"RELEVANCE?? We don't need no steenkin' RELEVANCE!"

Good one Erip.

One of my favorite lines from a movie.

Oh I forgot. We could also show the judge some "Little Beaver".

I agree with erip that things are pretty screwed up when we believe Kobe is guilty or not guilty based on wether we like him, or like the lakers.

And its even screwier when our position is based on race. I don't know if he is guilty or not. Maybe I am one of the only guys in North America who does not care. But I can draw three conclusions from this circus.

1. There is too much celebrity worship in the US. They are just people. Extremely good at what they do, but still just people.

2. Race relations have not improved much over the last 20 years. In fact, they may be worse. And IMHO its not the pointy headed sheet wearers and the neocons that have impeded progress.

3. The country need to get a life. Its a damn shame when bullshit celebrity stuff like this generates more public interest and comment than the major issues.

Batster

Just got around to reading this board.
Anyone who acts like a hot dog (e.g. OJ, Magic), (and don't tell me about magic's generosity evidenced by his setting records with his assists, he only did that because he found another way to glory{Jerry West tried to change Magic's greedy behavior with the ball}), or who acts like a pompous asshole like Kobe, has psychological behavioral problems, and they are more prone to get into trouble and more easily commit these types of crimes.
Leave it to the flock to praise these idiots.
I have a very different philosophy of guilt, but if you ask me if I think Kobe's guilty under society's version, I say more than likely.

I agree with Batster1 completely.

Kobe is obviously not guilty.




GO LAKERS!

About the Kobe case ...
If I were Kobe's defense lawyer all I really need to do is look to this play-for-pay bulletin board for direction.
Look at the 19yr old accuser's bank records. When was the last time she used her ATM machine (or walk-in less cash deposit teller transaction)?
ATMs only dispense 20 dollar bills.
If the young gal, on the night of the incident, was found with 100 dollar bills on her person, it's obvious she got them from Kobe.
Kobe is innocent (a deal is a deal)!
If the 19yr old had only a mixture of 1's, 5's, 10's and maybe a 20 ... and that totaled less than say 50 dollars, then Kobe didn't pay her.
He deserves to go to jail, the cheap bastard!
And if the Eagle County Sheriff's Dept doesn't know the contents of her purse, then they're incompetent!
Forget the DNA, look at the purse!
Maybe?

Is it proper etiquette to answer your own post?
Perhaps Kobe's best defense is to exploit the delay of the 19yr old accuser to file a police report.
If the bellhop took her home on the night of the incident instead of to the police station the explanation could go as follows ...
Kobe gave the gal many 100 dollar bills as payment for a night of mutual pleasure.
The accuser knew she couldn't be allowed to be driven directly to a police station by the bellhop lest the cops rifle her purse and discover the Franklins in her purse.
The young lass went home, sanitized her purse by removing the C-note evidence, and only a day or two later filed her police report.
That would be an assertion the prosecution would have difficulty refuting.
Maybe?

Is it proper etiquette to answer your own post

LOL. The conventional pattern in this thread is you simply change your username, then answer. Congratulating yourself on a great post is a must as well ...

As far as your last two posts in general, you're really reaching dude.

-Superman-

As far as I can tell, it is starting to become pretty clear why the defense didn't waive the preliminary hearing. Perhaps there are reasonable explanations for another dude's jizz in her panties that are consistent with the prosecution's claims. But I'm wondering if there will be enough evidence of probable cause for this to make it to trial.

I might add that eyewitness testimony isn't particularly reliable, as we are finding out with this case.

Tainting the jury pool, rather than making it to trial, seems to be the primary purpose the defense used this tactic. It's really unbelievable how this type of things turns into facts. Yesterday I heard a radio DJ in L.A. comment about the "fact", that "all kinds of new information is coming out about this girl being a big slut, as evidenced by her having three different guys in as many days.

This morning, I heard the local television airhead, Jillian Barbari, comment upon about what a shame it would be if Kobe was convicted because this wasn't a case of some rapist coming into her room, but was more a case of a little tramp turning Kobe on and then becoming a PT. Who's to say this isn't what she did with all three guys?

All this, from a loaded question from Kobe's defense attorney, that was calculated to precipitate just this kind of response.

Add this to the whole "free Kobe" media circus going on in the town, and outside the courthouse, and you can see it's going to be almost impossible to find jurors who aren't influenced by all this.

What I learned from the Kobe trial: if you are ever a rape victim, make sure you show up at the hospital with clean underwear.

At this point, the judge just has to decide if there was probable cause, as I understand it. So it'll probably end up going to trial unless the accuser is thoroughly discredited. It's kind've a shame that this judge won't be around for the whole trial, as he seems to have a no-bullshit, no-circus attitude. That's more than I can say for some media-whore judges, like Lance Ito (OJ Simpson trial).

When the defense attorney got the lead investigator to admit that another man's semen was on her panties, that certainly had public relations value, no doubt about it. Maybe it will make Kobe's life (and more importantly, his ability to play basketball this season) go better. But perhaps it also increases the chances that the defense will be able to obtain more dirt about the girl, and discredit her. When the defense went into the hearing, they wanted info about the whackiness of the girl to be considered as evidence, but the judge deemed it inadmissable because of how it was obtained. There may well be a treasure trove of info indicating that this girl is a complete whack. I'm kind've hoping that this is the case -- that she's a nutcase borderline personality. If that's the case, then she has no real credibility, regardless of what the law enforcement folks say or legal system decides.

As it is, nobody else is coming forward and making claims about Kobe sexually harassing them (unlike the CA governor, who has numerous accusers). Kobe's under the microscope daily and no other accusers are coming out of the woodwork. So there doesn't seem to be much of a pattern of misbehavior regarding Kobe. At the same time, as the accuser comes under the microscope, she's beginning to look crazier and crazier.

I kinda like Jillian Barbieri. She looks pretty good and she's hilarious.

I have mixed feelings about Jillian. On the one hand, I do almost always tune in, just to see what's she wearing, on the other hand, she's become a caricature of herself. I see her as the next Phyllis Diller. The newsgirl who is smoking hot is the dark haired girl on KCOP, the one who recently sat in for Jillian....Wow!!!

I agree with most everything Dogster has said. Things are looking up for Kobe. I was especially impressed at how the Eagle County Sheriff and DA are really starting to come off as strictly small town. I am an Attorney in LA, and it seems more and more obvious to me, that Kobe's attorneys are going to eat these guys up. Especially the investigating detective, what a smuck....

Even whack jobs can get themselves raped, you know.

My personal take, however, is that Kobe did her in 5 minutes, and she wanted to hang around. When he told her to get lost, she got mad and got even. This is based on zero evidence, however.

It is true that it is illegal to rape whack jobs, promiscuous women, and even prostitutes. The strong Colorado Rape Shield law will keep her past sexual behavior out of evidence at the actual trial unless it proves some other relevant fact in the case (i.e. her alleged promiscuity is irrelevant in itself). It may well be admissible if there is a basis to claim for instance, that frequent sexual activity could have cumulatively caused her vaginal injuries. On the other hand, it is possible that the prosecution may be able to make a case without introducing the alleged physical trauma (they do claim that they are withholding evidence that will be used at trial)...in which case the defense will have a hard time introducing it's evidence of the accuser's sexual history.

Neither will her past mental/emotional condition be admissible at trial unless it is demonstrated that it was a condition that persisted over time so as to be manifest at the time of the alleged rape...all of that is determined away from the jury.

So there is no question that the defense pulled off a public relations coup in this hearing, but a good amount of the damage done to the prosecution may not be useful to them at trial.

I suspect that the outcome will come down to the poise and credibility that this young woman presents when she herself takes the stand to tell her story.

(Message edited by erip on October 16, 2003)

Dogster says: "I kinda like Jillian Barbieri. She looks pretty good and she's hilarious."

Well, there goes the one last tiny shred of credibility that Dogster might have had left.

Anyway, all of this "attack the victim" bullshit is just that. Bullshit. As Erip pointed out, it is still illegal to rape someone who is mentally unstable and/or promiscuous.

In fact, predators like Bryant usually sniff out the weak and vulnerable to attack. All the more reason to fry his rapist ass.

(Message edited by orgngrndr on October 16, 2003)

I think the fact that the prosecution via the "victim"introduced evidence of semen other than the accussed into court. (The panties of the victim when she turned up for a rape test, showed another person's, not Kobe's semen present) If this is in fact true. The defense can admit evidence of prior sexual history either at the time of the "alleged" rape, and possibly even before.
Remember as the prosecution introduced the panties as evidence, the defendent can take all mean neccessary to rebut this evidence. The "victims" past sexual history became relevant when the prosecution admitted into evidence. If the prosecution admits that indeed the victim had sexual encounters with other men in a near time frame as the accused, the physical evidence of trauma., ie vaginal trauma caused by forced sexual intercourse by Kobe Bryant, then becomes circumstantial., ie the vaginal trauma, was suffered by the defendent in sexual intercourse with more than one individual, one of who is Kobe Bryant. The evidence becomes circumstantial and of course any credible reason given by defense has to be considered valid over the prosecutions.

This was a big "whoops" as well as the initial police investigators statements that contradicted the later ones,
which initially did not include statements by the victim of "stop". The fact that the "victim" initiated the encounter, showed no evidence of trauma, by eyewitnesses after the alleged rape took place, and did not submit to a rape exam until at least 24 hours after the crime took place, contradicts much of the prosecutions case. The threshold
of evidence is so light at these hearings, that the fact that the proceeding took TWO days instead of a few hours speak volumes about the prosectution's unpreparedness and the defense's hardball tactics.

I suspect in pretrial evidentiary motions, probably under seal, any real evidence the prosecution has will come out. If its as bad as evidence provided at the preliminary hearing it will be a very short trial. Even with twelve white rednecks.

The defense attorneys made the prosecuters look real vulnerable, and even shook up the police investigator.
Can you imagine what kind of pressure and questions she will need to endure if she took the stand. A "deer in the headlights of an oncoming mack truck" was used by one attorney covering the trial, to describe the victim if she need to take the stand.

In the case of the Kobe trial, you have some extreme whackos (Kendricks) who are ready to lynch the accused without sufficient evidence, and on the other hand you have extreme whackos (Superman) who attempt to expose (by name, photo, or worse) the accuser and perhaps rip her apart in other ways. Between the whacko who is at the center of this case (could be either the defendant or the accuser), and the whackos on the fringes, it is a pretty ugly state of affairs. As the late, great Eric Hofer noted, extremists tend to have lots of negative qualities in common regardless of their actual stated positions. When the true-believer whacko extremists outnumber the rest of us, it often signals the demise of that civilization.

I think many of us prefer a less adversarial path to the truth and we will be happy when the actual evidence (or lack thereof) comes to light.

Just thought I'd add that.

I hope the Lakers kick ass this year, by the way. Suffer, Laker - haters!

I heard Bryant described on the radio this morning as looking "weak, emaciated, and 20 pounds lighter". I just might have to watch the game tonight, just for the entertainment value of watching Bryant getting his emaciated ass kicked on the court! If he isn't guilty, what the hell is he so worried about, anyway??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

GO LAKERS!!!

What is Kobe worried about?

The good news is that, if guilty, he will probably get off anyway.

The bad news is the non-zero chance that he may be convicted even if he is not guilty.

I would love to see Kobe commit suicide over all this. Man, that would be sweet!!!

Why do you pretend to have knowledge that Kobe's guilty when that has yet to be determined?

Is there a rational basis for your post that calls him a "predator" and urges that "his rapist ass" be fried?

It is obvious from the actions and mannerisms portrayed by someone with his personality. He is a selfish, arrogant prick, on the court and off; the type of person who thinks he has the right to brutally rape a weak, confused young girl. Such thought processes are typical in predators and ballhogs.

There is no doubt in my mind that he is guilty of everything he is accused of, and probably a lot more that his victims were either too embarrassed or afraid to come forward with. Besides, I really hate the fucking Lakers. At least I am finally getting some entertainment value out of them now, anyway.

SF Hombre:
It is more serious than you can imagine. Kendricks is part of the lynch mob, and even his medications can't control his irritability at times. Based on his lonstanding actions at this site, it is obvious that HIS personality resembles Ted Bundy, Charles Manson, Hitler youth,and others of their ilk (with nothing better to do than watch a pre-season game). He's one of the most dangerous people at this site. I'm risking my life just telling you this.

As I said before the Colorado Cutie had a bad case of jungle fever. When Kobe's weapon of mass destruction came out she flinched and decided it wasn't such a good idea at the time.

It is a weak and flimsy case and would not see the light of day in most states ofthe union except for several factors:

Colorado has one of the most rigid rape laws in the country. The mere fact that she said she was raped was all the prosecution needed to bring this case to trial. In almost every other state, the amountof evidence presented to the judge may have not been enough to go to trial. The case is so weak that even the presiding county judge has misgiving about evidence the prosecution presented. The prosecuting attorney is now crying to the court that Kobe's team directly leaked information on ky evidence they would now NOT wanted to enter into evidence ( the infamous cum panties)

The fact that Eagle county is one of the most red-neck racist counties in Colorado. The fact that some BLACK man ravished one of their virginal white girls was more than the county sheriff could take. As lynching is something that's hard to get away with now, they thought they could now do it legally.

I don't think that even an all-white female jury woul convict Kobe after his defense team methodically takes apart the prosecutions case.

Regardless what anybody, even Kendricks, thinks of Kobe, it has as much "relevence" as the "victims" prior history as the town slut.

The case is a he said/she said case with little or no physical evidence to support the prosecution claims. There can be no good reason to bring a case with such weak evidence to trial unless it was to support a civil action on the back end .This enforces my contention when this case first came to light. It looks and smells like a shakedown.

OG

It looks and smells like a rich celebrity who has no regard for the rights and feelings of common folk.

We need to send a message to the rich and privileged in this country: your wealth does not give you the right to destroy the lives of innocent people.

If indeed Kobe is guilty of rape, he should be punished. This is true weather you are rich or poor.

But some things in this case are just "fishy".

The fact that Kobe didn't deny he had sex and was, according to him, consensual, confirmed by the fact the "victim" made contact and was pro-active in going to his room in secret to avoid security and to ensure he had a room at the far end of the hotel away from all other guests. (She assigned the room to Kobe). It seems to me her actions indicated premeditiation for a sexual tryst.

The fact that Kobe is a Rich_and_famous_athlete, these type of people are sometimes set up with things like "bar fights" "altercations" "accidents" that are set-up to extract money from these people. Most are nuisance suits and are settled out of court, most likely with a cash settlement.

The fact that the "victim" consulted with friends and family and maybe even had legal consultation BEFORE she went to the police to report the rape almost 24 hours later.

The fact that the Sheriff's department, The head sherrif and the lead investigator of the Kobe case was the subject of investigation, prosecution and punishment by the Federal governement for racial profiling. The fact that in a community of around 13,000 there are onlt about a dozen or so blacks, ensuring the fact that the probability of getting one minority on the jury is virtually nil.

The fact that with this case are problems with the law, which although is designed to protect victims of rape, gives the opportunity to prosecute rape on very flimsy evidence.

The fact that there are copious civil lawsuits dealing with rape in Colorado, (as opposed to criminal cases) supports my contention, that the law can easily be used for a shakedown.

Given all the "fishy" attributes of this case, the flimsy evidence, the racial profiling, the stacked legal system, and the fact that all people should be given the presumption of innocence, it is concievable that Kobe is probably innocent of forced sexual intercourse or rape aginst the victim.

It is no stretch to believe he may be guilty also.

Given the fact that most people believe in the fact that the police are honest, present evidence in a clear, concise way, that is equitable to the defense and prosecution and have no ulterior motive other than to see justice done. People are willing to give the prosecution credence in the investigation. With this vote of confidence, may prosecuters can take on cases that may be stacked against them, knowing win or lose, they represent the public, the law and justice.

Then there is the feeling that the rich can buy justice, no matter what the crime.

But far too many times we see how justice can be manipulated, either through spin, outright lying, or by falsification of evidence either through misrepresentation or complete fabrication.

For every fat cat from Enron or WorldCom who is prosecuted or for that matter not prosecuted, and who may never be jailed for their offences, there are thousand of poor who are routinely jailed for crimes they didn't do.

I agree with Kendricks that there are two levels of justice, one for the rich and powerful that can include celebrities and sports figure, and one for the rest of us.

But at the same time there is no doubting there are levels of justice for those who are white and those who are not.

Kobe's sin is that he falls within the cracks of both.

OG

Organgrinder, it is true that non-whites in this country have a higher than normal chance of getting accused, arrested, and convicted of crimes than white people. Indeed, there is a feeling within many police departments that many blacks and mexicans (in particular) are all guilty of something, so we might as well just convict them of whatever we can. This is bullshit, and should be stopped.

Still, letting rich and powerful black defendants off the hook for rape or murder because they are able to hire crack defense teams does not address or correct the wrong of unfair prosecution of minorities.

Riley resigns as coach

http://sports.excite.com/news/10242003/v8074.html

It seems to me Kendricks has a personal interest in this case. Has anyone suggested that there should be a DNA check on Kendrick's cum to see if it matches the other person who had recently visited the victim's panties.

I never had sex with that woman.

Whacko? I'm more scared of repressed loner know it alls than entertaining guys like Kendricks and popular fun loving guys such as myself. Ha ha. Does bitchster miss mommy? Does hims need attention?

Superman ownz Dogster ... hmmm, too hip? What'll work? Oh yeah .... Superman > Dogster.

Math nerds rule.

-Superman-

Riley was overrated. Anyone could have coached Kareem, Magic and Worthy to title after title. He never won anything without them and he could never get over the hump with prime Ewing and prime Mourning & Hardaway ... to make matters worse, he became a living caricature of himself these past 5 years or so.

Riley's greatest contribution to the game is showing doofus Phil Jackson the outline for success. 2 superstars at all times = titles. Never try and build a team from scratch! When your players get old and sucky, bail!

Oh yeah, thanks to Riley for inspiring Steve Lavin's haircut. GAY!!

-Superman-

I think "Superman" has already done an analysis of Kendricks' cum. Or is it the other way around?

Superman and Dogster are still going at it after all this time? Some things never change.

A Feeling real good after the Yankees loss and Clemens exit from baseball as a loser (oops, wrong thread) kind of guy,

Ootie

Hey Ootie, how'd the Metropolitans do this year? Piazza's never quite been the same since Clemens beaned him, huh? What a shame.

Shaq and Kobe going at it like two little bitches! Best record of all time? I don't think so.

-Superman-

He he he. Shaq and Kobe are still going at it after all this time? Some things never change.

As I said before, one of the nice things about the infusion of new, great veteran talent on the Lakers is that Phil Jackson can bench the stuck up prima donnas when things get out of line.

When and if Kobe gets his psychological and physical life in order, he's gonna have to deal with a kick-ass behavior modification program orchestrated by Phil.

Kobe's left with a simple decision. Change or suffer indefinitely. It's a Zen moment and I'm diggin' it.

Shaq kind've has a point, even if he's a dick. Payton and Malone came to play with him, not Kobe. What he may be missing, being a talented self-centered angry dude, is that they primarily came to play for Phil Jackson -- the guy with all the rings.

This season's gonna be fun.

Wow the Lakers look very good in thier first game !

Payton and Malone and playing great. You can see championship in their eyes !!

Superman, there isn't anything you could possibly say that would put even a miniscule dent in the euphoria I'll be feeling for the next full year regarding the Yankee and Clemens loss. Nothing.
We now return you to the Superman/Dogster bout already in progress.

A Somewhere Matiz is smiling also kind of guy,

Ootie

Ootie, there isn't anything you could possibly say that would put even a miniscule dent in the euphoria I'll be feeling for the next year regarding the Lakers kicking ass and Superman's damaged sphincter. Nothing.

Phil didn't have to bench Kobe's ass for the opening game but he did. Good move. Advantage Phil.

The Lakers already look like they are ready to stomp everybody else, Kobe or no Kobe.

A Suffer Laker Haters Kind've Guy

In Vegas the Lakers are -110 at becoming champs.

This is the first time for any sport that I've seen a future bet pay less than 1:1 at the beginning of the season.

I don't think that Phil benched Kobe. Phil is quoted as saying something about how he doesn't understand how someone could play one day and not be able to the next, absent any significant change in their physical status. He came right out and said that he thinks that Kobe not playing is the result of a combination of stesses.

The L.A. papers think that this was just Kobe pouting. Phil says he will try to be supportive of what Kobe is going through, but you get the feeling that he may come down harder on this bs if it continues to be a problem.

Scarus

Lakers at -110 is better odds than the 5/7 I saw a couple weeks ago.

A Withered of odds kind of guy,

Ootie

T'wolves score 61 points? In 48 minutes? I realize that the hackfests in the Eastern conference have been stifling offense among those boring-ass teams for several years now (thanks, Riley, RIP), but a western conference playoff team? The NBA now officially sucks ass. Save it LeBron!

Well, it is already looking pretty clear. The Lakers are LOADED with talent, and things are going smoothly on the court, even at this early period in the season. The Lakers have barely cranked the ignition, and they already look like they can involuntarily penetrate anything in their paths. Having a superior point guard in Payton makes a huge difference, and he's is a big reason things are going pretty smoothly at this point. I'm looking forward to when the new additions become more familiar with the Triangle and with the other members of the team.

My guess is that Phil will mix things up and try some new things at some point. This may cost them a game or two, but it will get more players involved and familiar with the system. Jackson is great at pacing his key players so that they'll be healthy when the playoffs arrive. That will be especially important for some of the fossils on this team.

LOL. Halloween rules.

NBA Championship -
San Antonio to win the title(5-2)- 7 units
Detroit to win the title (10-1)- 4 units

I especially like the fact that Detriot is the no. 3 seed, there`ll will be good value in the series odds in the conference semi`s and con. finals as the Pistons will most likely be the road team in the series if form holds and Jersey and Indy advance. Thye same can be said for San Antonio, but there`s a chance they could get the no. 1 seed if Minny loses to the Griz, i`m hoping they won`t.

NBA PLAYOFFS--- 3 teams playing on a championship level statistically

1. San Antonio
2. Minnesota
3. Detroit

Lakers- not playing on a championship level, most overrated team in the playoffs

Indiana- one of the worst teams to finish with the best record in the league, slim chance to win the title

Sacramento- one of the worst rebounding teams in the league, only 1 team has won the title in the last 30 years as poor a rebounding team as Sac., slim chance to win the title

Detroit (game 3) -4.5 over Mil.--- 11 units to win 10 units