I just noticed that sour taste that has been in my mouth since 1998 when the USA got their butt kicked is gone. Viva Estados Unidos!!!

The USA has got to clean up their mess covering corner kicks as strength of Germany is in the air.
I would put back Mathis over Wolff and keep same midfield. Not sure whether to use Hejduk or Lewis. As Hejduk just kicks ball as far away as he can while Lewis does try to play some soccer.
Germans can shoot from 35 yards with Hamman and Ziege, USA needs another strong game from Friedel. Jancker is one huge sob, who is going to cover him? Germans play 3-5-2, Donovan and Mathis can create problems, Linke is not the fastest defender.
Still Germans heavy favorite, probably will win 2-0 but I am hoping for very humid night.
USA cannot give up any free kicks like they did today as Germans are too lethal with Ballack and co.
Man it does sound like a mismatch on fri am.
Getting bragging rights norte americano style is like winning the wc as far as i am concerned.

YT
You're right, this is a rematch from 1998, Germany-USA. Go USA, the Mannschaft stops here...

I actually sat through an entire Soccer match. I have to say it was pretty exciting.

At around 10 this evening, I'm outside, and I hear a bunch of yelling, honking horns and noise coming from up the street, so I jump in my car to check it out. About 2 blocks away I see a crowd of about 200 Mexicans waving flags, screaming and carrying on. So I think, "Oh, Mexico must have won the game." I come back to find out the damn match had not even started! Who the fuck celebrates like that before the match even starts?? I took that as a slap in the face, as obviously they were just trying to mock the USA.

Oh well, 2-0 USA, bitches. I went out at the end of the game with the intention of blowing my car horn up and down the street they had been on, but the damn cops were out in force, obviously anticipating a riot had Mexico won. I'm glad the US won just to avoid the riots. This all happened in friggin Tustin ... I can only imagine the scene in Santa Ana or L.A.

What a bunch of dirty players the Mexican team had. Once they knew they would not win they started in with the cheap shots.

-Superman-

It's amazing the United States can even keep the World Cup games close, much less win a few. All our best athletes go on to play Football, Baseball and Basketball ... Soccer pretty much gets what's left over. These other countries send most of their best to play Soccer.

Maybe this is why our Women's team can compete, considering the limited professional sports opportunities for women in this country.

-Superman-

hi guys
Well We hit plaza fiesta for the football game.
Me and my novia watched it from outsite MP and then found T.G. El Fuego and hung out with What3ver and his buddy.
it was funny as hell watching these guys cheer for the USA and why not they played a great game.
There was 1 or 2 others cheering for the USA here.
Outside the clubs were plenty of young vatos but didnt stick around too see the aftermath.
Most likely nothing happened since there was lots of Police around.
My girl blamed me for everytime the Usa team scored or held its defense up.

Right before the game the cars were paraded around Plaza rio , one loser fell off a truck and nearly stabbed himself with his flag.
He wasnt hurt that bad and got back on the truck.

Centro TJ was dead and i didnt see a single whitey after the game.
Police were everywhere.
Not becuase of the Game but because they were looking for Sampson.

I didnt go home with Sweetie pie tonight and walked home from Rev.
No whiteys were killed while i walked home.

nice meeting you What3ever even tho you hurt my wittle feelings-lol

take care
Milkman -who was told today that he looks just as white as the next man
All my Mexican girlfriends beg to differ -

What the HELL is FIFA thinking, putting a Portugese ref in the game with the team that eliminated Portugal? Is that the same idea as the Spanish ref in the game that will decide who plays against Spain? And gee what a surprise, those are the two refs who gave the most cards at the entire Cup. I felt the first 1/3 of the 2nd half the ref was ENTIRELY homer for Mexico.

That having been said, our five yellows just about equals the missed penalty for O'Brien's (or was it Berhalter's, as per BBC?) handball.

Sanneh: brilliant
Friedel: should protest his yellow, ref didn't understand that ball had been SHOT at him so he kicked it away as a deflection / defense / reaction, not as a time-wasting move
Agoos: absence not noted. Asymmetrical arrangement (2 def mids on L; 1 on R) worked, confused Mexico.
Mastroeni: stepped up his game.
Donovan: blew the clincher, goal #3. Could have been on the leading scorers list for a while.
Lewis: better going forward than backwards.
Jones: didn't get goaded into retaliation (almost). That's amazing.
Reyna: God incarnate.
First goal: watch a longer replay on your VCR. It starts from a quick free-kick at mid, a BACKHEEL. Fooled everyone.
Ruis Hernandez: good sub, smart coaching.
Marquez: off his game marginally.
Borgetti: was handled in the air. Never well-served.
Cuauhtemoc Blanco: shit for brains. When the game doesn't go his way, he more so than most of the Seleccion gets put off and starts fouling pointlessly.

I think Mexico looked kind of like they did against Italy, which makes me very proud of our USA boys. They beat MEX in a fair fight. Winning ugly, yes, but winning legit. If anything MEX had the ref on their side. I think what I missed from the ITA MEX game, observing as I was Italy's foolish defense of the Mexico lead, was the fact that Mexico pounded and pounded against that Italian bunker and didn't score again. Just like versus USA.

Germany: oh well we're really dead meat. The plan mentioned above (to hold them in the first fifteen and then all hands to the pumps) is fair enough. But going out in the Quarterfinals to Deutschland is nothing to sneeze at. I'm disappointed Germany will have such a subjectively easy Quarter, relative to their eventual Semifinal opponents, who probably will have just survived the ITA ESP match, the Cup's first major bloodbath.

Oh, and USA isn't the biggest surprise of this World Cup. Senegal is. But we'll take what part of the limelight we can get. Now, if Belgium beats Brazil, THAT will be a surprise!

Lotsa cinderella teams in the cup - it is hard to pick who is the biggest one out Korea, Japan, USA and Senegal.

At this point, I think that Brasil will take it all (you have to root for the home of termas). Senegal continues to amaze me.

From the NYTimes -
Then John O'Brien punched a corner kick with his hand, and the Mexicans argued vehemently for a penalty kick, but got nothing. Later, Aguirre groused that 40,000 fans had seen the foul, and only referee Vitor Melo Pereira of Portugal had not. "It was a freak play," O'Brien said. "It was a situation where you're trying to mark your man and someone comes up underneath you and hits your arm. I didn't do it on purpose."

Americans got a break but are still being abused by referees for 4 consecutive games. They get no respect.
Senegal a surprise, didn't they reach the African Cup losing on pk's? All their players play in Europe. Their best player no 9 is being signed by Liverpool, top 10 richest club in the world.
USA is the cinderella team, no doubt about it. Japan and Korea are playing at home.
Senegal played really well against Sweden, could have gone either way.
USA-Mexico game was over when Donovan scored on header. Then Hernandes took a dive in penalty box, referee made right call, game over.
Yes had referee seen handball, game would have been totally different.
I am surprised by Donovan, O'Brien, even Reyna now. They all seem to play above their head, very efficient, 2 goals on 4 targeted shots and minor players play their part.
Germans are no dummy, look for them to foul Donovan very hard at start of game to set tempo.
I hope USA is the home team so they can pick white jersey so Germans would have to wear green jersey, somehow less intimidating...

F. Spanish prevented me from having a perfect weekend but Brazil-England looks like a heavyweight bout. As far as I know, only second meeting in wc. This is a rematch from 1970 group play 1-0 affair, Gordon Banks making fantastic save on Pele's header.
I did see a pushing foul on the Belgium goal but that was very subtle. Belgium could have easily won that game but what a goal by Rivaldo...Golasso
I am still picking Brazil to beat England 2-1.

Well I guess its high time that Mexico finally got a hand job from the US

Book_guy was right whay kind of shit-for-brains FIFA official assigned a Portugese referee to a team that defeated them. But I'm really glad some of the US players had the decency to point out to the referee that he was missing a really good game. The game was so badly refereed, I would be surprised if that Portugese ref saw another WC game, much less refed one.

Althought the result may have surprised some, several of us on this board knew that the US has had Mexico's number for a while now. Josh Wolff and the speed of the US has always bothered the Mexicans.

Another thing to point ot is the US "millstone" defense. Time and time again Friedel or the US backline would hammer the ball downfield. To the uninitiated this may look simply like a loss of possesion if Mcbride or another US striker could not get to the ball. But once Mexico took the ball and went into its ball-control offence, it would have to go through a gauntlet of US defenders. This had the effect of, in-fact, wearing down Mexico. After the last gasp offensive thrust at about 80 minutes, the Mexican offense and defence started slowing down big-time. As I pointed out earlier, there will be a lot of games won simply on the basis of fitness and not necessarily on style or form.

Before anybody thinks that the US might as well not show up for the Germany game, it is nice to remember that before the 4-2 thrashing Germany gave the US about 3 months ago, IN GERMANY, the US had beaten the Germans three straight times, including twice in one week in 1999 at the Conferderations Cup, a serious competition which Germany fielded many of the players on this WC team. If there was one european team that respects the US the most, it has to be Germany. Conversely Germany play in a style much like Poland only better!!. The US is lucky in that they can chalk up the loss to Poland as a learning experience, and hopefully the US won't be in remedial school against Germany.

I do think that Germany has way too many offense weapons they can use against the US.

Contrary to some opinions the US defends very well on corners and set pieces. Unfortunatly they allow a lot of them, and the law of averages does catch up to them. The US best chance is to use its speed up the flanks. Germany is , next to Poland, one of the "slower" team the Us will face. If they can capitalize on the few strengths the US has, it might get a good result. On the other hand it might be a long afternoon for the US too.

OG

Germany's new change uniform is grayish-black tops and white shorts, I think.

England and Brasil have met 20 times overall, but only 3 times in World Cup play, 58 62 70. Guadalajara 70 is the big famous one, of course.

Against Belgium Rivaldo's golasso was deflected on its way in, and otherwise Belgium gave them a great game. I think England can definitely give Brasil a fair game. The Brasilian defense is porous and confused; but can England's defense handle Rivaldo and Ronaldo, not to mention the fleeting midfielders? Can ANYONE's defense handle them?

And yes, Americans are indeed receiving unfair refereeing. As I heard, the Mexicans think the ref wasn't calling ENOUGH fouls against USA. HAhahahahaha. They dove and dove and dove and dove, mostly in the context of the PORTUGUESE (hint hint) ref approving of it. Their game-plan was to histrionically fret shin-and-stud-wise. Arena is a great reader of the game, a wise tactician. But so is EVERY member of the Germany squad.

I still think Italy can take Spain and Germany, and probably Brasil ... defense wins Cups.

Termas girls like futebol too ...

http://pile.filepile.org:8080/text/brazils_womens_football_team.html

Christ BookG....greastest link I've ever seen, thanks man.

I watched the match at the Hong Kong bar, and the local Mexicans took their loss in stride. They knew they were outplayed the whole game. Some of them even got pissed off at their own players, Blanco and a bit of Borgetti, for trying to hard to pick on the young and inexperienced Americans instead of concentrating on playing their games. So for all you Mexican bashers out there, just enjoy the game. It's a sport and it's the biggest sport even in the world for god sake!!! What's next for you guys? Italian descent or Brazilian descent???

Arena looked like a genius last night, and I hope he'll play Hejduk. I hope he will figure out some ways to deal with the lighting Germans' ariel attacks. Klose and Janker will exploit our weakness on corner kick coverage with their barrage of headers, but I hope I'm wrong.

I presume the comment re: Aguirre playing Luis Hernandez (much less putting his short, slow, ancient ass on the team over De Nigris -- gotta plug the Monterrey homeys!!!) was the dryest of humor.

Blanco's a punk who will hopefully get his the next time around where it doesn't mean shit. It was great to watch him melt down while the Americans just backed off at his pussyish challenges. The head butt at the end was chickenshit too.

I don't like seeing a whole country of Mexicans depressed as shit as their whole world comes crashing down, but the dirty way they went out made the end result as satisfying an end to a spórting event as I have seen in a long time.

Man, one more win would be REALLY cool, and I would prefer ANYONE winning to the Germans. Whatever, it'll be fun to watch.

BTW, a drunken stripper called at 2:30 in the morning to see if I was happy we were winning. I told her I'd be a lot happier if she came over after the game. She didn't quite make it... Still, a GREAT night!

book_guy
Are you sure about 58 and 62 England playing Brazil, that's amazing as these are the brazilian wc winning years.
The great thing about Rivaldo's goal was not the shot in itself but I believe he controlled the ball with his back to the goal then turned around and volleyed it pretty hard. Ronaldinho move was excellent blowing by the belgian defenders. Brazil has too much firepower but of course England can win with Michael Owen. I'd pay $200 to watch that game. I did not see much defense flap today except guy got overjumped on nullified goal.
I hate defense, let the Koreans take care of Italians. I love to see them cry...
Mexico was so arrogant, talking about matchup with Germany with Germans having 2 extra days rest. Mexico has never produced a world class player and for that matter has never won a wc game in 1/8 outside its borders.
The Germans lack a leader on their team, it is feasable ...
All the termas garotas love futebol, their eyes start to glow when you start talking trash soccer. I could sense a certain national despair when talking to them but heck they are going to win the whole damn thing again...I have to say no nation comes close to Brazil, they seem to produce good teams every four years no matter what.
It's so funny at how the international press sees the American but at the end, oh shit these guys are fast and that Donovan is pretty good.

I know soccer about as much as superdud knows baseball, which means I know nothing. And I have a question.

I know that every sport has different reasons for the "home field/court advantage", but what are the basis of the home advantage in international soccer matches? Is that because of the crowd support? Or is it because of the effect of the climate, traveling or food to players? Or is it because the refs like to please the crowd?

thought this might stir up a little discussion....

Football VS Soccer


Football guys are bigger... Soccer players don't wear pads.

Football is like chess....Soccer is like checkers but completely fluid.

Football fans can be rude...Soccer fans can be dangerous.

Football has pretty cheerleaders...Soccer has no case here.

Football players have corn rows...Soccer players have dred locks.

Football players are in great shape...Soccer players in incredible shape.

A LONG TD GIVES YOU A BONER!...A goal is entertaining.

I like big strong built women who know how to wrestle and have hot blood
(that has nothing to do with this but so what)

Football gives you time to think....Soccer you go with the flow.

Football has flags...Soccer has cards (???).

Football game time is strict..Soccer they add minutes to end of game.

Football you can run to toilet quick..Soccer you have to wait till halftime.

Football is capitalism...Soccer is socialism (maybe that's why it's gaining popularity in the U.S.)

I've never watched soccer till now. I enjoy watching us advance. Lets beat all those 3rd world countries and send them back to their factories to make shoes for us. THEN lets beat all the communists!! USA..USA..USA...WE WENT TO THE MOON! WE OWN THE MOON....IT'S OURS!!! WE RULE THE WORLD! LET'S TAX THE WHOLE WORLD BECAUSE WE RULE THE WORLD!!! God Bless America!

borrowed from the Dawgvent....

Can someone explain to me why a local TV sports announcer in NY said "we beat the heavily-favored Mexican team"? Hadn't we won four of the last five matchups with them?

A May be showing his ignorance about soccer but will be tuned in Friday morning kind of guy,

Out-of-Towner

Now I am shocked seeing how Italians lost a game they pretty much controlled. The referee from Ecuador did a good job except for second card on Totti, way out of line there.
Level of soccer is not that great but teams are playing hard.
Brazil-England 2-2 Brazil advances on pk's.
Germany - USA 2-1
Senegal - Turkey 2-1
Korea - Spain 1-0

Could this be right, the weather in Ulsan is predicted to jump by 5 deg to 88 on fri. 0% precipitation. It was 81 at game time between italy and korea.
Italy has bad karma since 1990, too unreal.
USA bunkers to survive first 20 min then counters in second half to win in very humid night hopefully. Like the ropadope Ali-Foreman.

Italy -- well fucking well. They didn't put the game away when they had the chances, and then paid the price. It was almost a satisfying come-uppance, except for the fact that I hate to see a squadra of such talent bow out early. They could definitely have given Spain, USA, or Germany a good game of it. Can Korea?

I disagree with the disallowing of Tommasi's goal late in extra time (the offsides was not offsides) so that means four disallowed and three scored for Italy. I disagree with Totti's second card, but frankly that had little bearing on the preceding 110 minutes of ineffective play. Up to today I had liked Italy, until they determinedly stuck to being just like the Italy of old for the entire game. You cannot, as a woman near and dear to me says, expect to build the Eternal City on a soccer field. Scores change; tactics change; opponents change; time moves forward. Trappatoni alone has failed to note this human truism, and therefore deserves to lose. Korea was at times weaker, at times stronger, but what the heck, I love their fans.

(In fact, in the battle of Korean versus Japanese fans, the Koreans win hands down, and the Japanese left their team despairing of support at the most crucial of moments. I'm hoping Korea advances one more than Senegal just so I can say the Dutch went further than the French at this Cup. Hiddink.)

Turkey has holes all up and down their line-up. Japan failed to try to capitalize, and was actually not physically fit enough to play the entire game. I think Turkey is decidedly the better side, but I have no clue how they'll do against Senegal.

England - Brazil. (My stats for previous match-ups are from Sky Sports News broadcast.) As long as the Poms can keep the ball in midfield -- attacking midfield -- and not let the R and R duo move freely through their own half, they can keep it to a game. I think Brazil's defense is quite weak, and we've never seen them against consistent attacking ball. Turkey-China-Costa-Rica-Belgium, as opposed to Nigeria-Argentina-Sweden-Denmark ... hmm, makes ya go hmm. Call this game the free-kick special.

Senegal - Turkey. I have no predictions. Both are untried waters. The Turks may get into disciplinary trouble. But then again, so may Senegal, if they grow excessively exuberant. Turkey certainly was superior to Japan. Call this game the red-card special.

Spain - Korea. I'd love to see the Koreans ride this wave of support and optimism out of the Italy match and on to another upset, but I can't see it. In Korea's favor, they handled Portugal, Poland, and Italy, all organized European teams with strong strikers, so they are experienced in dealing with such, while Spain has seen no Asians (not that there is a side comparable to Korea in this Cup). But in Spain's favor, the attack is clicking, the defense is clicking, and when it isn't (they wilt for significant periods, kind of go into a vague fugue state) the Koreans (as displayed against all their opponents) will likely fail to take advantage of it. Spain is a group of stellar performers who are almost a team; Korea is a team of weaker performers. I think Spain will win handily.

Germany - USA. If we can hunker in a bunker and survive the blitz, maybe we can sneak a counterattack ("contragulpear"! I'm learning Spanish since I don't watch ESPN / ABC any more). If I were Arena, I'd pick the Mathis / Wolff combo instead of the Donovan / McBride one, since it's silly to try to out-head the monstrous Germans. Then again, we might need McBride to defend and try to ... out-head the Germans. Jancker is a huge beast. Maybe Beasley can use his weight against him LOL. That's a pair-up I'd like a photo of, great white whale Moby Dick and tiny dark bug the Black Widow. Germany by 3 is just as likely as USA by 1.

The Germans by 3 gives them an easier Quarterfinal, and much more rest, than their eventual opponents, whether Spain or Korea, so I see them in the Final handily. It's not the greatest German team ever, but Völler has them together and effective. Gee what a surprise: an effective, organized Mannschaft. What did Alan Ball say? "It's a funny old game. 22 men, brightly colored shirts, 90 minutes, and at the end the Germans win." It could be. If not, USA as a Semifinalist would have me weeping for joy.

Brazil looks great, IF they can defend. Against Michael Owen we will have our first chance to see whether or not they can. I put them in the Final as well, as long as they can get past England.

Oh, one more prediction. FIFA will assign two English linesmen and one Mexican referee to the USA Germany match.

I'm not a soccer fan.

I was in TJ (Zona Norte) on Thursday (after Mexico tied Italy 1-1) and on Monday (after Mexico lost to the US 2-0). On Thursday, the entire Zona Norte was in a good mood. There was a red, white and green burro outside of Adelitas, and there were celebrations in the streets.

On Monday, it was as if the entire Mexican nation was in deep depression, its heart broken and ripped out. I realized that it might be a little risky being a gringo in TJ on Monday, but what the hell, I was horny. Javier at Al Capone's was despondent, like everyone, so we talked and he said that he felt like the Mexicans must've been paid to lose or something -- they didn't play with heart they way they did against Italy.

Speed, speed and more speed. No I'm not talking about some well-known chicas, but the US futbol team. IF they are to beat Germany they must get behind their defense, either through the middle or most likely flanks. I expect to see Wolff and Beasley and maybe, in the first half, Mathis, as he seems to have a good touch against them. The US held them for a half in their "warm-up " friendly in April, then Germany figured out their weakness and opened the floodgates.

The US defense is much more robust now than then and the game is played on nuetral/foreign soil, all plusses for the US but if they give up many corners or free kick, I expect it will be all over in the first half.

The longer the game goes scoreless or low scoring, the better it plays into the US plans. The weather will be hotter, and the as Germay hasn't played a really fast team, fitness will play a part.

I won't second guess Arena, but I'm sure he'll have some interesting roster changes. I think the US atititude is good in this one, they know/believe they can beat Germany. It will be interesting to see how the US react if they go a goal down.

I know for certain if the US tries to defend a one goal lead by bunkering down, theywill not succeed against the Germans, like they did against Mexico, Portugal and Korea.

Ciao, Italia... again. Korea is making less and lesss mistakes as they gain in confidence, A very dangerous team for Spain.

Brazil is a much better team than Argentina, as they English will learn. True the Brazilian defense is suspect, but offensively and speed wise they are way over England's head. Still, if England can keep the score close, we all know funny thing can happen.

Turkey is a well organized team especially on defense, thier offence may leave much to be desired though. This will be a good game to watch, but I expect Turkey to prevail.

31/2 European teams, one African, one Asian, one from South America and one from North America are left. Finally a real WORLD Cup.

OG

My comment is a little dated but -
Many analysts were favoring Mexico over the USA despite the USA's 4 wins in 5 games. Mexico had a hard time finding their best guys. I believe that they played over 50 different players during qualifying but they finally assembled a very good team. They played very well in the first round. The USA was a bit shakey - great against Portugal but we got whipped pretty good by Poland. So, in many eyes Mexico was the favorite.

Another similar story is Brasil. I think they played close to 70 players in the qualifying games. They are the team to beat to win it all. They have a great offense.

Now if the USA can beat Germany, they will earn some real respect. The USA's performance is going to help player development. The best club football in the world is played in Europe & the European clubs have seen some of the talented players on the USA team & will give many of the players who aren't currently in Europe a chance to play there. Better competition leads to better players.

USA USA USA.

Ahn the Korean who scored winner against Italy just got cut from his employer, Perugia in Italy.
People outside the USA are a little bit too crazy, taking this thing too seriously. I say let the USA win the wc.

Even reaching the Quarters is a big deal, most European clubs know this. YoungTom is correct in that this result in the World Cup will help immesurably.

It is also a windfalll for the MLS, When no media corporations were willing to pick up the original 110+ million for broadcast right for the WC, the MLS and Anschulz, Ent.,stepped in, bought the rights foe a paltry 50 mill and repackaged ans resold to ESPN. If the US would have tanked and go out the first round, the MLS might have barely recouped its investment, but since the US has reached the quarters, viewing has soared and the MLS and ESPN should see a good profit.

The MLS wins also in that, with this US showing, the "book value" of all its players increases substantially. While the MLS does not like to sell its best players, they realize it sometimes it is in their best interest.

Last year Mcbride played several months for Preston North End, a English 1st Div club in the hunt for a Premeirship spot. McBride scored several goals before the freakish blood-clot injury forced his return to the US. Preston was really trying to acquire him, but the 2 mill+ offer PNE was offering was felt as beiing to low, the MLS was hold out for 2.5-3 mill. Now the talk is that Everton may be willing to part with up to 4.5 mill for his rights. Langdon Donovan will most certaninly go back to Beyer Leverkusen after this season. BL will pay the MLS about 3-4 mill. Much less than if they had to acquire him directly, instead of the lend-lease agreement they had with the MLS.

Expect Eddie Lewis and Greg Berhalter, both on the transfer lists of Fulham and Crystal Palace to be picked up immediately.

Clint Mathis, although little seen in this WC, is on the short list of several Europena teams, based on his performance prior to the WC. Even if he doesn't touch the ball in the remaining games, his value will have gone up.

In general, the relative value of the US players on the world market will almost double or triple in value.

OG

OG
I believe Donovan's rights belong to Bayer Leverkusen already so they own his rights outright. But they could sell him for around 10M.
McBride has always beeen good, 3M is quite cheap I would think.
Mathis has been approached by Bayern Munich and Perugia.

Too seriously was when the Columbian player accidently scored a goal for the opposing team a few years ago and they killed him when he got back home.

-Superman-

Do you think Portugal will harbor ill-will toward the S. Korean player who scored the winning goal intheir match. I have heard that Figo and several other players implored the Koreans to go for the tie so they could advance. Fortunatly the Korean player he talked to, who he though spoke English.. didn't. Some Koreans said later that a tie was not in the offing as many beleived that winning their group was important and that they couldn't trust the US to lose.

The MLS was uninterested in accepting Donovan from Bayer Leverkusen on a loan basis. They have a standing policy of not taking loaned player. They can however loan players under contract to other teams.

When Donovan expressed his displeasure of his role at BL and his willingness to get out of his contract or refuse to re-sign later, BL chose to "sell" hin to the MLS with an option to buy out his contract at a later date and at a price to be negotiated.

Under the agreement from the MLS and Beyer Leverkusen, the MLS bought the rights back to Donavan for four years, at the end of that two years BL had the first right of refusal to buy back his contract The end of that two years is at the end of this MLS season unless San Jose releases him early

What is interesting about this contract was that Donavan could refuse this contract had he no reasonable expectation to play on the "Ist team" at BL A "very unusual" contract , but one that has caught the interest of many clubs. It is doubtful that BL would exercise this option and have sit on a reserve team., or loan him out. The option for BL is to buy the player outright with no restrictions so they could turn around and sell him for any amount of money.

Given his play in the WC and his elevated status as starter on a 1/4 final WC team, his price has certainly gone up. The "price to be negotiated" has a botton and a ceiling, but expect that cieling to be lower than if he were an entire free agent or on a free transfer Beyer Leverkusen will probably get a good deal, but then so will the MLS for "grooming" him.

I still don't buy into the German "uber" team. This is essentially the same team that lost 5-1 to England, lost to Finland and Wales, and barely qualified, beating a seriously deplete Ukranian. Beating up on hapless Saudi Arabia, might have made them seem all potent, but they onlt beat Cameroon 2-0 and tied Ireland before an awful Paraguay Game.

I do think Germany is a confident team, with lots of potential. But it has yet to be really tested and it will be interesting to see what either team does if it goes down a goal early. Is Germany "fragile" like some would believe??

I think the team will look at videos from Germany's recent loses (and wins) to look for weaknesses. For inspiration they only need to look at the Confederation Cup in '99.

OG

OG
This is an average German team, probably worse than 1998 edition. But still favorite over USA.
They have a very average midfield, forwards are better than average. Defense is suspect. Very good keeper.

Beasley is one guy on the USA team that has an amazing upside. Does any European team own his rights?

I personally like seeing the young, talented Americans go to Europe to play as I think that it forces them to raise their game to the next level. After a few years of schooling in the big leagues, then the kids can return to the MLS and show us their stuff.

Latest line at Caliente...USA +350

4th wc match between England and Brazil
1958 0-0 amazing score as highest scoring team ever Brazil 1958
1962 Brazil 3 - England 1
1970 Brazil 1 - England 0
All previous in first round.

Big night tonight while other 1/4s tomorrow are not that exciting.

Go USA...

the book i use has united states +420
germany -210
overtime +220
i really don't like betting the 90 minute line, but i guess this is common in soccer betting or at least world cup betting.

Sampson
Best bet is to put equal money on all three.

Hugh Dallas (Scotland) is the referee for USA game
Mexican is ref for england-brazil.

I can't help but think of the match in the 1998 cup vs. Germany...We played an atrocious first half, but were actually pretty competitive in the second...I'm pretty sure it was 2-0 Germany at the half, and 3-1 at the final whistle...

We lost going forward in the second half of that game, and despite all of the criticism the U.S. side took, I always held that we actually had the better of the play in the final 45 minutes...

This German team is not as strong as that one; the U.S. is definitely better...After their whitewash of Saudi Arabia, Germany has not set the world on fire...

Will the U.S. be able to disrupt Germany's offensive flow?...Is the German defense impregnable?...It broke down more than once against lowly Camaroon but they were saved by their topnotch Goalie and the errant shots of the Camaroon strikers...

More and more, I am sensing upset...Or is it wishful thinking?...

I am officially predicting...Upset...

Go U.S.!!!!...

YoungBrig

well, its 1-0 Germany.. Should be 2-0, but there was a header just off the post.. USA has played an excellent first half, about 50-50 possession, and some great shots on goal by Donavon, but they just couldnt execute... Lets see if USA can keep their composure and tie it up early in the second half...

AGAGAAGAAAAA............. USA misses a header by INCHES.. looks like an inadvertent handball by a german defender... USA has been relentless, getting some quality shots... knocking on the door, just missing.. Still 1-0 germany in the 55 minute...

I don't watch much soccer but I thought the Germany / USA match was very exciting even though we lost. You have to be proud of our guys for a great effort and being able to push a soccer powerhouse to the limit.

Now that I understand soccer better, here's an idea. Since soccer is so big in Mexico, how about expressing your dissatisfaction with a TJ chica's particular action or performance in a manner that she may better understand than your English: as soon as she commits an infraction (like walking too far ahead of you on your way to the hotel or rushing you in the hotel), you pull out the yellow card on her. If she does something unforgiveable (like not delivering what she specifically promised in the bar or being an overall bitch in the hotel after being Miss Sweet in the bar), you pull out the red card.

We can even have a section of CH devoted to cumulative cards by each chica.

A Getting my kicks in kind of guy,

Out-of-Towner

Ootie, I hope you know that coffee just shot out my nose. That is completely hilarious. I'm making the cards as we speak.

Feenish, you feenish- yellow card

double condom trick- red

money up front-warning or yellow

Asking for tip after bad service- red

Stinky pussy-red

Asking for more money for extras after price clearly negotiated= red card and penalty kick to the rear.

Early knock- yellow card to chica, yellow card to towel boy, then tell the towel boy, "No soup for you" upon leaving. Give him a peso as a tip.

Snide comments from peanut gallery as your walking up with chica- automatic red card and immediate banishment from AB for life to guy. If comments said directly to chica in Spanish. Red card for him and all his friends, including life time banishment.

On Athos' strategy of betting even money on all outcomes.

Making hedge bets is almost always a bad strategy. This is because each line has a built-in portion of house cuts, and by betting on all outcomes, you will end up paying house cuts multiple times. Using sampson's bookie's lines, let me show you why this is the case.

Assume you bet $300 using Athos' strategy: you bet $100 on each of the three outcomes.

If the US wins, your profit is $220 (=100+420-300).
If Germany wins, your loss is $152 (=100+48-300).
If overtime, your profit is $20 (=100+220-300).

When you look at these three outcomes, you immediately realize that it is not hot to bet on Germany at all. The reason why people make such a hedge bet is they think they are minimizing the loss.

But this is a false assumption. If you know you will lose $152 even if Germany wins (this is because you bet additional $200 on two other outcomes), then why not simply bet $76 (=152/2) each on the other two outcomes only? Under this scenario, the following is what happens.

If the US wins, your profit is $243 (76+319-152).
If Germany wins, your loss is $152.
If overtime, your profit is $91 (76+167-152).

Compare the profits by this strategy versus those by Athos' strategy. You will make more profits by not betting on Germany at all.

Again, this is very easily explainable. Bookies make money on each bet, and you should be minimizing the number of times you pay house cuts.

i don't bet soccer as a rule. i think i've bet once in my life and lost(us vs china womens game)and i bet the us and it went overtime.
i will hedge on occasion, but only if i can win both bets or if a money line move is so big that the worse case scenario is i break even.
it is often possible to make money line baseball bets--where the worse you can do is break even--at the end of the season. some books will inflate the line by 50 or 60 cents for those teams that are fighting for playoff spots.

one summer i found such a book, but they would only take 3000 per game and i made 2-3 thousand a week for the last 6 weeks of baseball. unfortunately i don't have that connection. if they would have taken big money--i could have retired or got stiffed.

+420
+220
-210
this being the three lines and the three possibilites would be
+220 if americans won
+20 if tie
-152 if germans win
so in essence you would be risking 152 to win 220 at the most and that is not a good proposition.
you be be hoping the americans won and in essence you would be taking a +420 dog and changing them to roughly a +150 dog. any book would have to love that.

By betting on three mutually exclusive outcomes, Athos strategy guaranteed two of the three bets would lose. That's where the problem is.

As I said above, if you skipped betting on Germany, then

+243 if US wins
+91 if tie
-152 if Germany wins

This would have been better than Athos strategy with exactly the same risk as his. There was even a chance of making modest money with tie.

Personally, if I wanted to take a chance on +420 underdog, then I would not waste money on tie or Germany. Then, my best hedging strategy is simply not to put a lot of money on it.

I personallly don't understand any of this betting junk.

But I think that the USA put on a damn good show. They play 5 games & outside of the first 5 minutes of the Poland game; the USA played quality/competive football & were of the more impressive teams in the entire world cup.

http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/en/020621/1/16lj.html

I'm sad that the USA is gone but I hopefully that the USA can build on this CUP and can continue to be as or more competitive in future cups.

I believe only the USA of the teams left could have beaten the Auriverdes.
Semi finals
Brazil 2 - Turkey 0
Korea 1 - Germany 0 in extra time.
Brazil wins final 2-0.
If MLS survives, the USA might win the wc in my life time. I am jumping on the bandwagon.

Somehow I'm not really surprised to see Korea in the WC semi-finals, and should the soccer gods have smiled on the US, they would be too.

Brad Freidel said it earlier: "Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good". I think the Germans can heartily attest to that!!!

The US had a great showing, but I expected that of them. The "Rest of the World" had a great showing, and this is something I have exclaimed on this board for the last several months. When the US fans shouted to the Portugese as they left the feild in defeat "Over-rated" should be the theme for this WC.

Despite having almost half the WC field, almost all the Europeans teams are out. The reasons:

Culture Shock.First WC in Asia. A lot of the teams just were not prepared for the cultural shock, travel, temperature and time changes.

Fitness levels: The Koreans and even the Americans got to where the were, based on extreme fitness levels and sometimes not on great futbol technique. Some of the Euro teams were seen huffing and puffing after the the first 20 minutes. The work rate of the Koreans is phenomenal. If the Germans complaines about the US fitness levels, they will positively be blown away by the Koreans.

Long Euro Seasons. The long Euro seasons didn't allow for many of the european teams much training time together. Some like France tried to cram games in too close to the WC start and paid a big price when certain starters were injured ,and could not start for their teams. A lot of the Euro players were fatigued by they time they got to asia and it showed.

Refereeing. Generally was sub-par in this WC. The only good thing was that virtually every team got jobbed, one way or another. There was generally very little consistency. Some refs allowed a lot of contact, shirtpulling,. etc. Some were vey strict. It think it was just important for coaches and manager to scout the referees as well as the opponents, and adjust their game accordingly. Sad but true.

Futbol has truly advance outside the traditional countries. FIFA, under Blatter, has put a substantial amount of money into developing countries in various soccer programs. It has been payed back big time. It makes you think why the Europenas wanted him out so badly.

Korea over Germany
Brazil over Turkey
Brazil over Korea in WC finals., so that some degree of propriety is restored in this crazy WC.

OG