CHICA PSYCHOLOGY THREAD -

We could probably start an interesting thread on chica psychology. This would be a help in everything we do with them.

More than once I've had chicas tell me that I could afford their prices, as ALL americans are rich. As one explained it to me - even the poor americans have their bathrooms and running water inside their homes . From this perspective, they are absolutely right.

And because we're rich, they feel absolutely no shame in ripping us off. They also view charity somewhat differently than we. I remember on chica taking meat out of her torta to feed stray cats while we were walking to her place.

The following has struck me profoundly - FOOD IS IMPORTANT !!
Food is an issue for many Mexicans, especially the poor (or in the case of chicas, the formerly poor) to the extent that their psychological thought process on certain subjects seems to resemble that of americans raised during the depression in the 1930's. They hoard food (I saw a post on a couple of chicas that bought an enormous amount of something on-sale, because they knew they'd use it up eventually... My parents taught me the same thing) I am constantly amazed by how fast several chicas have glommed-on to 1-Kilo bags of rice, beans, avena (oatmeal), 10-bean mix, and (holy of holies) powdered non-fat dry milk - that I have brought down with the intention of giving it to the indians in the street. I feel it is significant to note that they don't look at See's candy or flowers quite the same way. It's kinda like money stimulates their greedy minds, but beans & rice hit them at a much more basic level. The way I found this out was that I was carrying a big opaque bag of food and a chica asked me (in the room, after) what I was carrying. I showed her and told her it was my charitable work - foods for the indians. She asked what was in the little (1 Kilo) bag. I told her about the 10-bean mix. Her eyes lit up and she implored me to bring her some next time. Earlier, I couldn't find the specific indian family I was looking for & I was tired of hauling around 25-30 pounds, so I offered her the whole damn bagful. She snapped it up !

So just try it. Carry a bag of something really basic "for the indians" and she how damn curious they get....

Great idea, Sr. Pauncho! You are definitely into something here... I'm a BA in psychology, but I'm totally fucking clueless!! So, I'll probably just lurk and ask stupid questions.

MrBillO^™-

"And because we're rich, they feel absolutely no shame in ripping us off."

Bingo! You are so right! I say we leverage our shared knowledge of thier particular and peculiar psychology to our advantage - let's call it "leveling the playing field". We must admit that these gals are better capitalists than we are. Are we mice or are we men? Didn't WE perfect capitalism? I had thought so... I will simply be satisfied by getting a fair "bang" for my buck!

MrBillO^™-

Senor Pauncho,

I'm a little troubled by your statement, "And because we're rich, they feel absolutely no shame in ripping us off." With this statement, you are making a value judgement based on your view of the world, while at the same time attempting to examine the psych view of las chicas. Perhaps it is best to be clear about what you mean by "ripping us off."

At a basic level, I'd agree with most of your observations, and at least some of your conclusions. IMHO to understand las chicas, one must view the world from their point of view.

Those chicas who have some education, Monica as an example, think most like the members of this community. Thus, we have little trouble understanding them. It is those chicas who come from small towns in MX, and who have little education, or hope of 'working their way out' that seem to be the biggest mystery to the members of our community. This is true in much the same way that most of us have little understanding of inner city gang member psychology. (Different paths with similar roots)

So often I see comments about how "these girls could be set for life if they'd only save their money." But, in many cases they have neither the education nor example in life to show them this path. In a life of existence, it is a case of living in the moment, and this is the only life that many of las chicas know when they first come to the business.


StrikeEagle

I get your point about "other" assumptions, Strike Eagle.

But allow me to sound a bit presumptuous for a bit. The advantage of having an education, or coming from a more developed nation, is not that it supplants one set of assumptions with another (at least, it shouldn't, as long as it's a real education). Rather, it's that it makes A VARIETY of DIFFERENT sets of assumptions possible. Rather than only having A, and then "getting wise" to A and replacing it with B, an educated person starts with A and then can PICK AND CHOOSE on a case-by-case basis between A and B.

At least, that's the theory, of broadening your horizons. That's why we rich gringos send our daughters off on study-abroad programs, and why majoring in Art History is allowed even in this capitalist culture. It isn't just because "it's pretty and we should work to keep it," or because "there are good jobs in museums." It's because the METAPHOR of art stretches your mind.

So, umm, now that I've gotten that off my soapbox, I think there's an interesting point to make about chicas who haven't had the opportunity to broaden their horizons. Sure, they don't have the example of a "save for the future" type of attitude, so don't understand that their current standard of living need not be hand-to-mouth even if at a high standard. Sure. We're talking about the same thing.

But that doesn't mean that a gringo monger can't UNDERSTAND her. It only takes an act of stretching the imagination, to get into the mind-set (as you have done) of that chica, to figure out her one "A" set of assumptions, and understand how they're different from your own "B" set. The fascinating thing, for me, is to see a LESS aware gringo head off to Mexico and demonstrate his own lack of broadened horizons, by assuming that EVERYONE ought to be "B" just like him.

If you follow my drift.

So, I agree with you that it's in their upbringing, and it's an issue of assumptions. Where I differ, is in the notion that one replaces the other; I'd rather say, that people of distinction such as yourself (heh) have demonstrated quite clearly the capacity to understand the benefits of both.

This is all too theoretical. It's late. Good night.

Book Guy,

I agree with you that most of us are able to view the world from different points of view. However, I tend to find that many guys don't do so. Or, perhaps I should say that they do not naturally do so.

It takes a focused effort to be mindful of these differences when dealing with people who are different from us. IMHO it is natural for humans to deal with the world as if everyone is the same as they are. This goes for Everyone. Bar Girls are even guiltier of this than we are, but as you stated so well, this is a result of their lack of 'broadened horizons'.

My point in bringing all of this up is to remind the members of our little community that chicas and bar girls come to the table with VERY different upbringings and histories than does the 'average' hobbyist. If we keep that in mind, I believe that we will be more successful in understanding them. And, I agree with Senor Pauncho that understanding las chicas, and bar girls in general, is a benefit to us as 'consumers'.


StrikeEagle

Which one of you guys 'broadened' their horizons, talking them into buying yahoo and lucent a few years ago?

I'd love to be their financial advisor. & it wouldn't cost them a single peso (I'd take it out in trade)

and about "And because we're rich, they feel absolutely no shame in ripping us off." refers to some particular experiences I've had, and also the general whining along the line of "I'm short on my rent", "It was my birthday yesterday" etc. and other lies designed to extract extra money. I don't hate them. I am grateful, but just a little tired of their whining (Marta G. & Marta H., are you listening ?)

I find each chica extremely honest/dishonest, friendly/distant, etc., in the most confusing way.

And yes, I do wish I could get it for free....

I have found that chicas in the ZN generally have zero qualms about lying to gringos. They seem to do it, even when there is no gain in doing so.

I have yet to meet a puta that wasn't a chronic liar. Even a gal that was just an amiga, who I'd never even lapdanced or otherwise propositioned, lied to me. Sheesh...

MrBillO^™--- ~ I got more pussy than a Tampax... ~

On the subject of lying, have any of you thought that las chicas do NOT want us to really know them. So, they lie to keep us at arms length.

I'm pretty sure that this is at least sometimes the case. Though, I'm sure that there are a million other reasons for this behavior, as well.


StrikeEagle

In my limited experience, I have found that the girls lying is definitely a defense mechanism.
They are , for the most part, ashamed of the life they lead. If you happen to get close enough to them to visit them at their home, they ask you not to look too closely (at a mess, or at the quality of their furnishings) first before going in.
In as far as money extraction methods, it's a means of survival. You see, no one is handing out cash for being good looking, much less alive.
Some people have had bad experiences where they suffer a loss to a working girl, this is (IMHO) the exception and not the rule. I know some girls that would never take a thing that does not belong to them. Some even leave their purses with me while they do a table dance or vip, they are too trusting in my opinion.

It's a funny mix, to us Gringos, the flip-flops from too-trusting to carefully underhanded and manipulating. Sometimes we see it, sometimes we don't. It's not like the women most of us married north of the border are remarkable examples of honesty and lack of self-interest ... but the interesting thing, is how it isn't half as perplexing to deal with a woman from your own culture. I guess it's just because she and you share assumptions about how a person "should" behave. Bi-polar disorder, I swear every provider I've ever met suffers from bi-polar disorder.

Hmm. Hysteria too ... the histrionic personality. Oh, wait, and Narcissism. Let's see (gets down DSM-IV) ... umm, no, not necessarily sociopathic, but it's possible; umm, obsessive-compulsive? Not usually ... umm ...

heh

Getting inside of a chica's head is a scary thing to do. I've tried it a few times. Most have their story so etched in stone that you never can tell if it's the truth or not. If you can ever get a conversation with a new girl or a hottie, you'll hear their story change faster than a congressman's.

A few are such pros that their story adjusts to you faster than you can figure it out. Just try to guide Tanya on a conversation some time. Sure she'll talk your ear off for an hour. But when your through, she knows a lot about you and you're still scratching your head about the whole thing. Boys, we're way our of our league if we think we can psycho-analyze that!

A few Moms are the most sincere. Betty AB comes to mind. She makes no bones or apologies about her job. She's there eight hours a day for her kids (she'll show the pictures if you ask). She seems amazingly level headed and astute. That's really admirable if you think about it.

There's one girl who I've spent quite a bit of time with. She's whacked! If she wasn't so great in the sack, she'd have scared me off a long time ago. I've known druggies of every type and she's not one of them. She just seems to have absolutely no rhyme or reason to her. Eventually I think she'll end up like Titzilla.

Bookguys got it right, girls everywhere lie. I wouldn't restrict it to the zona. But the worst is listening to a lie when the truth will do just as good.

The two AB gals that I've gotten to know well started their working careers at regular jobs (so they tell me) and turned to prostitution when they realized how much better the money is and how hard they needed to work at regular jobs just to pay the rent. In other words, I think that they might be unusal in that they did not immediately get pregnant, look to a man to pay the rent, and then started hooking when the guy split.

With that background they look at their current jobs as "it's a business". I've heard that several time from one of them. Well like any businesspersons they'll charge the highest price they can get for their services. I don't call that "ripping off".

Most of the lying I've experienced is based upon an effort to retain anonymity while at the same time developing a friendship (regular customer). Conflicting requirements. I've known one for four years and consequently the truth about her life, but at first there were many cover stories. I remember the first time she showed me her passport and real name, she treated showing me as such a privilege.

The other gal I've known for a year, there's still cover stories, but they're unravelling.

Anyway, the ones I know well enough to comment on their psychology look at their job as a service business where they charge what the market will bear. The lying is done to strangers and decreases as they get to know and trust you. I really don't think either one of them feel ashamed in any way for what they do - "ay, it's a business, what you mean you no want to pay"

They are like peeling the skins off of an onion.

They more time you spend doing it, the more layers you will uncover. It is not always that they are lying to you, just selectively volunteering information.

For example, my girl never actually lied to me about anything. But, in time, I learned that she gave very superficial answers to my questions and that she rarely gave answers that included the whole story.

Here is an example:
My question:
Why aren't you married or have a boyfriend to support you?

Her answer (after knowing her for 1 month):
I don't need a man to support me. I have never been married, and have no boyfriend.

Her answer (after knowing her for 1 year):
She has never been married, but had a child with a married man. He never got a promised divorce from his wife, and expected to keep her on the side as his mistress. She still loves him because of what they once had together and he will always be the father of her baby girl. He doesn't give her child support at all but offered to take care of both her and his own family on his minimal paycheck. She opted to continue earning her money as a chica to support her family herself.

I really don't care about chicas lying per se. I know they all do it and they have multiple layers of good reasons to do it. I usually don't take it personally - I'm not that gullible. The only thing that really pisses me off is a rip-off or being stood-up.

By rip-off, I mean e.g. a TLN that becomes 2 hrs and eventually 30 minutes. This only happened once, but it really pissed me off. And before you say it, I was a complete gentleman and spent half my time trying to pleasure HER.

And last time down, I got stood-up and lied to in the process twice - by a girl who I thought was an amiga. It was over a hotel date which as HER IDEA. Hmmmmph!

So, I don't care what BS they give me - just give me a square deal, please!

MrBillO^™--- ~ It is not her age, her beauty or her mind that I'm afrid of. It is her heart... ~

Amen to that! Square deal or no deal. I agree.

I have some comments. Here's a "theory" of why guys aren't very good at understanding women's behavior, and just one way to describe it. I don't mean to claim that I know more about women, but I've had this insight before, and it's coming to me again, so I want to share it. Although it doesn't actually help me to predict female behavior or direct it in such a way as to be beneficial to me, it does help me to realize why I just cannot figure out what the FUCK they were trying to do when they did that totally self-defeating thing they just did. Heh. Here goes, grand generalizations follow:

The few times I've ever "figured out" what a woman was thinking, whether a provider or a civilian, the actual result of my investigations didn't lead so much to an answer to the question, "What did she plan to do?" or "Why did she do that?" Rather, it was much more along the lines of, "What frame of mind was she in when she ended up feeling like she had to behave that way?" I can't really prove it, but I do have a visceral gut feeling that women aren't "tactical" like men. Discovering their motivations, is less about discovering the cause-and-effect relationships between what they wanted to accomplish and what they undertook in order to accomplish that; rather, it's more about discovering the relationships between how they were feeling and what actions that occasioned.

I don't mean to claim that this makes it all make sense, but I've seen so many examples that I just have to fling a few into the fray here. On "The Mind of the Married Man" on HBO, the wife lends a bit of insight into her own behavior when she's talking with her best female friend. She says, "Sometimes I just get into this zone where no matter how nice he's being I feel like I have to deny him things. Horrible isn't it?" When you're trying to date a civilian, I've often heard that if she says "no" to sex at 7 pm, if you give her a back-rub and play some woo-woo music, she'll be so desperate for sex by 9 that not asking her for it will be considered a rude affront to her desirability. Even failing that, if you point out to her that she said "no" and you wanted to respect that, she'll not feel like she's being made to take her own medicine; rather, she'll explain that "you just don't understand women" and believe that HER behavior should be exonerated from the couple's failure to have sex ... it's the guy's responsibility to be the tactical and effective one.

There are a million other examples, and I don't mean to say that some chicas aren't, on certain occasion, very very tactical in their thinking. But basically, that's a "mood" that the particular chica got in. Men who are tactical, know that the more you back down from being in plan-for-success mode, the less success you get; women choose plan mode, and then don't-plan mode, and then ... oh, I dunno ... eat-grapes mode, or something. All of this suggests to me, that they can't really explain themselves, as much as watch themselves and be stunned at the results. "Sometimes I just get into this zone where ... I have to ...". Awful way to exist, if you're a male trying to get something done. Perfectly normal way to exist, if you're a female who doesn't think so much about horizontal cause and effect, as about veritcal associations.

Now, all that having been said, it's just a generalization. There will be men and women who blur the lines between these behaviors, there will be occasions when women are completely tactical (although, as I've suggested, that's just a passing mood), and there will be occasions when guys are blithely associative and pointless. Of course. We're generalizing here. But if you keep that "mood" thing in mind, sometimes it helps a great deal. I find that if I have a woman I want to date, and I stop thinking in terms of "pleasing" her by doing things she has said she wants me to do, or which society suggests I'm supposed to do because she's supposed to want it, and instead I just focus on her mood and how to gently stroke and nurture it, and nothing else, she ends up liking me more than if I had shown up with candy and flowers and opened all the restaurant's doors for her. She feels less like I'm trying to manipulate her by means of "obvious gestures" that are strictly geared toward forward motion, and instead that she's just "riding the wave of feeling." Which I personally think is a crappy, self-indulgent way to treat another human -- "mister, you are responsible for my responses, my arousal, my well-being, my sense of oneness with the universe and if you don't come through for me then I certainly won't be taking responsibility for my own bizarre irrational behavior -- you must make me feel like I WANT to be rational" -- but then, whaddayagonnado? Fix women? Hahahahaha ...

As far as this applies to chicas who work at Adelita's, I don't know. I think to some extent the reason men like providers is because the providers are MORE tactical and rational than the women we have to interact with on a day-to-day basis. They know that pushing this button causes mister happy to squirt cum, and that causes Mister Bill to pay money, and everybody's happy. They know that it doesn't make sense for them to start the interaction with an assumption that their CURRENT mood (a mood arising from the events of the day, what's on the TV, who just insulted them across the room, etc. etc.) has any bearing on the guy whose lap they're sitting on, because then they're expecting him to take responsibility for the behaviors and actions of a whole host of things other than what he has control over. So they "start over" with a guy. Would that most of our wives could have the good sense to do that, rather than just lashing out when negative things from elsewhere in the universe happen to hit them ... and would that they didn't somehow deep down assume that the husband was at fault for having created a universe with the potential in it for negative things to happen to them. So, as far as understanding what the putas are going to do next, I think this generalization is actually counter-productive. The distinction between a provider and a civilian, is that with the provider she's SUPPOSED to be tactical, while the civilian will take that as a slight to her femininity and choose instead to be as opposite to tactical as possible.

Of course, I'm a drip with women. I tend to never end up with the civilians I want to date (why do you think I see providers?) so who the hell am I to offer advice on dating? I dunno. But all this just seems "right" about women. I think I've analyzed it pretty well. The question is whether or not you can get it to work in the regular interactions you have with people. And in that realm, I'm useless so far, quite useless.

Well, I'm willing to modify or abandon this generalization in any ways necessary. It's really a simple concept, but because it takes a long time to explain, I decided to use some examples and make a whole discussion of it. Maybe it belongs in the "dating a US chica" thread, maybe in this "chica psychology" thread. They're all quite closely related. Comments? Thoughts?

To sum up: men OBJECTIVE, women SUBJECTIVE.
Men think rationally, logically, have an objective, determine the means to get it. One mood, all the time.
Women "think" emotionally. They themselves don't know what they want a lot of the time, so how is a man to figure it out. But they do have have feelings that can change like the wind. One time, one mood...another time, another mood....even a second later!

book_guy wrote:

"But if you keep that "mood" thing in mind, sometimes it helps a great deal. I find that if I have a woman I want to date, and I stop thinking in terms of "pleasing" her by doing things she has said she wants me to do, or which society suggests I'm supposed to do because she's supposed to want it, and instead I just focus on her mood and how to gently stroke and nurture it, and nothing else, she ends up liking me more than if I had shown up with candy and flowers and opened all the restaurant's doors for her."


This is an astute observation, and one I can relate to. However... taking this approach can get you into a vicious rut if you aren't careful. My experience is that women like guys who do this, but only in a friendly, nice-guy way. You'll have more female friends than you can count, and there's nothing wrong with that, but when it comes to lovers and/or sex partners... Well, let's just say that I've fallen into that trap countless times. That leads right into that "what do women really want" topic that was discussed not too long ago.

Of course, with professional providers, there's a different set of dynamics involved. Which, we all know, is why many of us flock to them.

Bookguy... you sure your name isn't John Gray? That was a thought-provoking post, which answered few questions but raised many. Women... can't figure 'em out, but we love 'em anyhow...

The Chica thing about selectively telling the truth is NOT limited to providers.

It's a very Latina thing, in my experience.

"John Gray" ?? Is that the author of "Scoresmanship" ????

If so, My copy got away from me when I got married the second and last time in 1981 (Didn't think I'd need it - It lasted one miserable year). I would give a reasonable amount of money for a copy now....

BG -

"if you're a female who doesn't think so much about horizontal cause and effect, as about veritcal associations."

That's almost poetic - well done...

"I find that if I have a woman I want to date, and I stop thinking in terms of "pleasing" her by doing things she has said she wants me to do, or which society suggests I'm supposed to do because she's supposed to want it, and instead I just focus on her mood and how to gently stroke and nurture it, and nothing else, she ends up liking me more than if I had shown up with candy and flowers and opened all the restaurant's doors for her."

My best friend is a lady's-man-from-hell, and he's ALWAYS telling me pretty much the exact same thing. He also always tell me to "persue a woman as if you weren't interested in her at all" - I cannot figure that one out...

So they "start over" with a guy

Yes, and that's why we love them. I had one of the best experiences with a pro recently - when I "met" her, she was angry with the mesero and seemed pretty pissed, and I was just thinking, "Oh, no..." But then she turned to me and smiled and proceeded to GFE my world. God bless em'

MrBillO^™--- ~ I got more pussy than a Tampax... ~

Are we trying to decode the impossible? First off, trying to figure out women? And then on top of that, Mexican women. And then on top of that, "working" Mexican women. I don't know about the rest of you, but I have a hard enough time just trying to figure out plain U.S. women.

Uh, Pollo. So, how do you explain the guys who get emotionally involved with a chica? We know that this happens based on the writings of several members of this community.


StrikeEagle

Recently I've befriended a club chica. And I use "friend" loosely as it may only be one-way, from my perspective of course. She seems happy to see me, but don't all chicas view perspective/repeat clients in this fashion? And she actually showed up for a rendeavous on a day she wasn't working. But of course she doesn't show up by herself. She brings daughter and friend in tow. She asked me later if it was okay that they came along. I didn't really care since, I hadn't planned to put her in a mulcher or anything. So, I basically can come to three conclusions. The first, she views me as a recripocal "friend" and shows me a part of her private life (daughter). The second, she views me as just an oversize wallet. The kind that you don't put in your purse or back pocket, but the kind that will just conveniently follow you around where ever you go, except the ladies room ofcourse, dispensing money whenever money is required. And the third, just a regular customer that she can get freebies from now and again. Comments welcomed?

Farsider: regarding getting stuck in the rut of "just friends." Yes, that's a genuine risk ... but in my experience, the way to get into that rut faster than any other procedure, is to simply be the "typical" date, by always doing everything prescribed by society but NOT looking at her moods. The way to short-circuit that training of hers (to withhold sexuality in exchange for lots of lobster dinners, naturally) is to pay attention to her moods. At least, in theory.

So, ironically, I was offering that "insight" as a method of getting laid more and getting just-friend-treatment LESS. You're suggesting otherwise? I do think that somewhere in the mix is one other variable, independent of whether you are a mood-watcher or not. That other variable, is how and when you time your "move" (and whether you make it at all!). Actually, come to think of it, that's not independent of mood-watching at all. That's intrinsically related! Ya gotta time your move for WHEN SHE'S IN THE MOOD.

Honestly, I don't know which is which any more. I do know, that this MUST be a case of the blind leading the blind -- men who regularly pay whores for sex, now trying to explain to one another the best way to get sex and/or a relationship without simply paying for it.

Oh the shame, oh the confusion ...

Knickher,

It's hard to say where you are, at this point. Much can be gleaned by what you did while you were all together. Was it a shopping spree, with you paying all the time? Or, was in a day of frugal shopping for things that she really needed? (these are 'mobile wallet' qualifying questions)

As for "reciprocal friends".....well, I'd say that it's WAY too early for that. It could be that she was 'checking you out' for that kind of thing. But, I'd suggest that this is a status, which is NOT easily or quickly attained with una chica. How you responded to her daughter, and how her daughter responded to you, MIGHT be something that means something to her. Though, it may not mean a thing to her.

As the beginning of this thread suggests, it's tough to know what she is thinking.


StrikeEagle

Resist the temptation to over-intellectualize 'human' psychology. Humans are animals. You'll do better to study the behavior of insects, fish, reptiles, and mammals, when it comes to dating. Primates? No, to close to human to get an acurate 'read.'

My buddy recently called a 'animal behaviorist,' a sort of 'pet psychologist.' My friend explained some of his own 'symptoms' as those belonging to 'his dog.' When my buddy applied the psychologists very simple treatment to himself, he had wonderous results with his dating modality.

I'll explain more, later.

StrikeEagle,

Thanks for your insight. It was basically dinner and movies to follow. Weren't allowed admission to the movies since it was Rated "R" but she did make suggestions on other things that we could do. Again, whether she really wanted to spend more time with me or she wanted the free ride to continue is anyones guess. But my spanish is limited and I felt like I was under the microscope so I didn't speak much. Her daughter is pure joy though. It's amazing how innocent children are. I'd keep in touch with her just to see her daughter.

KnickHer

Anyone heard from RickFeliz? This thread is right up his ally.

You rang Sir?

The most common psychological testing done in the USA is the MBTI (Myers-Briggs Type Indicator). It's been taken by millions of people. And the biggest difference between males and females is how they make decisions. 70% of MALES make decisions based on what they're THINKING with 30% making decisions based on what they're feeling. The reverse is true for FEMALES with 70% making decisions based on what they're FEELING. This is well documented. It's not PC, just the facts.

So if you want her to do something the odds are 70-30 in your favor if you focus on getting her "in the mood" so she FEELS like doing it.

It appears to me that a lot of the confusion comes about when we thinking guys try to understand rationally why females do what they do. She most likely does it because she "feels" like it. I "think" we'd be better off focusing not on what she does but on what she's feeling.

An experiment for getting better at this you might find interesting is "body modeling".
If you see a woman and are curious what she's feeling, discreetly place your body in the same posture and notice what you feel. A warning is in order, though. If you get reasonably good at this, your view of "what's happening" in la zona will probably change.

Regards,
RickFeliz

"But allow me to sound a bit presumptuous for a bit. The advantage of having an education, or coming from a more developed nation, is not that it supplants one set of assumptions with another (at least, it shouldn't, as long as it's a real education). Rather, it's that it makes A VARIETY of DIFFERENT sets of assumptions possible. Rather than only having A, and then "getting wise" to A and replacing it with B, an educated person starts with A and then can PICK AND CHOOSE on a case-by-case basis between A and B."

This is quite is ways back up in the thread (and attributable to Book Guy, FWIW) but I did want to comment briefly.

What occurs to me when reading this paragraph are two thoughts that may be only tangentially related to the thread as a whole, but nevertheless worth stating explicitly.

First off, there are many "advantages" to an education, only one of which is captured in the opening quote. I would propose that the most common advantage, or at least the one most pupils have in mind, is the potential for larger paychecks during their productive years. No more, no less. The philosophical advantage posited by book guy is a real one, and may develop to some extent whether or not the pupil is searching for it, but certainly in order to maximize such an ability one needs to be actively working to develop and hone such a trait. (The true advantage of a liberal arts education, in my oh-so-biased opinion. Go Lord Jeffs!)

Secondly, I believe it is worth keeping in mind that the more sophisticated, educated, cultured, etc. (add your favorite synomym), a person becomes, often the more difficult it is for them to see and admit that their final opinions are STILL greatly biased by their individual background and experience, no matter how many points of view they are able to absorb. Graduation to an entire other level of actualization is dependent I believe on keeping that fact in mind, no matter what level of smarts and worldliness one has achieved.

Wow! This is almost half as long as a Book Guy post. (No flames intended, books.)

Yes, a 'free your ass(head) and your mind(soul) will follow ...freaky Zen-like not-thinking, Animal Totem shape-shifting, Universal fabric influencing, Extraterrestrial Transcention. ShyGuy, you are so ...on it! Where did you find out about 'un-being?'

Hare Khrishna, Spock! On to the dating section where we can really help. "Try not to think, you'll fuck everything up."

Shy guy: regarding education and paychecks ... I see what you mean. I don't call that an "education," I call that training, even if it happens at MIT. I wish I HAD some of that training, poor but enlightened by the liberal arts as I am ...

"I don't call that an "education," I call that training"

Fair enough. When I wrote of education, I of course was writing about "schooling", which I think is a common synonym for education, but obviously not in the way you meant it.

Don't forget about body language and such. There's lots of info out there about body language and what it means. Things like playing with your hair, your posture, which way your eyes are looking when you say something, etc. RickFeliz's point about "body modeling" is a good one, too.

MrBillO^™--- ~ I got more pussy than a Tampax... ~

A younger man told me of his use of non-sexual massage and American Indian magic to 'heal' a psychologically damaged chica that he cared for. I was interested in his approach to her problems. I am very aware of massage being used in the 'healing process' that is applied to battered women. Most often, accupressure, chakhra balancing, and other Eastern practices are used to help people recover from traumatic experiences. His use of stones, chants, mixtures of plant matter and oils facinated me. The ritual ceremonies he practiced on her behalf involved the smoking of halucinagenic plants imported from very near her home state.

I asked him what he did. This is what he told me: "I used a variety of fast growing Quartz stones, in addition to Amber and Hematite stones in the oil I used on her. It was scented Geranium and Lavender. I asked the local shaman to bless the oil, the stones, myself and my task." He also mentioned that he was attempting to 'open a corridor of power' that reached from her homeland to the Southwestern California desert. "I was using an 'animal magician' that I know. We were attempting to create a flow of consciousness that would carry her spirit up the corridor that we had created for her." I asked more about the smoking of 'magical' plants. "I got some Salvia Divinorum from one of the magic stores in TJ. It's legal in the States. I smoked it, in order to get in touch with the local spirits. The shit works in a big way. I was able to see the whole event unfold before it actually happened. I'm blown away by the magic involved. It was like nothing I've every even heard of before. The native people of the Amazon river basin have this trip they go through. What I was doing was pretty much the same. Except, I was using the 'local crew. I was trying to create an alternative reality that would become reality, or something like that. I guess you could call the whole thing a manifestation of what I was wishing would happen in her life. At first I felt intrusive. Then, after the local spirits pulled my ass off the desert floor and dragged me around their place, I knew it was all just fine." I asked if his results were favorable. "Well, there was some opposition that was working through some of the 'skin' I had hi-jacked into helping me, it's to be expected, when you're working a form of 'white magic,' but, hell, she bolted up out of her troubles, bit me in the ass and took off like a fucking bird."

I'm not sure if this fits here, but it's a story I thought you might be interested in. I'm looking more into the magic he used. Maybe it can help me with some of my troubled friends.

Discussion Post- Lines to use in the alley

I have, on occasion, enjoyed walking down the sidewalk and having the chicas grab my arm & try to give me the soft sell. I used various stories to decline:

"I just got some, and I'm an old man who can't do it twice the same day."
(They wheedle you extensively with "Si, puedes" or "Puedo ayudar te")

"Acabo de terminar (de coger)" ("I just finished (fucking)") (similar responses)

"Ya gaste' mi dinero" ( I've already blown my money)(They drop you like a hot rock)

Chica Psychology (from a bum...)
My previous observations about Chicas and food were reinforced Saturday night, when a particularly pathetic bum hit me up for money. Usually I tell them to piss off, but this guy - well, I don't know.... I gave him 5 or ten pesos, then, on second thought, I asked him if he wanted an orange. He accepted the money, but he accepted the orange with obvious gratitude, such much that I took notice of it. I think it was another case of "Depression Era" thinking that I have discussed earlier. I suspect that chicas from poor families didn't get a lot of fruit to eat when they were little, and that FRUIT IS A LUXURY at some gut level to them.

I wonder how she would feel if I offered her a banana ?

How do they think ? In my recent experiences with "L" (See post under "A Fool and His Money Are Soon Parted"), I find my self reflecting on the odd attitude some mexican females have towards prostitution.

It seems not uncommon for a chica (about 30) to have several jobs - cleaning house, babysitting, etc. - all year long, just being a "regular" housewife type. But when a contingency appears - kid in hospital, Christmas is coming, etc., they walk down to the zone just as if they were stopping by the store to pickup a loaf of bread.

I don't understand why a woman who sells her ass part-time, (a month or two each year, 3 hours per day) wouldn't do it full time for the financial rewards thereof. Does this attitude of "Well, I can always sell some ass." permeate many levels of mexican society, or just the poor ?

Am I way off base ? (West Fargo - what do you think ?)

My new (also previous from a year ago) favorita and I agreed to meet at "El Fracaso" (The "flop") bar last Monday night.

She made sure to introduce me to her amiga - I take this as a message that anything I do there will be reported back to her (Sorry, Darina !)

They do maintain a grapevine.....

The green-eyed monster; JEALOUSY (& possesiveness).
The word in spanish is celosa.

My amor (this week's love interest) gets ticked when I rub other chicas' back and/or suck their tits, but doesn't understand why it upsets me to watch her rub her tits all over some customer.

Her response; "But I love only you !"

What I want to know is; How to convert this energy of hers into my advantage.
She (obstensibly) doesn't sell her ass and I'm not yet into her pants.

I don't want to put her in misery, but I would love for her to get jealous enough to fuck me. (OK, & suck me, too)

Does anyone have any advice on using a chica's jealousy to manipulate her ?

Chica Telegraph - The Gossip Connection

Now that Ive met my lady friend's family, I've discovered that I already knew a couple of them by sight (2 of the nieces). It's kinda' like there are spies everywhere.

The other night I poked my head into a bar near my hotel (on the edge of the zona), didn't see anything I liked, and turned to leave. A chica near the door stopped me and said "Don't you remember me ?"

Turns out she used to work at the same club as my lady friend and had considered us an item way before I even considered it.

So just how comprehensive is this chica gossip network. Although I've sworn off "zona magic" for the time being, I wonder if it will always be impossible to visit there without her hearing about it quite rapidly.

Comments anyone ?

Pauncho

Respect for "amor".

While walking near the alley, several previous providers approached me (in turn) with big smiles, only to lose them when I told them:

x I had met someone I thought was "special"

x It was still new, but out of respect for my lady
x and our posible future, I was giving up paid
x sex to see how it worked out.

x I felt that amor was more important than sex in this life.

Amazingly, each of them looked at me funny, then agreed,
apparently respecting my decision.

I think in some way I gained their respect for saying it.....

Pauncho

Sr P
You say:

"What I want to know is; How to convert this energy of hers into my advantage.
She (obstensibly) doesn't sell her ass and I'm not yet into her pants."

I know it sounds crude, bro. But you need a test. Visit her early in the day. Get a good description of her in your head. Meet a bud who's never met her tell him to go in, get a dance from and offer her $60.

That way, you'll be sure of what you have.

Bad advise.If you have to test her, you're insecure, either trust her or don't. Also, trying to use her jealousy to your advantage is a lowlife thing to do. If you need or want to manipulate her, in my book you are scum.

I was about to have a young, handsome co-worker (raised in Soler, Tijuana) do exactly that ($100), but it proved unnecessary.

Later I will post under "trip reports - a fool & his money are soon parted" as to what happened.

Dear Senorpanocha,

My level of distrust comes from my numerous bad experiences in La Zona.

It would not be so hot if she did thusly, but not with me.