d'Artagnan,

Thanks for the recap. 'Nuff said.

I'm a newbie here....this is my second post ever.
(And I have not used any aliases on this site.)

But I've been reading and studying. I've followed several threads with great interest and even more amusement.

I was refered to this site by a monger I met on a site called Sexxxychat. (BTW, he seems like a great guy and is, to the best of my knowledge NOT involved in this great debate.)

I'm glad he did, but as he may not want to be associated too closely with me now after this post and some comments I made on Sexxxy, I'll leave him unnamed.

Some of you guys have an amazing inability to read between the lines.
I have read and reread and reread this argument and here are some observations:

Kid Cisco is not targeting stupid newbies. My guess is that this is quite personal and that he was once one of you "sucker newbies." In carefully examining what he says I suspect he got rather severely burned by a guide.
Whether this would involve Rich or Don, I will not venture a guess, well, not publicly.

But this is what I DO know.
Every scam that a garota can pull that can be transformed into it's internet counterpart is being worked on SexxxyRio. I've spent plenty of time there to know. I've experimented to see what different girls will try. I've been warned off by friendly mongers and I appreciate that very much.

The very man who purports to be your defender from scams is working them himself. I hear he was also the owner of riofantasy.

Rich. Just because you attempt to shoot from a high vantage point doesn't remove the flame.

You are targeting all dissent and everyone should know that you have financial interest in doing so.

There seems to be this self-serving notion that "pro-guide" is informative, while "anti-guide" is flame throwing.

Hombre, please don't change your policy.
It's been far too valuable to me as is.

eJack

Admin: Post edited by request of Ejack1

Ejack1- For a newbie , you are very perceptive with your observations about the Sexxychat and Riofantasy scams. It doesn't get any lower than them, and you are dead right on with your comments. At least a couple of people see through the bullshit. I think your off on Kidcisco though-I really don't think he ever used a guide...he just gets aggravated and has an unusual way of expressing himself. I find it quite hilarious.

Kid: Read my report again….. you know… the one you gave me high marks on and that just tied for best of July. No girl turned me down. It was a pitiful attempt to save face. Every keystroke you type only makes my point for me. You are a sad, sad man. Now go take your medicine and go to bed. I will ignore you from this point forward because you are irrelevant.

Everyone: I apologize to all sensible people. I let Cro-Magnon Man bring me down to his level and this thread got off the subject. It originally started in another report, and Hombre moved it here, but I will state again what I stated earlier so that guys new to this type of vacation, and are trying to plan a trip will get some relevant advice from this thread.

Do you need a guide in Rio?

NO! There is plenty of information on this website for you to know everything about Rio. Read Bwana_Dik’s and GCL’s guides, then print them and take them with you. Chances are you will run into a few hombres along the way and they will fill you in on the things you missed. Rio is a very survivable and navigable city and you will be fine once you get your bearings. I was walking around everywhere by myself after 2 days and never had a problem. Like any city, there are places that you should not go at night, so just use your common sense. I will say that I never had a problem at night either, and I was walking by myself and with girls from midnight to 4 AM. If you aren’t a good negotiator, stick to the Termas your first trip until you get your game together, because that way, you won’t need a translator because the prices are set.

However, if you are a true newbie, don’t have time to research, don’t speak Portuguese, don’t have the time to learn, or have any apprehension about traveling alone to a place that you have never been, you may want to consider hiring a guide for a day, or until you feel comfortable on your own. There are several available on this website with good references. Don’t let anyone intimidate you into thinking that you will be looked down upon for doing this. Don’t ever apologize or feel bad for being a newbie or not knowing everything about the game. Everyone on this board had to start new at one point too, so ignore the negative comments. The girls don’t care one way or the other who you are with. The fact is, if you look and act like a goon, you are going to look like one with or without a guide, so leave your insecurities behind and have fun. If you want to get to know a little bit about a girl, a translator is helpful. Hiring a guide usually ends up being a small expense when you consider the time you save, the knowledge you gain, and the other intangibles they provide. You can use them for a day or a week, it’s your choice. Set the agenda and tell them to take you here, here and here today. When you don’t need them, tell them to go away. The bottomline is that it is your vacation, do what you want to do, and you are going to have a very good time, guide or no guide.

Ejack, I respect anyones right to an opinion but fair is fair, and to suggest my web business are scams is far from the truth. If you are aware of me ever ever ever ripping anyone off, would love to know about it because I will immediately apologize and return their money. I am in business. A web business. It is no secret. And although it is safe for you to throw around accusations anonymously, it doesnt make it right. I am, and will continue to be, a man of my word. And I need not hide anything.

Riofantasy.com

"4x4 Sweetheart Fund" (interestingly enough, donations directed to admin@riofantasy.com)

Sexxxychat.com

Guides that charge $225 for the privilege of being introduced to their stable of garotas


It sounds like we have some international nominees for the (virtual) Pimp of the Year Awards that are held in Vegas every year.

And before you argue semantics, save it.

Esse assunto ja era.

Bomboa- I second that nomination and I would like to buy you a beer. I was beginning to think I was the only one who recognised a pimp when I saw one.

That's it Layne, no more cigars for me!

Don

I am flattered...if it were only true I would have the best job in rio. As it is, i have to resign myself to being a webmaster, husband, friend, and working stiff--and all that that implies.

Why, GCL, have you not acknowledged that riofantasy is your website? It has come up several times recently in threads that you were involved in. Has anyone ever argued that it is NOT a rip-off? But you have been completely silent on that subject.

Your credibility is in question.

Everyone on this site is anonymous, even you "GCL".

I was the first person to stand up and said "so what" when people were razzing Davidd about Kidcisco flaming him. I try to say what is right whoever is involved.

I agree with eJack. Your posts leave the impression that you are trying to stifle any criticism of tourguides. I think there is fair agreement about riofantasy, so to say that he is throwing around false accusations is off-base.

You are an intelligent guy who can argue very cleverly, and avoid addressing issues that make you look bad. But there are many intelligent people here who aren't fooled by that.

Clifton, no prob about folks not liking tourguides, but I take issue when people like KC put down others for using tourguides, thats all. I dont have any interest in the tour business other than being friends with Don and Karl. Who by the way, are good guys. Regarding my webbusiness, they are a secret to noone. I own sexxxychat.com/rio and riofantasy. Both topics are old news and are pretty much unrelated to this site and therefore I have never commented on them other than to make an anouncement when I launched on sexxxychat. Riofantasy is something I have never promoted. Not sure what to say at this time other than it is a free site with photos. at one time I had a tour page up and may add another one soon. At that time I had package prices and weekly rates which coincided with the going rate--but again, was never marketed to members of this site. I will begin to promote it in the near future--but the mere mention on here has raised my Alexa rating from 900,000 on the internet to 474,00 in one week.

I have had girls whine that they had no money to buy their mother a birthdeay present.

I have watched girls cry when nobody took them private.

I have seen girls be visibly coached as to what to say/not say to me.

I have seen girls switched mid show in an obvious attempt to deceive.

I have been offered phone numbers which I would get in private, which never came through.

I have been promised pictures that were never mailed.

I have watched girls take as long as possible undressing or chatting to work as much money as possible from me.

I have been impersonated as I came into the room in what appeared to be an attempt to discredit me or manipulate me into a private to protect my name.

I am NOT annonymous...I have used my real name in all correspondence with every girl I've written on sexxxy....several have my picture.
So you know who to come after when I arrive (This in reference to Don's suggestion of his ability to take care of things himself.)

Here's a telling point....
I mailed Sandman at about 2:45am on the 20th, asking if this was the address to sent my contribution for the 4x4 garota fund....
After no response, I wrote another on the CH messege system, at about 6:15am the 21st.....
To date, I still have received no response....
This seems telling.

My contribution is not welcome!
It's not about a little girl at all, is it?
Consider my offer recinded.

I hold to my opinion.

eJack

ejack, There must be a conspiracy. It is beginning to appear the whole world wakes up every day and tries to figure out how they can oppose you.

rich whillock 021 9452 5757

ejack,

FYI, Sandman hasn't logged into ClubHombre since August 20th, so he probably hasn't seen your IM. I have no explanation for not responding to your e-mail, except he's probably in Cuba or Rio or BA or somewhere and hasn't checked for a couple of days.

Sandman stated to me last Tuesday night, August 19th, while we were chatting after the trivia contest, that he was leaving early the next morning for about a five day trip to a certain island country, and was then heading straight to Brazil for another trip. Said island country has no internet access. By all calculations, he's probably on a plane right now for Brazil, or just arrived there today.

If I have been unfair to Sandman, I apologize to him.
I know only that he is buddies with Rich.

eJack

ejack, he is on an island with limited access. And you dont know me, so not sure how you know who my buddies are, but Sandman is my friend. And you have indeed been unfair.

Enough is enough! Pay GCL the proper respect. That fact that he's getting bitched at by a bunch of whining newbies is patently offensive. He's a businessman...period. If you have a problem, call him or instant message him....he's easy to find. In the meantime, quit your whining. You making us guys who actually have pair look bad.

Sterling

Ejack:

Thanks for your posts.

OH

I can't believe all of you are giving KidCisco of all people the joy of arguing with him. What's the big deal? We will all have our own opinions. Personally, I've always said that I can't see the big deal to hire a guide in Rio. Rio has to be the easiest place to find girls in the world. It's not as dangerous as people make it out to be. But if guys have the money, feel more comfortable and don't mind paying up to $200 US to have someone show them places that are easy to find so be it.

Kid Cisco, sometimes you make valid points but you do it in such a bad way that no one listens to you and people that even agree with your point are turned off.

One thing I'll point out that is funny is that some of you guys will criticize a guy that chooses to pay a girl more on his own free will yet you say nothing or even promote the idea of paying up to R$750 for someone to show you around to places that are well publicized all over the internet. I could care less either way. I just thought that was funny.

Sorry Ejack. Hope you got my response to your e-mail this morning. I just got back late last night from a short trip with my buddy. I'll be going back to Rio in early Sept. but will have daily access to e-mail there.

Like to jump into this subject with a couple of comments;

Regarding the Cassia fund. I would like to thank all the guys that have pledged and moreso, those that have actually made contributions to the fund.

Rich has made his PayPal account available to me and I have copied him on all the contributions I have received so far. I have also offered to send any contributors a copy of an excel spreadsheet that acknowledges their contribution. We are well over $1,500 in cash and pledges so far. This is all above board and we are an open book prepared for inspecion from any participant. Every cent is going to this little girl.

I would also like to thank Rich for taking his valuable time to help with this effort and for donating some very interesting items for the auction.

I am doing a little work on a Yahoo Groups site that we can use to auction of some very interesting items, services and other stuff to help raise money for the fund. You will have to receive my permission to join the group. If I don't know you, you may need to reference someone who does know you. Based upon some of the items being donated, we may need a little extra security. If you have made a donation, you will be approved. Yahoogroups Riotreasures. (I made a bunch of typos...sorry guys...typing isn't one of my better talents). Anyway, go to posts and you can get a feel for the kinds of things we will be auctioning. If you want to donate something, run it by me first in an offline e-mail sandman00111@yahoo.com. I'll take just about anything from individuals or groups. Who knows, maybe KidCisco will donate a day of guide services...wait a minute..I don't want to go there he he! Also, I am not going to manage the site on a daily basis. Hopefully guys with things to donate can deal with people wishing to buy. I am not about being an e-Bay.

This thread has been real funny to follow. Might be easy to summarize it as follows: Choosing whether or not to use a guide should be a personal decision. No one is going to call you or consider you a pussy if you do. Similar in nature to ones personal taste in women. What may be a 9 to you could be a 5 to me and vice versa.

I always like what my good buddies Moondog and God Father have to say about our hobby; Enjoy the Life and have fun!

Can't wait to see KC's first posted trip report. That should be an award winning entry.....

Sandman

Some guys call this a "hobby". Want to know the definition of 'hobby'? -: a pursuit outside one's regular occupation engaged in esp. for relaxation.

Some of you guys get too worked up about certain issues. This is about having fun and enjoying life. We are not curing cancer and not trying to send the Brazillians into outer space. Everyone might have an opinion on something but maybe if a message board can cause you to get that worked up you should walk away and find another hobby.

I've met some great guys over the years. I've always been one to promote the idea of guys spending money they way they want to. I personally don't see a need to hire a guide to show you around Rio but I don't begrudge others that have the money and interest in doing this.

Everyone has a right to start a business and operate it as they see fit. However, I think sometimes we all have the tendency to close our eyes and pretend like it isn't a dirty business. The fact of the matter is that although the majority are good guys that I've met, prostitution can be a dirty business and anyone associated in this business can have their names blackened. As much fun as we all have sometimes we forget this.

At the end of the day I think if you can honestly say that you aren't hurting yourself and not hurting others, you're not cheating people or trying to cheat them then you can feel good about yourself and it doesn't matter what people say.

We all have strong personalities and opinions. We can agree to disagree on things. I've met a ton of great guys over the years but when it comes down to it... out of the hundreds of guys I've met I only 100% totally trust about 3 or 4 of those guys and odds are they know who they are.

Have fun all. Like I said...if you're that worked up over this stuff it's time to move on and take up fishing or some other less stressful hobby. Good luck.

Hmmm. Brazilians in outer space. Termanauts? First spacewalk in flip-flops? Lunar module key wrapped around your wrist? Sign me up!

As usual, GF is right. Let's keep this fun or it will cease to be....fun.

That said, anyone who has traveled anywhere in the third world knows that scams, kickbacks and other separate-the-gringo-from-his-money schemes are part of the operating model. Once you assume that every business person (inc amercians) in these places has an unconventional business angle, you're (ironically) more relaxed. Hell, if Rich, Don and the guys charge $100,000 for guide services and get it, all the power to them. We all know that the apartment rental guys make big profits on rentals compared to their costs, but most of us can't deal with the hassle of getting a place direct. Should we flame them for being pimps or guys that rent for being pussies?

I'd also like to think that this group, of all people, would place the judgmental b/s abouting pimps and working girls aside. If pimps are scum, so are their customers. We're all in this together.

When you're flaming all thse things, just keep this in mind in your morning commute: If "let the buyer beware" is unethical, then most of us on board are guilty.

Ejack, our only motive is for the security of a friends daughter. My contributions will be continuos. She was one of my better friends down here and before it's suggested, no I wasn't fucking her. The people handling this fund would do the same for you. When Sandman arrives I'll be explaining my part and he's free to tell anyone inquiring. We'll be meeting her family soon.
And as always, we enjoy meeting anyone coming to Rio, yourself included.
I don't believe I referred to taking care of anything myself. There are people here that get pissed when someone kills their friends.
The only thing concerning myself will be the future of her daughter. Any flaming I find hilarious as well but we should not lose sight of what's important.

Don the B.F. P..P MF.

I'll post this here also.


A cessation of hostilities has been agreed upon by Kidcisco and I. I extended an olive branch to him yesterday and told him he could take one more free shot at me without retribution. He did and that is fine, and then he accepted my truce offer. Peace has been restored between us.

Now it is time for us all to start acting like adults and get back to discussing what we all live for.... fucking pussy!

not to worry Don..I will see you in a few weeks and we can work on your attire so you can fit the profile that has been painted here...I want you to look the part..you know a little snoop dogg and 50cents mixture...the bumping impala or caddy could be difficult for us to acquire there..

I have not posted in a very long time due to the Rio Rat situation, but at this point I feel compelled to say something.

I have been spending roughly 1/2 my time in Rio and the other 1/2 in good ole America. I've come to know the entire scene in Rio fairly well, and this thread amazes me.

I am amazed at the personal attacks that are being made to the people that are living in Rio, particularly GCL and RioTriops (Don and Karl). I can honestly say that each of these accusations are coming from people that have probably have never met these three guys. The allegations are so far in left field, that is almost impossible to respond.

Karl and Don are great guys that are trying to squeak out a living in Rio while having some fun. The picture of these guys raking in the big bucks pimping out girls and extorting money from unsuspecting gringos is so laughable. You just have to have one beer with either them to know its not true.

And why has it come to this baseless name calling? Guides are not for everyone, but there are people that want that security. I personally have never have needed a guide, but that's just me. There is a market for the services that Don and Karl provide. It is not a huge market, but it exists. All the flaming in the world will not change the fundamentals of the market. Why does this issue have to be so irrational? I just don't get it.

As far as GCL. Yes, he has a business in Rio, and he also posts on CH. My hats off to GCL. How many of you other guys out there have the guts to drop everything and start a new life and business from scratch in a foreign country in less than 12 months? Rather than attacking the guy, maybe we should all listen to him a little.

Hey EJACK. If you don't like sexxxychat, then stop going there. For some reason, I'm having a hard time feeling sorry for you. Sorry, I don't mean to be harsh, but you are dealing with your dissatisfaction in the wrong way.

And now for the conclusion. It really makes my heart sad when aspersions are cast surrounding the death of Cassia and the generosity of people on this board. Not only are these accusations baseless, but they are also mean, hateful, and in poor taste. Why? Why? Why? What good does this serve?

I was very effected by Cassia's death, although not as directly as others. Still to this day, it impacts me. The photo in the newspaper and web site were chilling. It was all anyone talked about for two straight days. So PLEASE, let's take this for what it is. A tragic circumstance, and some very decent guys trying to do the right thing. PLEASE LEAVE THIS ALONE. It is so hurtful to Cassia's memory.

I am not planning to post again, but if you are in Rio, most know where to find me. Except for the Rio Rat of course.

BT

Viajero: I know where that comment is coming from..... Day 2 of Davidd's report and I apologize if I sounded a little harsh. However, it's one thing to pay someone roughly 600R$ for tangible service, and another thing to pay 750R$ for a dupla and be so flustered about it you can't even get your dick hard. That guy was trying to make movies and all kinds of wierd stuff. I guess he thought he was Peter North or something. Anyway, re-read my post from yesterday about the guide stuff. That is about as fair an assessment as I can make on the subject.

Ejack1: For only your second ever post, you sure threw some unfair bombs. Also, your money is safe with Sandman.

Sandman: look what happens when you go away for a week.

Don: I know how to say "Eu quero beber uma cerveja" fluently now.

Yeah, but do you know how to ask for the bathroom...he he. You know you only rent the beer!

I don't think Ejack was attacking me. I just wasn't here and didn't have internet access to respond to him. The mind can be a terrible thing sometimes and conjures up all kinds of ideas.

I guess in my defense, I did leave a warning that I would be gone for 5 days and inaccessable but would respond on return.

Had a great trip and looking forward to seeing some buddies and bundas in Rio in a couple of weeks.

Sandman

Aldaron,

Nope. It wasn't directed at you. That's part of the problem with these message boards. Guys take things too personal. You have to read all these posts with a grain of salt. Guys, stop taking posts personal. Do what makes you happy. I always try to look at things objectively AND subjectively. The problem is that guys don't. Everyone thinks that their opinion is the correct one (hint hint KidCisco)and they know more than the next guy. In reality, we all are still learning and will continue to learn each day.

Read Bluestraveller's post carefully. I've met the guy and he is a good dude. Everyone has a right to do whatever they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone. Good luck all!

V: I'm not taking it personal. We are cool, but I remembered you from that thread and I apologize. I have met BT. He is the voice of reason.

Sandman: onde está o banheiro? Also... I wasn't talking about what he said to you. Go up a little further.

Don: Here I thought I hired a guide and I come home to find out you're a fucking pimp!

Oh..KC.

Just a couple of items regarding your posts (which were funny as hell BTW);

You said you were in the Navy for 15 years and you and your buddies got all the information you needed off the internet. Humm, guess that blows Al Gores claim to fame huh?

I wonder how that 18-25 year old sailor felt on his first trip to Malaysia, Korea, Japan or China where he couldn't read a sign, order from a menu or ask for directions.....or did his older more experienced buddies show him the ropes, where the whores were, how to deal with local customs, prices...and maybe buy them a few beers for their assistance; Wonder if the guides so rampantly discussed here are merely serving a civilian service to compensate for the ropes your buddies probably showed you? Come on buddy. Surely even you can reach back in those memory banks and recall how daunting those first few trips were. How uncomfortable you were not knowing the language, not being able to read a sign and know if you were in a shoe shine parlor or a shit house? Don't give this 10 million+ mile veteran any of your bullshit about landing in a foreign country for the first time. You may be a big ass SOB but you were probably quickly cut down to size (and probably taken to the cleaners more than once...comeon..how many times robbed, overpaid, ripped off, bamboozled, bought "real ivory" or "jade" or whatever). Yeah...I've been there too man. Arrive on a Friday and my contacts are not scheduled to meet me until Monday. Fucking long weekends wasting precious time and energy with my dick in my hand; walking around a city looking for action only to be handed off to the nearest local pimp with a stable of butt ugly women...but then again, Navymen never fuck ugly women do they...he he he. Neither do guys in three piece suits with expense accounts staying in 4-5 star hotels, eating at top of the line restaurants that would set a sailor back a months pay...but we all fuck the same women....!

I wonder how you would do if tomorrow you found yourself on a plane to say...Bangladesh (as I did once on 24 hours notice), where they speak 1,200 differents dialects of the language or Tibet, Cech Republic or Hainan where almost nobody speaks English. Would you look for some local help in getting around or just wing it...without buddies who knew the ropes....? Wonder if you might overpay, or waste valuable time searching for whoring places, eat in shitty restaurants or stay in fleabag hotels just because you did not know your way around and were too fucking proud to ask for help?

I have always found it very helpful to have local people with local knowledge of local customs, local places, local prices, local venues. Most places I was fortunate to have local associates to show me around....kinda like your Navy buddies probably wiped your nose a few times for you. (come on now...admit it...you didn't hit a foreign town, go straight to the closest whore house and score on 48 hour liberty all by your lonesome self...I don't buy it dude)

You need to remember buddy, not everybody on this board has had the opportunity to experience the world the way we have; You in the Navy (girl in every port syndrome...yeah, my dad was a 20 year lifer...10 years in the PI and China before he got married...wanna bet there are a couple of Sandman bro's around the world I have never met). Some of these guys have first or second stamps in their passports not additional pages added because they are full.

I wonder how that snotty nosed, brash mouthed New Yorker (all 6'4" and 235 pounds of him) managed at 21 to 25 on his first shore duty. I'll bet more than one "shit flinger" (euphamism) got the best of the young Turk!

You blow that horn somewhere else KC cause this veteran ain't buying one stinking bit of it..Just ask some of the airline guys who do millions of miles per year and can stomp on any adventures you or I might conceive of......

Eh Cat, Moondog, GF, UW, SF, Athos, KS, CR and all you other wordly hombres.....

All the best to ya bro and keep those opinions coming but don't try to out travel or bullshit a multi million mile airline traveler to a swabee who is months between a port of call... while you were in your bunk below deck strokin it, I was in the bed pokin it....

Sandman

That was good. Really good.

It was brilliant. (that's my pal) Everyone was a "newbie" at one point and there is nothing wrong with being one either.

Well Sandman sort of summed it up. (Note to self--no more reponses to angry, know-it-alls when Sandman is out of town).

I havent posted on this site in quite a while, as I havent been to Rio since Nov and ran out of stories to tell and pictures to post a while ago,and I generally dont waste my and other readers' time by posting useless opinions or attacking other posters, or other messages that dont meaningfully contribute to the general knowledge of monger/travel in Brazil. Unfortunately, there are quite a few posters here who feel otherwise.

I felt I needed to respond to all the personal attacks being heaped on GCL. I dont know anything about what he's doing with sexxxy chat or rio fantasy, since I have no personal interest in the services he offers there, but I have met him and spent some great times hanging out with him in Rio, and found him to be a generous and honest guy as well as a hell of a lot of fun to hang out with in some of the more disreputable spots of Rio. Perhaps I'm a poor judge of character, but I find it difficult to believe he's capable of the kind of scamming he's been accused of here. It seems more likely that this board has fallen prey to the same phenomena as many others do sooner or later, in which a few folks come online not to share info or to learn anything useful about the topic that is the subject of the board, but to pick fights for the thrill of it, and to show how clever they (think they) are. It's a shame, because there are a lot of guys who post here who have a lot of useful info and ideas to share which most of us could learn from, and these kinds of flame wars are just a waste of bandwidth, IMHO, although I realize some find it entertaining to observe the slugfests.

Mangoman

Mango, u and others that know me have been very kind for your comments. I hope you dont get flamed by it. In any event, dont worry about me, the lies and exaggerations posted here I do not feel are taken seriously by reasonable folks. Suggestions that we are pimps, frauds and conspirators in a scheme to collect a few thousand dollars in the name of an orphaned girl is obsurd to the point that they are laughable. I would personally be ashamed of myself for trying to bolster my points by alleging someone was stealing money from an orphan. It is a pity that others did so, and without basis. Having said that, I would encourage everyone to please keep Cassia's child in mind, and participate in the auction Sandman has put together. There will be some great items offered. Again, thanks to all.

I would like to throw my 2 cents in. While I don't know Sandman extreamly well the time i have spent with him in Rio as well as talking with him on the phone, I truly believe that he is raising the money from the heart. Nothing more nothing less. I was happy to participate and have no worries that the money will not get to benefit the child.

As for GCL. I do not know him very well, but the little time I have, he never gave me the impression he was the type of person to run a game in the name of a child and scam the good people and hearts from CH in the child's name.

Now I could be a bad judge of charater on both counts but as far as this child I believe GCL & Sandman have her best interest at heart.

I think the bad mouthing of motives about the child need to stop unless you have some real facts. I don't say don't challenge, or seek the answers you need to make you feel comfortable to contribute but outright bad mouthing should stop. Participate if you want as long as you feel comfortable.

Tibet, Czech Republic, Bangladesh? Been there. Toss in Kathmandu, Bombay, Delhi, Myanmar, and several others places where I saw things I wish I could forget.

A bit of a stretch to compare such places to COPACABANA wouldn't you say?

I liken the guides in Rio to the touts of Cartagena. Constantly hovering around, pimping girls, and overcharging Americans. Yes, I was a Brazil newbie once. But if I do my calculations, I know I didn't overpay by $225 on my first trip.

The fact of the matter is, American/European ex-pats who gain permanent visas through fraud marriages, work illegally without paying taxes, and pimp girls, all under the guise of "tour services" is a common phenomenon in Rio all the way up to Fortaleza. The Federal Police know the characters involved fairly well too.

Having said that, someone astutely mentioned that being MONGERS ourselves, we have no right to get moralistic in any way. You're absolutely right. But I have no problems calling a spade a spade. I just call it as I see it, and express my opinions.

So we all might as well end this topic at some point. Because no one is going to change anyone's mind.

Just realize that there are two sides to this issue. I'd just hate to see mob mentality take over and the guides/friends of guides jump in at every opportunity to defend their turf & livelihoods.

Sandman, Bluestraveler, Godfather has said it well. Aldaron, nice report.

Kidcrisco mathematics is also not that great. Does anyone really believe that $250 x 10 clowns = $2500/week =$120,000/yr theory? KC being the millionaire ex Navy SEAL he claims he is, haven't him heard of GROUP RATES?

-DJ

For the record, I was not suggesting that the fund was a scam. I do believe and always did, that this girl will get the money. If I had not believed that, I would never have offered in the first place.

My assertion was simply that a personal attitude directed at me had taken priority, and that I was not welcome to contribute.

There are personal reason's for my suspicion of which I'm certain GCL and a few others are aware.

I have no particular inclination to explain further. If GCL would like to explain he is free to do so.

I have apologized, and apologize again to Sandman for my assumptions.

Sandman, you'll receive my contribution soon.

eJack

I have no idea what you are talking about ejack, but if there is any sort of problem I can help you with, call me and I will try to work it out. Or email me at rich@sexxxychat.com Thanks. Rich 9452 5757

eJack,

No apologies necessary buddy and thanks for your contribution. Hope to meet up with you in Rio some day. First beer is on me.

Ciao

Bom...I used those as examples of different cultures, languages, food, surroundings and even women, as an analogy of how a lot of people might feel uncomfortable traveling to a foreign country, especially if they are not seasoned travelers in the first place.

OK....Katmandu to Copa may be at opposite ends of the compendium but so is comparing the Rio guides to the Ctg. touts. Those SOB's in Ctg. will not take no for an answer and I have never met a Rio guide that is 1/10th as bad as Tony.

You are absolutely right though. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and there are always two sides to every story. In my opinion these guys perform a useful and valuable service to people traveling to Brazil for the first time (and they even have been known to help some of us veterans as well). If that is the way they choose to earn their living, let them be the best at what they do.

We could probably start a thread with similar discussions on Lawyers, Dr.'s, salespeople, webmasters or any other profession. They are all making money from their clients/customers in exchange for their goods and services; they are not all good and many have been known to rip off or overcharge their clients/customers.

I think they call it capitalism or the profit motive. "Profit" has never been a bad word in my vocabulary.

Hope to buy you a beer someday. This could be an interesting face to face discussion.

Sandman

Why are tour guide allow to post and act as if they are Hombres? Here the Hombres write about their experiences to intertain and inform others. The tour guides sole interest wheather they are good guys or not is to forward their own agenda. Not only are they paid by the client, I am sure they are getting compensation for the ladies and termas. So they are looking out for they own interest and not anyone else!

"I am sure they are getting compensation for the ladies and termas."

Please don't use terms such as "I am sure" when you are not sure. I know you're not sure because you are wrong. The guides (speaking of the Riotrips guides) get zip from the girls (OK, they have the undying gratitude of the girls) and free admission from the termas...nothing else.

Secondly, the interests of the guides and the members of CH are not mutually exclusive. We want to have a great time, and the guides want us to have a great time, because if we do not we will not be repeat customers nor will we recommend their services to others, and those recommendations are more important in many ways than the money an individual monger might pay them.

Finally, these guides (the ones I know) can out-Hombre most of our board members. Saying more would be indiscreet, but let me also note that many of the posts by these guys are very informative--changes in policies at hotels and termas, whereabouts of various garotas, news about new mongering opportunities--and I find their posts more useful than the "I fucked 19 garotas in the ass in 5 days" reports. Maybe such posts are intended to build good will and attract customers, but so what? No harm done that I can see, and their contributions are more useful than some of the bandwidth-wasting flame wars we've seen recently.

So, if you don't need a guide and don't like the guides--in actual fact or just in theory--then don't use one. If you don't like their posts, skip over them. But--come on--let's give 'em a break.

Bwana dik - Yes I am speculating that they get a kick back from get the girls for Hombres. Why not? Who made the rule that one must post only facts on this website?

The hotel get a kick back from the taxi driver when they call them to take you to the airport! The escort agencies get a cut of the money when they call the girls to come to your hotel. So what make you think the guides don't? Just because they told you so? They must be doing it out of the kindness of their heart. You don't know the truth any more than I do. I am just making a reasonable assumption.

As for the Termas, have you seen the guides pay to get into the Termas?

And I don't care if they all have 12 inch dicks and can fuck all day and night. All I am saying is that their primary interest is making money. And it is good business to take care of their customers. I am only saying their agenda conflict with the rest of hombre who are here just for info and intertainment.

They should start a topic for tour guides where people can ask questions and arrange for services with them. But when they post here about recommendation, I know they are interest in promoting themselves and their associates. The difference is that you and I don't have any business affilation in Rio so we are unbias. At least I am. That I know for sure.

please note Blue's advice..just have ONE beer with the guy..you will understand our protective nature of him...he is our friend..plain and simple...and this is why most of us would take on even an ex navy seal in his defense.

Kojak, I dont know about other guides but Bwana is correct about Riotrips. They dont make money from girls or termas, although most termas (not all) waive their entry fee. I know these guys very well, and at one time helped them out by helping clients, so I do know. I can see why you would think that though. I would like to add that if they did make a commission from a terma I dont have a problem with it at all--especially since it doesnt cost the client any more money, but they dont.

There is also nothing wrong with guides posting on this board in my opinion, as long as they arent constantly touting their business to the point of being obnoxious about it. I also dont think their agenda is in conflict at all. They are interested in the same sorts of things mongers on this board are, and since they live in Rio can pass along valuable info.

This discussion is banal.

Rio is the last place on earth one would need a guide, especially one that walks him to Monte Carlo a few blocks away from their hotel or appt, or catches a cab and says "Cuatro por Cuatro" to the cabdriver.

This isnt Baghdad. This isn´t Tehran.

This is one of the most reported on places on Earth where the sex scene is not only completely out in the open, it is also confined to several spots

1) Help and outside
2) boites in lido area
3) termas (MC, Luomo, Solarium,4x4,65, Centaurus, Aeropuerto -- that almost covers them all)
4) Mabs, Meia and Atlantica cafe scene

there is also Vila Mimosa for those who like it sleazy and Praca Maua and if you have a car, you can pick up girls off the street etc

The sheer idea that you need a fucking GUIDE to go to ANY of these places is completely preposterous.

Furthermore, sites like THIS one exist for the purpose of making guides completely EXPENDABLE
that is what these sites are about!!! to see them turn into a big spamming center for losers who leech money out of bigger losers and can´t seem to get a real job is something that is still completely beyound my realm of comprehension.

any taxi driver will happily take you to any termas. Know why? cuz then he gets a kickback (20 reals if memory serves me correctly). of course, the cigar smoking idiots who walk around holding your hand also get the same kickback. on TOP of the preposterous sums of money you are paying them to hold your loser hand.

Needless to say if a girl sees you as one of the loser crowd following the loser guide, she immediately pegs you for a "loser".

Which you are.