For generations, the Alaskans have found a way to inhabit an inhospitable environment. Despite below freezing temperatures and months of darkness, they manage to survive and thrive. Me? I’m frostbitten. Knocking the icy coating from a frigid wife finally proved too much. After years of chilly marriage, I started hobbying. What a relief too! But back to the point of my post – how to create my best exit strategy.

Most days I feel like I am walking blindfolded through a minefield, gingerly tapping the ground before me, all the while FULLY expecting to lose a limb with every step. American women are certainly well protected by our judicial system… but enough of my whining…

As many of you may know, this dumb gringo is "Married - With Children". I am not alone in this situation. No doubt many of you have also ended marriages. What I am seeking is your sage advise.

The issues before me are division of custody, income and assets.

Any of you who knows some creative ideas to arrange any of the above in my favor are encouraged to speak up to help out a brother in his time of need.

Sincerely,

DonGringo
PS
If any of you are concerned about privacy, you can inbox me and I will reprint your advise anonymously. When this is all over for me, I promise to post a few creative ideas that I have picked up along the way. Thanks.

Well Deeg the only advice I could give you is to add up all your assets multiply by 0.10 the sum is what you get to keep.

RG.

I have to go along with Roadglide. I finally filed this week to get rid of my Colombian wife and
I know if she has her way I won't even be left with the proverbial "pot to piss in".

I advise you to keep your shirt-tail untucked while wearing short pants.

I hate to utter these words, but the key is making sure your lawyer is as good or better than hers. Assuming this is not a friendly parting, the lawyers will play the key role, so just make sure you have a good one who knows what you value most.

Good luck, bro!

A friend of mine has been planning a divorce for a year. He's sending all of his expense reimbursments to a bank in Panama, and as a cover story on where the money in the bank is going, he is withdrawing $300 cash each day and when/if he has to explain it, we're all going to say he has a cocaine habit. We figure the chancery judge may make him go into rehab or something, but shit, if you're not really addicted, rehab shouldn't be too bad. You'll just be bored.

You should be talking to Blazers. He sees this crap every day...

E

I second Mitch's sage advice.

Good luck. Divorces suck big time and you can expect the stress level to skyrocket once things get really ugly. The fact that you have children (ages ?) is probably going to be the biggest factor in how you come out of all of this. If she gets them you are going to be hit financially both coming and going. Regardless of the socalled 50/50 community porperty split, and double regardless of the feminazi crap about single mothers, most men end up with much less than half of the assets and are ordered to pay far more than half of the support payments. Plus, you will have to deal with someone who will use the children to screw you over again and again, financially and emotionally.

The idea of salting money away is a good one IF you can pull it off. However, this isn't something you can do immediately in advance even though women seem to get away with it all the time. I've heard that you need a good 2 years or more ground work. Otherwise her lawyers and the judge will just estimate the missing money and add it to the jackpot.

Last but not least, in theory, what you brought into the marriage as assets are suppose to be considered as solely yours. Whether you have comingled them or not can make a big difference on how they are viewed. The addition of children works against you even if you can prove a separation of premarriage assets with those acquired since the marriage.

No matter what happens, DON'T GIVE THE SHOP AWAY JUST TO BE A NICE GUY. Her lawyer is going to be an asshole because that what laywers are for the most part in their business. They don't get paid to be nice and feel sorry for the opposite team. And they also don't make any money if everyone is reasonable and eager to finalize things so as to move on.

TF writes "most men end up with much less than half of the assets."

You wouldn't happen to have any evidence to back up this contention would you? I'm not talking about whatever anecdotes you may have from your own or others' experiences. Evidence would be a magazine or newspaper article.

Reytj

I've been divorced twice now, have full custody of my kid, and still live in the same house, soley in my name now. Both had to take the credit cards! My advice, marry stupid women!

On a more serious note, I went in both times with only my kid on my mind. The judge is the one who actually makes the decision, not the fat ass lawyers. If your kid(s) aren't the first thing on your mind, then you get what you deserve. Of course, IMHO.

Kill all the laywers, kill them tonight...
WS


Bud

Magazine articles are evidence now?

DG
Is there a paper trail i.e. credit card charges ,hotel bills, bank withdrawls, etc to your hobbying and does your soon to be ex know of your activities ? A particularly nasty surprise sprung on me in my first divorce was that every penny she could prove I spent solely for my own pleasure, such as trips to Thailand , had to be repaid in full as part of the settlement. Her lawyer dug thru years of credit card receipts and bank statements looking for large charges and unexplained withdrawls from bank account. After a while I just raised the white flag and we agreed on a sum to prevent more investigation.

The system truly sucks and is skewed badly in favor of the poor unfortunate helpless wife. She gets half of what your future retirement will be worth as well-- payable now , not when you retire. All this eats up any community assets to the degree that you're left with a few pair of socks, and if you're lucky a matching number of underwear. But I'm not bitter.

Bigballs -- We gotta keep Blazers and LA Guy. After that I just might agree with ya.

Reytj -- Evidence would be the courts own rules on distribution of assets. Because of the 50-50 split when you add in the prepayment of future retirement benefits the guy comes out on the short end the vast majority of the time.

I need to marry J-Lo with no prenup. Fuckin Marc Anthony beat me to her. Oh well , I can wait a few months .

Khun Mor

I interpreted Tight Fit post to be an assertion that the community property laws were not being fairly applied.

If you accept the validity of the concept of community property which is the law in California then the guy gets half because his pension is community property.

Of course many of you guys who make much more than their spouses are outraged at the very concept of community property.

Reytj

Thankfully pre-nup agreements are valid in California. As Karl Malden used to say, "Don't get married without one." Ever.

Jesus! I was married 10 years, would not have kids with this bitch and was lucky, it took forever because she would not move her ass but it ended up as a 50-50 split of 60+- 40- that I put in. Guess I was lucky?

Reytj
Why the fuck should I accept the concept that when I bust my ass for 10 years to pay for every GD thing that goes into my house and my wife sits at home WITH a live in housekeeper and a nanny, that when we split up she deserves HALF of everything we have acquired ??? This is the US view of justice ? But again remember I am not bitter.

I would agree with an EQUITABLE settlement based on what was contributed during the marriage , but the law has no provision for that. Unless the earnings are about equal the primary wage earner is gonna get screwed in a divorce setting in a community property state. 90 % of the time that is the husband. I think that was Tight Fit's assertion and I could not agree more !! I do not need to read newspapers or magazines to know what is going on in divorce court--- been there done that !!

Karl Malden had it half right.

"Don't get married!" Ever.

Alimony=The screwing you get for the screwing you got;

Alimony=the worst entitlement laws on the books in the united states

I agree with Kuhn. Now, some states have a time limit on Alimony so as to incite the wife to get an education or training and become productive. Thats a smart move. Keeps them from sitting around, watching soap operas, eating bon bons and cashing their monthly checks from you.

Deeg. There are a couple of items. Thought I posted them yesterday.

Jewlery-You are entitled to half her jewlery. I used it as leverage to get something else I wanted and I used the appraised values we had for insurance purposes (PISSED HER OFF TO NO END but the judge upheld it)

You can use the depreciated value of anything you want to keep like a car, boat, jet ski; and, we all know how worthless those things become after time. I actually got away with trade in value on some things.

You are also entitled to half the value of anything in the house. furniture, fixtures, kitchen appliances, tools...everything. Just think of all the shit we have accumulated in our garages that we rarely use. Take the cash, let her keep the "things"!

Good luck buddy. We are pulling for ya.

I appreciate your input and encouragement. I won't be posting any specifics related to my situation until I am emancipated.

A special thanks to those who have inboxed me as well.

DeeG

PS
And where would I be if Mitch & GCL hadn't informed me not to 'tuck'.

Sitting on that riding mower, with cigar in hand, fat wife in house.

Reytj, I have no hard data to prove my opinion. OK, so what else is new? This only comes from years of hearing guys bitch about how their divorce(s) went. And I am sure that their ex wives would claim that they were the ones to be screwed over. As far as the community property goes what often happens is that calculations are made on the man's pension and or future earning power. Even if the guy doesn't have the money nor is there any guarantee that he ever will he is still assessed as having it. This is a real issue when the divorce deals with child support or when the wife is old enough to claim that she can no longer enter the job market. The ideal situation is be in, if you are getting a divorce, is no kids and little assets. Lawyers loose interest real quick when the money disappears.

As a California divorce lawyer, I can honestly say that the guy almost always gets his community property share. Although I have represented the good and the bad guys in these hearings, the system needs a serious revamp. I do understand that any woman who divorces shouldn't be left out in the cold with no way to get back on her feet but most women in California are now double-dippin'.

1. SPOUSAL SUPPORT: Most women end up with their community share plus spousal support(alimony). When this happens, it is truly a serious windfall for the woman. If the marriage is lengthy and the disparity of income between husband and wife is great, the man really gets taken to the cleaners. Not only does she get her community share of the assets(which can include real property and investements) but she may get a monthly spousal support check. It should be one or the other. Either she gets her community share of the property or something of equal value in the form of spousal support NOT BOTH. Granted, how much she receives of the community assets is taken into consideration for calculation of spousal support, I have seen time after time women receiving half of the house, half of the retirement and spousal support for a period of 1/3 of the length of the marriage. This is inequitable.

2. CHILD SUPPORT: One thing that should be taken into the Child support calculation is the income of the mother's new spouse. Most women in the US marry for money on the second try and the prior husband is stuck paying child support according to her income and her income alone. Meanwhile, the new replacement daddy comes into the picture and gets an extra bonus check put into the joint check account that he doesn't really need because he makes more money than the ex-husband. This is also not equitable. The new husband's income is NEVER taken into consideration and it should be.

Now those are the facts

Then the best thing to do is FIGHT for child support.

I know a few single dads, life is hard for them but the rewards are great.

Best of luck to you.

Deeg,
Why dont you fake your own death?

Question.

If the father has shared custody of the children does he have to pay child support? And if not why don't more men fight for shared/joint custody vs visitation rights.

The man only has to pay minimal for 50/50 custody if he is making more money than the mother. It is a kind of an offset. The courts normally don't like joint physical custody for young children as it is extremely difficult for kids to bounce back and forth between parents....they look to what's best for the kid not whether the father is trying to get joint custody in order to avoid support payments.

On top of the home equity/401k/car/jewelry,etc.etc.
Just wondering if any of the states put a
$$$ Value to what US Citizenship is worth.

Blazers even tho this is true, still think a lot of men don't even try to get joint physical custody, we just assume that the mother gets gets custody and we pay child support. I know I was stupid in my last divorce I just wanted out and tried to be a good father and gave her what ever child support she wanted.

You're probably not going to want to hear this, but here's my "Theory of Conservation of Emotional Inertia":

Getting a person out of a marriage or relationship is like getting a rocket ship out of a gravity well. There must be some significant energy used to perturb the orbit, otherwise the inertia just sends you back to the same old circle.

In the case of a rocket ship, it's a giant fiery blast of rocket power. In the case of a relationship, it's a big blast of emotion. This emotion gets converted into "active" (kinetic) emotion, and "passive" (potential) emotion.

The form is usually an outpouring of love (to get into orbit) or some set of negative emotions (to get out of orbit).

You can say, calmly, that "We want this to be an amicable split," or that "I have no desire to get emotional about this." But you're wrong. Until you light off those big honkin boosters, you're stuck in orbit.

With that in mind, BE PREPARED. You're going to hate her, and she's going to hate you. The current situation will pertain until you generate enough thrust to get out of orbit.

So don't fall for this crap about "try for a 50/50 split, yada yada yada". Instead, go for the throat: You want a divorce. You want the house. You want custody of the kids. Your soon-to-be-ex wife is a lousy, unqualified mother who can't be trusted with a spatula, never mind children.

Frankly, it would be easier to have her killed (and cheaper, in the long run). But there's the kids to think of. So get yourself an attack lawyer. If you live in a small town, then you want to find out the two or three best lawyers in town and HIRE THEM ALL. (I'm as serious as a case of the clap, here: hire them and tell them you're choosing a divorce team. Ask them to write up a recommendation and give you a quote for further services. If you do this right around the time you file for divorce, you may get lucky with conflict of interest rules.)

The point is, once you've decided (as you obviously have) that you're going to go through a divorce, you have to commit yourself to winning it. You WON'T win it, because you've got a penis and the judge will penalize you for that. But if you play to win, you at least won't get too hosed over.

For God's sake, don't play to 'break even'.

Dem Cynical Gnomes

Your missing one point...the types of lawyers you're talking about charge $350 an hour and will eat away at every living cent you have left over...which means half of your assets and income goes to the wife and the other half to the lawyers....that's where your wrong. The attitude necessary to come out even or ahead in a divorce is definately attack but good lawyers is only one facet of the case. Who is the judge? Is the lawyer known for running up fees or trying to make an agreement under the confines of community property laws first? Many top lawyers avoid settlement conferences altogether as it impedes their ability to earn and bill outrageous fees...now that is advice coming from a divorce attorney...doesn't get any more objective than that.

How 'bout the strategy of hiding assets for a few years and then getting HER to make the first move? Does that make a difference, who asks for the divorce?

Like, just be a royal shit-head toward her for the next twenty-four months or so, refuse to fuck her, tell her she's ugly ("no, honey, it's not the dress that makes you look fat, it's YOUR FAT ASS that makes you look fat"). Meanwhile, develop a "fascination" with EBay and sell lots of stuff on it, pretending you're just browsing the auctions rather than participating in them. When something goes missing from your house, just shrug, and if she must know about a price for a sale, quote her half of what you got. Deposit proceeds in hidden numbered overseas accounts.

Pretend you got a severe pay cut. Deposit the difference. Pretend the boat was wrecked. Sell it and deposit the money. Sell all her shoes, then let the new dog loose on a few remnants of the rattiest ones. Deposit the money. Steal and sell her jewelry, make a police report claiming a break-in, deposit the money.

Seems reasonable to me. But do you have the acting skills, and the long-term stomach for it?

Yawn. Everyone, please take note how boring the board has become since Turk's expulsion.

May we now reconsider his participation on this board? Anyone with any doubt please start reading this thread from the top once more.

Thanks

GCL

Hey, Karl Malden is fascinating.

I think GCL is due for another trip to exotic locales. I simply can't believe that he went to Rapid City and didn't visit the Black Hills. What the hell was he thinking?

Gnome of Zurich:

I was enjoying your astronomy analogy until you got to the killing part.

Dongringo:

Let me put in my 2 cents. As a disclaimer, I have never been through a divorce since I never had the prerequisite, but I have seen some close friends go through divorces. OK, maybe that makes it my 1 cent then .

Your priority should be to protect your own happiness rather than to effect your wife's "deserved" misery. The bitterness left by an ugly divorce can scar a person for life. This is something that is ignored in the heat of the battle all too often.

Take a deep breath and get whatever you can according to the law of the land as amickably as possible and move on. I am not giving advice for the cheering crowd. I am giving advice to you. Good luck.

Guys, this is like reading a nightmare story. It is my personal belief that most of us would marry in order to have a family which essentially means sons and daughters (preferably sons because girls are so much trouble).

Anyways, my theory is this, hire a surrogate mother. I read they cost 20,000 dollars a western country. So it must be much cheaper in other, less civilized countries. It is also my personal belief that hiring a surrogate mother to take our sperm and give us a child is better than adoption. Why? because the child is our own blood. It is also way cheaper than a divorce.

Oooh dont forget the bonus of hiring a surrogate mother. You can keep mongering with no nuptial attachements.

Mr. Blazers, please comment on availability of surrogate mothers and their legality. Thank you.

GCL: Turk5555, the serial monogamist, is dead. Get over it.

I just scanned this thread and thought I'd relate how I scammed my ex. I hired a lawyer to write up the marriage dissolution agreement saying that the 1/2 of the $40K I had saved during my 8 year marriage (many years ago) would be paid to my wife in monthy increments as alimony payments.

hehehehe

She hired a lawyer to read the agreement and he signed it saying he had advised her, and she signed it.

So her half of the community property (no real property, just savings) was paid to her as alimony and I got to deduct it from my taxes.

And, I had a statement in the agreement that I would keep all the stock I owned in a private company, which later was purchased by a public company.

We were both very happy with this amicable agreement :-)

LDvee
Brilliant
But who was her lawyer? Can I hire him for my ex?

Actually, I just reviewed the agreement and the way it went is that my wife knew I had about 40K in savings. So my lawyer wrote it up as $4K was an "Equalization Payment" to equalize the division of community property and $16K was done in $500 per month spousal support. So my ex figured she was getting $20K. I guess her lawyer asked her if she was OK with that and she said yes. There was also a clause in the agreement that each of us would pay our own lawyers and he probably knew she didn't have any money of her own so he took the path that if she was OK with it, he was.

The keeping the stock as my own is where her lawyer really fucked up.

The bottom line is hire a lawyer to write up the dissolution agreement to your favor and see if it flys. I thought for sure I'd have to split up the stock, legally half was hers, in reality she didn't deserve a dime. She actually was a hinderance, not a help. But that's another story.

"I got to deduct it from my taxes."


Does anyone know if spousal support is still tax deductible?

LdVee, it wasn't so much that your lawyer did anything ingenious(albeit not explaining the agreement or clarifying the agreement a bit unethical), it's just that you were fortunate enough that she had an idiot or lazy attorney who just wanted to sign, settle and get the fuck out...big mistake. If she feels that her attorney was negligent in explaining the agreement to her then she could get the order set aside under rule CCP407b if it is timely.

While not exactly responsive to DG's original question, the best approach is prevention: don't marry in the first place. But if you do, do as I did: marry a woman with more money than you who is proud and would never consider taking a dime from someone else when her earning capacity is so high. My divorce cost me 50% of court costs, period.

Bwana
The more i get to know you, the more I realize that you should be offering Hombre Apprenticeships. I will pay to be your first client. Can you kindly begin my tutelage immediately following my divorce? Anywhere in Latin America would be fine. I'll write you a blank check for the tuition.

Thank you Sensei

DonGrasshopper

(Message edited by DonGringo on June 14, 2004)

Reytj
I can tell you from sad personal experience that spousal support is definitely tax deductible. Child support is not .

Khun Mor

Thanks for answering my query.

Reytj

Deeg; How goes the divorce war?



That's not your old ride is it?

I wish I could tell ya how it's going. One thing's for sure though, if she doesn't smarten up and start listening to my settlement offers, it'll all go to the lawyers, the forensic accountants and the loose women in my life

Thanks for asking

Dongringo, any update? Did she decide to listen (not likely) or did you wind up in trial?