Throw in the fact that Kurt Warner`s thumb was a problem in the 2002 game, he couldn`t grip the ball like he normally does and couldn`t throw the ball like he normally does.

Those aren`t my words, but the words of the Pats defensive players in interviews weeks after the game. They said they noticed in the 1st quarter that Warner couldn`t grip the ball and they said at that point they would probally win the game.

Gotta work DG.....22 trips in three years slows any business to a halt..even lawyers. Just ignore me a bit until I return to mongering....shit I even had a cancel a trip to Rio in November and I prepaid for the hotels.

I agree that the current Pats team is no match for the 49ers or Steelers of the old days, but they seem much better than the Pats of last year, Brady is beginning to shine as a QB, and is throwing long passes like HOF QBs.

The 49ers of 1994 of course had lost to Dallas the prior few years in the championship game, despite those Pro Bowlers. I was never really sold on their running game, they passed A Lot.

Prediction for Super Bowl 39:

Pats 28, whoever they are playing 10.

I may not watch.

Never sold on their running game? They had Ricky Waters in his prime and he was an excellent pass catcher out of the backfield....unless starting for the pro bowl doesnt warrant a good running back....hmmm

Putting the niners is the same sentence as the ole Steelers is a stretch in terms of a dynasty. Sure perhaps in terms of a particular team's strength that took the field in a given year they were up there...

Dynasty has nothing to do with how u perceive domination, HOF, ASs on a given team. It has to do with winning.

Only 1 team in the history of the NFL has won 3 superbowls in a 4 year stretch-- Aikman's Cowboys. If the pats win this year, they will of managed to do the same. Of course the Steelers 4 wins in a 6 year span defines dynasty, however they had the two year drought in the middle of back to back wins...

Regardless, not bad company for the Pats to be mentioned in the same breath as.

By the way, the ONLY team to go to 4 straight superbowls is Kelleys Bills. As you all know they were 0/4. By far the greatest team NOT to win the ring. To bad for them there was a "wide right" and then they had to go against one of the all time best-- a few times. Now that SUCKS.

Waters was an awesome runner, not to mention he usually had 60+ catches outa the backfield for them!@

In nearly every poll of sports writers, coaches, and atheletes, the 85 bears were the #1 team of all time. My pats didn't fare all that well against them in the SB

I rooted hard for Kelly never to win a ring and the same for Elway and Marino. Well at least two of my rivals came up empty handed.

Trust me it sucked having to root for the cowgirls but I did like UCLA Aikman.

My brother was a big cowboy fan as a kid and that is where I developed my dislike for them.

Any one of the niners SB teams is better than the Patriots.

The Eagles will put an end to all this Patriots dynasty bullcrap talk. Even if they win it is still a joke. Few people respect them as such.

Blazers do you want to bet a lunch or dinner on the game ? I would ask Maximus but I would feel bad having him dish out for a nice meal.
I would rather have you buy me dinner instead
Pats to win
What do you say ?>


Only when I leave New England the sports gets better
But I go to San Diego and the Chargers better

max--

u just don't get it... Good luck on your wagers anyhow.

milk--
I'm actually a little uneasy bout this game. I like the Pats when everyone is talking about how great their opponent is. This time around no-one is giving Phili a shot-- I don't like it. Phili has a tough D, great QB, good running attack, and solid on both sides of the line. If Donavon is ON, and plays the way he's capable of, anythnig can happen.

Dm I hear what you are saying brother but it is Playoff experience where Brady and his team excells.
See you guys after the game, good luck to all that are betting

Wonder what Silver is doing ?
he already lost all his bets against me this year. I should have added this to the mix!

Yes Dm

You are right

I just don't get how the Pats won so many close games.

And yes you are right I only respect them for the past two weeks period.

They should have never beat the Raiders and should have never beat the Rams
Pure luck those two games.

I am sure that beating the Colts and Steelers this year was just luck, too.

Explorer do you ever read anything before you pop off?

IN ALL MY POSTS I HAVE STATED THE ONLY GOOD GAMES THE PATS Played were vs the colts and Steelers.

However the Pats just got lucky again as TO's doctor will not approve him to play in the Super Bowl

That sucks as it is not fun to watch a game where one of the teams stars is out.

One man does not make a team but with TO and their TE injured it really changes things up.

Damn this sucks.

Blazers,
Where are the hot Super bowl parties with the hot babes?

Actually DM, I still think the 95 Niners team was the best in NFL history and I'm a die hard Steelers fan. The best Steeler team was actually their 76 season team in which they had the most shutouts in NFL histoy and had 2 1,000 yard rushers in Harris and Bleier....unfortunately, Pitt's RB's were both hurt before the playoffs started or they would have given the Raiders another yearly playoff ass whipping. I dont even consider the 1985 Bears in the top 5, even though most critics follow it. The Bears D was one of the best assembled but their offense was below average at best. They had an aging Payton, an average QB and no receivers to speak of..only one pro bowler on the line as well.

Milky....there is now way I would bet against Tom Brady...he is Joe Montana but with a stronger arm. But anytime your in San Diego, inbox me and dinner is one me.

Maxy, I know one in Pacific Beach that is huge and loaded with strippers...if your into that kind of thing...inbox me

Actually, DM, I think the Eagles will give good game. Their front line is HUGE, and no one has really handled them well all year, TO being out hurts, but they still have an incredible receiving corps.

Having said that I would point out the report by ESPN that Brady was in his hotel room sick as a dog right before the Steeler game, with a high fever, and an acute lack of sleep, and he still picked apart my Steelers, so I would not bet against the Pats.

I would also give an edge to the Pats in the coaching are, and in the SB this carries a lot of weight.

Val, I think your right. Games are won on both sides of the line usually assuming there are no major blunders by either.



(Message edited by donmarco on January 26, 2005)

Championship game results;

Philly -4 over Atl --- won 8 units

Philly -3 1st half --- won 4 units

4-4 team parlays --- lost 4 units

Pitt to win SB (+220)--- lost 5 units

WON --- 3 UNITS
Previous --- lost 16.4 units

Nfl Playoffs to Date --- lost 13.4 units

Futures still alive --- Pats to win the SB (+300) --- 5 units to win 15 units

Preseason picks;

Vikes to win SB (20-1) --- LOST 2 units

Jets to win AFC (18-1) --- LOST 1 unit

week 11 futures - Pitt to win SB (+450) --- lost 4 units

NFL Preseason & Regular season to Date --- lost 42.85 units

Was happy with my 2 preseason picks, both made the playoffs and won a game getting to the final 8 teams, not to shabby for 2 fairly longshot teams made in the preseason. Consider that the overwhelming surprise team of preseason mags, radio personality`s, and even sport services was Jax, well, both my teams did better.

A good number of preseason mags pick the Jets last in the division, some sports services were saying, the only play on the Jets was under 9 wins.

There were 3 teams this year who played much better than their recrd and point spread record would indicate. These 3 will be my surprise teams for next season.

1. Houston
2. Arizona
3. Redskins

I will get down on these 3 as soon as the odds come out for next season. These 3 are heading in the right direction, i won`t wait for the draft or free agent signings, they know what their needs are and will do everything they can to fill them. If you wait, the odds will be drasticlly cut if they have a great draft or great free agent signings. A good example of this was Baltimore, they were 65-1, then after getting Jamal Lewis and Travis Taylor in the 1st round and picking up some free agents dropped all the way to 15-1.

Blazers - Yes, the perception is that the 85 Bears were a defensive team with a average offense. Well, let`s see what happens when perception meets reality.

Let`s compare the 85 Bears offense to these great offensive Super Bowl teams and ledgendary QB`S.

Montana`s 4 SB 49ers, Aikman`s 3 SB Cowboys, Farve`s 2 SB Packers, Elway`s 2 SB Bronco`s, Young`s 1 SB 49ers. That`s 12 SB teams with very good to great offenses and some of the best QB`S ever, right ?

How do you think the Bears offense stacks up ? We`ll use points scored and yards gained by each team.

Points scored ;

85 Bears (scored 456 pts) (7) - 12 SB teams (4) - 1 push
yes, 85 Bears scored more points than 7 of those teams and only 4 scored more than the 85 Bears.

Yards gained ;

85 Bears (365 yds/game) (6) - 12 SB teams (6) -- The 85 Bears outgained half of those great offensive teams with ledgendary QB`S.

Final tally -- 85 Bears (13) - 12 SB team (10) - 1 push

Definetly not a well below average offense.

Da 85 Bears were one of the most balanced teams ever, with a very good offense and a great, great defense, that`s why they`re regarded as the best ever.

Want more proof of their dominance ?

Let`s look at all the ledgendary teams that won the most games over a 2 year period, let`s compare their margin`s of vctory against teams with winning records during each teams 2 year run.

1. 85, 86 Bears - +15 points margin of victory vs teams with winning records
2. 82,83 Skins - +12.2
3. 89,90 49ers - +11.7
4. 78,79 Steelers - +10.8
5. 92,93 Cowboys - +10.2
6. 72,73 Dolphins - + 10.1
7. 03,04 Pats - +9.7
8. 96,97 Packers - +8.1
9.97,98 Broncos - +8
10 90,91 Bills - +3

Without a doubt, one of the best ever.
Making this even more impressive is the fact that Bears starting QB, Jim McMahon, injuried his shoulder on opening day in 86, he was in & out of the line up with 3 other QB`S throughout the year, and they still have the best point margin by far vs teams with winning records.

Da 85 Bears are 2.8 pts better than the 2cd best team, that`s incredible, the 2cd best team is only .5 better than the 3rd best, the 3rd best is only .9 better than the 4th best, they are so far ahead of the 2cd best team that the 2cd best team would have to go all the way to the 7th best to find a 2.5 pt difference, and they did it with 4 different QB`S playing throughout 1 of the 2 seasons, that my friend, is DOMINATION.

BTW, if the Pats win on SB sunday, they`ll have the record for most wins in a 2 year period.

Those bears were a wrecking machine-- that's all I know.


EXCELLENT investigating reporting!

Fooled again...dont be fooled by statistics.

1. The 1985 season had quite possibly the worst assemblance of NFL teams in league history, it was as if every team was going through a transition period. The pats team that made it in the NFC was the worst team ever to go to a Super Bowl, the 94/95 Chargers being a close second.

2. The Bears defense and special teams scored a lot of those points. As far as yardage is concerned, note the lack of good teams in 85.

3. The reason why the Bears were unable to repeat is because of their below average offense that contained one good player...an aging Payton.

Statistics are an important objective indicator but it can also be fools gold.

Blazers - Here`s a look at only offensive points scored, no int, special teams scores, just rushing and passing.

Da 85 Bears (407 pts)- 7 - 12 SB teams 4 - 1 push, quess what ? It`s the same. They still out scored 7 of those teams to only 4 out scoring them.

The reason they didn`t repeat was because their QB was hurt, McMahn threw 313 passes in 85 - 150 in 86 and was finished after week 12. Mike Tomczak, Steve Fuller, Doug Flutie threw 264 passes.

Do you know who played in the playoffs ? Doug Flutie, he was a mid season pickup who threw 46 passes as a Bear before that playoff start. Your very silly if you expect them to win the super bowl under that situation. No other team, would of repeated either.

You also mentioned that not only was the Bears offense below average but that Payton was aging. Really, define aging.

Here`s Payton`s line for the 85 season ;

2034 total yds from scrimmage - 2cd best of his carrer (2052, best)

1551 yds rushing - 4.8 ave per carry - 4.8 ave was 2cd best of carrer

49 receptions - 483 yds - 9.9 ave

49 recptions - 3rd best of carrer (53,50)

9.9 ave per catch - 3rd best of carrer (11.3, 10)

His 4.8 ave per carry was better than both Emmit Smith and Terrel Davis in 1 of their SB years

His 9.9 ave per catch was far better than both Smith and Davis in both their SB years

Not only did Payton have one of the best years of his carrer but one of the best in history

Let`s look at ave gain per pass att., - The ability to make big plays in the passing game - McMahon can`t be as good as the 12 legindary QB`s , could he ?


Jim MaMahon (ave 7.6 per pass att.) - That`s better than both Farve SB years, better than 2 of 4 Montanna SB years, better than 1 Elway SB years , better than 1 Aikman SB years

MaMahon 6 - 12 legindary QB`s 6 - he was better than half

Sometimes you just got to face the music, your perceptions are way, way off base.


Well , if your perception of Chicago`s offense being below average and Payton being aged are any indication, then
i`d say your perception of the 85 season being one of the worst assemblances of teams is pretty flawed as well.

I never heard that one before, and i doubt you could find anything to back that up. It takes more than just you saying it to make it so.


Your perception that the Pats were one of the worst teams to get to a SB, well, again,way way off base. They wre one of the better teams to lose a SB. They set a record that season that still stands today, 14 cosecutive weeks cover the point spread, not sure how you do that and are consider the worst.

Buddha bless you Fooledagain for coming to the defense of my Bears. That year is the only thing that has kept me from football hari-kiri all these years. What a season that was. Dan Marino single handedly kept them from the ultimate record. He had perhaps the best overall game I have ever seen a quarterback play that day. Every time the Bears blitzed -- which was often as usual- he was ready and hit his hot reciever.

However, I'll never forgive that asshole Ditka for giving the ball to the Fridge instead of Sweetness .

Amen-- sweetness was da man. A man amongst boys.

FA: awesome post/s. You stated your opinion and provided ample material that logically supports your position. I appreciate your efforts as a poster-- diatribe is all too easy to fall back on.

Was Walter Payton actually any better than Corey Dillon? I know he couldn't carry Eric Dickerson's JOCK!

Why would he WANT to ??

Super Bowl - Philly +7 (-105) over Pats --- 4.2 units to win 4 units

Futures bet still alive --- Pats to win SB (+300) --- 5 units to win 15 units

Tough call with TO`S injury, but most thing`s point to Philly. With a 100% healthy TO i`d lay a major bet on Philly with the point spread and ml.

I care to say .5 units on philly ml -230 and .5 unit parlay philly -7 to over 46

See you guys later tonight when Pats win the Supperbowl 23- 17

Let me axe you guise this question?
Brady Hall of fame material yet? When they tonight does that make him a lock?

I think so, I think Robert Kraft should put the money that Brady has earned him back into Bradys pocket and lets not have a huge issue about it.

IMHO with a win tonight he will become a fuckin legend much like myself

Have fun watching the game

Brady's the James Worthy of the NFL -- good player on a great TEAM. YAWN...

Of course he'll win (maybe in a squeaker?) tonight, though, which WILL be a damned impressive accomplishment.

I'd still take Fran Tarkenton or Fouts or Marino or MANNING 100 times out of 100.

How can Philly be MINUS 230 on the moneyline? Get your numbers (or TEAM) right.

Porker those are all great QBS and Brady is among those elite and tonight he will prove it.

The Pats have like 34 injured players and still fidn ways to win. Great coaching goes a long way.

Again this is a team sport and the Pats are a great Team not just a couple great players with Egos.

I hope TO plays so Harrison can put the KTO on him like he will with Big mouth Mitchell

enjoy the game

Well it is just about kick-off time!
Nice tribute to Ray, that shows some class. It was hard enough to achieve success for a white musician in that era. For a Black Musician, it was like swimming up a waterfall all day.

Wow! Great game. Congrats to all you Patriots fans. Condolences to you Eagles fans, but heh, they gave it a great effort and nothing to be ashamed about. I gotta say though, TO had an awful good game for a guy who just had surgery.

Well, maybe NEXT year will be the year of the Steelers

Val

yeah right porker, it was +130, don't matter now, but I wanted that safety near the end of game soooooooo bad.

YTD Bullitt record -1 unit

THe bullshit Dynasty talk begins.

A team that is consistent in finding ways to squeak out wins, yes, Dominant Dynasty, no way. Two really good games in four years. Unfortunately they were against the Colts and Steeles the last two games.

For the record

PAts lost first half, lost second half and lost game vs the spread

Also lost game vs spread last Super bowl.

Maybe fooled again1 can educate us on the supposed Dynasty's four record vs the spread.

Fooledagain1 does it again, comes roar`in back from a huge deficit, down 44.8 units after day 1, wins 50.4 units through the remainer of the playoffs to finish with yet another winning record in the playoffs. That`s a winning record in 7 of 8 playoff seasons posted on the site.


Super Bowl;
Philly +7 over Pats --- won 4 units
Futures - Pats to win SB (+300) --- won 15 units

Previous --- lost 13.4 units

2005 NFL Playoffs --- won 5.6 units
2004 NFL Playoffs --- won 25.4 units

New England offensive line should have been MVP. Brady had sshow much time to throw most of the time.....just the opposite of McNabb.

Brady is just a better than average QB who has benifited from have a great Offensive line the last fw years and great coaching! Stick him a team with an average offensive line and see how he does.

Kinda like Denver and their offensive line the past few years.....any RB they stick back there looks like an all pro.

Now look at Clinton Portis.....goes to Washington....great coach....Gibbs......but average offensive line.....he becomes another average RB.

You people are insane and have no fucking clue about football or have never played football if you think Tom Brady is an average or just good Quarterback. Tom Brady is the best Quarterback in the NFL right now .....fucking PERIOD. This is actually not a very good Patriots team as far as talent goes and it is the precise passing of Brady which puts this team in the Bowl every year. He is Joe Montana with a stronger arm. He has that same poise and control that the great ones like Montana, Unitas and Elway had. Nothing phases him. I hate the damn Patriots but if I had to pick one quarterback right now to win a game for me....hands down I pick Brady. He will end up in the Hall of Fame without the luxury of having one pro bowl wide receiver, other than Brown who made it one year.

You want technicals...here we go:

1. Footwork: Maybe the best footwork in the pocket I have ever seen and has that sixth sense that allows him to use the pocket to his advantage, even when its collapsing. His only weakness is that he is only above-average throwing on the run but he rarely makes the stupid mistake of throwing into tight zone spots.
Whenever the pocket starts collapsing, you always see Manning start to get happy feet and he panics....Brady will never do this.

2. Arm accuracy: Maybe the best I have seen at his position in big games. Throws tight, compact spirals in deep and short routes.

a) Simple outs- He can throw accross his body to the left in routes or to his right on his natural tendency throws and he always gives his receivers a lead that will prevent the 1 and 2 corners from closing in on the ball. Here is where his ball really zips. His throws are always made before the receiver makes his out or in cut and it's always right there. One of the tuoghest routes to throw in football as the receiver must trust the instincts of the QB.

b) Slant routes to his slot receivers. He always leads his receivers perfectly but not to the outside so that the linebackers have a shot at deflecting the ball. These routes are important in the zone schemes as linebackers like to tip these balls for easy pics by the other backs.

c) Deep ball(post and deep ins): Rarely underthrows his receivers and always throws tight balls right in the receivers basket zone. Manning might be better in this area but not in cold weather.

d)Screen Pass: The best in the NFL at these routes. He is always patient enough to let the play develop and the lineman to pull out in front before leading the back on his correct lead shoulder. Many QB's underthrow these routes or interrupt the momentum of the back by throwing on the back side of the backs route..right into the lap of the romaming linebackers.FootworkArm accuracy

3. Field Vision(Reads): Here is where Brady separates himself from the pack. Like Montana he knows precisely where all his receivers are at all times and which defensive schemes are set and which reads become hot on those plays. His best asset are that his eyes and motion never give away where he is throwing the ball which confuses the shit out of defenders, especially linebackers. His craziest trick is where he will bait linebackers and strong safeties into thinking he is going to the underneath routes and then at the last minute throws the deep route after the safety has pulled up, thinking the route is underneath. Cover 2 defenses get killed by him.

4. Poise: Never cracks under pressure, no matter what the elements. The game is slowed down for him and he never panics when the pocket collapses(except for the Miami game)

So why does Indy score so much more and rack up so much more yardage? Swap D's between Indy and the Pats and Indy wins the Super Bowl by 30+.

The point being, if Brady's such a superstar, why does he get minimized in the offense and they're always having to squeak out games despite a terrific D? They had ZERO points 28 minutes into the Super Bowl.

Indy does not rack up those numbers against good defenses and Philly has a good D. They managed to score a heap of points against Pitt and Brady was flawless against arguably the best defense in the NFL.(I think Washington has the best D). The difference is that Manning racks up crazy number in domes and Brady can rack up numbers anywhere. Manning also has the best receiving core in the NFL and New England's would be lucky to crack the top 10 best receiving cores.

Manning lit up the eventual NFC runner-up Philly D the last time he played them (albeit regular season). In Philly.

The Patriots had the best D in the NFL. Don't think there can be any arguments there. Give the Colts the best D in the NFL and a matchup against the 4th or 5th best, and they win by 30+.

Porker, that game was in 2002...nice try...lol. He only put up 20 against Baltimore and didnt do so well against New England...the only two good defenses he played all year. We will have to agree to disagree because I believe that Indy will have to get the #1 seed in order to ever have a shot at the Super Bowl as Manning doesnt have the intestinal fortitude to win the big games....just ask the Florida Gators

Brady doesn't crack under pressure....what was that fumble at the 3 yard line!

Again, offensive lines get the least amount of credit in the NFL.....Brady had all kinds of time to throw with that much time. It is easier to lead the recievers and have time to look off your first and second recievers.

Porker is right ....the Patriots very rarely blow out opponents with their great defense. Bradley gets the job done.....and remember he has the best kicker infootball that has won many close games for them.

They shouldn't have in been in the Super Bowl against St.Louis .....If their kicker hadn't kicked a 45 yard field goal in the snow!

Even against St.Louis.....Brady led a list minute drive against one of the worst denfenses in football and again it took a very long field goal to in the game.

He is a good QB....but he has benifited from being in the right system with Great coaching and a great offensive line.

No pro bowl recievers....just another sign of great coaching and game plans to spread the ball around. If you are going to put Brady in the Hall of Fame you have to put the whole team in the Hall of Fame. Brady just happens to be the piece of the puzzle that gets the most credit. But take away that extra time he gets from th offensive line and he becomes average!

Guys the only thing that matters at the end is the W.

Brady is now a lock for the fame even if he has dismul numbers for the rest of his career.

His post season play is 2nd to none and he doesnt crack under pressure, one fumble is not the end of the world.

People keep trying to make excuses on why he is winning. Well maybe cause he is good ?????

Who said he's not good? Just saying he's no Dan Marino despite the rings. It's a TEAM game and he's the luckiest QB in the world to be in the right place at the right time. And as for his big game performances, he is indeed worthy of all the praise. He did it when it counted.

I hope that the next time Rodney Harrison is in San Diego he drop's in on Dean Spanos and shows him what TWO superbowl rings look like.

When people think of Joe Montana, they forget all the times he fumbled against the NY Giants, LT invented the tomahawk chop just to induce Montana fumbles. Still, Montana remains the greatest QB ever, despite those fumbles.

Surprise teams for 2005 NFL season:

Houston Texans to win Super Bowl (+5000)--- 2 units to win 100 units

2005 NFL MVP --- David Carr (+5000) --- 1 unit to win 50 units



Arizona Cards to win Super Bowl (+3800) --- 2 units to win 76 units

Washington Redskins to win NFC (+1800) --- 3 units to win 54 units