from Guadalajara "Tienes (algun)" instead of "Hay (algun)". Any who claims to be from the actual city of Guadalajara will instantly answer the question "Que sector ?" immediately, instead of hedging. However many residents of nearby towns will say Guadalajara when asked.

People from Durango indicate heighth of objects/animals/people as do residents of the U.S. People from most other parts of mexico do it mexican style (3 different ways for things/animals/people). People from Durango do NOT say "viento" for wind, but "Aire".

People newly in Tijuana do not understand "Frontierismos" like "Checkar" (for "Ver" or "Determinar" or "Ahi te uatcho"
and stuff like that.

Amazingly, these things become very obvious even when you can't speak a lot of spanish.

Pauncho

36. THE POWER OF BELIEF

The other day i wanted a little more info on a chica. I gave the doorman a TWO DOLLAR BILL (LUCK!) and he showed me her full name on the sign-in list.

On a previous occasion, he wouldn't even let me look. This time he even wrote it down for me.

37. "DRESS 'EM UP

I was dressed up for a "date" with "S", a lovely fichera dancer that gave me 1 & 1/2 hours in the room for twenty bucks the day before.

The date was over - 1 & 1/2 hour dancing, 1 & 1/2 hour in the room. I had paid before we started on a "this is all I got, you can decide what I get for this" basis.

I had about 12 dollars to my name (including pocket change), and needed to kill some time, so I took a tour of the alley, walking along the sidewalk within grappling range.

Under the heart of the dragon, in front of Club Hong kong, stood Susana - short, black hair below the shoulders, and kinda' cute. She snagged my arm and opened the conversation with "fucky-sucky 15 dollars". I politely explained that I couldn't afford it.

I went back to my room, changed into my "Pauncho Loco" outfit, packed my bags, and took another turn through the alley. As I passed Susana, she snagged me again and offered the same for 20 dollars.

I guess it pays to dress up a little.

38. WANT TO GET LUCKY, COWBOY ?

During a brief interchange with a fichera at Bar Fracaso, I quipped that I would need to buy me a plaid shirt and a cowboy hat to get along there. My dance partner agreed.

So I bought me a really fine (OK, 10 bucks worth) plaid shirt.

When the weekend came I put on a nice knit shirt and went to club "Lap-Dance". One dancer I know let out a low whistle teasingly. Later on I went back wearing the plaid shirt, and the dancer and the Paloma wolf whistled loudly.

Maybe it's OK to dress western, instead of just "nice".

39. MORE VARIANT SPANISH - A QUESTION
(See #35 above) I encountered another spanish variant. I would like your help.

It took me a while to learn that "TIME" in English is both "TIEMPO" and "VEZ" in Spanish. "VEZ" is more often used when we would say "TIME" when meaning "INSTANCE".

After struggling to get it right, I really noticed when a chica used "Tiempo" when "Vez" should have been used. Also, she can whistle a tune without using her teeth (Mexican Style). It's almost like she's a gringa or something.

She claims she's from Veracruz. Does anyone know in what part of Mexico people speak like that (if any) ? (or whistle like that ?)

40. POOR - LONESOME ME-E-E
How does it go ?
."There must be some way I can lose, these lonesome blues.
. Forget about that past and find, somebody new...."

One of my Personal projects is to get out and do some new things (Previously Rodeo, Gamecock fights, ficha bars, etc.) So I went to see Vicente Fernandez at the Tijuana "Feria/Palenque".

Despite my plaid shirt, mustache, and keeping my mouth shut, the two young girls on my right (They were drinking beer, but one acted like a tenth grader), offered to teach me Spanish in exchange for teaching them English - We never got to the English part. Upon finding out I was that I was alone (pity, I think), they adopted me.

YMMV. I'm young & Svelte (OK, 57 and 100 pounds overweight.) We spent the 3 hours with her shouting the lyrics in advance in my ear so I could sing along. I did spring for a second six-pac ($12.00 - ouch) to keep things going a little.

We parted friends, exchanging e-mail addresses and phone numbers. I promised them a copy of the Vicente Fernandez CD I bought when my daughter's computer is back in business.

Romance, no. But she did force me (hacia manita de puerco) to dance with her.

I am completely baffled as to how I pulled this off. I think the girls did it all.
How can I do this again with somebody their mom's age. By the way, these girls were with some guys.... Go Figure !

Answer to #39; I spoke with a Veracruzana at work and she said that to use "Tiempo" instead of "vez" is common in Veracruz, and that they don't whistle through their teeth.

Pauncho

41. " ¿ Fuiste con Otras ? "
("Have you gone with others ?")

These are the words that suggest that she is about to make an exception and let you do something without a condom. Be Ready !
A tactful answer might resemble mine; "Hoy no, en mi vida sí."
("Today, NO, in my life YES )". I didn't say anything about last week.....

42. The "Rockola" (Spanish slang for "Juke Box") When asking a girl to make selections on the jukebox, don't just give her the money. She'll just pocket some of it. YOU put all of the money in, SHE makes the selections. Got it ?

43. When you make the jukebox selections, you choose what you like to dance to. She chooses what makes her feel good. Get your priorities straight ! Let her do it. ("If mama ain't happy, nobody's happy...")

44. "Do you want to wash up first ?" This phrase preceeded an unsolicited BBBJ. Being stupid I said "No." She sucked it anyway, followed by covered missionary sex. I'll listen better next time.

45. " When you were married (before you were divorced), was it a civil marriage or a religious marriage ?" This question relates to the fact that civil marriage & religious marriage are different & separate things in Mexico. This seems to be an important question for the chicas. I just don't know which answer they want to hear. Of course in the states, if you were married in a church, the answer is "Both". Does anyone have some input on this question (and the "correct" answer) ?

46. IS SHE LYING ?; Remember, these women are EXPERTS in dealing with men. And in their presence, most of us rate as mere boys.

47. "I BET THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF BABIES IN THERE." said the chica, fondling my member. I replied "Soy hombre cortado" (I've been clipped). Later she did BBBJ & then we did bareback sex (Si, ¡ Que tonto!). Suspect that chicas prefer a vasectomized male when they are thinking about birth control (and they seem to be stupid enough to always believe me - although it's the truth), and prefer a fertile male when they are trying to get pregnant with a blue-eyed child that comes complete with child support.

48. "HOW OFTEN DO YOU COME TO TIJUANA ?", asked the chica prior to our second no-holds-barred bareback session (all positions, BBBJ, but NO anal). It seems that after the first no-questions-asked bareback session, she suddenly was having doubts about not using a condom.

When I asked her how come it didn't matter the first time, she replied that she thought that I only visited Tijuana very seldom. The second time (4 days later) she quizzed me and I told her that I had been coming to Tijuana 95% of my weekends and received periodic health checks.

She asked me if I told that to all of the girls and I told her "NO". I told her to check with her ex-roommate (a previous favorite) that I always used a condom.

It seems that frequent visitors are lumped just a notch above mexicans for likelihood of carrying diseases. But infrequent visitors from the states are considered cleaner.

Of course this is the opinion of just one chica.

49. DO YOU HAVE A NOVIA ?
While we were in bed, I told this bombshell (fichera hooker) that I really liked something about her - and it was the truth. She then asked me "Do you have a novia ?" (and then, upon hearing that we were having difficulties;) Do you help your girlfriend ? How much do you give her ?

So I told her "I promised her $100 per week but I usually give her more like $150. (I wasn't smart enough to tell her a smaller figure than the truth.)

She then told me "If you're looking for a novia, let me know." and the offered me a TLN for 60 bucks some other night.

The moral of this story; "Do you have a novia ?" is a SCREENING QUESTION. Keep your ears open for it.

50. I had already gotten my nut with Marica, but I was dancing in the bar with "N". She was bitching about lack of work so we ended up in the hotel ($20 for 30 minutes).

We just played around a bit and talked professional psychology. She admitted that she had very few repeat customers.

So I introduced her to the concepts of GFE and Keigal exercises (although she is snug. Then we got talking about the transition between fichera dancer and fichera hooker.

I said something about "One day the rent comes due and...." and she agreed. She had never planned to be a hooker, but wasn't making enough money.

Probably still isn't. She got kicked out of the club for two weeks for fighting with another girl over a customer. (I always miss the good stuff !)

Hey Pauncho, if this girl is 19 or younger, you might introduce her to Ben. That's how the vast majority of these young girls make the transition from ficha girls to full fledged ho's.

MrBill

51. THE SIGNIFICANCE OF HOLIDAYS & BIRTHDAYS:
Chicas (and I believe, Mexican culture in general) set great store by these symbols of life. Just recently I have received 3 pleasant surprises - unsolicited BBBJ followed by offers of bareback sex.

In case #1 it was one day after the chica's birthday.
In case #2 it the session following the session we had on New Year's Eve.
In case #3, it was 5 days before the chica's birthday.

Their ages ranged from 20 to 23.

52. THE SIMPLE PLEASURES:
One early (6:30 AM) morning I was walking with a (supposedly) "non-sex worker" chica, when a street couple I know tried to sell me a zizsaw puzzle for $2.50. I was about to wave them off when she said she wanted it. So I bought it. The next week her roommate (he does not approve of our friendship) gravely thanked me for it. A month later I bought a puzzle for a chica's little girl. I got to watch the chica work the puzzle.

The message; In general, Mexicans have not yet outgrown the simple pleasures: Puzzles, board games, marbles, kites, scooters. Or me, this is a beautiful thing about their culture. I think it comes about because when they were kids, their parents couldn't afford the expensive pleasures.

Hombre,

Please move this section from;

"TIJUANA:Advice/Questions/Commentary:Chica Psychology"

TO

"Off-Topic: Chica Psychology"

Thanks.

53. Now "O" is suddenly interested in how I feel about her being a whore. She said "? Es muy mal vender el cuerpo ?" (It's really bad to sell your body ?) I took this as asking me if I thought poorly of her for being a whore. I answered that other than as relates to one's religion, the bad thing is the damage done to one's personality. That one must separate the body from the heart, soul, and personality and often they can't be put back together afterwards. And to pass the balance of one's life separated from parts of one's self is really lacking.

I also mentioned that was why I always try to treat her like a person, not a provider. And that I really do love her. But that my behavior might add to her confusion as I blur the mental "barrier" she usually has for customers. We had a thought-provoking time that night. I suspect that this discussion signals the beginning of a "growth spurt" in our interactions.

It's kinda' magic. For an hour or two I completely forget that I'm an old man (57) and want to pair up with this beautiful creature. So I fuck her instead and tell her how very special she is. And she is VERY special, at least for the few moments (usualy 1.5 hours) that we have together.

This adds up to: A question such as "? Es muy mal vender el cuerpo ?" (It's really bad to sell your body ?) is an "approval seeking" question. She's worried about what YOU think of her.

This is a closeness. She doesn't care what all of Tijuana thinks of her, she screws all of Tijuana. But she cares what her friends and family think.

What does this say about how she thinks about you. Yep, you got it - friends and family.

If you don't fuck this up, you could be "in like flynn". Remember to be kind now that you are special to her.

54. SEXUAL PSYCHOLOGY OF A WORKING GIRL (or should I say
RELATIONSHIP PSYCHOLOGY OF A WARPED MONGER)

(Before the flames begin, the following reflects my observations and OPINION. Your experience [or the truth as you see it] may vary.)

It is no secret to the average monger that women engaged in prostitution do not engage themselves fully with their clients.

My personal take on all of this is that the woman MUST separate her physical and sexual self from the rest of her in order to maintain her personal psychological adjustment. She has to lie to herself and say "My sexuality and physical self are not of value, therefore I am not really harming anything important about myself by doing this." To say anything different to herself would require her to acknowledge the harm she is doing herself with every customer - to "cheapen' herself.

The rub is when some fool (I am self-described here ...) decides he wants a relationship with a working girl. Several dynamics come into play here:

Relationships normally initiate with attraction, commonality, the development
of a strong friendship, respect, love, and commitment. In a healthy
relationship, sexual interaction is about love, sharing, and passion.
The parties share their most valued selves (psychologically, physically,
and spiritually) with their partner.

In a relationship with a prostitute, she is sharing her LEAST valued part
(her body, which she has had to devalue to allow her to work in this
profession), and some rather damaged parts (her psychological and spiritual
self) with a monger who may not be in much better shape.

There is a maxim that a customer can NEVER really be a boyfriend nor even a real friend to a working girl. These exist only in separate universes.

(Opinion) Close cross-gender "friendship" relationships are not especially
common in Mexico unless they are within the bounds of filial relationships.
(Men & women are not CLOSE friends unless they are family.)

I now find myself in a "platonic friendship" (with possibilities ?) with a working girl with whom I have previously been:

Her Client, then later,

Her sort of live-in boyfriend on weekends
(during which I was helping support her).

More than a year had passed since we broke up, and have not been in contact.

In January or February of 2003, I ran into her again, and reminded her that I still owed her kids a trip to the movies (since January, 2001).

This began an interrelationship that has grown and is the subject which I now address.

We began to draw closer and we talked. I told her that:

I didn't want to be her client again.

I would enjoy being her boyfriend if she weren't working,
but that I saw her income needs as beyond my ability (She even has a car).

That I held her in high esteem, and I loved her kids, and that if she just
wanted to be friends, and spend time together (with the kids),
that I would like to do that.

The result is that we have spent about 5 Saturdays together. I meet her when she gets off work at 9:00 AM in la zona, we jump in her car and go home to scoop up the kids, and off we go: Movies, Time in the park (kites, pigeon feeding, playground), circus, and numerous meals. I return alone to la zona about 8:00 PM for my sexual activities.

I pay for everything, including her gas, but I do NOT give her money and I am NOT receiving "services".

There is one thing I am doing - paying for the next 14 months of her computer schooling (2 hours/day, 5 days/week). She had started up and then stopped due to funding.

This isn't something that she asked for. I brought the subject up without any "leadership" on her part, but she leapt at the opportunity. This is costing me a big 85 bucks a month. This is something I have wanted to do for her for a long time (even though we were apart).

I don't initiate touching (she always goes cold on me when I do anyway).
So what is happening ? We talk a lot (we never did much before). I ignore her and enjoy interacting with the kids. Every now and then she gets intensely affectionate for a brief period of time, and I bask in those moments.

The other day she let me rub her back for about 45 minutes (in front of the kids !). It was therapy for her and great pleasure for me.

I have begun to think that omitting the sexual element has really enhanced our intimacy. She now hugs me like never before. We share brief "almost kisses", and I stroke her neck a lot. I have begun to think that sex reminds her of her job, but more mundane physical and psychological intimacy hits home.

Without ever saying that we are talking about us, we talk about the cost of living in other parts of Mexico versus my soon to be expected pension, and various climates in Mexico.

I have now met some of her family (daughter's birthday party), and I feel "included".

Could it be that sex is a "negative" for working girls ? Could the path to their hearts be beaten by purposely avoiding sexual interaction ? Could "normal' sexual intimacy ever follow ? (Could I ever get her to suck and swallow and like it ? [LOL] ) Could a real-life valuable relationship result ? Am I fucking crazy ? Could I ever get through a day without remembering that she's a whore ?

In any case, I feel like I'm getting the "best part of her" (which includes her kids) without paying for it. There is a lot of "richness of feelings" going down here.

Your (non-flammable) comments and suggestions are solicited.

Seņor Pauncho

Have you met her boyfriend yet?

SP how can you say that you aren't paying for it! You take her and her kids out...pay for everything including her gas...spend more money to hang out than you would to have had sex with her for the same amount of time...spend more money than she would have spent herself to take her kids out...AND YOU THINK YOU'RE NOT PAYING FOR IT!!??

WAKE UP !!! I'm glad that you are enjoying yourself and content, but don't delude yourself into thinking that it isn't still about the money.

The only difference is you don't put the money directly in her hands and you don't get to have sex with her anymore.

If you think that is a great deal more power to you

AD, Good points. Detailed answers would be beyond the scope of this thread.

In latin countries, are the girls supposed to pay "their share" on dates or something ?

In Latin countries, they pay "their share" by putting out. If they don't, they consider their "date" to be a sucker.

Explorer,
To see the answer to your post, check
Off Topic: Relationships: Senor Pauncho Pokes a New Puta

55. WATCH THEM HOTEL KEYS !!!!
I was at a child's birthday party with my novia when it turned cold.
I went to her car to get my jacket and forgot to give her the keys back.
When she asked for them, I had to fish through several keyrings to get hers.
Unfortunately, a hotel key was the next-to-the-last key pulled out.
As we hadn't planned to go to a hotel, but were parting early,
and as she used to work as a SG, SHE KNEW what that meant.
I guess I'm in trouble now !

56. KID'S BIRTHDAYS
You better know that the chica's attach MUCH importance to these events.
You ought to know the piņata song:

In Tijuana (or at least one neighborhood in Florido), the song is more chanted than sung, starting with the ancient traditional:

"Dale, dale dale, no pierdas el tino,
por que pierdes el tino, pierdes el camino"

(Whack it, whack it whack it, don't lose your aim.
Because if you lose your aim, you lose your way)

followed by:

"Ya diste uno, ya diste dos,
ya diste tres, y su tiempo se acabo"

(Now you've whacked it once, now you whacked it twice.
Now you whacked it three times, and your time is finished)

Do NOT lack this basic social skill !! Nuff said.

Gee..... all that whacking and then finishing is something I can identify with. :-)

SP> Explorer,
SP> To see the answer to your post, check
SP> Off Topic: Relationships: Senor Pauncho
SP> Pokes a New Puta


Please, Br'er Bear, don't throw me in the briar patch!

Beware! Don't touch the tar-baby. Don't read the thread...