Well you got off a lot cheaper than I did and my ex never had even been inside of a bar. The stupid bitch should have waitned until I got the house built but I'm glad she didn't

Maybe I misread cf, I thought you were referring to the whole discussion in general when you said "any of the generalizations in here".

I get to know many working girls as people. Meeting lots of girls and getting to know them deeply is not mutually exclusive. I've met parents and have been to family events in Tijuana. I'm not a stud, the girls tell me I treat them better than most guys out there.

Anonymity? What did I miss?

Pauncho you better not leave Mexico, the Latinas are amateurs at manipulation compared to the Asians.

Beavis and Pauncho, a girl friend (not girlfriend) of mine that I knew for over a year from Tijuana set me up and almost got me killed. No loss greater than that, I got lucky.

d'ART.... Yeah, but if they kill me, they can only get this week's money !

Beavis, from the sound of what you said, I offer you an honorable license to post on my "A Fool & His Money Are Soon Parted" thread.

Pauncho

The whole story - Long, Boring
+++++++++++++
LAP-DANCE LUNACY

Back in '01 in the latter part of the year, in a club on Revolucion, I met a lap-dance provider whom I liked, but due to other diversions never did anything other than a few "I'm like a breast-fed infant" lap-dances (no milk) with several dancers, but mostly with the one.

This was back a ways and most of the time I was spending very little money, often only spending $1.00 to suck a dancers tit on-stage. This was because I was spending all my money with my long-term favorita (puta). Two or three months into this year, my long-term favorita disappeared, never to return.

Then one dancer and myself started hitting it off a little. I'd usually bring candy to distribute to the dancers and waiters (cheaper than tips). Later on, I brought bras from the 99 cent store (guess what I got to kiss for payment ?) I also started rubbing dancer's backs between dances. Due to my tactile orientation, this seems a little bit like sex without paying for it.

Anyway, one dancer (who amazingly doesn't seem to sell blow jobs nor sex - had she offered, I would have bought) became my favorite. When her daughter had a birthday, I brought her a few toys from the 99 cent store. She ate it up.

She and her sister (who also dances there) also had birthdays just after. Seems like the whole damn family had birthdays within a month (ALARMS !) I bought both sisters gold earrings and See's candy, which set me back about $60.00 (for everything). Every time I went in there after that, she had them on. We talked - as much as acoustics, my lousy spanish, and my lousy hearing allowed (not much at all).

Somewhere in this account, I'm not sure where, fits the "unfortunate injury". During a lap dance, my friend acted lackluster and I asked "what's wrong ?". She replied that her sister (the dancer) had a 9-month-old who had fallen at home, injured her head, the same day had an attack (seizure ?) and had fallen again, injured head again on the other side, and was currently en-route to the club in a taxi with a 3rd sister who baby-sits the kids.

(By the way, this wasn't a lie. Three weeks later, the kid's head still had big bruises.)

She had asked me not to tell the child's mother until they arrived, so as to not worry her. Sounded serious to me. All this took over an hour in a taxi from her distant residence. When the taxi came, both girls, their brother (a waiter there) and I all climbed in, and went to a private clinic.

Everybody felt like shit, me included. When they piled out of the taxi at the clinic, I took my friend aside, put 1,000 pesos in her hand (which she tried to refuse) and told her that I had (barely) 1,000 pesos more, if needed. She gave the 1,000 pesos to her sister (the child's mother) and I gave her the second 1,000 pesos. All I had left was enough for a couple of tacos and bus fare.

I told her that the baby's health was much more important than my fun this weekend. A week or two later, I explained to her that the fortunate aspect of the weekend was that the injury occurred in my 3-payday month which comes twice a year. A situation where my heart wouldn't allow me to do less, my wallet wouldn't allow me to do more. (I didn't want them getting any grand ideas about my wallet.)

Time passed. We drew closer. (Her sister seemed to encourage this - having decided I was OK after funding the baby's up-front medical bills ?) There was a lot of bills. Both girls took on a second job after hours at another club to pay these off. I was impressed by the family spirit and cooperation.

More time passed, I spent a lot of her work hours rubbing her back. I wanted to get to know her.

I told her that I "had an interest" in her, and that I wanted her (using "querer" - this can mean to want for sex/want romantically/ love), and that I would like to meet with her on her day off (1 day/week), take her and her daughter to the park, a movie, or something, because I knew I liked her, but didn't know her at all, but wanted to. Not this week, but in the future (funding issues).

She demurred, ended the lap dance, and didn't sit with me the rest of the night.
I figured that I had blown that one.... So both next Friday and Monday I went back to the club and she wasn't there (changing residences). But her two cousins (both dancers, one super-sexy, the other super-beautiful) were there.

I wanted to do the super-sexy one (she sells it), but I didn't think she'd let me do her because I know them all pretty well. So I opted for lap dances (spread out over several hours) with the super- beautiful one instead - 4 dances, 3 songs per dance, 20 bucks per. This was a bit of a miracle because in three months I had paid for maybe six or eight lap dances in this club.

For a slender girl, she's got big tits (34C ?), and I was lost in them and in her waist-length black hair. She mentioned that her cousin might be jealous, and I told her that her cousin wasn't interested in me.

I said "Mejor haber querido y perdido, que nunca haber querido una vez". This is one of my "they think it's original" sayings, meaning "better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all". Although certainly not a mexican dicho, it has a certain mexican flavor to it that touches them a feeling level. She nodded her head wisely.

(For you old farts, you may recognize it as inspired from the line "If you've never gambled, at love and lost, then you've never gambled at all" from the song "Moonlight Gambler" [Frankie Lane ?] .) This is part & parcel of my attempt to seem more poetic (see "Chica Psychology" thread).

Well, I sucked and licked and (repeat as necessary) and cuddled and cooed and stroked until I felt totally in love (for the day) with this woman (I'm emotionally mature, eh ?). At the end of it all I told her "Now I have to join the line of your ex-boyfriends who are crying because they can't be with you" (sounds a lot better in my fractured spanish - definitely poetic). She laughed.

The next weekend I went back and the object of my affections was there, now engagingly friendly. Her cousin (the super-beautiful one) sidled up. When she asked how I was, I said "Todavia estoy llorando" (I'm still crying). She laughed and said "Yo tambien.".

The girls pawed through the bras & "tangas" (thong underwear) that I had bought at the dollar store. Then they faded away, except for my friend. We talked. We went back to lap dance land. She mentioned how jealous she felt.
++++++++++++++
(impromptu spanish lession; "Celosa" is the word for "jealous", but seems to be used also in circumstances where we would use the word "possesive", as well.)
++++++++++++++
I told her that when I had told her that I was interested in her, and she didn't respond, and avoided me, that meant she had no interest in me. So there was no reason to be jealous. She replied "Tengo interes in ti" (I have an interest in you).

Boing !!! Ole Pauncho's heart skipped a beat. Unlike her sister - who dances VERY sexily, or her cousin who's so damn beautiful, my friend is merely engaging, and has a shy smile (after 3 or 4 years in the business...). I'm a sucker for a likeable girl.

She also said she'd like to go out on her day off as I had previously mentioned. So we arranged for me to show-up at her work Wednesday so she could explain where she lived (she had just moved and didn't know the address), play a little, then meet her at home Thursday morning.

So Sunday, she, her brother, and I got together with my (4X expanded on a xerox machine) copy of a map of her neighborhood. Her first stab at it was a half-mile off. (You can tell I've had experience with mexican's directions by the lengths I went to.) He made three attempts and she gave landmark instructions.

We agreed that I should make a trial run finding this place. I went looking, found the grocery store with the public pay-phone, an started looking for the house. I couldn't find it. A passerby suggested I start asking at various doors.

So I asked at a house or two. At the third house I started to ask the young woman there, and recognized her as the younger sister who babysits. They were only off by one block and the wrong house color.

She invited me in & I got the chance to meet my friend's young daughter. This was a good thing as the kid is super jealous & possessive of her mom. I got a chance to meet her without her mom being there, and the attendant jealousy problem.

I went back to the club, talked with (OK, lap dances, too) my friend, and told her that I'd either come down Wednesday night or Thursday morning - I wasn't sure.

Wednesday night, I arrived in Tijuana about 5pm, got my hotel room, visited a "preferred provider" for an hour, and went to my friend's club. She wasn't there. Her sister was, and told me my friend was at home waiting for me. I felt really guilty about this.

I went to my hotel and cleaned up a little. I hadn't expected all this. I went to the house and my friend welcomed into her home, but we patently ignored each other - part of the grand plan to subvert her daughter's jealousy. Pretty soon her sister from the club showed up, they fixed dinner, and the relatives started arriving.

When the brother, wife & 5 kids arrived (for that week, all of the family that lives in Tijuana). All told there were 13 of us. We ate, talked, looked at the family albums, and I read kiddie books (that I brought) to the little kids while they sat on my knee. I felt ACCEPTED.

That night I told myself that this woman was special and I silently swore off putas until I knew where this relationship was going.

The next morning the sisters (my friend included), the 2 kids, and I went to Parque Morelos. This didn't work out to well as many features of the park are closed on weekdays (the train and the boats). My take on this is that I was expected to be more of a "host" than I was.

But we ate, kicked back on the blanket, tried to fly a kite in insufficient wind.
(Impromptu spanish lesson - you fly a kite in "aire", "viento" is the kind of wind you break. Don't get these confused, shout the wrong one, and embarrass your girl in public). Later on the way back, we stopped at her brother's business and discovered that another brother showed up to live and work in Tijuana for a year.
Then we returned to the house.

The total time alone was about 15 minutes in the kitchen while the kids were off misbehaving. We spent it staring each other in the face (the first time I had ever REALLY looked into her eyes in the light). Her eyes were all aglow and she was smiling. and it was time for me to return to the states. It simply wasn't enough time together. I wanted to know this girl.
+++++++
Cautionary note that I ignored; Somewhere along the line here, I had started doing 6 or 8 lap dances a weekend with my friend, knowing she needed the money. I did enjoy the process, and gosh, look how it was going...
+++++++
The next weekend I bought 8 lap dances, 4 Saturday & 4 Sunday. She was eager enough - business isn't good. I spent some time talking with her sister who told me "Guardala" (take care of her). She also called me (instead of my name) Cuñado (which means brother-in-law). Gosh, that's a little scary.

When a crowd showed up and it was her turn to dance, I found myself getting so jealous that I had to look away. When she went into "the curtained-off dark zone" for a lap dance with a client, I almost puked. I had to meditate away as much of the stress as I could - it ain't easy meditating in a loud topless bar.

Her sister & I talked. I told her how I was being bothered by jealous feelings. She replied that my friend was jealous when I rubbed other dancer's backs and stuff. (I had already stopped sucking dancer's tits of my own accord).

Later My friend and I talked, & I told her that she wasn't my boss in that she could tell me what to do, but that we ought to talk about what bothers her, because I would do what she wanted because I care about her feelings. Turns out I'm still allowed to rub her sister's back (or even feel her up on the stage), but neither her cousins' nor the other dancers. (I think I struck a bad bargain here...)

We talked and agreed to go out again Thursday - and I would show up Wednesday night if I could. Something like the 3 of us to a movie or the amusement park. I have told her more than once that I know that she and her daughter are a "package deal". I returned to the states.

The next Weds night I returned to the bar. We greeted each other with "I've missed you" and "I've been thinking about you". I passed her a package with 4 tangas inside, and told her I had a bunch of toys for her brothers' kids, but they were in the hotel.

We talked about (her idea) me going with her to (her home state) in June to meet the family. I told her I didn't know if I could afford it as I blow all my money on her (almost true).

She started referring to me as her "novio" and herself as my "Novia". I liked the sound of that ! Her sister stopped by our table and I teased her about the numerous rings she wore, telling her that in the states, young women who did that were trying to evade people noticing that they weren't married yet. Her sister told me I ought to buy her a ring (she doesn't wear any).

Then my friend's stories started. "You're my first customer today". "OK, I'm not rich today, but let's go do a lapdance". Upon completion "Another lapdance ?", but I didn't bite right away. (I forgot to notice that she didn't cross herself for her first customer - me.)

Well her story was:
1. No customers (neither lapdance nor ficha drinks) today.
2. Yesterday (working 2 shifts at different bars) 2 ficha drinks = 4 dollars, minus 2 for tipping waiters and the DJ, minus 1 for cab fare, = 1 dollar for the entire day.
3. Her mother's diabetes is worse, she needs 5,000 pesos for "medicamentos" (about $550.00). She needed money to cough up her share of this (how much I don't know).

As I have access to diabetic medicines (and especially, testing supplies), I told her to contact her mom right away and find out exactly what she needs, or better yet, have her send an empty pill bottle. She responded that her mom would bring the bottle when she came to Tijuana to consult a specialist in the near future.

Then she told me that she would have to work another shift in the other club tonight, so she would be tired, and that I should meet her at her house around noon instead of 10 AM. The she added that if she didn't make enough money in the night, she wouldn't be able to go out with me the next, but would have to work instead.

I hadn't really expected the "normal sequence of whore's stories"
1. "No hay trabajo",
2. If I don't have more money, I can't spend time with you. (I still didn't get it yet [Duh !]. This was a variant on another whore story of "If you want to see me, you have to cough up money to replace my lost wages").
3. "Sick relative - medicine expensive").

Out of habit, I said that I had already helped her with the numerous lap dances I had purchased two days prior. We did one last lap dance and her shift ended. I left the bar and went to my hotel.

Stupid me, I was restless and didn't know why. I took a walking tour around the zona, had a taco, then went to my hotel. FLASH !!! Suddenly I understood.
Despite everything, she was more interested in my wallet than me !

How could this be ? Just because I more than twice her age AND more than twice her weight (and she is NOT skinny), how could she want me for the wrong reasons ? All of this came to me about 10:30 pm Weds night.

I got mad, took the bag of toys (I wasn't mad at the kids !), took a taxi to her house and had it wait for me. There was a million people in the yard (maybe all kids - All told there are 10 kids in the family living in Tijuana. Some of them started yelling "Hola Pauncho".

I went to the door and knocked. When the 3rd sister opened the door, I mumbled "This is for (my friend's name). Suddenly I noticed the 2nd sister, who looked a little surprised to see me. (I thought she had to work the second bar too, but I'm not sure.) If my friend was there, I didn't see her, nor did I look for her.

I just mumbled that my taxi was waiting, started to ease myself out the door, and, when her brother said "Where are you going ?", I answered "to my hotel" and shut the door. (No doubt I was rude, but I was really pissed off).

I had left her a short note inside the bag of toys that said "I have decided to return to the states." and "Que la vaya bien." I got in my taxi (while the kids were shouting "Pauncho, Pauncho !") returned to the hotel.

I gathered my stuff together and took the cab to the hotel. I walked another turn around La Zona (I had 1,500 pesos in my pocket.) It had been a week since I'd been laid, but I was in low spirits. I couldn't have managed a hard-on for a free BBBJ.

I returned to my hotel, gathered my stuff, and took a cab to the border
Just before midnight Wednesday, the pedestrian waiting time was less than 5 minutes.

I haven't tried to call her, her phone card is always exhausted anyway. She hasn't called me. The phone rang in the middle of the night. I picked up with expectation. It was somebody's FAX machine.

Already I miss her. But when I think of her I'm angry.

Saturday (4-20-02) I returned to Tijuana. I first visited La Zona to fortify myself. (It's had to be pissed-off at a sexy woman when you have a hard-on. I went to the club. She wasn't there. I went out to lunch, ran some errands, went back to the club.

My friend was having drinks with a client. She saw me but didn't acknowledge me.

Her sister - who seemingly had a great interest in us getting together, but I think was really orchestrating the whole thing - asked me why, when I showed up at the house Wednesday night, I didn't stick around. I told her that I was just running an errand dropping off the bag of toys, and besides, I hadn't been invited.

She could tell I was upset and quizzed me about what was wrong. I told her I didn't want to say. My friend went back for a lap-dance with the client. When she returned, she bee-lined to my table. She gave me the "ritual hug & kiss on the cheek" but I barely hugged her and didn't return the kiss. Her sister was watching but just staying out of range.

Knowing that I dote on her kid, she mentioned that her kid missed me. (She didn't say anything about herself.) She asked me why I didn't show up Thursday morning. I asked her if she had seen my note in the bag that said I was returning to the states. She said "Yes", so I told her when she read it she had no reason to expect me.

She quizzed me again and I told her that I had been angry. She asked me why and I told her that we needed to talk a lot, but that she was always working and we never had time to do so. (It's impossible to really converse about important stuff in a club due to interruptions & noise).

All of the things I had thought to say suddenly evaporated. I was suffering from a distinct lack of courage. We sat there a few minutes. I wouldn't look at her, I just stared out into space.

Finally she said she needed to wash up before her turn dancing on stage. I knew it was now or never. As she rose, I said to her "Voy a irme sin regresar" "Te doy curso...". She looked startled and questioned "sin regresar ?". I repeated, completing my words "Voy a irme, sin regresar. Te doy curso libre. Bien andanza." I turn on my heel and walked, not looking back.

(Translation: I am going to leave without returning. I give you free reign [We're breaking up]. Godspeed.)

I would have liked to have talked about it with her, but there was never the opportunity.....

This hurts like hell. I really wanted her. But I have finally learned NEVER to allow them to take advantage of you. This lacks respect. Without respect, there is nothing.

"What you're really gonna' find out it that women have their house rules,
and they're always gonna' win because of things you couldn't know."*

Although I may be wrong, I think a mexican man might have just beat her up, then stayed with her. I just don't have that in me.

I would have really like to be able to return to that club - I liked it. Hell, I liked HER. But between her seven brothers and how romantically foolish I am, I'm better off out of there.

I returned to Tijuana Sat (4-27-02), and somehow managed to avoid her club on Revolucion - stayed in the zona, and parts north & west.

"For my life is something serious, full of pleasure, full of pain.
And I hope to never see her, Yet I long for her again."*

(Sometimes a song says it better.) * "LA PENDANGA" © 2002 GFH

The up side of this is:

1. My spanish is getting more "conversational".
Every hour that I spend with kids is a fantastic language lesson.

2. For less than the cost of one lap-dance, I can get a blow job and sex.
A little less fun, but quite soothing.

I used to think that West Fargo was a very cynical individual. More and more I find myself valuing his advice.

Pauncho

Great story, Pauncho. Thanks for sharing.

MrBill

Great story, Pauncho. I always enjoy your long and touchy writings. I also had similar experience, so I know how you feel when you finally realized they are more interested in your money than you.

On a side note, since your spanish is good, why not just look into her eyes and say, "It's all about the money, isn't?" Someday, when I can speak the language well enough, I am going to say that to the chicas who use me.

Sr. Pauncho,

Fargo is one true Maestro

I don't understand what pissed you off.

To Antonio 99... My spanish isn't that good, but a former Tijuana resident helps me at work. I told her "The stars that I saw in your eyes were dollar signs." (Las estrellas que vi en los ojos tuyos fueron simbolos de dolares).

To Bookie....What pissed me off it that she would go to the trouble of "the all of the relatives" routine.

I went to her bar last night. She and her sister are determined to salvage this economic resource (me).

She asked me why she hadn't seen me lately. This after I had said ""Voy a irme sin regresar." "Te doy curso libre." and "Bien andanza." I asked her what she thought I meant when I said "Te doy curso libre." She said she didn't know.

I snagged a female waiter and had her translate (spanish-to-spanish !). I told her I was hot for her (at least half-true) but that I couldn't be a boyfriend, nor even a real friend - but just "good acquaintances" with someone that I couldn't trust.

Then she started the excuses - how pathetic! I wouldn't pay her for a lap-dance, but I did pay her sister 2 dollars to do a full-body masage with her breasts on stage.

I told her sister that she doesn't have to "not grab my cock for her (my friend's) sake" anymore.

I simply will not give her money that I don't get EXCELLENT value for, in the future. Like I told her sister, "You know that there are other bars where they give lap-dances.

Pauncho

""Voy a irme sin regresar." "Te doy curso libre." and "Bien andanza." I asked her what she thought I meant when I said "Te doy curso libre." She said she didn't know."


I wouldn't have known what you were saying either. Where are you getting this spanish? Bien andanza sounds like something out of Don Quijote and "curso libre" is a free course as in a free english course.

That is free to learn at your own pace as opposed to free in cost.

Also, the phrase "curso libre" in common Mexican lingo means "free diarrhea" ;-)

Pauncho, you may be looking for true love in the wrong place my man:

......I once met an old guard pimp (the man was close to 60 yrs. old) and the most important piece of advise that man said was no matter how good looking the pussy is.....a ho' is always a ho' and she should be treated like one....end of story

According to my university of Chicago dictionary, (and understood by my friend born in Soler), the phrase "Te doy curso libre" = I give you free course (or closer= free rein) and is a more polite and refined version of Te doy calabasas (I give you squash) which is well understood to mean "we are breaking up".

The difficulty is that many chicas are poorly educated, and many persons in Tijuana speak a regional "dialect" (not a different language, but different usage and choice of words) than is commonly used in Tijuana.

The clincher in this situation is that faced with clear communication (like the above and phrases such as I don't trust you and your sister because of your lies) she wasn't angry. She just seemed to be interested in repairing the relation (because it was worth 150 bucks a week to her - the amount I was spending on her for lap-dances in the final 2 weeks).

Dumb broad - had she worked me with any finesse, I would have gladly forked it over. I liked her, and they always need help, and I don't mind IF I'm getting what I want.

Pauncho

Senor Pauncho,

I enjoyed reading your post. I liked all the emotional detail in it. I also admire your willingness to get your hands dirty, so to speak, to go see the chica's family and to hope for something more than sexo. I liked how evident it was in your writing that you liked being with those kids and working on your Spanish.

But I don't quite understand your reaction to the whole deal. It seemed like something not in the story is what set you off and make you decide it could never be and that everything was the chica's fault. She makes money being sexy for men. That's how she supports herself. That's the family business. To me that she was willing to take you into her home should mean something to you. Does it mean she thought it was good for business? Yeah. Does it mean she saw you as a cash cow? Of course. But it doesn't mean that that's the only way she saw you or could see you. If you were going to have an interesting relation with this woman it was going to take a long time. It seemed like you thought it was something that could happen in heart beat and for sure and for ever. But mongering is not that kind of party, even when it leads to extended relationships.

I am not being criticl of you. I'm just trying to provide the feedback that at least in my reading of the story your melodramatic break-up with her doesn't make a lot of sense. I can understand why she'd be puzzled by your behaviour.

Bookie,
I appreciate your feedback.

The kids are the best part in this case. If I could continue an "appropriate" relation ("kinda' granpa")with the kid (just turned 3) and screw the mom I would, but that's not how it turned out.

What pissed me off is, after coughing up the bucks, she gave me the routine that I "processed" as "I still want more money or I won't have time to see you".

I wasn't looking for an "in a heartbeat" response, just a lot of time outside the job - her day off - to get to know them both. Go to the park, the movies, etc. The kind of stuff they do anyway on their own.

If we seemed to be coming together, I would have been happy to keep coughing up the bucks. But she started trying to maximize the income & minimize the time. I resented being treated like a foolish client - although an apt description.

She did seem confused. I recently read the story "Private Dancer" and gained some insight into this.

She was neither the prettiest, sexiest, nor the best dancer, but I LIKED her. I still do. I just don't trust her like I used to.

Now I listen to every word she says with a "Is this bullshit ?" filter. It's really sad.

Another dancer (in another bar) who knows her is trying real hard to know me... I suppose there will be others.

Maybe I should try to fuck her sister or her cousin, that would get the message across.

Pauncho

And the message would be...you should spend your days off with me? Or, I'm now going to be giving my money to your cousin for favors instead of you? Or, what?

It just seems to me like you're determined to say something to her or do something that she'll understand as a perfectly clear expression of your disapointment. And it's unlikely that there's anything that you can say or do that will communicate that to her. Especially since, like most of us mongers (I definitely include myself), you don't know what you want beyond a variety of women you don't have to work too hard to have.

Now I'm not saying that you should do this, but if you wanted a kind of attachment with this woman you would have to press back when she presses you for money. You would have to say you wanted to spend more time with her and her brother's kids. You would have to say no about money sometimes and live with her being pissed off at you and becoming colder to try to manipulate you, but also knowing you would find your way back together. There would be reconciliations, probably sudden favors on her part once in a while--part business and part from the heart because her business is her heart.

In short, it would have a lot of the complications though with different tints of having a regular lady friend, except it might be more worth it because she's younger than any one you're likely to find in your own culture.

Worth it or not? I don't know. But I'm pressing this conversation because you seem to be stuck on the woman and I think that's kind of cool. I would also like to see more discussion on the board by guys working on themselves so as to be able to enjoy and better play the rich confusing emotional role of papasito.

P.S. I just reread your post and realized you probably haven't slept with her. I didn't understand that when I was writing. I guess realizing that I see it putting up with being viewed as a source as less worth it. What does she say when you tell her you want to sleep with her?

Senor Pauncho, will you be in the zona this Friday the 1oth.

Atomic Dog; Probably not, but maybe.

Bookie; She won't even kiss me on the lips, other than an occasional brush - claims she's lip shy. ! She does seem to have grown an appendage on her breasts though (me ?).

She has shared a few things about herself that seem very real, that was what was so confusing.

When I first knew her, I was spending VERY LITTLE money in that club, mostly a buck to suck a dancer's tit when they are on stage (including hers, but most everybody's, too). And a rare lap-dance.

I have spent a lot of time rubbing dancer's backs, but lately just hers. Of course now - free game.

When I first knew and liked her, I told her that talking - we were friends, but that on stage or lap dancing - it was business and she was "flesh" (carne), and we understood each other.

It was just after I told her I wanted (querer) her and was interested in her that everything happened.

But again, thanks to everyone for the feedback and advice.

As for being stuck on her, for a short while I was even avoiding the zona on the premise that she might REALLY be important to me, but I'm back again.

And I've been at least as crazy about 2 or 3 others (out & out putas) and I recognize that I can always move on. I still love all of them, of course. But I don't let them into my wallet other than paid services. Each of them had their big chance & chose otherwise.

Pauncho

"Querer": When you say "Te quiero" you are saying "I love you", not just "I want you" as the literal translation would suggest. My dancer GF has money problems (doesn't everyone?) but won't accept my help with them even though it is offered. By the way Sr. Pauncho, does your girls name and her club name both begin with "A" by any chance?

Senior-Pancho, your first mistake was that you should never ever pay for a chicas services, just rent them! Once the time limit is up, return them back to their upright position. LOL

I can relate to some issues you bring up in your story yet you must remember, not every chica invites a total stranger to her home and introduces them to her family, you made a huge step forward in getting to know a chica via the family so take that into consideration. Now, about the money situation - she was testing the waters, trying to see how much she can extract from you, remember, you are also testing the waters, trying to find out how much sex you can get out of her, its a two way streak.

All chicas in the zone or revolution are in it for the money, zero or .0000001% actually like their work. Their goal - to obtain as much money as possible with as little work as possible. I call this 'puta law of econ' taught in puta101 advance college courses. Oh trust me, she will grow to like you but she is just being business savy just like any other puta you will met, remember, YMMV based on age, looks, years in the zone, supply and demand, etc..

You should have played your cards like Donald Trump on how to close the deal. See how much you can get out of her! Turn things around, shit, she's half your age, you already are in a winning situation. Tell her storys of your money being tied up in escrow, tierra. Tell her once some sales go through, perhaps a fake inheritance, or your about to sale your stocks and make a puta profit - use your imagination, your the monger, the man, the master and she is the student. Let her earn every fucken dollar she is trying to extract. In return, you are now having fulfilled passionate unattached unemotional totally meaningless sex with a hottie knowing full well that once you tell her you are out of money, she will then tell you 'no mas miel', (no more honey).

Meanwhile, you will have a life time of memories all for only a happymeal, and I mean HAPPYMEAL, FELIZCOMIDA price! Also, don't waste your time thinking she is special cause if I had a dollar for every monger who said the same line, I would be a millionair or better yet, a mongernair! Pull out your aces, kings, queens, jacks, and 10's and just slowly wave the money in front of her, yet only a little bit at a time, much like pavlovs dog salivating when hearing a bell. Let her nibble on your bone so to speak and play the role of a person who does not have alot of money now but in the future, perhaps will. You know, the Wimpy conspiracy theory - 'I will gladly pay you tuesday for a burger I can have today', yet the burger is really a mejado panocha :-).

In otherwords, its o.k. for the chica to 'try' to get more money out of you, just use it to your advantage and get all that you can out of her before you decide to 'end' the relationship because for every breakup a chica goes through hundreds more chicos are waiting in line. Thats how the zone/revolution operates, its up to you to put aside your 'feelings' and just go with the flo and do onto others as they do onto you. You are still in the united states thinking mode - switch your mind and think streetwise and look out for number one, which is you. Once you get what you want from her, cut the strings and move on cause now you are in control and she is left upset because now she realizes that she cannot get anymore money from you and also realize that she does not have the pussy-control she thought was in-escapeable. Haaaa haa haa haaa....LOL You are in the fucken zone/revolution - enjoy the ride and don't make your situation complicated with theorys as to what the chica is trying to do to you - just enjoy the moment and take full advantage of your god given talent and intelligence and you will never be used.


Raiders.

Raiders

In Asia, the saying goes "Don't tell me your girl is different unless she has 3 tits."

Senor Pauncho

Private Dancer is a good resource for the man falling in love with a hooker. They act like they love you - they act like they care!! She must love me, I met her family!! Bullshit - pure and simple.

There are success stories of gents taking bar girls to be their brides and making a wonderful life together. However, how many of those stories are REALLY true? How many do you know of first hand? Think of how many people here share their stories of hearts broken by working girls EVERY MONTH!! Listen to Blazers - he's a divorce lawyer. He sees this crap every day. Honestly, think about how many other mongers write in about how they took their blushing bride out of hottie central and lived happily ever after.

Are these girls capable of love? Yes. Are they capable of carrying on a meaningful relationship with another person? Yes. However I'm going to bet that most of the successful marriages do NOT include marrying a woman that works in a hooker bar - especially when the husband started as a client!!

Some may feel that what I'm about to say is harsh. However, I feel it's important to state this:

SHE WORKS IN A HOOKER BAR SELLING PORTIONS OF HERSELF FOR MONEY!!!!

Granted, this girl never banged you, but has she banged some guy before for money? She works in a hooker bar and her interractions with Americans (or any male for that matter) focus mainly on extracting money for selling (renting) a portion of herself to every guy walking through the door. Whether she's cranking her ankles behind her ears for every other guy in the zone, or she just gets a little molested while on stage, she still sells a part of herself. As much as you may want to believe otherwise this is HER reality.

I think most of us mongers are lunatics (me included!!). I have tried the "rescue" routine and it BIT ME IN THE ASS!! I realize the temptation is there, but don't be a sucker!!

There are two types of errors we can make in TJ:

1) We can accept that which we should have rejected (I thought she was different, but she took my money and dumped me!!)

2) Reject that which we should have accepted (she was the most amazing girl in the world and I screwed it up!!).

How many here have made the first error? I see a lot of hands going up!! Now, how many times have we made the second error in TJ?

Some might say they would never harden their hearts in such a way. Better to have loved and lost, then to never have loved before, eh? Once again, let me repeat myself: BULLSHIT!!

The next time you're cruising around downtown LA or SD and you see an American hooker plying her trade. go ahead and ask yourself "Hey, why don't I try to rescue her?" She certainly has a family - maybe children to support - a hard luck story. The big advantage of trying to save her is it will be easier to understand the bullshit being fed to you!!

Senor Pauncho - unless she has 3 tits she's probably not any different then all the other whores that have broken your heart before. As much as you hope/wish I am WRONG about her, somewhere inside you know I am probably right...

E

Raiders and Epimetheus - great posts and probably 99% true. Must reading for all.

"Once the time limit is up, return them back to their upright position." - That's a great line!!

MrBill

Why do we fall in love with strippers and whores? That is the question, not why they cheat and lie to us. They are what they are and most don't even make a secret out of it.
I think most of us who fall in love with women in the sex-industry do so because they are afraid of real commitment and true love and relationship. I talk from my own experience when I say that many of us project their own desires and wishes into these women, without being at risk to be drawn into something too close to the heart.
Billfromreading was the first who brought this up and I agree 100%. These girls either sell something or don't even know what they have or want from life and relationships.
I wish I had it figured out, but I don't. Maybe the ideal situation is a stable relationship and using the sex-workers as fun and unconventional hobby.
However, it is not that easy. One deals with people and, unless you’re completely dead inside, can't block feelings and emotions. The game we play is more dangerous than most and mongering is a hobby more dangerous than parachuting.

CF; Name & name of club (logical and); Negative. So do you know her ? But I think you are talking about Club Aloha. The only "A" name I know there is Adriana, the "butch haircut" lesbian waitress. Or maybe Ana, who barely speaks to me.

Raiders; I not getting laid, seldom kissed, often breast fed (in the club during lap-dances).

Epimetheus; So very true. I went back to that bar and told her that I knew she was lying, I was a fool, but that I couldn't hate her.

She asked if we could be friends, and I said "amiguitos" because I knew I couldn't trust her.

She didn't get pissed over such a blatant insult, just tried to gloss it over to salvage what she could of "such an important relationship - cara a cartera) (my words).

I went back Wednesday night, rapped with her, left the bar to get a "massage" for a couple of hours in la zona (I told her my back hurts), came back, passed out candy, gave her a few dollar store bras, gave her and her sister-in-law free thongs (undies), played shill for her sister on stage (and thereby received a full-body tit masage for 2 or 3 dollars in front of the crowd.

I took her back for one lap-dance, the best she's ever given me, sucked her sister-in-law's tit, played grab-ass with her sister, pleaded and early morning getup (4:30 AM) and left, promising a few toys for her clan next trip. More fun than ever.

I noticed that I never looked at her face during the lap-dance, and felt sexual feelings, not tenderness. We are now back to the "When we're talking, you're a friend, when you're working (on-stage), ficha drinks, or lap-dancing with me "eres carne".

Works better.

I don't wish to appear rude or crude, but I find I do much better there after a one-hour blow job in la zona at budget rates. Does wonders for my will-power.

Pauncho

Pauncho, I was thinking of a blonde lap dancer named Abril in Aloha. The age, sister, and one daughter all fit but I guess it's not her. I stood her up on a date back in October when another more interesting girl came along.

Pancho - can you give us a hint on the bars name cause with all this lap dancing and tit sucking, i'm craving some milk.

Raiders, atitsuckingkindofguy.

Raiders;

The milky one in this bar wouldn't let me empty them for ten bucks.... Damn. She did give me a squirt.

But as she had promised me I could suck them during the lap-dance, she'll probably get no more lap-dances from me ..... at least not yet.

If I name the place, then I'll be totally embarrassed when you guys find out how fat & ugly a woman can be and still charm me.....

And, as always, YMMV.

CF; I think the Abril to which you refer (now not a blonde) works at El Tigre until 9PM. The one I'm thinking of offers full services (outside my experience) and shrieks and coos a lot due to ticklishness. (a Fun Girl-determind by crotch grab, not a thorough well-lit examination) Supposedly 25, but maybe 30.

Pauncho

If I name the place, then I'll be totally embarrassed when you guys find out how fat & ugly a woman can be and still charm me.....

Yay right, she probably is a cross between Jennifer Lopez looks, and Salma Hayak's body. Trust us, you won't be embarrassed for telling us where she works. Yet, my guess is perhaps Carribean or Aloha near Le Tigres. I remember at Peanuts and Beer there is a very well built latina with some nice chi chis who has a 5 month old and is currently giving milk, would that be where las hermanas trabajo? But don't worry, we respect the privacy issue, I was just in the mood for some Milk :-) thats all.


Raiders.

Now that I think of it, knowing which bar could shame HER when you find out how fat, ugly, & old I am....