There is a certain category of monger who believes mongering is a type of fairly tale existence. To us, TJ, BA , Rio and other mongering destinations are like the mythical Camelot and mongers are noble fellow knights of the roundtable. In our fantasy, many of the chicas are living lives of sin and misery in the House of the Rising Sun are really Cinderella's, awaiting a Prince Charming to place glass slippers on their feet and whisk them to a place far, far away where they can live happily ever after. ( I know, I am mixing many a metaphor here.....but this is my story, let me tell it my way)

Call it naiveté. Call it stupidity or eternal optimism. Whatever the proper label, many a monger holds near and dear these grand illusions.

There is a second category of monger, more cynical and without rose colored glasses. To us chicas are where they are because they want to be there. And the thought of fellow mongers as noble knights is laughable. Have a good time, share a few laughs with chicas and other mongers, but to survive you need to watch your back, your heart and,above all, guard your wallet. Do these things and you will be fine.

The astute reader will note that I used the plural pronoun "us" for both categories. I say us in both cases with good reason, for I am one who wants very much to believe in fairy tales. At the same time I am also keenly aware that fairy tales are for children, and TJ, BA, etc, are adult playgrounds.

It is with this background that I tell you the following story......

Once upon a time, I had a BA favorita who expressed to me her desire to flee her life of prostitution and find a new means of earning a living. As you can imagine, this statement of hope for a better life touched all of my fairy tale buttons. Why, I reasoned to myself, all this poor chica needs is a noble knight such as myself to provide a little help and she is out of here, destined for a new life as a business woman, lawyer, or engineer.

And so I devised an agreement with her. I would provide monthly support equal to the amount of her average monthly earnings in exchange for her enrolling in school and not working any longer as a prostitute. The arrangement was month to month. Any time she wanted to return to work all she needed to do was say she wanted to go back to her boliche and there would be no hard feelings.

There was a second part to this arrangement. I would help her launch a new, second career in the adult tourism business. She would meet newbie BA mongers that I might send her way. She would show them around town, help with travel details, and set up dates for them to ease the transition to a new locale.

This part of my deal with her included a specific provision that she would not, under any circumstances work as a prostitute with hombres I sent her way. As I told her, I did not want to be her manager or pimp.

The time came when a fellow hombre, held in high regard by hombres in other parts of the world, decided to travel to BA for the first time. Pablo (not his handle here, nor his real name) had contacted me for basic info, which I gladly provided. Incidently, I added, I have this friend who is trying to create for herself a new life....if you are interested she could show you around and introduce you to her friends. But, I added, if I put you in contact with her it is only so you can use her services as an entree to Buenos Aires and for her to introduce you to some of her friends. I will not provide you with contact information for you to have sex with her. I do not wish to become her pimp, I explained.

Pablo's response relieved any doubts I had. Why, no, he assured me. I am excited about your attempts to help her leave the business of prostitution and would be grateful to have her assist me to meet chicas and find my way around town. Rest assured I will treat her with respect and only as a guide.

I spoke with her on the day her first non-sexual client arrived. She was excited and very nervous. She wanted to be successful, to prove to herself she could do something other than offer her body for rent.

A day later she phoned me back, and said she had had a confusing phone conversation with Pablo. She thought he wanted her to accompany him and one of the girls he had met to Iguazu Falls. Perhaps because of the language barrier she did not understand his request. Did I know anything about this? No, I replied, this is beyond the scope of anything we had discussed. Well, she concluded, since I am not sure this is what he wanted, let me work it out. Please, she asked of me, do not mention this to Pablo.

To make a long story short, the next time I spoke with her the enthusiasm was gone from her voice. She did not want to talk about her work with Pablo any longer. So I suspected something was amiss here.

Sure enough, on my next trip to BA I found out what had happened. Pablo did not care for her friends. He wanted her. Whether it was the money, his charm, or whatever, she succumbed and went along on his trip.

He is long since gone. My relationship with my favorita is forever changed. Absent my money, she will go back to chain smoking and sitting around her boliche night after night waiting for the next aging, overweight gringo to come along and offer her 150pesos for an hour of fun. She will provide a quality service. And life goes on.

I am not so much hurt for myself as for her. The optimist in me believes this was not just some scam on her part from the beginning. I think she did want to leave prostitution, and thought she could. But now she is more resigned to her place in life, and less likely to try to escape again..

Lessons learned.....There is something to the adage: Once a prostitute always a prostitute.

I knew it before, but I am more convinced than ever of the veracity of this statement. Frankly, I was from the outset that the likelihood of success was slim. I had high hopes, but realistic expectations is how I like to frame it.

Here is something new I have learned, and is probably as true as the once-a-prostitute-always-a-prostitute adage......There is no honor among thieves or mongers.

Let me quickly add a caveat.....many of us have favoritas among working girls. If another hombre wants to take her up or out while she is working, that is his right....that's what she is there for. But his situation was different. Her role was different, and Pablo was given access to her name/phone number based upon a very explicit understanding that he would under no circumstances use this information to "date" her, but only to help orient him and provide introductions to others.

Do not mourn for me. I have already moved on, sadder but wiser, though still not convinced that despite my bad experiences, there are not Cinderella chicas and Ivanhoe hombres in our world.

I completely understand the situation Ezy is in. I have been talking to him via emails and even the phone before and he explained what he was trying to do for his amiga. I gave him my input. I knew from the start it would be very difficult but there was hope.

I totally agree this situation was different. I'm not one of those guys that thinks you should never get together with another girl that another hombre has been with. But this is different. Frankly I think this "Pablo" dude is trash. There are so many girls in BA for him to have betrayed Ezy's friendship. If you're reading this Pablo I hope you feel like the dog that you are.

This is a good reminder that some things will never change. The life of these girls is so tough to break out of the cycle of prostitution. Even with a helping hand.

I know you're past this Ezy but you have my sincere condolences. Not all hobbyist are like that. Buenas suerte mi amigo.

Ezy:

You represent a true minority among the hobbyist community that sincerely offered a helping hand - you should be commended for your actions in attempting this girl - you should not feel regretful at all - but that won't take away the feeling of betrayal, I know.

In summary and my mantra continues to be that working girls are just that. During the time one is with them they should be treated with absolute respect and kindness. I have not been to Rio or BA so have not experienced the charms of gals, but one needs to draw a line for sanity's sake.

I certainly would provide a tip if I had a great time and also take her to dinner or lunch at a nice restaurant and even buy her some little trinkets, perfumes or clothes - within limits. This would all be if the girl provided great services and had a great non-rushed approach and enjoyed chatting with her. But again, that is it - no more money for "sick" relatives, or english classes or other things that may be sincere (most likely not) - we have to preserve our emotions.

Just my random thoughts.

Sorry about this situation, EZY. I guess the money is too good hard for them to resist.

Take care Amigo, we've all been there. You are among friends.

Moondog

Ezy, have you talked to "Pablo" and gotten his side of the story?

Let me say that I fully understand that you would be upset about this. But at who? Seems to me you need more information on exactly how this situation evolved.

I would point out that if this was her first attempt at this new line of work, it's probably a pretty steep learning curve. Maybe this is a case where giving her a break is in order. I really don't know the situation, and I won't judge. I will say though that by her working on the edges of the business is a very high risk endeavor.

But I do know that I do reject both adages, but I've been told I wear rose colored glasses over my rose tinted contact lenses. Ironically, I've been told that by a good friend whom I've made on this board.

Ezy, just to make a point, would you offer all of this assistance to even a family member, say a cousin or a nephew or something who desired a career change? HELL NO you wouldn't. Why do it for some chick you've spent MAYBE a few weeks with? And then to feel bad when it doesn't work out? Big mistake.

Re: 'Pablo', not a classy move, but guys go a little crazy where women are involved sometimes. Err, uh, present company excluded, of course...

I respect any chica who decides it's time to move on with her life and do something better. But is it EVER my responsibility to make that happen for her?

BTW, as I'm sure you know, sending money to someone you barely know who's half way around the world based on some sort of 'trust' is pretty damned stupid. Live and learn.

One more question: What would you say the chances are that you will get even ONE night with her free of charge in exchange for the thousands of dollars you gave her? Well, two questions: How many would it take for her to work it off with you?

Porker, I have only given her $1,800 to date under my new agreement....for this I received 10 nights in August, and 7 additional nights in October. Meals, shopping, etc...was extra, sorry no exact dollar figure to calculate into the equation...but any way you look at it 17 days for $1800 is not bad. I hadn't reduced it to dollars for services before, but when I look at it like this, hey, I didn't do too bad....

Godfather. Gracias, amigo

Moondog. That's exactly what she said...the money was too tempting.

Billfromreading. RE: Pablo's side of the story. Let's just say that he knows my feelings about his actions. Perhaps he will post his side of the story here. It might make interesting reading.

Porker. Wrong answer....I guess your question was rhetorical? My answer to your question, is yes I would and have offered help to extended family members....something about karma or what goes round comes round or doing unto others as you would have them do to you....

Ezy, you're obviously a nice guy, and I didn't mean to come down too hard. It's just that this seemed like a very bad idea from the start.

Your 'return on investment' indeed doesn't sound too bad. I didn't realize you had spent all that time with her off the clock.

Next time you have money burning a hole in your pocket, though, remember your good buddy Porker the poorest monger in the Western hemisphere! I MAKE A GOOD CHARITY CASE!!!

Ezy, you and I have talked at length about this and though in what I hoped was a gentle way tried to dampen your hopes that the relationship would work out, I am nonetheless sorry for both of you it didn't blossom as I know you hoped. Also, I expect you may hear more from her. Either way, give me a holler if I can help over the rough spots.

P.S. Who you callin' old and fat??

sf hombre...indeed we did discuss this situation at length...indeed you did try to prepare me for the inevitable....and indeed you were kind, much kinder than I am when I have similar conversations with myself...I can be a nasty bastard when trying to persuade the naive part of me that believes in fairy tales to get real! Life aint like that.....

if you read my post about Eliana, the chica whose # you secured for me, you will know that I am mending nicely.....

and if I hear from favorita again, well, maybe I can manipulate another night or two to further reduce the per night cost of the dollars I have provided her.....

Oh geeze, where to start?

I gave up long ago on any "honor among thieves" - and I am refering to fellow mongers, NOT las chicas!

It seems in the early days we did indeed have some honor and respect among the TJ Mongers, but it got flushed down the toilet long ago. That is a major reason you don't see a lot of the old timers from TJ on the board any longer.

Heck, I have even run into some mongers who get off on taking chicas away from other mongers! They purposely look for chicas that are involved with another guy - because they like the challenge!

But don't give up on the chicas.

Sometimes it can work. I know, cause I have been down that path. In my case it didn't work out romantically between the two of us, but she is happy running her own business, and last I heard she is doing well.

In my case the approach was a little different. I asked her how much money she needed each month in order to stop work and go to school. We drew up a budget. I then proceeded to send her that amount each month.

We got together for some wonderful vacations, and I don't regret a single dime I gave her. I never believed that she fit in or was suited to be a hooker, and I was happy I could help her get out. If all I ever got from it was the feeling I had when she graduated, or in the beginning when she realized what I was offering her - that feeling was enough. The good times we spent together were just a bonus.

So, it can happen. It can work out for la chica. It takes determination on her part, support on your part (not just $$), and a lot of luck. Plus, I think it helps if she does something completely unrelated to "the hobby".

Ezy,

Sorry to hear the news. On the plus side you found out now. Sounds like the financial damage was not yet too bad. Chin up, and thanks for all your help in getting started in BA.

Nomar

Ezy. I would not give up on all mongers. I have met a couple on this board, and have no reason to believe or mistrust the items we have discussed, or the information that has been exchanged.

Also, there were some understandings about the information exchanged, and from everything I can see, all parties have lived up to their ends of the bargain.

Sorry about your experience.

CP

curious....I think you are on target about some hombres liking the challenge of taking chicas away from other mongers....sad state of affairs, but true..Thanks for the more positive comments about hope for chicas...

nomar...as with SF hombre you gently told me it wasn't gonna work. As I said in my post, I had high hopes but much more reasonable expectations.

CP...as I tried to say in my post, I think the addage about "no honor among mongers" is probably as accurate (and as inaccurate) as the conclusion that "once a puta always a puta." There are honorable hombres, and skunks. There are chicas who will jump at a chance to escape their lifestyle, and chicas who are putas baratas.....generalizations are difficult....
Hopefully we can get together one day and share stories over a beer somewhere in Recoleta....

Bill; I didn't say that.

Porker; I would rather throw my money to trinket girls before I give it to you.

Ezy; What were you expecting from this "investment"? Were you thinking about more than (not so) "free" sex? Specifically, a life together with her? If this is the case, why did you make an agreement like "Any time she wanted to return to work all she needed to do was say she wanted to go back to her boliche and there would be no hard feelings"? That's admitting a defeat before it actuall happens. If you and she were serious about quitting, you needed a firmer resolve.

And Bill is right. At who are you upset? Her choice of new "career" was too close to her old job, showing around sex scenes to mongers. If nothing had happened with Pablo, something would have happened with the next guy. Or the guy after him.

Sorry, if I sounded too blunt. But, it sounds your (and her) plan wasn't thought out well.

Some things in life are not a "risk reward ratio" or a "return on investment". While I would advise against giving money to a working girl outside of the client/provider relationship who can fault a guy for wanting to help a person out in need.

I myself have given a few hundred dollars to an amiga I met in Buenos Aires. She has NEVER asked for ANY money. She is NOT a provider and works very hard and makes very little. I help her just to help. To do something nice. In the grand scheme of things helping someone is helping someone. I even opened a US bank account for her and I put in a few hundred pesos every month for her. I stopped giving to the United Way at work and "donate" my money to other "causes" in South America... ha, ha.

I think some of you are missing the point of Ezy's post. I'm sure he doesn't need me to speak for him but I think many are missing the point. I'm sure he knew how difficult it would be for her to stay away from her work but he had hope. In fact, he probably knew she would return. The thing that bothered him the most was probably the fact of how this all went down.

Many are thinking in terms in dollars when in fact money had very little to do with this scenario. I think this also serves as a good example of why it's probably not a good idea to get too involved with a chica that is a provider. I've met some girls in Buenos Aires that tell me to forget how I met them. They ask if we can pretend that we met in a restaurant or a cafe. Of course I say "sure" but I'll never forget how I met them and that is probably for the better.

Good luck amigos.

I perfectly understand that Ezy was NOT thinking about "return on investment" when he was giving her money. He told us "(he) hadn't reduced it to dollars for services before". If he was looking at the agreement as a sex-for-money exchange, then she never quit being a prostitute.

I just think he and she needed a firmer commitiment than "all she needed to do was say she wanted to go back to her boliche and there would be no hard feelings", if they really wanted this to work out.

Of course, I am talking with the benefit of hindsight.

Ezy,

In true guy fashion, we're trying to fix things. I suppose if you wanted emotional support you could talk to some chicas.

Anyway, two things come immediately to mind:

1- Gnome's Rule of Emotional Inertia: Any situation (dating, marriage, emotional-withdrawal) which is essentially stable will remain so until enough violent emotion is injected to overcome the "gravity well" of day-to-day living.

This applies to wives of beating husbands, loveless marriages, and in this case emotionless sex with an endless series of strangers.

So first off, I don't think she had enough "skin in the game" to IMPEL her in a different direction.

2- The AA rules for recovery: Don't try to wean yourself off. Quit cold turkey.

If she's going to get out of the sex business, then she needs to buy some land and a cow and start something that doesn't involved beds, mattresses, condoms, bathing suits, sucking dicks in a stairwell, or any sex-industry participant. Arguably including YOU, although you may get dispensation as her soup kitchen.

But realistically, if she's going to get out, then the first time you and she have intimate contact she's whoring at a different scale.

When that happens, the phenomenon called "transferrance" will take place. She will NOT be climbing her way out of puta-dom. Instead, she'll be exchanging "Hey, Joe, I do strip-tease and sucky-fucky for fifty dolla, okay?" style prostitution for "Hey, Ezy, I'll read a few chapters on real estate and let you fuck me in the ass in exchange for a months worth of groceries and fags plus some spending money, okay?"

I like what you were doing. Certainly, five years from now when she's got her feet under her she'd be a great person to know. She could probably get you phone numbers for all her daughter's friends, or whatever.

But in the meantime, you've got to refine your plan -- you don't get to the moon by building a better airplane.

Dem Long-Winded Gnomes

Ezy,
As a fellow illusionist it occurs to me that there is a great deal of wisdom in the discussion that you started in "Once a puta always a puta." The exchange produced many ideas on how and why chicas leave the business. Many thought that the temptation of dollars and attention, combined with the few good job alternatives, made it very difficult to leave prostitution. Your attempt to help her leave the job was a sincere effort at something that must fail 99+% of the time. It seems more likely to succeed when initiated by the chica, is carried out through her actions (only partially supported, if at all, by an hombre) and involves a change of venue. Your plan had too much Ezy, and not enough favorita, her family, friends, and a new setting.

As for the monger, I think what he did was thoughtless (stupid) or he's an asshole. Either he didn't understand the value you placed on your request or he simply could care less. The good news is there are many more favoritas in BA to use your mousetrap on. Enjoy your November trip. I'm still jealous.
Nomar

Ezy,

I enjoyed tremendously in reading your story. However, I was surprised to learn that you had paid her $1800 for 17 days of stay with her. So, by providing "monthly support equal to the amount of her average monthly earnings", you in fact did not break the prostitute cycle; you only made her the exclusive one to you. If I take a cynical view, her choice was not entirely whether prostitution or not. Rather, she had every right to feel it was only a choice between choosing you or keeping her freedom.

I understand these women have expenses to pay. However, their income from prostitution is way too much over expenses for a decent living. Therefore, if I were to find out whether a prostitute truly wants a normal life, I would only offer the money for necessities. The chance is that they would never accept that. The short term gain is just too good to pass up. Hence the adage once a prostitute always a prostitute.

Eze. Right now, if nothing changes, I will be in BA from 11/21 until 11/27. Maybe SP for a couple days after that.

CP

Porker...my therapy involves seeking the comfort of many, many women....so the money I was sending my ex-favorita is already spent and then some....if you would like I could send you fotos as a consolation prize...

Byron. excellent point: Yes, we needed a firmer resolve and, in answer to the question of what I wanted out of my "investment"--I wanted to help her transition out of a profession she said she wanted to leave. It was me as a friend and lover extending help to someone I cared about very much. Did I imagine we would have a life together? No. My hope was that she would establish herself in another business,and when she was ready, meet someone from the straight world with whom she could share a future.

Gnomes: hmm. re Rule 1: yes, You make an interesting point. Often in life behavioral change requires a radical shift if one is to overcome the "gravity well" of day to day living. It is this gravity well that makes it so difficult for victims of spouse abuse to leave....wish I had thought of this point before rather than after the fact....re:rule 2--quitting cold turkey. Rule 1 provides the theoretical underpinning for rule 2, I suppose. And, you are right....quitting cold turkey means just that...a radical shift. We did discuss this, but there is not much money to be made in Argentina by buying a cow and a piece of land. The plan we devised would have enabled her to have the money needed to support her lifestyle and leave prostitution...but in retrospect I can see that this is simply having your cake and eating it too...

Nomar: Exacto! I took her vaguely stated wish, and turned it into Ezy's plan for favorita. Too much Ezy, too little favorita and her support group. Well put!
re: the other hombre....He understood well, very well, the value placed on my request. In him, I sensed a kindred spirit as he has helped chicas from other parts of the world in similar ways. Hence, via email we exchanged many a thought. So, since we can rule out misunderstanding, that leaves asshole. re: november....si, hay muchas chicas en Buenos Aires....mas que una pesca en el mar is what I told my now exfavorita......

Antonio...to clarify, I gave her $600 per month for three months, totalling $1800. During this time I was in Argentina 17 days. But this does not detract from your larger point that the choice was me or her freedom....Next time, if there is a next time, I will use the Antonio method...show me a budget of basic expenses! This is what I will give you, nothing more.

CP: Nov 20-26 are my dates. I am looking for a temp apartment, so I don't know where I will be staying, but I will send you a note in your inbox when I have firmed up my plans....

EZY's story is a good reminder of this wonderful adage:

"What's the difference between sex for money and sex for free?" "Sex for free costs more."

To all you mongers, ask yourself - why am I into this HOBBY? I believe your answer should include something along the lines of it being harmless RECREATIONAL FUN for yourself. Just like golf, tennis, collecting antiques, watching a ball game with your buds or traveling to see different foreign lands are recreational fun, so too should mongering be. (Although I agree, some hobbies can be addictive, like golf). But like anything, never do it to EXCESS.

As a sidenote, mongering had better be a hobby, because if it is a life-style for you, then I recommend you re-evaluate your entire life, then go out and get one! (Excuse me if this sounded harsh).

If you're looking for a life-partner in your mongering or believe you've met a life-partner in one of your mongering exploits, remember EZY's story. There are many other similar stories. If you're looking for fresh roses in the supermarket, you don't go to the discount meat section.

Additionally, think of the CH forum as its members brag about how many chicas a guy got in a 7 day span, with never doing a repeat. What do the chicas think? They know the score. They're trying to make ends meet or, in the spirit of capitalism, make a lot of money while they can. So, if the mongers can run around to suit their needs, so too will the chicas to suit their own needs.

That's my 2 cents worth of free advice. EZY, life goes on; treasure the good moments you had. If you gave your EX-favorita $1800 and got a few weeks of companionship, you made out pretty well, and so did she. So focus on the positive.

This has been a great thread to make us all think. YOMV (Your Opinion May Vary)

Gent99

Gentlemn99, Excellent post.

Everything in life is relative. I would agree that anything in life can be addicting (including chicas). Some of my friends ask me how I can spend so much money traveling. About 5 years ago I discovered the hobby.

I don't golf. I know some that do. My brother spends $20,000 a year on a country club membership dues alone. It was then that I came up with my budget for "hobbying" (the same as he spends on his country club membership). It's best to try to stick to a budget when doing anything whether it be golfing or hobbying.

Yeah, some days I wish I had all that money back that I've spent but the majority of the time I think about the wonderful girls I've met, great guys and the friendships I've made, and all the awesome places I've visited.

I totally agree with Gentleman99. "sex for free costs more". Any of us that live in a big city that goes on dates can attest to the fact of how much a classy dinner at a great restaurant goes for. When you add up the costs for wining and dining a girl it adds up. I don't look at it as paying for sex and more of paying for their time.

Great group of intelligent guys on this board. Keep up the great posts.

Life is good.

Byron, did I ask your grumpy ass?

Ezy,

Your intentions to this woman were sincere and honorable, but the "12 step program" you outlined, while well intentioned, was doomed to fail. You wouldn't have an alcoholic serve drinks on their first day of sobriety and hope they remain sober any more than you would have a demimondaine work in the sex trade and practice abstinence. I don’t mean to sound condescending, but I speak from personal experience and while the details may differ the theme remains the same.

The fact is many of these women lack a good educational background, have one or more kids to support, others are even burdened by having to support parents, free-loading boyfriends, and even drug habits. To escape the demimonde world to earn a living that even begins to approach their current earnings is next to impossible. Pretty Woman was just that, a Hollywood fairytale script meant to sell tickets – reality is much different, it’s survival.

As for Pablo, well, he should have shown some restraint knowing the situation, but in his defense she could have declined his offer and, if not him, it would have been the next guy or the one after that. The only honor among denizens of this lifestyle is that we show the woman respect.

Keep up the good fight.

Godfather, you said;

>When you add up the costs for wining and dining a girl it adds up.

Not to mention the fact that there is always a question mark as to how the night is going to end. With the hobby, there is no question at all.

Enjoy the life.

Ezy,

Your intentions to this woman were sincere and honorable, but the "12 step program" you outlined, while well intentioned, was doomed to fail. You wouldn't have an alcoholic serve drinks on their first day of sobriety and hope they remain sober any more than you would have a demimondaine work in the sex trade and practice abstinence. I don’t mean to sound condescending, but I speak from personal experience and while the details may differ the theme remains the same.

The fact is many of these women lack a good educational background, have one or more kids to support, others are even burdened by having to support parents, free-loading boyfriends, and even drug habits. To escape the demimonde world to earn a living that even begins to approach their current earnings is next to impossible. Pretty Woman was just that, a Hollywood fairytale script meant to sell tickets – reality is much different, it’s survival.

As for Pablo, well, he should have shown some restraint knowing the situation, but in his defense she could have declined his offer and, if not him, it would have been the next guy or the one after that. The only honor among denizens of this lifestyle is that we show the woman respect.

Keep up the good fight.

Adelitaboy. Granted, in retrospect it was stupid to have tried to set favorita up in another role in the same industry. Granted, she could have said no. It certainly takes two, but to suggest that both are guilty in no way implies he is less guilty because she went along. As for Pablo, well, a man is only as good as his word...and Pablo's word is worthless.

Gentlmnn99...good post. To clarify, I went out with her for over a year, but it was only in the last 3 months that I provided her ongoing support.
And I was not looking for a life long partner....just someone to go out with and that indicated she wanted my help, which I gladly offered because I genuinely cared for her and her well being.

Ezy wrote onThursday, October 31, 2002 - 10:13 am:

[Granted, in retrospect it was stupid to have tried to set favorita up in another role in the same industry.]

Given the situation, I would probably say that this was your best choice to jump start a new life, but maybe the expectations were set a little high, too soon. Similar types of arrangements have carried on for hundreds of years in the geisha world. Men, such as yourself, would become dannas to geishas, effectively “marrying” them, sometimes even bearing their children. If the danna could afford it he would pull them out of the geisha-world entirely and she would become his concubine, while others would set up with geisha in some type of business, often times her own “tea house” where she would become a mama-san while continuing to entertain a select clientle.

Ezy,

You helped me when I was in BA last time so I just wanted to weigh in with one comment. Which of us has never been burned by a woman, in or out of the business. You spend more time with her (like a year) you tend to past her chosen (or forced) career and the warning signals that should come with it. You find out about or meet her family and friends. She also becomes more of a person/friend than a service provider. Either way, you built a trust with her and then again same happened with Pablo.

It is not wrong to be so trusting but it is necessary to maintain the balance of care when dealing with either group (mongers or chicas.) What we do is fun, but from a strict moral sense, it is corrupt or outside of the social "norm." It doesn't mean it is wrong just more direct than socially "normal" means of developing a relationship. But because of this you have to trend into this water with a lot of care and concern.

You are a just man for wanting to help a fellow human being. I think her intentions were sincere. I might even think that Pablo's intentions were sincere but both fell back into that alternative pattern of this life style. She may truely want to come back but she knows she (and he) crossed the line. I feel bad for you, but I feel bad for her. You set her up with an opportunity to improve her long term prospects (her current career definitily has as short life span) and she threw it away for a quick dollar (or peso.) But times are desperate in BA. This might have clouded her thought as well.

Sorry for the ramblings and far to many suppositions. Im more sorry you lost your favorita.

pks...you are right. Times are desperate, and the lure of fast money is hard to turn down. This fact of economic life in modern Argentina explains why I am less irked with her than with Pablo, for whom financial needs were non-existent....though I suppose it could be argued that his was a desperation of a different sort.....

Ezy,

I kind of disagree with many of the comments that I have read here. Although I think it is really a sad set of circumstances, they are also a unique set, and I think that we are all too quick to jump to a conclusion.

I have given money to lots of women after returning to the US. Why? Because I can, because I like being nice. I really expect NOTHING in return. That in some small way, I can help another person. I kind of sense that this is intention in which you were giving.

As far as the other guy, I certainly do not believe that he represents the whole of us hobbyists. I have met many many guys throughout my travels, I honestly feel that I could trust any of them in a similar situation to yours. I have to believe that this guy was truly an a**hole and not representative of all of us.

Anyways, my $.02

BT

It also depends on the amount of money we give them. If this is only a couple of hundred dollars, then there is not much burden for chicas to receive it, and it is best if mongers expect literally nothing in return (anything else is a bonus).

The situation is different when the amount of money is more substantial, and the arrangement of $600 per month every month is entering this category. Sure, this may not be a big amount for some mongers, but, for most chicas, receiving this amount of money without returning anything is a burden. This is even more complicated if you give money to a chica under the promise she would quit her "sex-for-money trade".

In theory, there are two scenarios in which this can still work out. (1) You and she make a promise about a future together. And then, the sex between you and her while you are "helping" her is a temporally arrangement. (2) If #1 does not apply, then sex during the time you are helping her becomes the reflection of "friendship" or something. But, this is really a gray area where she can easily be confused about her "arrangements" (i.e. is she still a prostitute?). Under this scenario, I actually think you should give up having sex with her at all.

I guess I am saying is, your relationship with her dictates how she views herself when she has sex with you and receives money from you.

One test might be, if the relationship is such that she would be having sex with you without the exchange of money (i.e. either you are lovers or very special friends), then she can think of herself as a non-pro even if she has sex with you and receives money from you.

Bluestraveller. It is certainly difficult to apply the experiences of one unique situation to the entire population of hombres or chicas. I, too, have met some fine hombres--Moondog, Godfather, SFhombre, Nomar, and the list goes on. I have also heard enough stories of chicas leaving the field to know the once-a-puta-always-aputa mantra does not apply universally....but there exists a sub-set of pricks and putas baratas in our field...and sometimes it is hard to tell who is and who is not one of the good guys...Pablo is a case in point. Very smooth. Very intelligent. Also very manipulative and scheming, but not a first glance.....

Byron....in this particular case, she passed the sex-without-money test some time ago. The money I offered was only after I spent time with her gratis, proving to her and to me that the relationship was between friends/lovers and puta/putanero.....

Ezy: Life lessons are important in garnering experiential worldview. Just by reading some of your psts in this thread indicates that you have come out of this wiser than before.....
bro, I empathize with your situation.

Citydude...Thanks for your kind comments. I am not so sure I am that much wiser....I am trying to decide what to do based upon updated info (see my next post).

Further advice needed: I received a tearful phone call yesterday, as some of you predicted I would.
The gist of her comments were....

1. I had lots of bills that I did not know how I was going to pay....extensive home repairs, orthodontist, tuition for her daughter to enter school...and saw an opportunity to earn extra money. FWIW, I know she has these bills. No lies here.

2. Pablo was pleasant enough, but he was grossly overweight and she was glad he a. didn't want sex much and b. had an extremely small dick. She didn't think she could have taken it had he been more aggressive sexually, as some of us are....

She is looking forward to seeing me in November when I return. Having read the thread, what is your best advice to one who does not much trust his own judgement any longer.....

My response thus far is noncommital. I told her that she could meet me at the airport upon my arrival and we could talk. She has 900pesos I left with her to use as a deposit on an apartment...so at a minimum I need to see her to get back my money. Beyond this brief meeting, I have no plans to see her during my trip....though before all this came up we had planned to spend a couple of days at an Estancia together and a couple of other one night engagements (eg, a Luis Miguel concert).....

Wow...this was good early morning reading and now she has called. Real "on the fence" situation.

1) You could plow into it and treat her like a puta and walk away when through with her;or,

2) Give it another go but with better defined "rules of engagement".

I agree with some of the other posters. Farther away from the mongering scene the less tempted she will be.

As many on this board will attest, I am a hard core monger but I always treat them with kindness and respect. I also like to have a lot of fun with them outside of the bedroom. Dancing, dining, movies, shopping. Makes the intimacy even better when they know you are a human being.

Ezy, ......it really depends on how much you still feel about her. If she is still "special" in your heart, give her another go but with better and much stricter guidelines. Also let her know it is last and final chance. There will not be another no matter how much she might need money.
On the other hand, if she is not that "special" in your heart and was just more of an experiment in human nature, then I would not knock my head against a brick wall twice.

Odds are very low that it wont hurt again. Odds are very high that she won't make it out of the business. Odds are very even that we will see a repeat of this thread in the future.

Sandman

HEY

Overweight? Small dick?

I never touched that woman!

Ohh shit, did I say that out loud?

Ezy, I really think you have to forget about the details of what happened and analyze your own feelings toward this girl. Do you want to help her or not? If you do, then I think you have to keep in mind that you are helping someone, not saving them. Helping implies that mistakes, wrong turns and reversals are part and parcel of the process, it's never a clean, straight line from point "a" to "b", life isn't that simple. Unfortunately, it also implies that failure is one of the possible outcomes.

Only with time will you know if the goal you wish and she professes to want is achievable for her.

But I think the key is as Sandy says, you must determine on just how "special" this girl is to you, then make a decision. If yes, brace yourself from a rollercoaster ride; if no, walk.

First, this is just mho, and I am a recovering romantic. I don't see how a man can spend countless intimate hours with the same woman, and not develop feelings akin to love for her. If you didn't feel that way, you would simply follow Moondog's three times rule, and she would be a fond memory.

In defense of favorita, it is very difficult for anyone to change their lives. It takes a very high degree of self discipline, and sometimes the desire for change isn't enough. Ask any recovering alcoholic, or like me, someone who has struggled and overcome a weight problem, or an ex-smoker. Sometimes, you don't get it right on your first, or first several tries, but that doesn't mean that you don't have a true desire to change. I believe that Ezy's attempt to help this girl was noble, and just a human thing to do. I share his belief about karma, or whatever you want to call it. I also know that regardless how you try to rationalize things like money spent, and once a puta..., it just damn well hurts when you try to help someone you consider a true friend, or love, and they let you down.

In defense of the asshole who broke trust. There is no defense, unless you have no sense of honor. An old quote from grandpa EZEamante "A man is only as good as his word".

Now to the real question what to do? It has to be difficult to look at this girl and not feel hurt and betrayed. Is she worth a second chance? Do you believe that she is essentially a good heart, or that she is cold through and through. Ezy, I believe you are the only one who can answer this. If it were my favorita, I probably wouldn't be able to keep from seeing her again, but I would be wary, and I tend to be led by my feelings more than my intellect.

EZE

And...

I would probably, if it were me, rebuild the relationship from the ground up. Starting with brief encounters, not long weekends. I believe that trust has to be earned, and once that trust is damaged, it takes twice as much effort to regain.

EZE

EZ,

This is indeed a fascinating discussion, because I think it hits a chord with many of us hobbyists.

First, if I were you, you have to think of what you really want from this relationship. It does not seem that you are looking for a wife or even a steady girlfriend. Or even a monogomous relationship. It seems more like a benefactor situation, but your feelings of hurt are more like a monogomous relationship.

But isn't that the rub? You are a MONGER, too. I am sure during the same period, you have not been faithful to her either. She probably does not know with whom and how often, but she certainly knows that you are out galavanting.

If you really want an emotional relationship that works, where she only sees you, then you have to promise her to give up mongering. Then you are both on equal footing.

If not, then you shouldn't be as hurt as you are about this transgression, and you should be doing what you can to help her back on her feet.

Anyways, I wouldn't be saying all of this, but for slightly different reasons, a lot of these thoughts have been spinning around in my own head.

Bluestraveller

Talk to her, stay friends with her, but do not pay her for sex or hard luck stories. As others have said, set down new rules as to how the realtionship is going to be.

The owner of Platynum and Escorts-Argentina, Ricardo, has been in this business over 30 years. He has seen it time and time again, "once a working girl, always a working girl." Many try to leave, but they always come back. I know there are some that do make it out
of the business, but you have to have something that pays a lot more and is as much fun as these girls seem to have.

Your favorita is unique, and she may be a special case. If you want to help her financially, that is your choice. Just do not lose your heart over her.

Moondog

Damn. Some great comments and posts. I agree with all these fine gents Ezy. Even the hardest core of hobbyists have hearts and it's easy to fall for these girls. I particularly agree with Moondog's 3 times rule. My last trip to BA there is this chica that really likes me. I talk to her on the phone all the time, IM's, etc. I'm her friend but I don't look at it as anymore than that. Would I like to sleep with her again? Sure. Last trip she called my room 3 times asking to come over and telling me she will refuse any money. I have already seen her 2 times and most likely will not see her again.

Sometimes it's hard to stay away from a favorita or a special girl but in the end it's usually better for both parties.

My advice would be to remain as friends. It might be really difficult but in the end it may be better for both of you. I think if you continue a sexual relationship then you should set guidelines or rules (i.e. maybe never to talk about or mention other clients for her and never to mention other chicas with her).

Again, I'm a big believer in the 3 X rule. I plan on repeating a few girls this trip in November but that will only be 2 X. I still have yet to see a girl 3 X in Buenos Aires. Pray for me.