Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive 01	50		2008/07/13, 11:20 am
	Archive 02	50		2008/07/13, 11:21 am

LAGuy,

Exactly. If Bush had come in and said "I'm cutting taxes but also cutting spending 10%, both civilian and DoD" then I would give him some credit. But, he cuts taxes and explodes spending, much of it wasteful. Iraq, TSA, they just piss it away with zero in return.

Everyone should go back and read the political threads from 5-6 years ago. A lot of the Bush supporters are now Democratic supporters, or at the very least hate Bush.

I hate to say "we told you so" but we did.

I have to agree that the idea that the Republicans have one iota more fiscal responsibility than Demos has been soundly disproved. Regan, the GOD of so called moderate Republicans has only been surpassed by GW as a fiscal basket case. Now Dems, unrestrained by the Repubs, spend just as unwisely. IAS does have a point, BUT, currently we do not need inaction. Useful action is prevented. I despair of finding someone to support.

OTOH, $120/barrel oil is not scaring me. It gives me hope that an alternative will actually be found. Short term costs seem to be the only thing that inspires groups to change. Now, there is a buck in changing from oil.

Hydrogen/Biomass/Solar or even something not invented yet?? One whole lot more likely at $200 a barrel than $40. Just imagine, the whole middle east becomes a sideshow commanding nothing but amusement from the West. Fuck Israel and the Palestinians. Let them kill each other. We can't stop them. They'll stop when we stop paying attention.

Now, how to marginalize the bible thumpers and new agers? How do we get folk to see past stupid political brands? How do pick people to lead that are interested in making things better, not protecting their positions and perks.

I'm not very hopeful about that.

(Message edited by smitopher on April 24, 2008)

Wholly crap. I actually agree with smitopher on the environment/oil thing. Except for different reasons. I have always figured, like most things in the world, the free market will resolve all things in time. Oil gets scarce, it gets expensive, when it gets expensive, everyone looks at alternatives, when alternatives look cheaper, investors provide capital and consumers get on board. When government gets involved, it screws up the natural process and everything gets more messed up. No amount of legislation will hasten the switch from oil to other energy sources. One thing will.... oil gets expensive, other sources are cheaper in comparison. If you tell me I HAVE to use some funny car or pay some contrived fine for buying an airline ticket.... I will say FUCK YOU environmentalists. But if I see it is cheaper for me to drive a funny car because the regular car is getting expensive or I buy an airline ticket that is cheaper because the airline has modernized their fleet to more fuel efficient aircrafts, then I will probably get around to doing it.

See. all the environmentalists owe Bush an eternal debt of gratitude for hastening the process. Bush may well have more to hasten the adoption of alternative energy than 10 million left wing environmentalists :D

Talking about oil and the price of gas. Here in San Diego the price of diesel has gone over $4.50 and regular is at $3.99 When McCain says he wants to drop the taxes on fuel during the summer driving season. That is just playing to the voters.

The real solution is to RAISE the tax rate on gas, currently about $.18 per gallon and $.24 on diesel. We should raise the tax rate on gas to about $.35 per gallon. The sooner we... as a nation starts to use less oil, the better off we will be as a nation.

Before you ask, the answer is YES I do drive a car that gets an average of 43MPG in real world SoCal driving, and it's not a butt ugly prius.

RG.

Way earlier in this thread, someone worried about Obama not being able to take the Latino vote if he beat Clinton.

I predict Obama will sweep the Latino vote, because his running mate won't be Gore or Edwards; his running mate is going to be Bill Richardson.

National Debt during Presidential terms.

Another chart:

I had to cut those images down to post them here.

If you want the originals that are easier to read:

http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm

http://www.lafn.org/politics/gvdc/Natl_Debt_Chart.html

I used to think Richardson would be on Obama's short list for running mate. But now that the Clinton's have made clear they HATE Richardson, Obama picking Richardson would basically say to the Clintons, fuck you, I don't want you to help unite the party or support my campaign. Yes, Richardson as running mate made sense previously, but in light of recent events and the bad blood between the Clintons and Richardson, it would be a very risky pick for Obama.

OTOH, I would add to my list of potential running mates Ed Rendell. He really knows how to speak in support of whomever his candidate is, and would bring along Pennsylvania and would help in Ohio and maybe New Jersey. He also would represent a good bridge to the Clintons. He doesn't help with the foreign or military experience deficit Obama has, but still projects a strong resolute presence. Helps with the Jewish vote as well, another potential problem for Obama if he can't solve it with his VP choice.

My only reservation is Chris Mathews likes him for VP, and I hate to agree with Mathews.

But how would that Clinton chart look if Hillerycare '92 gone through? You would need a scroll bar to reach the top.

What I see is massive decreases in deficit spending in years of intense partisan bickering. Iran-Contra '86, Monicagate '98 ;)

Statistics can be made to say anything you want them to. How about according to chart 1 it looks like Clinton started off at about 4 trillion and finished off at about 6 trillion. ~50% increase in debt. Bush 2 looks to have started off just under 6 trillion and is projected to finish '08 at about 10 trillion. About a 65% increase including a war , the tail end of Clinton's recession and massive tax cuts. 50% increase vs 65% increase? Neither acceptable but not stratospherically different as the chart would imply. Reflected by the skewed chart. No. Any of these numbers meaningful as much more than propaganda? Not really.

Dem's problem is they are campaigning on platform of tax and spend. Repub's are not putting that label on them these days. Hillery and Obama are going on TV and saying that if elected, they intend to raise taxes and increase spending. Thats a core basis of both of their campaigns. Don't like the label? At least have the common sense to lie about it ;)

How about this - the economy grew a compound 45-50% under Clinton, so the deficit grew at about the same rate. So about a wash. Under Bush, the economy has grown at about a compound 25% and the deficit has grown 65%. Not a wash, that's a lot of real growth. From a raw numbers perspective, which I don't care for, Bush has expanded the deficit twice what Clinton did, and that's not taking this year, 2008, into account.

These graphs are just about the national deficit. The current account balance is possibly more important to look at, the trade deficit less important but still useful.

The real truth is a simple graph of a single element of a very complex economy is useless by itself. Don't get me wrong. The Republicans handling of the deficit lately is inexcusable. I am not defending that. Especially considering that with the Bush tax cuts and everything revenue is actually up.

And for those who think it is the war and Bush tax cut's that are wholly responsible for the deficit, consider the xls file at http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2009/sheets/hist08z4.xls which shows defense spending as a percentage of GDP. In 2000 Defense spending accounted for ~3% of GDP. In 2007 It accounted for ~4% of GDP. The war has not rendered this country broke. Hell. Defense spending under JFK's administration during peace time was more than twice the percentage of GDP as war time defense spending under Bush and we were able to afford that just fine. Whether you are for or against the war or if it was seriously mishandled in the execution. We can still afford it.

Now if you will look at the xls file at http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2009/sheets/hist01z1.xls you will see where the Republicans fucked up in the last 7 years. In 2000 Federal revenue was ~$2 trillion. After 6 years of Bush tax cut's Federal revenue GREW to almost $2.6 Trillion. Cutting taxes increased revenue. The tax cuts didn't cause the deficit. Where the Republicans fucked up. Spending increased ~$1.8 Trillion in 2000 to 2.7 Trillion in 2007. Democrats proposed solution. Increase spending, increase taxes. They are the ones saying it, not me. Republicans proposed solution. Increase spending, reduce taxes. Yes I see the flaw in that rational too. I_am_Sancho's proposed solution. Shut all these morons down by pitting the two sides against each other before they can do much more damage.

(Message edited by I_am_Sancho on April 25, 2008)

Sancho,

Keep in mind that those numbers for defense spending, in link one, do not include war spending. War spending is not part of the defense budget, the $100 billion or so per year is "additional non-appropriated funds". That numbers in the spreadsheet are just the baseline DoD budget excluding special items - like Iraq, Afghanistan and any and every other operation.

I would also highly dispute your concept that the Bush tax cuts have caused revenues to increase. The Laffer Curve has been proven incorrect in every example where marginal tax rates are under 75% time and time again. There has never been a documented case where dropping taxes has paid for itself directly through stimulating the economy. Any second-year undergrad econ major knows this, though it doesn't prevent people from spouting it.

You may be the last of the Republican holdouts on the board. There used to be many of you, now not so many. At least you dislike Bush, but there are a lot of fallacies in your argument and lot of what-ifs. I'm not a fan of socialized medicine but what if there were a national health plan, regardless of cost? Would so many old-line industries like steel and autos and even airlines be in the shape they were/are if it weren't for the burden of retiree health costs? There are dozens of major variables and hundreds of small ones, and you fixed on one single one that never actually happened

Regression analysis is usually fairly accurate in micro-economics. In macro, it's usually not that accurate, but you really need more than one data point to even attempt to argue one way or the other - especially 15 years after the fact.

I like to put it this way - how many people are 1)happier and 2)better off economically - today vs 8 years ago. I'm better off economically, which is the easy part, but certainly not happier.

I guess I'm the hold out because personally I am both way better off economically and a hell of allot happier than I was 8 years ago. Fuck all the rest of you guys and the country too so long as I got mine.

Heres where the Democrats are WAY fucked up. I am certainly one of those disaffected republicans you hear about. I could switch so easily switch if someone offered me anything. But the Democrats offer me Boxer, Feinstien, Pelosi et al, and either Hillary or Obama. What a pathetic offering. Never in a million years could I bring myself to vote for any one of those losers. Throw out something even marginally acceptable and I might vote for it but nooooooo. And when I say Boxer, Feinstien, Pelosi et al, and either Hillary or Obama suck and I would never vote for them, the left say if I don't vote for them I am obviously a stupid racist, which then inspires me to say fuck all you guys.

And how could McCain be polling almost dead even with either Hillery or Obama in this year of all years. I say it's up in the air who will win in the fall but seriously this should have easily been a case of the role reversal of 1984: Reagan - Mondale. Dem's are barely breaking even when if they ran a mainstream candidate they would win by a historical landslide. The far right may not like McCain but a wide majority of Republicans had the common sense to run the guy amongst them who has most distanced himself from the parties problems. If republicans used the same mentality the democrats apparently do in selecting their candidates, we would be seeing Cheney vs Rumsfeld fighting for votes in Oregon right now, on a platform of powering SUV's on rendered whale blubber.

Hey. I'm kind of just in here trolling because in reality the Republicans are indefensible this time around. You guys got me there. Where I differ I guess is I think the Democrats are equally indefensible. There can be no good outcome. It's hopeless. We're doomed.... doomed I tell you. Fuck drink and be merry because tomorrow we may die

I am Sancho: Out of curiosity, what specifically don't you like about Feinstein?

Feinstein... long term career gun grabber. Voted to extend the Patriot Act and scale back limits FISA which seemingly falls in line with the Republicans greatest failings of all, and against where the Democrats talk good but fail to deliver. She failed as a counterbalance in that respect. Generally unlikable and irritating. Plus she is very ugly.

In reality, I can tolerate Feinstein. I wouldn't vote for her myself but I'll give her credit she has been somewhat more of a pragmatist on some issues where her party may be prone to do something crazy. So I can live with her even if I don't like her. She has moved a little more towards the center in Washington than she was in San Fransisco. Which I suppose is to be expected but I already hated her back in the late 80's so she has to live that down.

Yeah, Feinstein becoming a gun grabber simply because some lunatic burst into City Hall and blew away the mayor and a city councilman, which caused her to assume the mayorship of San Francisco and had a lasting impact on her.

Can't figure that one out. Funny that.

---

quote:

IAS said: Wholly crap. I actually agree with smitopher on the environment/oil thing. Except for different reasons.

---

---

quote:

If you tell me I HAVE to use some funny car or pay some contrived fine for buying an airline ticket.... I will say FUCK YOU environmentalists. But if I see it is cheaper for me to drive a funny car because the regular car is getting expensive or I buy an airline ticket that is cheaper because the airline has modernized their fleet to more fuel efficient aircrafts, then I will probably get around to doing it.

---

I better get the hell out of here before I get myself in trouble. Seriously, I like all you guys. I do. IIRC the court ordered me to put a breathalyser on my computer..... or was that my car.... I forget... It's Friday night.... And if go out of my house I may be arrested.... Damn....

Cat... I think you missed my point. My interpretations of singular statistical points were crap...... I blatantly spun them..... Theoretically to the point of being obvious....Just like the statistics in the charts Xeno put forward. Statistics can be made to say anything out of context.

Murasaki. If Feinstien hates half of America for something a single fucked up lunatic did..... Fuck her... she is a bigot.

Smith. The market will work. With government in charge political preferences took over leading to farm subsidies which institutionalize forever using 10 units of energy to produce 5 unites of energy. I bet you farm bill '08 passes a democratic congress whether it makes sense or not. The free market would have quickly dismissed such silliness as unprofitable but will in fact pursue wind and solar in the face of $120 oil. The market rules and solves all. Government sucks for any reason other than to protect the market.

Go to any third-world country where the population in big cities walks around with hankerchiefs over their noses to keep the pollutants away and you will see how well the free market unregulated by the government works when it comes to environmental issues.

Laguy.... Deal with it.... It is reality... When alternative energy is cheaper,,,, every first world and every third world city on the planet will adopt it overnight. Until them...... That is the way it is. Heavy handed government will never achieve otherwise.

I am Sancho: I don't have to deal with it when I'm in the U.S. The air is much cleaner here than in third-world countries precisely because of government intervention. Perhaps we differ on this, but I for one am not particularly looking forward to a premature death from pollution induced cancer or other disease just so in the interim I can pray to the free market.

You should take a basic economics course and learn basic concepts like what an externality is before spouting off your free market econonic theories as though they were some sort of religion we should all worship.

I apologize to all you liberal guys. I was drunk last night. I'll be good now. If you seen what I e-mailed to a few Filipina hookers last night you wouldn't feel so bad.


Although..... Seriously...... Love me or hate me politically. The Libertarian type guys have apparently been cut loose by the Republicans.... I believe there are 10's of millions of us. Many swing voters in key states. We are tolerant of anyone who doesn't expect us to pay for their lifestyle. Just put up a candidate who doesn't openly pronounce that they will fuck us over if we vote for them and we may...... But you don't.....

Hillery vs Obama......... Militant man hating bull dyke vs Carter v2.0......

McCain at least pays lip service.

"I believe there are 10's of millions of us. Many swing voters in key states."

Sure. That's why Ron Paul racked up soooooo many delegates.

"We are tolerant of anyone who doesn't expect us to pay for their lifestyle."

And tough shit if my lifestyle includes things like protection from environmental degradation, protection from greedy, monopolistic corporations, etc. American libertarianism is just an intellectually and morally bankrupt pseudo-philosophy masquerading as a cover for pure greed. The world would be a better place if libertarians (the economic/Cato Institute variety) all moved to Mexico and dug bunkers so they could avoid contact with the great unwashed. The Republicans cut loose the libertarians because even the Republicans recognize the kooks for what they are. Who would want to associate themselves with a bunch of economic Talabinists?

Been kind of quiet in here since Obama wrapped up the nomination.

I thought I would share some of the sites I use to track the election.

My first and favorite site is Electoral-Vote

http://www.electoral-vote.com

He updates the page daily and often has interesting news and commentary. He is tracking the Presidential race and the Senate and House races. He is obviously a Democrat. He provides all the data he uses for his analysis so you can double-check his numbers and conclusions.

If you are looking for a similar site with a Republican point of view, you can visit Election Projection.

http://www.electionprojection.com

The Electoral Vote guy does not agree with Election Projections analysis and politics. But according to Electoral Vote, who has checked Election Projection's numbers, they are completely honest.

Another site that is updated far less frequently is President Elect.

http://www.presidentelect.org

Personally, I visit Electoral Vote every day, Election Projection weekly and President Elect whenever I can remember.

I also use Polling Report.

http://www.pollingreport.com

These are raw numbers. They offer subscriptions for state by state and other data. I always like to visit this site to see Bush's approval and disapproval ratings.

The Electoral Vote guy subscribes to all kinds of polling data services so he gets his numbers from everywhere.

One other site I use for polls is Real Clear Politics.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

If you haven't heard, Obama will accept the nomination in 76,600 seat Invesco Field at Mile Stadium in Denver.

The event will probably have a rock star or concert type feel to it.

Some analysis I have read draws comparisons of this election to the 1980 election. Many Americans wanted Carter out, they just weren't sure about Reagan. Same thing here.

Seems many Americans want a change from Bush/McCain/Republican leadership.

All Obama has to do is re-assure them and he wins easily.

To me, the contrast between the candidates is really stark. I don't think Americans elect a crotchety old dullard like McCain unless Obama really scares them. Some won't vote for Obama because he is black. But others won't vote for McCain because he is old.

McCain has little personality, seems forgetful, doesn't speak well in public (My gosh, after eight years of Bush and his public speaking it would be nice to hear a President who is actually articulate) and is basically a stiff in the Dole, Gore, and Kerry mold.

America doesn't elect stiffs like Dole, Gore, or Kerry.

My favorite McCain analysis by the media, (perhaps Olbermann) is the one where the McCain of 2000 would not vote for the McCain of 2008.



So we'll see.

Here's another site to check out:

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

I read electoral-vote.com every day as well. I think it's overall the best site out there. I'm not sure what's up with the guy running presidentelect.org, he's still only updating about once a month. Electoral-vote.com is updated just about every day.

I always encourage people to read some of their local bloggers as well. Being in the DC area, the local bloggers around here are about as sanctimonious as they get, both at state/local and Federal levels. But, they are usually minor players in the game itself, so they do get good inside info on Federal goings-on that most bloggers simply don't have much access to.

I wonder what percentage of Americans feel the same way I do - is their going to be a checkbox for "Neither" on the ballot?

Hey Sancho, I'm cheering for you... your not alone.

Phoenixguy, my guess is a lot of people feel the same way. So disappointing. I think Obama has the hope and charisma most people are looking for, but not much more. On the other side, we need a complete break from Bush and McCain isnt going to give us that.

I was really hoping someone would show up that was in the middle. Not sure anyone here would agree with this, but I was watching Arnold the other day in an interview and he made a lot of sense.

Unfortunantly, Bush and the rest of the politicians (both sides) have fucked things up so bad we are all going to have to go through a lot of pain before we get out of this mess.

On to more important things, I am due for a Nogie run if you are going to be down this way PM me. AZ

To quote a former Bangkok commentator.

"Any further comment would be superfluous."

I'm not sure the "which one best represents you" argument works so well on this board, particularly given that we now know about McCain's "relationship" with a Brasilian "model" he met close to the docks in Rio.

I personally prefer the "which one is almost certainly going senile and will likely poop in his pants while giving the State of the Union address" argument. Although perhaps I would rather use a more dignified and analytical argument in favor of Obama, the one I have just given is simple, straightforward, and something the typical American voter could understand (not that I'm an elitist or anything).

(Message edited by LAguy on September 22, 2008)

As we finally close the book on the disastrous past eight years that have also been referred to as the "Bush Administration," allow me to take a few parting shots.

The Bush You Forgot. Some of the quotes he makes.....Wow. Just wow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9SOVzMV2bc

Xenono; Let me add something that a friend sent me today.

Yes George Bush said these things.

"They misunderestimated me."
Bentonville, Arkansas, 6 November, 2000
''I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I believe and what I believe - I believe what I believe is right."
Rome, 22 July, 2001
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on... shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again."
Nashville, Tennessee, 17 September, 2002
"There's no question that the minute I got elected, the storm clouds on the horizon were getting nearly directly overhead."
Washington DC, 11 May, 2001
"I want to thank my friend, Senator Bill Frist, for joining us today. He married a Texas girl, I want you to know. Karyn is with us. A West Texas girl, just like me."
Nashville, Tennessee, 27 May, 2004

FOREIGN AFFAIRS

"For a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times."
Tokyo, 18 February, 2002
"The war on terror involves Saddam Hussein because of the nature of Saddam Hussein, the history of Saddam Hussein, and his willingness to terrorise himself."
Grand Rapids, Michigan, 29 January, 2003
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." Washington DC, 5 August, 2004

"I think war is a dangerous place."
Washington DC, 7 May, 2003

"The ambassador and the general were briefing me on the - the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice."
Washington DC, 27 October, 2003
"Free societies are hopeful societies. And free societies will be allies against these hateful few who have no conscience, who kill at the whim of a hat."
Washington DC, 17 September, 2004
"You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror."
CBS News, Washington DC, 6 September, 2006
EDUCATION

"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"
Florence, South Carolina, 11 January, 2000
"Reading is the basics for all learning."
Reston, Virginia, 28 March, 2000
"As governor of Texas, I have set high standards for our public schools, and I have met those standards."
CNN, 30 August, 2000
"You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test.''
Townsend, Tennessee, 21 February, 2001
ECONOMICS

"I understand small business growth. I was one."
New York Daily News, 19 February, 2000
"It's clearly a budget. It's got a lot of numbers in it."
Reuters, 5 May, 2000
"I do remain confident in Linda. She'll make a fine Labour Secretary. From what I've read in the press accounts, she's perfectly qualified."
Austin, Texas, 8 January, 2001
"First, let me make it very clear, poor people aren't necessarily killers. Just because you happen to be not rich doesn't mean you're willing to kill."
Washington DC, 19 May, 2003
HEALTHCARE

"I don't think we need to be subliminable about the differences between our views on prescription drugs."
Orlando, Florida, 12 September, 2000
"Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB/GYN's aren't able to practice their love with women all across the country."
Poplar Bluff, Missouri, 6 September, 2004
TECHNOLOGY

"Will the highways on the internet become more few?"
Concord, New Hampshire, 29 January, 2000
"It would be a mistake for the United States Senate to allow any kind of human cloning to come out of that chamber."
Washington DC, 10 April, 2002
"Information is moving. You know, nightly news is one way, of course, but it's also moving through the blogosphere and through the Internets."
Washington DC, 2 May, 2007
OUT OF LEFT FIELD

"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."
Saginaw, Michigan, 29 September, 2000
"Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream."
LaCrosse, Wisconsin, 18 October, 2000
"Those who enter the country illegally violate the law."
Tucson, Arizona, 28 November, 2005
"That's George Washington, the first president, of course. The interesting thing about him is that I read three - three or four books about him last year. Isn't that interesting?"
Speaking to reporter Kai Diekmann, Washington DC, 5 May, 2006
ON GOVERNING

"I have a different vision of leadership. A leadership is someone who brings people together."
Bartlett, Tennessee, 18 August, 2000
"I'm the decider, and I decide what is best."
Washington DC, 18 April, 2006
"And truth of the matter is, a lot of reports in Washington are never read by anybody. To show you how important this one is, I read it, and [Tony Blair] read it."
On the publication of the Baker-Hamilton Report, Washington DC, 7 December, 2006
"All I can tell you is when the governor calls, I answer his phone."
San Diego, California, 25 October, 2007
"I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office."
Washington DC, 12 May, 2008

Obama ....this is the change you voted for!


Appointing tax cheats to head the Treasury and fix the economy......let's hear your spin on this......


http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090114/pl_politico/17428

Beachman, you're back. I thought you had followed the Confederate Army to Mexico or something, are you already gearing up for the open Senate election in Florida in 22 months? Are you politically in exile the next 4/8 years with Obama in charge?

Oh yeah, he's appointing a "tax cheat" to head Treasury. Who better to get things flowing again then the guy who knows the system right?

Are you still jerking off to Palin pics in your backyard bomb shelter?

Leechman-

I thought you redneck Republicans hated the IRS. You should love guys who try to screw the IRS.

But, more seriously, anyone with "complex finances" knows how simple it is to screw up when filing, even with professional help. The tax code is obscene, and making mistakes is easy. I got a letter from the IRS this past year saying I'd made a mistake and owed an additional $22,000! When I went through the review process with them, it turned out they were wrong, but that I had made a different mistake and they owed me $3,200 plus interest.

So, I'm very forgiving of people who have gotten sideways with the IRS until it can be shown that they intended to cheat the government.

Welcome back, Leechman. BTW, fucked any whores lately? We'd love to read something from you on a topic other than politics.

Branco

I'm betting Beachman has moved on from jerking off to pictures of Palin to jerking off to replays of Bush's last press conference.

And what a masterpiece that was!

Beachman; At least geithner is qualified for this position. If you want to talk about qualifications.........here is something to jog that brain of yours. Do you remember when Bush nominated Harriet Miers for the Supreme court???

RG

I knew you guys wold make excuses for him.......

Speaking of Bush's press conference the other day, and I'm sure will be repeated during his farewell (we hope) address tomorrow night, I'm trying to figure out why his friends aren't stopping him. He's acting very much like a guy who's girlfriend just dumped him, and he's pussywhipped to the point that he's blabbering about anything to get her back.

Seriously, he should just be quiet and go away on Tuesday. Exxon and Haliburton and KKR, they'll be paying him handsome sums of money to "advise" them over the next decade or two. Really just payback for all the good governance that saw oil increase 400% in price and for the billions in no-bid contracts in Iraq and everything.

Anyways, Bush seems dead set on trying to change peoples' opinion of him. I guess he can't deal with being called the worst President ever (or at least since Grant or Hoover), but at this late date, admitting to a few mistakes but hanging tight to the precept that he's right on the big ones - it's almost pathetic.

Bush still has friends? At this point he is pretty useless to just about everyone. The Alberto Gonzales of Presidents.

Then again Bush's dog Barney may still like him, but only because Bush still gives him dog food. But Barney is getting old and will die soon. Oh well.

OTOH, maybe Scooter Libby can be Bush's friend. We'll see about that the next few days. I suppose it will depend on whether Bush still thinks he has some sort of legacy worth preserving.

Geez, someone always can find some crap about anyone if they look hard enough. The alleged non-payment of taxes by this guy are in a grey area, and he paid the taxes plus penalties, so what is the exact problem?

I'll defer to Lindsey Graham's and Orrin G. Hatch's defenses of Geithner, as well as those of other similar-minded Republicans. It appears only those on the far fringes of the right-wing are trying to make anything out of this.

The fact that Lindsay Graham and Orrin Hatch can come off as moderate Republicans tells you all you need to know about why the GOP did so poorly in the last election. When kooks espousing the types of views Bleachman puts forth can be considered the barometer of the GOP, you know party is in its death throes.

I used to do my own taxes, but since I started to use an accountant, I can honestly say I spend a lot less time shuffling through my returns. Why? Well, because I paid someone to do it for me. I'm pretty sure Geithner has an accountant who does his taxes, and if they fucked up, I'm sure he dealt with it. Pay the back taxes and penalties and get square with the IRS, fire the accountant and possibly sue them for fucking up.

That said, it's embarrassing that the guy who's going to be in charge of the IRS fucked up on his taxes. Then again, I don't know anyone who hasn't fucked up on their taxes, for good or for bad.

That's what he gets for hiring illegal aliens to do his taxes.

The great illusion in America is the belief that there are 2 parties. The parties are really one in the same. Behind the scenes they cater to corporate power and bloated government. They both talk a good game, but look at the action. The shit already hit the proverbial fan and unfortunately the surrounding walls have a new coat of brown paint.

Good rhetoric, but as usual with this worn-out claim nothing to back it up.

As usual, Jon Stewart hits it on the head. Points out the already dramatic contrasts in styles between Obama and Bush. For example, Obama calls on reporters by their name and news agency. Bush calls on them by made up nick names.

Obama says he welcomes good ideas from anyone. Democrat or Republican. Bush, after being re-elected in 04 talks about obtaining "political capital" in the campaign and how he intends to "spend it."


http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=215336&title=President-Goofus-and-President-Gallant---Peer-Pressers

Looks like Geithner made a lot of "honest mistakes."

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/59703.html

The Democrats and Republicans alike are corrupt and they are going to let the gambling tax cheat be the head of Treasury. Talk about the fox guarding the chickens.

Bank of America and CITI are on the brink of collapse, Madoff has how many federal judges under his thumb, and the Auto makers are just so glad the news isn't focused on them until March when they come begging again. And the best qualified man in America to save the economy is a tax cheat of many different years who made "honest mistakes." How many "honest mistakes" does he get to make with the economy?

But all is well to the ignorant American public.....American Idol started up again this week!

Beachman is getting all fired up, but does he have the endurance to rant for the next 8 years about Obama?

How's the real estate market in Orlando going, and have you gotten laid in the last year or two?

"How many "honest mistakes" does he get to make with the economy? "

Hopefully not as many as Bush, Paulson, and their cronies.

I take that back. The Bush/Cheney mistakes were not honest ones. They raped the economy for the benefit of their "oil bidness" buddies.

I've been doing some deep deep analysis, and I have come to an absolute and unrefutable conclusion. BEACHMAN DOES NOT EXIST.

On a qualitative level, it is not possible to have the thoughts he has espoused on this board for so long without going going insane.

My research has concluded that Beachman is a fictitious pseudonym of LA Guy. Yes, that is right, Beachman is a figment of LA Guy's imagination. Just like Batman needs a fictitious Joker and Riddler, LA Guy has developed a fictitious foil to balance out his liberal views.

Now that the truth has been exposed, I plead all of you to do the only rational thing. Ignore Beachman because he does not exist.

Good evening.

Please BT (and others), don't rob me of my imaginary low-IQ friend.

"The Bush/Cheney mistakes were not honest ones. They raped the economy...."

Hey man, the economy was asking for it, dressing all slutty, wearing to much make-up, getting drunk and comming on to everyone like a whore. You know she liked it.

IAS provides the most coherent defense of the Bush Presidency yet. Good work!

You couldn't even let W. give his farewell speech without trying to steal the limelight?

Nice going geese.

"Nice going geese."

They were probably Canada Geese. No way can we idly stand by and let our civilian commercial airlines be downed by these foreign terrorists on their suicide killing missions. We must launch cruise missiles on Ottawa at once and carpet bomb French-speaking Quebec with B-52's if we are to maintain our deterrence.

And what of all those environmentalists who have aligned themselves with these killer Canada suicide geese. Earlier this century the hunters in this country almost had them wiped out until their allies on the left battled to put regulations in place allowing them to terrorize our skies with relative impunity. These environmentalist terrorist geese sympathizers need to be shipped off to Guantanamo at once.

I salute those valiant geese, they are up in waterfowl heaven with 72 virgin geesettes as we speak. Praise be to the goose god.

Praise Owl-a.

No Sancho, as everyone in New Jersey knows, the goose god is The Great WaWa. Praise be to WaWa.

I've been heron you guys have a lot of gull mocking others.

ok, I need to duck on out of here, later.

and btw CFK, Flock off

Sorry guys, I am bored.

You are quacking me up!

Ok, that was over the line Laguy. Toucan play that game.

While liberal New Yorkers must cower in fear of a few birds bringing their airliners down, the conservative folks at the Wasilla airport rolled up their sleeves and solved once and for all the much more serious problem of aircrafts colliding with moose. If you think a flock of geese getting sucked into a jet engine is messy you should see what happen when a herd of moose gets sucked into a jet engine.

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411365/621236
"Pilots flying into and out of a small airport north of Anchorage, Alaska, no longer have to keep an eye out for stray moose on the runway.

The municipal airport at Wasilla, a town about 65 km north of Anchorage, has installed an electric anti-moose mat around the airfield..........."

I hear they're going to install one of those mats around Palin's daughter. Since she can't keep her legs closed, they need something to keep her from getting pregnant again and electric fencing may do the trick.

Man, has this thread gone to the birds!

EA

Well politics is certainly nothing to crow about.
A few poultry posts is all it takes to hijack a political thread. I should have known a bunch of Boobies would prevail.......
BTY, who's migrating anywhere soon?

CFK

CFK, I knew you would show up here sooner or later. I did that one by accident. sorry

JAN-20-2009 --- END OF AN ERROR

Not only do Alaskan pilots have to watch out for moose on the runway, they must beware of that fat ass neighbor with the flying reindeer.

Azguy,

your goose is cooked!

CFK

ha, ok CFK, you wren!

this is my last post on this thread. I am getting on my nerves. I cant take it.

So I went back and looked for a thread where I predicted Obama would be President one day. I still remember saying to a good friend after the 2004 Convention keynote that I thought he would be President one day, but I didn't know if I documented it here. Although everything else I said in that post was pretty much dead wrong (including that I would support McCain - what was I thinking?), I nailed the Obama part.

https://www.clubhombre.com/discus/messages/88/53047.html



By Xenono on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 01:58 pm: Edit

I've always wondered what the US will have first.

A female president or a black president? That being said I think Barrack Obama WILL be POTUS one day. That guy has something special. I don't think Hilary can win, although I wonder if she qualifies as a southern Democrat still?

It has been proven time and again the only Democrat that can win the presidency these days is a southern one. See Johnson, Carter and Clinton...

I would imagine that the top Republican candidates in 2008 will be Guiliani and Jeb Bush. McCain will be 72 in 2008. That is 3 years older than Reagan when he won in 1980 so I think McCain is done, although I would support him 100% over any Democratic challenger.

Although, all Giuliani and J Bush need to do is hire Karl Rove again to do some push polling in the South Carolina primaries. One of the attacks Bush did against McCain in 2000 was to call people up and ask them, "Would you be more likely or less likely to vote for John McCain for president if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child?”

Then all the hicks and bigots in South Carolina turned on their televisions. The seed was planted and then there was John McCain campaigning all over South Carolina with his beautiful wife and their little adopted Bangladeshi daughter. The site of the little dark skinned girl made the seed planted earlier grow and John McCain lost South Carolina to Bush which basically ended his bid for the White House.

*

(Message edited by xenono on April 08, 2009)

You saw the future. What'd you win?

Hopefully a country that will continue lapping the global competition economically.

Politics 2010


Kinda sums up the elections yesterday.....


Little Mary Pat had a box of very small kittens that she was trying to give away, so she had them out on the street corner with a sign ‘FREE KITTENS’ next to them.

Suddenly a big line of big black cars came up with a policeman on a motorcycle in front.

The cars all stopped and a tall man stepped out from the biggest car. It’s President Obama.

‘Hi, little girl, what do you have there in the box?’ he asked.

‘Kittens’ Little Mary Pat says. ‘They’re so small, their eyes are not even open yet.’

‘What kind of kittens are they?’ he asked. ‘Democrats’ says Little Mary Pat.

The tall man smiled, returned to his car and they drove away. Sensing a good photo opportunity, President Obama called his Robert Gibbs and told him about the little girl and the kittens.

It was planned that they would return the next day, have all the media there an d tell everyone about these great kittens.

The next day, Little Mary Pat is standing out on the corner with her box of kittens with the ‘FREE KITTENS’ sign and the big motorcade of black cars pulled up with all the vans and trucks from ABC, NBC, CBS, BET and CNN but no FOX for some reason..

Everyone had their cameras ready and then, President Obama got out of his limo and walked up to Little Mary Pat.

‘Now, don’t be frightened,’ he said, ‘I just want you to tell all these nice news people just what kind of kittens you’re giving away today.’

‘Yes sir,’ Mary Pat said, ‘The are all REPUBLICAN kittens.’

Taken by surprise, Prsident Obama said, ‘But yesterday, you told me that they were DEMOCRATS.’

Little Mary Pat says, ‘Yes, I know. But today, they have their eyes open.






(Message edited by beachman on November 03, 2010)

America HATES itself. There is no other reason to explain yesterdays vote.

Nah, just too many fucktards like Beachman roaming the countryside.

The Democrats lost more seats in the House than in 64 years and they are very lucky that only a third of the Senate seats were up for re-election instead of all 100.....that would have been a ended with a huge majority for the Republicans.

That said....the voters were voting more to plunish Democrats than to reward Republicans. It looks like on the state level the Republicans took control of a lot of governorships and state legislatives. I think the people want less interference from the government in their lives.

Interesting that the people of Iowa don't want judges making law from the bench.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20101103/NEWS09/11030390/Iowans-dismiss-three-justices

One night the funny-looking bitter man went to sleep on his bunk bed, once again hoping that he would wake up the next morning with the ability to “shoot,” something he hadn’t experienced for many many years. He must have been very tired because he went right to sleep and entered a deep dream.

In the funny-looking bitter man’s dream, there was a guy with an orange face who kept shouting idiotic contradictory things like “We need to give rich people a big tax cut so we can close this enormous and irresponsible budget deficit.” Or, “Sex outside of marriage is against human nature and God, but I will grant an exception to David Vitter, John Ensign, and anyone else who is my friend.” While all this was going on in his dream, the bitter man’s member got harder and harder.

All of a sudden, Tattoo Joe, the funny-looking bitter man’s bunkmate at the penitentiary, sexual offenders division, started shouting and began pounding on the bitter man’s bunk: “Shut up girl, I’m sick and tired of your jerking and jerking all night long while you keep muttering in your sleep about some orange man. And this time you actually dribbled some shit out of your shriveled little penis. Congratulations.” Tattoo Joe then began fucking his “girlfriend” in the ass, as he did every morning and evening. While he was doing this “girlfriend” was thinking “If only the Republican Congress hadn’t made it a crime to post things on sex tourism boards (after banning sex tourism altogether) I wouldn’t have to suffer the buggering of Tattoo Joe.”

After about an hour of this it was time for breakfast. Tattoo Joe asked his girlfriend what he wanted. The reply was steak and eggs. Tattoo Joe replied, “Sorry Beachman, no can do. But I caught this kitten and cooked him up for you so you gotta eat it. Here ya go, start by eating the eyes.”

Laguy; Now that is a great reply.

As far as the Teabaggers that got elected I think that they are in for a cruel lesson in political reality.

LaGay-

You are so obessed with homesexuality....this video of you must explain why you are so queer....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUaYbfKZIiA


You seem to be pissed off that the Supreme Court Justices in Iowa that legislated Gay marriage from the bench were voted off the bench....guess you won't be moving there anytime soon.

"You are so obessed (sic) with homesexuality (sic)"

Well, I sometimes like to have sex at my home, but I also like to have sex other places.

But Beachman, I'm betting the reason there were two spelling errors in the first six words of your most recent post is you didn't cut and paste it from some other website. And no, I'm not calling you stupid and incapable of doing much more than cutting and pasting the work of others like a retarded monkey; I'm just letting the record speak for itself.

I was down in Florida last week and noticed the house next to the one I lived in back in 06/07, which went on the market in Aug 2006 for 425,000, just sold last month.

It went for $165,000.

Then I thought "it must really suck to be in real estate in Florida".

Now Beachman starts dropping turds again, and I remember that he's a real estate douchebag in Florida.

LaGay...

you must be a speling teacher at a al boiys prep scholl....how are that working out for you....I am surre you are a membber of the teachers union..... can prep scholl teacchers be memmbers of unioonns?


Bye the way how is thatt videio of you singing an song for Obama...? Do you and Chris Matthews still sit arround getting thrilss up your legs and having sex at home with eache other when you see you're hero Ovomit on television.....?

Can you grade my spelling for me again Mr. ( I am smarter and more educated than everyone else) teacher.

This is fun. But where are Turk5555 and KidCisco when you need them?

Notably absent from this thread are all the Obama supporters? Where are they now? Please - someone - step up and voice your support of this loser?

Obama and Pelosi are so far out of step with their country it's pathetic. I don't care if you're left or right, to support Obama's agenda during the past two years is political suicide - as evidenced at the polls.

If he doesn't start to pay attention to the polls, he WILL face a democratic opponent in the 2012 primary. Serve him right too. He's a terrible leader AND a socialist extremist.

A few more months of Obama's agenda and I'd be ready to vote for GCL

"He's . . . a socialist extremist."

Interesting. So that explains why President Obama brought in Larry Summers (once on the staff of the Council of Economic Advisors in the Reagan Administration), and Tim Geithner (formerly of Kissinger Associates, founded by noted Republicans Kissinger, Snowcroft, and Eagleburger, and later appointed by George W. Bush to Head the Federal Reserve Bank of New York) as his principal economic advisors, and renominated Ben Bernanke (former Chairman of George W. Bush's Council of Economic Advisors) to head the Fed.

Count on Laguy to stand up for his man Obama. Ok... let's hear you say that you support Obama's agenda now??

Anyone else who voted for him care to voice their staunch support of his first two years?

Hey, I wasn't standing up for him. I was voicing my disappointment in his conservative Republican or Republican-like economic advisors and their failure to implement anything approaching liberal economic policies.

Beachman - I tried, but this laguy's beYOND all hope :rolleyes:

"failure to implement anything approaching liberal economic policies"

heavy sigh...

Well, he only saved the financial sector from complete disaster, kept the economy from going into a full-scale depression, made positive moves on health care reform, has generally restored a lot of the lost US reputation around the world, hasn't started any wars under false pretenses, has done a great deal for student loan reform. So yeah, a lot of us are happy with what he's been able to accomplish. We're mad he and other Dems wasted so much time trying to work with Republicans, who clearly don't want to. It's a lost opportunity.

As to the rest, you can always head home to Canada if the socialism gets too much for you here in the US.

Sorry I’m not an American so maybe I am missing something but did the American voter really expect the democrats to repair 8 years of gross mismanagement by the Bush regime in less then two years?

Catocony....

You got to be kidding...

"We're mad he and other Dems wasted so much time trying to work with Republicans, who clearly don't want to."

You think Obama, Peloski and Reid tried to work with Republicans.

Look like the voters of Washington state rejected the Democrats plan to impose a "state income tax on only the wealthy." They know that once approved that the Democrats will eventually consided anyone who is not living off government assistance is wealthy and they will be taxed.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013329508_elextaxinits03m.html

As you can see below currently the lowest taxable bracet today pay more percentage wise federal tax than the "wealthiest" paid in 1913.
The voters in Washington state saw through the Democratic plan of class warfare to implement a state income tax and enventually tax everyone who doesn't live off the government including all the unnecessary government jobs.



The original Federal tax rates....and where they are now.....

Revenue Act of 1913
Normal Income Tax and Additional Tax on Individuals

38 Stat. 166 [7]

INCOME NORMAL RATE ADDITIONAL RATE COMBINED RATE
0 1% 0 1%* bottom marginal rate
$20,000* 1% 1% 2%
$50,000 1% 2% 3%
$75,000 1% 3% 4%
$100,000 1% 4% 5%
$250,000 1% 5% 6%
$500,000 1% 6% 7% top marginal rate



Current 2010 tax rates

Not over $11,950 10% of the taxable income
Over $11,950 but not over $45,550 $1,195 plus 15% of the excess over $11,950
Over $45,550 but not over $117,650 $6,235 plus 25% of the excess over $45,550
Over $117,650 but not over $190,550 $24,260 plus 28% of the excess over $117,650
Over $190,550 but not over $373,650 $44,672 plus 33% of the excess over $190,550
Over $373,650 $105,095 plus 35% of the excess over $373,650

Isawal: Sorry I’m not an American so maybe I am missing something but did the American voter really expect the democrats to repair 8 years of gross mismanagement by the Bush regime in less then two years?

Thank You for being able to see what it is. There are too many people out there that have NO FUCKING CLUE!!

Beach; Work with the republicans??? He tried, but they prefer to go by the nickname of the party of NO! now that they have control of the house, will they try to govern? or spend their time going on witch hunts? I suspect the latter.

I'm not running for office so I can say how much Obama's appeasement with these Nazis-- yes Nazis-- strikes me of weak-willed England pre-Churchill.

Remember the PIL song: This is what you want, this is what you get.

They're coming for our Social Security money. Hope you can hang on and stay employed until 70.

Hope those on fixed incomes can hang on as the dollar devalues per MONTH.

Watch the stock market rise inexorably on the pump and dump by Bernacke. Too bad I don't have enough money to pump into oil and gold stocks.

You who are profiting now, better be nimble. Last one in the conga line will get FUCKED.

If you are in the camp who believes that a huge and ever expanding activist government is far more likely to do something TO you than to do something FOR you..... Then you see gridlock and "party of no" as good things.

Bring on any radical right wing agenda you want and bring on Obama's veto pen and let them tear each other apart. All I know is that the federal government will be too preoccupied with infighting to shove a whole bunch of new laws up my asshole for at least the next two years and probably allot longer. Ahhhh peaceful, wonderful, glorious gridlock. Put's a smile on my face just thinking about it.

Isawal,

You see, it wasn't the Republicans' fault, it was the Democrats. If there had been less regulation, if there had been lower taxes, if the Democrats hadn't forced the mortgage brokers to sell of those shoddy mortgages, if GM and Chrysler and Citibank and the rest of Wall Street had been allowed to go under, it would have all been better.

Why don't you understand?

How is it that every time there is a post about politics on here it gets the most action? This is a monger site, right?

Why didn't the democrats throw some people in jail over the whole banking debacle? Or at minimum run a bunch of attack ads during the last election. Oh yea, I know why, because Democrats have just as much blood on their hands as any Republican. To much guilt to go around Washington. When they all are more or less keeping quiet on the subject, in a time when they have vast teams of investigators digging dirt on their opponents, that pretty much tells you something.

AZguy: The political threads are here to assist those who suffer from premature ejaculation. Accordingly, they are entirely appropriate for a monger site. If at any time one feels he is going to ejaculate too quickly, just thinking about this thread or any of the the other political threads will make the urge to ejaculate go away (with the caveat the opposite seems to apply to Beachman).

(Message edited by laguy on November 04, 2010)

There is an alternate explanation for why more people have not been thrown in jail over the banking debacle. A lot of what was done was not illegal (at least to my understanding) owing to the extreme amount of financial sector deregulation that occurred up to the time of the crash or near-crash.

It is interesting though that while IAS would like these people thrown in jail, at the same time he hopes for political gridlock which would assure that no new laws prohibiting financial sector excesses come into existence (OTOH, I realize some have already been passed, although almost became the victim of legislative gridlock).

But I admit I am no expert on all this (what I have presented above is a semi-educated theory), so if IAS or anyone else can point to specific laws that were violated by "big fish" but not prosecuted, I would be interested in the details.

(Message edited by laguy on November 04, 2010)

Since Sep 2008, there has been only one issue that the American people care about. JOBS. It is the first, second, third and fourth priority.

Obama's problem was that he didn't make it his first priority. It was health care. Then he delegated the most important priority to idiots that Bush had put in place.

If unemployment had been at 8% instead of 10%, I believe that the elections would have been very different.

But the Republicans are now choosing to read this election as a mandate of everything Obama. This is a huge mistake. The message from the American people is JOBS. It should now be the Republicans responsibility to work on JOBS too. They are not, and I bet they will not.

If Obama can get unemployment down, he will get reelected. I don't know whether he has the wherewithal to do it, but he should at least begin acknowledging that he correctly understands what the Americans want.

In some ways it is a race between Obama and the Republicans to see which one focuses on jobs first. There are many things that Obama can do without approval of Congress to improve the jobs situation. He should start there.

(Message edited by bluestraveller on November 04, 2010)

I am Sancho....

You are right nobody has gone to jail over the banking debacle....quite the opposite under the Democrats watch..... most of the people and companies have gotten richer hoarding the bailout money.

But our court system sure knows how to go after anyone who illegally downloads songs.....

http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/amplifier/148/minnesota-mom-hit-with-15-million-fine-for-downloading-24-songs/

The biggest plus in all of this is that now we might see Bachman's bill "that would bar the dollar from being replaced by any foreign currency" might get revived. This hilarity actually outmatched Tom Delay's efforts on Terri Schiavo's behalf.

AZGUY, seems like this is the perfect place for Washington politics discusions. They are the biggest whores on earth.

Bluelight-

Ooooh Snap!

Well it's good to hear that even the hardcore lefties agree Obama's off course and out of step.

This is all playing out remarkably like Clinton's first 2 years when he let Hillary run the show. Health care reform and gay rights were out of step with american priorities in the 90's. Two years later when Newt Gingrich and the Repubs swept the House, Clinton became more of a centrist that watched the polls and accomplished a lot during the subsequent 6 years of his presidency.

Will Obama wake up and smell the coffee too? We'll see.

Keith Olberman......I like the part about Olberman being MSNBC's biggest star.....what about 30 people wat him every night.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20101105/bs_yblog_upshot/msnbc-suspends-olbermann-over-political-contributions

Blue, no kidding. They ALL are a bunch of whores (and not the kind we like). Both sides. Not one more than the other. Repub's waste our money in conflicts we have no business in and dem's want to give it away to people that didnt earn it. I am fucking sick of it. I know, I know, everyone needs a helping hand every once and a while, but we have created just a shit load of dependents out there. Not fair to them, not fair to us.

Blast away guys, but I know what I go through to make a buck. Not fun to just give it away to the government.

Hopefully this does tone down Obama with his agenda. In my opinion, Clinton in his second term, most likely did the best job of any president we have had in a long time.

PS I realize they were not hot issues for this election cycle, but did you guys notice how the repub didnt bring up any moral issues, values, abortion? Pretty smart on their part.

OK, there, I joined in the discussion and will most likely regret it.

All that proves is that MSNBC has higher standards than FOX.

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, to hear that Keith Olberman may be partisan. What is the journalism coming to? Next you'll try to tell me Glenn Beck is a political partisan too. <gasp>

In reality me thinks no one on any side of the political spectrum really cares much that Keith Olberman gave a few grand to go against Rand Paul and/or whomever. It's not like his political views are some well kept secret. Instead me thinks Olberman's ratings are in the shithole and management was looking for a convenient excuse to replace the guy.

I find it exceedingly difficult to read political punditry these days where complete illiterate idiots, such as beachworm, gloat over the rapid destruction of the United States of America by their political allies.

The republicans have FOUR commodities to sell, and they sell them exceedingly well: (1) HATE, (2) FEAR, (3) GREED, and (4) STUPIDITY.

HATE has different boogiemen in each election cycle. It began with black people after Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights act. From there it evolved into a false Christianity that demonized women making their own reproductive decisions and that continues to this day. Religious hatred then turned against God’s own children because God made them gay. Other targets of hate have included welfare recipients and unionized workers. Now we have a full blown hatred against brown people visiting from the southern side of our national border. Hate is a driving force and powerful motivator. Compassion leads to despair is emotionally numbing. People who hate are dependable voters. People who have given up hope stay home. The republican establishment has been working tirelessly for two years to misrepresent the good things that Democrats have accomplished and to destroy hope. This would not have been possible without their FAUX NEWZ propaganda ministry and thousands of HATE RADIO stations funded by greedy corporate masters. In this most recent election, voter turnout was about 40%, this is truly dismal and this republican surge would have been considerably smaller in presidential election year.

FEAR is also a shifting bogeyman. At first it was the communists, then nuclear annihilation, then urban crime, then hippies, then LIBERALS, then unions, then welfare recipients, then taxes, then Mexican drug wars and now the greatest fear is unemployment. Let’s face facts: Ronald Reagan is the greatest traitor in our national history! Granted the man had a folksy charisma that made his true agenda feel comforting. He was also brain dead for most of his Presidency while others damaged our nation in his name. However, unaffordable tax cuts, extreme budget deficits, exploding national debt, exporting middle class jobs and the unholy “Christian Coalition” came into being under Reagan’s watch and this fiscal insanity has been the Republican Party mantra ever since. The fiscal time bomb finally exploded during the last year of George W. Bush’s watch and the Republicans made a brilliant move in turning over the reins of government to Democrats then portraying our collapsing economy on the only political party that has the intellect and willingness to address the fundamental problems. Another crucial element of fear involved convincing gun loving nut jobs that the second amendment give you the personal right to own any weapon ever invented and to believe that Democrats were going to take it all away.

GREED is part of human nature. The first step to exploiting greed is to convince the average man that his labors and his earnings are being taken away by the government to support some lazy welfare freeloader. Republicans have been very successful in that regard, but in the process they have deflated the earnings of a majority of working people and concentrated the wealth of the masses into great wealth for the top two percent. In reality, they have taken away from the middle class to build a massively unnecessary military industrial complex and to pursue wars against imaginary enemies. GREED was also in direct conflict with the charitable beliefs or true Christians, so Republicans had to bastardize that religion to fit their needs. They did this with assistance of billionaire charlatans such as Pat Robertson and James Dobson. The greed element of republican philosophy is further demonstrated in the recent Supreme Court decision made by far right Bush appointees that allow a few extremely wealthy individuals to anonymously finance massive fraudulent attack advertisements against honest politicians that actually put the interests of humanity above the interests of the corporations.

STUPIDITY is demonstrated by every lower and middle class Republican voting against thier own best interest and advocating for tax cuts that only benefit the very wealthy. Jobs are NOT created by tax cuts. Jobs can be created by hiring incentives, but only in cases where the company actually needs people to produce or market product. The best way to create new jobs would be a law creating a four day 36 hour work week with 10% salary reduction. People would be happier and new jobs would be created to maintain the man hours. Anybody that thinks their employer provided health insurance is so wonderful that they advocate repeal of health insurance reforms implemented by the Democrats should lose their coverage and face reality. The true cost of all benefits should be shown in the gross earnings on your pay stub and deducted from your net earnings. Conservative thinking is based on ignorance and conservative world view is based on an arrogant delusion that America is morally superior to every other nation.

REPUBLICAN STUPIDITY is exemplified by BEACHMAN. No further evidence is necessary.

----------------------


(Message edited by Hot4ass2 on November 05, 2010)

It must really suck to have your guys constantly being outwitted by morons.

IAS: No kidding! We agree on something!! (although now that I think of it, we still have the Presidency and the Senate, so in the long run I'm not sure who is outwitting who).

As to Olbermann, that's a good start. Now if we could just get rid of snarky Rachel Maddow and maybe Chris (can't stop from interrupting other people) Matthews, the liberals might be able develop a network they can be proud of.

Actually, for my money the best of the bunch insofar as these types of shows go is MSNBC's Morning Joe which has reasonable and often intelligent conversations (not shouting matches) that include representatives of all viewpoints. However, although I can sometimes stay up until 3 am to start watching it here on the correct coast, I'm in bed before it is over (but then again, there is the podcast, which is issued very shortly after the show concludes and includes about 30 minutes of the show)

You guy's should salvage Matthews. Prior to Obama I used to watch that guy all the time. He was in the category of, I generally disagreed with him but held him in the highest respect. Then Obama came along and that guy got all glassy eyed like a mindless cult member or something. Sad. But I'm convinced Matthews is still salvageable. I still value a worthy opponent.

"hatred against brown people visiting from the southern side of our national border"

wow, I never really thought of them as "visitors". I guess if you put it that way, we have been pretty fucking rude to our visitors, huh?

Fall cleaning California style

I agree with AZguy (which is particularly satifying given that we share the same last name). Hot4ass should have just said Republicans are trying to foster "hatred against brown people" and not qualified it with the visiting part.

By the way, I'm thinking of starting a new foundation. Unfortunately, the first one, which I started in 1999 and was to provide eyeglasses to the elderly in Palm Beach, Florida so they could accurately read their ballots, failed to generate any income, and look what happened as a result.

My new foundation is more specific. It will use all its funds for research to find a cure to the Nancy Pelosi tight smile that results from overly aggressive face lifts. I am sure that if we could just rid Nancy Pelosi of her really not attractive smile the Democrats could re-take the House (just as a good diet plan or liposuction would have prevented all the humiliating Republican ads that essentially tried to win seats for Republicans by parodying Tip O'Neill's weight problem).

It may not be much, but I try to do what I can.

Hot4ass2 - I just figured out who you are. I didn't even know you where a member here. 5 years you've been here and never said anything about it. WOW.

Props to you hot4ass2 for your manifesto. You took 5,000 words right out of my mouth.

And I agree with IAS about how much it sucks to watch this country being destroyed by morons following morons - but it is kind of what you expect. The least common denominator is where you expect democracy to go in societies like ours that clearly have much evolution yet to achieve. The Obama/Dem surge of '08 could not have happened without 8 years of Dubya preceding. Even morons can only take so much.

Damn, they put legalization of marijuana on the ballot in California and millions of people who smoked it once and smoke it now obviously voted no, including politicians and police officers who endorsed the "no" side. A political star in NY State who was in part propelled by his fearless prosecutions of prostitution in the state is drummed out of office since he's actually a big bucks monger.

Yes as a nation we are more moron than moral or rational. We don't deal from facts or logic, but from emotion generated by big lies perpetrated by lying liars who are not expressing their actual opinions, who don't actually stand for anything, but are simply marketing themselves on the knowledge that lies sell to morons who feel the catharsis that comes with endorsing their primitive instincts to bask in hatred and greed. This is the true political correctness of the current era.

Medical marijuana in Arizona was way closer than I thought it would be. Lost by less than 5,000 votes. Really surprised CA didnt pass legalization. Whats up with that my liberal brother, LAguy?

btw, both sides need a boogyman to keep themselves relevant.

For the record, I voted YES on Prop. 19 and encouraged all Republicans I know to do likewise. No idea why it didn't pass. In any case, kind of irrelevant when weed dealers are already openly advertising "medical" marijuana on the radio while I'm driving to work in the morning and the county government is issuing (for a price) official goberment approved dope smoker ID cards.

The whole subject just gives me a headache..... and their is only one thing that cures my headaches.....Hey, does Obamacare cover curing my headaches?????? Because for some reason my current health insurance does not cover my particular type of headaches.

AZGUY, Look at the dismal turnout in Arizona. Only 43% of registered voters and the electoral results prove the great majority of those that did vote were right wing nut jobs. I believe that Prop 203 for Medical Marijuana would have won in a presidential year.

The only reason that Giffords survived is because she is a better republican than that raving extreme right lunatic who ran against her. The GOP lost that race when they rejected Jonathon Paton during the primary. Every reputable news outlet pegged Jesse Kelly as a lying sack of shit.

Grijalva has such a large registration advantage that McClung never should have been close. Especially considering that McClung did not have the guts to show up at scheduled debates.

Democrats are to blame for this disasterous election because they DID NOT SHOW UP. Far too many DEMS only vote for president then forget about the rest of the ballot.

Nobody in their right mind wants the same tired shit that republicans are still selling.

---------------------------

(Message edited by Hot4ass2 on November 06, 2010)

There is no such thing as "Obamacare" - just another big lie. The health bill we ended up with was not what Obama wanted and the electorate and congress cheerleaded for in '08. It is just the product of another preposterous compromise after concessions are given to GOP and Dems who have special interests hands on their balls. Obama settled for it as better than nothing after fighting for a bill with real impact to the bloody disgraceful end of the legislative process. If you hadn't noticed, the system doesn't work. For congress it is never really about doing something positive for the country, it is about acquisition and retention of power - if you hadn't noticed.

The pot prop failed in part for the lack of a campaign - most of the money that would be behind it deciding that this was not the year to put their money down since fewer liberal voters would come to the polls than in a presidential election year.

I also believe that the latino vote which is California's saving grace in this era, is a socially conservative block. I suspect the same of a majority of black voters. They'll vote democrat in huge majorities, but legal dope wouldn't be their thing. Maybe need to get some NORML speakers into the inner city churches before 2012 and fight the ignorance.

I am thinking the guys that were for passing the marijuana bills just stayed home and made another batch of nachos.

Grijalva's supporters are going to go for him no matter what, but he didnt help himself when he supported the AZ boycotts. What a bonehead.

AzGuy,

Grijalva absolutely fucked up by advocating a boycott because that boycott was already happening and is sure to escalate when the lunatics that took total control of the Arizona state legislature begin to introduce next years batch of "we hate brown people" bills.

The enemies of Public Education that took over the offices of Attorney General and Superintendent of Public Instruction will also assure that Arizona does not gain any new jobs that require an educated workforce.

These are very dark times for Arizona. Fortunately, I do not have any children in the Arizona "school" system and I can leave this beautiful state full of vile people just as soon as my job disappears. The big decision is whether my next home is Philippines or Thailand.

H4A2

AZguy, close but no cigar on the nachos thing. The real reason the marijuana bill did not pass in California was because all the marijuana users had moved on, as everyone knows they are prone, to shooting heroin and smoking crack cocaine. Unfortunately, this, along with the unfair prohibition on crack smoking at polling places, got in the way of them exercising their civic responsibilities to vote.

(Message edited by laguy on November 07, 2010)

Alright guys!

(Hot Chick Intermission)




Thought I'd oblige Az's initial concern, as well as keep relevant to the shift in topic..

H4A2, That hatred and intolerance against people who are different than you is going to eat you up inside. It's a game. You are taking it way to serious. And you just plain sound ignorant and silly saying you plan to "leave this beautiful state full of vile people" by moving to Thailand. Are you aware that Thailand's laws and actual actions against illegal immigration make the most extremest hardliners in Arizona look incredibly lenient in comparison. Perhaps you are unaware of how openly and blatantly raciest Thai people are because they are only racist is some kind of feerene language you don't understand. I suspect the real reason you are anxious to retire to Thailand or the Philippines is because like many of us you enjoy exploiting the economic inequality of poor women who have not been widely exposed to feminist agendas. If you were looking to retire someplace that embraced liberal politics, you would avoid SE Asia like a plague. Could I suggest San Fransisco as a more progressive alternative, devoid of the " "vile people" you hate so much it seems to be ruining your life.

Sancho,

You nailed it, I want to be where the LBFMs are. I find Thailand and Asia fascinating in many regards, but that would surely wear off over a year or so and racism would become evident over time. I would return to America eventually.

I do not have hatred or intolerance for people of other ethnic or racial backgrounds. I only despise those fucking worthless vile self righteous republicans that are destroying America.

For a liberal oasis I would chose Amsterdam or Denmark, but those countries are mighty expensive. America is in serious decline and Arizona is pushing for the bottom.

H4A2

But if you are endeavoring to outsource US jobs to Thailand so you can exploit economically disadvantaged brown skinned people, and roll back gender equality, doesn't that make YOU a Republican?

H4A2

I hear that in many countries in Africa there is no racism....maybe you would like to move there........it would be easy for you to implement all your liberal policies over there......


By the way.....how many people do you employ and pay for all of their benefits?

This thread is nothing but

Your in Rio and wasting time answering Beachman......... That's the equivalent of Sienfield hosting a testimonial for Newman.

Lol CFK..Im actually watching Sienfield right now...George calls Beijing to get the cure for baldness..."you grow hair, make you look like Joseph Stalin..are there any side effects?, Yeah..what? Impotence...lol" Classic..

So.....Yup! This thread is done..;)

Beach Worm, 163, Now pull your head out of your ass and try to beat that number instead of beating your meat and pooping all over this site. BTW, it is a union shop because I demand highly skilled employees, H4A2

(Message edited by Hot4ass2 on November 09, 2010)

I think we could all use a little humor here.