Gregorio-- people always seem to selective memories and like to compare someones best or career year vs. what AROD does EVERY year. There's no need for debates, AROD will post his #s again soon.

With that said, KM isn't one of them. I think arod has another 10 years in the tank, so I obviously disagree tho.

Major typo or brain fart . I of course meant Albert Pujols of the Cards - not Luis !! My bad .

I knew that but everything I said is the truth. I guess I wanted to help you pile on A-Rod a bit. I don't hate him, but think that with the kind of bucks he's pullin down, he should be producing at crunch time.

BTW when Albert first broke in to the majors, the first thing I wondered was whether he was Luis Pujols' son...

I was really looking forward to the beisbol world cup, AKA the World Baseball 'Classic', but the people pussying out has made it a bit of a joke. Woulda been fun to see a Dominican team with Manny, Vlad, Tejada and Puols smack the shit out of everyone and then have Pedro to shut them down. Instead, no Manny, no Vlad, no Pedro. Guess they have no love for the home folks.

Of course Team USA looks lame too. Al Leiter made team USA? AL LEITER? Maybe in '97...

I think this tournament is a great idea, but apparently the players don't give a shit. Worse than using pros in the Olympics, apparently.

I think it would be better if it was held in November. I would think that pitchers are at a disadvantage at this point, and if they're smart they will treat the games as exhibitions. Too high of a chance of arm damage in going all-out after the winter layoff.

Jeez, Kirby Puckett's dead? I'M GETTING OLD!!!

Yep, Mt. Crushmore has lost its first member.

I loved those Twins teams of the late 80s and early 90s--blue collar bangers.

Hrbek to Gaetti: "If it's high let her fly, if it's low, let her go..."

Here is my fantasy baseball tip for 2006: get Prince Fielder on your team. He can hit.

Hit for power. So what... Plenty of fat guys around to do THAT.

He's actually a patient hitter and has had a good on base percentage in the minor leagues and a great average. Dont confuse him with his father.

And he strikes out at a a very high rate, 25% of the time at AAA, meaning it might be 30% in the big leagues, which is Bo Jackson-level inept. His old man was a HELLUVA hitter after he came back from Japan for a couple of years. Jr. would be lucky to ever reach that level of success.

Strikeouts or not, he is hitting .349 at the moment.

Fielder is knocking the cover off the ball right now and not striking out. He is not as much of a power as his old man and sprays the ball all over the field. This kid will be around a while and be a regular at the All Star Game...bank on it.

Prince Fielder has *lots* of power. I think worst case he will be a mistake hitter, and still knock in 20 HRs a year.

And Chris Shelton's slumped all the way to .471, while Dan Johnson (better than either of those guys) has 1 hit in 2 weeks. SO???

Cant remember Cecil Fielder having 3 walks in one game and a stolen base. Prince Fielder is a good hitter and not just some power hitter who strikes out all the time.

Anyway, there is very little loss to the effectiveness of a batter if they strike out, compared to putting the ball in play. Over the course of a season, the additional benefit to the team is marginal.

On the other hand, the benefit to a team from home runs is considerable.

So wrong. Putting the ball in play is huge and that is what #2 hitters are for. Anyone that can replace strike outs with putting the ball in play is very valuable as he can move runners instead of waisting an out.

Sampson, statistical analysis does not bear out your assertion.

For one thing, you can't ground into a double play by striking out (nitpickers, yes I know that you can be involved in a double play even if you strike out, but that is not the same thing).

From wikipedia.org: "As of 2005 Cal Ripken, Jr. holds the major league record for most double plays grounded into in a career, with 350." Do you think that Cal would have been a worse player if instead he had struck out 350 times?

Prince Fielder watch:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7290/

Hitting .364 with some power. Watch the power numbers to rise as his batting average drops.

Prince Fielder watch:

Hitting .373 with added power (HR + double today), after going 0 for 4 yesterday. Looks like his power numbers are going up. I see him hitting about .280 for the season with 25+ HRs.

Since this is the 25th anniversary of this team, I am going to take another run at the 1981 Dodger team being the culmination of the great 1977-81 teams that I consider the Best Ever.

For starters, let me give you the starting lineup of the World Series team (game 4):

Lopes
Russell
Garvey
Cey
Dusty Baker
Rick Monday
Pedro Guerrero
Mike Scioscia

with these guys coming off the bench:

Reggie Smith
Steve Yeager
Jay Johnstone

So, how many teams from the last century have a starting lineup of players that you have heard of?

Now for the pitchers:

Bob Welch (Cy Young winner)
Rick Sutcliffe (Cy Young Winner)
Dave Stewart (Cy Young winner)
Fernando Valenzuela (Cy Young winner)

Burt Hooten
Jerry Reuss
Steve Howe (oops)
Tom Neidenfueur (oops)
Alejandro Pena

and many others. These last 5 guys were all good for short periods of time. They had just disposed of Don Sutton, a Hall of Famer, the year before.

I don't think that you are going to find an equal concentration of talent for any one team, anytime anywhere.

.280 with 25 HR's is some big whoop? 1B's are kind of EXPECTED to put up those #'s, aren't they?

Those were some damned good Dodgers teams, for sure. Hard to touch the Reds' lineups in the mid-70's however, and Pedro Guerrero was in the minor leagues for most of the years you ramble on about.

The Red Sox teams of those same years couldn't even make the playoffs because the Yankees were so good, but jeez, Rice, Lynn, Fisk, Burleson and Dwight Evans were each better than ANY player on your Dodgers lists.

'82 Angels: Carew, Grich, Foli (Burleson injured), Decinces, Downing, Lynn, Reggie, Baylor, B. Boone. The greatest lineup money ever bought.

About the Dodgers. I don't think ANY of those players are in Cooperstown. To call a team the BEST EVER, I would think you need at least a couple of HoF members. The big red machine had at least 4 (if you include Pete Rose). The current Yankees have at least 5 or 6 (and I'm NOT a fan of theirs).

agree with Porker-- they can't touch the big red machine in their prime.

3B Pete Rose
2B Joe Morgan
C Johnny Bench
1B Tony Perez
LF George Foster
SS Dave Concepcion
RF Ken Griffey
CF Cesar Geronimo

regretably either could the sox...

The difference is that the starting pitching staf of the Big Red Machine was below average at best. While the BRM's everyday lineup is unparalleled, as a complete team, there are teams that might be better.

27 Yankees, 49 Yankees, 77 Yankees, 70 Orioles, etc.

if we're taking the best ever historically (way back), I give the /27 yanks my vote:

Ruth and Gehrig at the top of their games...Tony Lazzeri @ 2B and Combs hit for .356 with 23 triples in the lead off spot. That makes 4 HOF's in the starting lineup. Add in Waite Hoyt and Herb Pennock (2 more HOF's) in the rotation and you have "THE" team. Final record: 110-44. hard to compare players of old vs. new, but this team was a wrecking crew.

it would be interesting to see how they would fare againt the BRM in it's prime

The Cincinatti Reds had no pitching to speak of, but their starting lineup in 1976 was great, indeed.

The Boston teams in the mid and late 70s had some great players, but some major holes, too.

The 1977 Yankees had some holes, they still had Roy White in the outfield if I recall. The current Yankees have basically no pitching.

Couple things to remember about that 81 Dodger team. Of the everyday players, only Pedro Guerrero and Sutcliffe were playing in their prime. Fernando had a spectacular season as a rookie as well so I will give you three in their prime. Dave Stewart was a relief pitcher that year and only a spot starter.

Another underachieving team: ARod, Griffey, Tino, Edgar Martinez, Bret Boone (GREAT fielding 2B in his prime), Buhner Buhner, Big Ugly Randy J., etc.

3 of the top 20 baseball players to ever put on a uniform, and a bunch of other quality players. What'd they ever win? DICK ALL.

Wasn't Tino long gone by the time ARod got to Seattle and years before Boone showed up?

I remember Boone's great year, right before his new contract, and a conversation I had with an MD friend.

As close as I can recall his words were "Nobody gets that much better and that much bigger that fast without steroids."

Didn't stop either of us from cheering.

Then the new rules came around and Boone's production went to hell.

Prince Fielder watch: Now hitting .373, fifth best in the league. Since he's a rookie, I expect his average to drop considerably by year end, to around .280, which is OK for a rookie first baseman.

Clearly a Rookie of the Year candidate.

Ejack, you're right, my bad, Tino and Arod only played briefly together in '95, while Arod was a light hitting rookie. Boone came back to Seattle after Griffey left and started hitting like he was Griffey for a couple years. Still, '96-99, Arod, Griffey and the big Ugly was one helluva core of players.

I thought that the Big Unit was pitching for Houston at the close of the 1998 season.

Yes, Randy left in 98. Didn't take Houston to the promised land.

Seemed like every time you turned around the mariners were losing another hall of famer.

But then their 116 win season came after the big three, ARod, Griffey and Randy were gone.
Thanks Ichiro!! Actually, I give the credit to Sweet Lou. The attitude on the team was amazing back then.

Now I know that my knowledge is nowhere near most of you guys. I don't have time to follow closely enough to keep up, and what I do know is pretty much homer knowledge of the mariners.

But it seemed like every time we lost another major player we just got better.

Griffy took less money to go home to what he expected would be a hero's welcome in Cincy...didn't happen. And we got Mike Cameron in exchange. Griffy's injuries killed him, and Cameron out produced him the next few years.

Randy wanted a six year guaranteed contract.
The mariners were willing to give him the money, but only for three years, because, after all he was aging and had a history of back problems....couldn't really blame them, but in the long run Randy was proved right.

However, as Randy was in the final year of his contract and we'd lose him anyway, getting at least SOME value was better than nothing, so we got three nobodies in exchange for him. Who were they??
Freddy Garcia....Carlos Guillen...Joel Pineiro.
Pretty good trade for a player we were going to lose anyway.

It hurt worst when ARod left....The city of Seattle went into a deep depression.....but the money freed up when he left is exactly how we were able to afford Ichiro.

So, a question for some of you guys who know better than me....what exactly is the problem with the mariner's bats.

We go out and get Sexon And Beltre...now sitting at .210 and .182....did anybody see this coming?

Team batting is terrible. Ichiro always starts slow, but this is ridiculous.

To me, this smells of an attitude problem, and I'm wondering where it's coming from. Any thoughts?

I stand corrected again about when the Big Ugly left, and yeah, they got a decent return from Houston for what turned out to be a two-month rental.

Good point about the team being better than ever when all the GODS left. Ichiro is one helluva player himself.

Re: Mariners bats this year, Sexson and Beltre really aren't very good hitters (when they're not going deep, that is) and they are prone to slumps like that. They're not THAT bad, though, and obviously them being ice cold at the same time is gonna sting.

Looking at that lineup, they could REALLY use a few guys that could get on base at the top of the lineup instead of Jose "you don't walk off the island" Lopez hacking away. I always thought Ichiro was most valuable in the 3-hole, but what do I know... Speaking of which, is Chris Snelling EVER going to be healthy enough to play? That guy has put up amazing batting average numbers between injuries.

How's Johjima playing? He smacked a couple of homers in the first week, but now Hargrove thinks he's hurt. If his defense is good, that's probably a solid addition over the clowns the Mariners have had at catcher in recent years.

I think Hargrove is being too protective of him and it's affecting his consistency and maybe his attitude.

He started very hot, but has cooled way down....still, at .297 it's the best on the club to this point.

Since when does a designated hitter have a .212 average??? I guess we were spoiled by all those years of Edgar....If you ask me, Edgar will go down as the most fondly remembered Mariner.

Ibanez, at .294, seems to be the main bright spot right now.

As for catcher, Wilson was also a fan favorite for many years, in spite of his poor production with a bat....It was his defense that kept him there, and I think he got pitchers through games that other catchers may not have....But yes...it's nice to see Johjima giving us some hitting from the catcher position.

Beltre will heat up... He's aweful streaky, but quite talented.

DM, the guy's had ONE good year. Even the immortal Richard Hidalgo had TWO!

Beltre is basically a .250 hitter who had a good year.

His stats are almost identical to Cal Rip through the age of 26, and career averages are on par with the likes of Eric Chavez and Mike Lowell thus far. Considering, he's bound to improve w/ time, I would say that puts him up a notch over these guys. Ohh explorer-- he's a lifetime .276 hitter.

Better off thinking of Beltre as a .259 career hitter that had ONE GOOD YEAR.

Ripken was a gold glove winning SS, and his batting averages to start his career were much better than Beltre's. If Adrian Beltre gets 3,000 hits I will hook DM up with an all-nighter with the hottest girl in South Beach.

Also, if you can name a Dominican player that has aged particularly well (getting better well into his 30's), I'd love to hear about it. They tend to just LOSE IT a lot quicker than U.S. born players. Maybe because they never bother to learn the strike zone.

Sammy Sosa.

Julio Franco.

Isn't pedro from the DR?

Rip and Beltre stats are nearly identical for the first 5-6 years of their career:

hits, HR, BA , SLG, SB

Beltre: 1103,166, .276, .455, 65
Rip: 1084, 160, .283, .475, 14

Explorer, you make my points for me.

Sammy Sosa due to 'roids, and he was FINISHED by 36, and an all-or-nothing hitter for several years before that.

Julio Franco was a star in his early 20's and out of the majors by his early 30's. That he is surviving as a platoon/pinch hitter at grandpa-age doesn't mean he had a normal career progression.