Ben, no problems. You are quite a commentator. Could you perhaps do an impression of Chick Hearn?

LOL! Now that's funny ... especially coming from Dogster, who is right in the middle of every flame war on the board, without fail. Show me a flame war or heated debate around here, and I guarantee Dogster is there. Why is that? Do you just like to argue, or are you simply a troll? Plus, why do you mention Hombre so much in your posts lately? Do you need help or something?

For the record, I've been contributing to this board wayyyyyy longer than you, bitch-boy, and I've seen better trolls than you come and go ...

You are obviously misunderstanding "target practice." See, when you're the little yellow duckie, and I'm the one holding the gun, that makes you the target. You keep popping up, and I keep blasting you back down. I'd like to say you are keeping me sharp, but you're so easy I think you are actually dulling my senses. Where's Kendricks when I need him?

-Superman-

Ben:

Three weeks ago they're building a shrine to Tedford at Sproul Hall...This past Saturday, they're hanging him in effigy over at People's Park...

Those Old Blues are motherfetching pissed after back-to-back losses at home...

YoungBrig

Superdud, once again you are off-target and off-topic. I simply posted about Magic Johnson, and you posted more of your negative predictable limited bullshit, looking for a fight as usual. Regarding my most recent post (this evening), you seem to have missed the point, and taken it too literally, as usual.

If you don't like my posts, don't read them. This is not a difficult concept (for normal adults).

I admit that I'm not surprised that you do bizarre things to rubber ducks.

And now back to the NBA thread...

And Dogster is moving right to left across your screen as he shoots a frozen rope towards Clark Kent and Superman is called on a ticky tack foul by Dogster for to much squeezin the grape where Super takes Dogster to the third floor and leaves him hanging in the mezzinine.

A slam dunk for ben

Hey B Y Youngster,

Cal made a nice run, but unfortunately or fortunately, Cal is a bunch of too smart underachievers who usually wind up inventing things that people like Bill Gates buy for $50,000 and make billions exploiting.

There has never been a correlation between intelligents and wealth or sucess in sports.

Benishappythatitisnotnecessarytobesmarttomakemoney

it's ... too ... easy ... someone ... please ... challenge ... me ...........

-Superman-

Superman... He could be defender of the year.

He could be Kurt Rambis and I could be Kevin McHale ... Game 4, 1984 NBA finals. Any real NBA fans know exactly what I'm talking about.

-Superman-

Closeline.

Saying Magic is way above Jordan is quite possibly the funniest thing I have ever heard. 50% of basketball is defense and Jordan was one of the greatest defenders in the history of basketball...oh yeah he was a consistent scoring champion and the ultimate bottom line...more rings with less talent around him...Enough said. Only a Laker fan would say Magic was a better player than Jordan. Magic was a great leader but and escort service on defense.

Blazers
I hate the Lakers and disagree with your statement. Magic did have better talent surrounding him but he had to beat Larry Bird and Dr J led teams while Jordan beat basically no one I can remember being any good.
Jordan was a fantastic scorer, Magic a fantastic point guard.
Who would I pick to start a team? Magic as even I would get a layup by just running hard.
Who is the better player, depends what to look for. I keep hearing Oscar Robertson was the best player of all times.

Again, you failed to consider defense...half of the game and rings...Jordan has more

Jordan is considered by many to be the best player of all time. Whether he is or not (I don't think so), the bottom line is Magic is never even included in the debate ...

Magic was not even the best player amongst his peers ... I'd take Larry Bird any day.

I think Jordan even had more magic than Magic. I'm sure MJ leads by about a billion in game winning and "clutch" shots, in addition to the defense and scoring titles.

-Superman-

It is difficult to pick who is the best in basketball, just like other sports, because of rule changes and equipment inovations. It doesn't provide a level playing field.

I guess the most dramatic difference I ever saw in basketball was when Wilt Chamberlain showed up in 1960 or somewhere around that time. I remember he was Rookie of the Year and MVP the same year in the NBA.


No one could really stop him, maybe Bill Russel a little, but if Wilt had played for the Celtics he might still be playing as a dead man.

Blazers makes an excellent point that Earvin (can't bring myself around to calling him Magic) Johnson was a poor defender. Much overlooked was that Johnson was a point guard on offense but was a small forward on defense! Byron Scott was forced to defend the other team's point guard (and usually badly overmatched), the very quick & lighter James Worthy would defend the shooting guard and Johnson would defend the small forward.
That is why Johnson could get all those triple doubles; he was always close to the basket on defense playing small forward.
If you could interview Byron Scott and James Worthy, if they could be bluntly honest, I'd bet they would say it pissed them off that they had to guard a quicker, smaller man
Example: Scott/a number 2...guards a number 1
Example: Worthy/a number 3...guards a number 2
because slow-poke Johnson, all 220lbs of him, couldn't guard a fellow point guard.
The Lakers HID Earvin Johnson on defense (at the small forward position) and most NBA fans were not astute enough to notice ... and not appreciative of the sacrifice that Byron Scott and James Worthy made to make Johnson look more "super" than he really was.

My post about Magic Johnson from two nights ago was intended to describe and highlight the significance of Magic's accomplishments AFTER his retirement from the NBA, and after being diagnosed with HIV. Magic's heroic successes since '91 transcend and include the greatness he exhibited while playing, in ways that are extremely rare in the overblown world of professional jocks. Jackie Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Bill Russell, Frank Robinson, and Magic Johnson seem very exceptional and unusual in that they ultimately were bigger than their sports.

If y'all want to debate the relative skill levels of various players, I'll be your Huckleberry. It's kind've fun. But the big picture, beyond *just* professional sports, is more interesting, IMHO.

If Magic and the Lakers crushed your favorite teams by winning championships repeatedly, I can understand your frustration. But too many people villify individuals just because they played for the "other" team. It is better to appreciate the world however it unfolds, even when your pet team chokes.

Dogster (in remission from being an Angels and Vikings fan)

P.S. Just thought I'd remind y'all that the Laker dynasty is STILL the three-time defending NBA champion.

It's been over 10 years since Earvin Johnson announced he had HIV. Being a very well paid pro athlete his peak physical fitness body plus the ability to access the finest (and expensive) medicines supervised my outstanding medical personnel has enabled Johnson to survive quite a long time since HIV originally invaded his body.
I believe his HIV status is so low that medical tests barely show any trace of HIV in his body, even as of today, 11 years later.
I guess my question is ... is Earvin Johnson an example of the advancement of HIV treatment that can now change the virus' infection from no longer being a certain death sentence, and rendered a chronic life-long inconvenience that is now manageable?
I think modern medicine doesn't want to admit this because most people cannot either afford these state-of-the-art pills and were never world-class athletes prior to infection ... but ... Earvin Johnson may be proof that HIV is a treatable disease.
The flip side is that medical journals tell us that first-class treatment can enable the patient to live a quality life while HIV infected, but when full-blown AIDS does arrive, the end comes very quickly.
The traditional belief is that treatment cannot extend life, just improve the quality of life during the time before full-blown AIDS.
Anybody care to chime in ... has Earvin Johnson beaten the AIDS death sentence and rendered it just a manageable inconvenience ...
or
is HIV still a death sentence and Johnson living on borrowed time?

Rodney,

As I mentioned previously, I have been going to The San Diego County Health Department every six months to be HIV tested. So far so good.

They have many articles and information about HIV and AIDS at these offices.

Most of what I read is that a very large percentage of HIV positive people( WHO ARE TREATED EARLY) can survive for a very long time with fairly normal health.

World B. Free

I would like to have him considered as the NBA's all time greatest ballhog.

Never saw a shot he didn't like.

Majic Johnson is a symbol for his combating HIV. But, he is not alive with HIV today because he is more courageous than Arthur Ashe. He is alive because of the advancement of medicine. In my mind, the credit should go to the sophistication of modern medicine (and long before the HIV treatment was developed, basic scientits, here molecular biologists, have ample knowledge of how retrovirus replicates itself). In fact, if I read Dogsta's post, Magic properly credits that it's drugs that make him alive.

I don't know details of Johnson's investment into inner city. Again, he could be a symbol on this issue, but may not be the most important figure. I just hope he sends a proper message to these kids; i.e. They should NOT count on making millions from their athletic gifts. They should stay in school.

Great post Bylon!

Byron, I think you make excellent points as always. Of course, you are correct about the advancement of medical science. I'm sure that you are 100% correct about the value of those quirky molecular-biologist type people, even those who work on other topics. (My question to you: what is a "basic scientit?" I have a new nickname for you...). A MoBio course I took 20+ years ago featured an intense crazy German guy named Peter Deusberg who was interested in retroviruses and cancer. What a nut! How much credit does he get for saving Magic?

Regarding Magic:
1) Going public in '91 was heroic, ESPECIALLY because the prognosis wasn't good at the time, the disease was highly stigmatizing, and because most afflicted people chose to remain as anonymous and hidden as possible. The news probably would've become public sooner or later, but becoming a fundraser and activist was not typical. One message he sent was, "there's life and after being diagnosed with a life-threatening disease; there's always a silver lining"

2) The details of Magic's charitable and business work have been documented many places, especially the L.A. Times. The key points are (a) he contributes to inner city communities (which is somewhat rare); (b) he invested in impoverished areas that most investors avoided (which is rare); (c) his business inner-city ventures have been successful financially (which is very rare); (d) he has a much better than average track record with inner city employees who historically were considered unemployable and untrainable(which is exceedingly rare).

Some of the messages he's sent include, "there's life after, and outside of, sports," "there's value in being more than just a jock," and "there's value in giving back to your community."

Hallelujah... Amen. Woof Woof Woof woof.

About Aids, I saw on CNN the other day that 1 to less than 2% of HIV positive never turn into Aids. They showed these people had different genes. Maybe Magic Johnson is one of them.

Ben
But World B Free played for my Clippers way way back in San Diego. Darn I even saw him play.

About Basketball, call me stupid but I always thought Magic was a good defender, blocking shots and getting rebounds, granted nowhere a shot blocker near Michael Jordan ability and timing. I always thought Byron Scott, Clipper draft pick, was an average player who had a good career because of teammate Magic. Norm Nixon is another example of that, traded for Scott to Clippers, he amounted to nothing as soon as wearing Clip Uni.

My favorite player of all time is Julius Erving and no he was not the greatest but I'll start my team with him because he was the Doctor and was majestic and I stopped watching the NBA the day he retired, losing to the Bucks in playoffs. I was told people in Mass were watching college pre game warmups of his games as dunking was illegal at that time in College game and he would dunk only during pre game warmup.

Athos,

I had season tickets to the San Diego Clippers.

They were very entertaining, but I couldn't stomach their owner, Donald Sterling.

It would seem to me that you were to young to go to the SD Clipper games?

Ben
One of my regrets in life is to have gone to see Dr J play only once at the Sports Arena. Hey the Clippers used to split with Lakers and even beat Celtics once. At that time I had no money and was going to college. Too young? well I was still a virgin. Today I still have no money. But I remember one year the cheap seats were $5. I used to go seat in expensive seats as arena was usually empty.

It kind've amazes me that Sterling is still an owner and that the Clippers have remained in LA all this time. Have you ever met an LA Clipper fan? I don't think they actually exist. I suspect that the folks at Clipper games these days are basically cheapskates who didn't buy Laker tix.

Before the Clippers moved into the new, state-of-the art Staples Center they played a small part of their season in Anaheim at the Pond, and had sellouts with enthusiastic crowds that conferred a real hometown advantage to the Clips.
Nothing can get Donald Sterling to move to Anaheim, even though he was offered a sweetheart arena deal.
Seems Sterling covets being a big-shot in the LA society circle (although to-date, he's been a big joke with his perennial underachieving Clippers).
I agree, the people who attend Clipper games just want to see NBA basketball close range (which simply is not possible for Lakers games since everything short of the nosebleed section is sold out on a season ticket basis) at an affordable price.
Nobody loves the Clippers. The ultimate proof is plainly evident on this board. At various times we've had guys named Celtics, Blazers, Raiders, Chargers ... what's that team's name that just won its 3rd NBA world championship ???,
BUT NOBODY WANTS THE MONIKER ... CLIPPERS !

Athos,

I had good seats to the SD Clippers games for two seasons. Once in a while I would go down to the bar for a drink and have to chase young college punks out of my seats when I got back to my seats.

I knew I had seen you before Caliente

Ben
The Sports Arena was a real dump. But I even saw Michael Jordan play there. Can you name game???

Well, I also saw Dr. J. vs the Clippers, back when Darrell Dawkins was at center for the 76ers.

The Clippers had a reasonably good team, bad break when Bill Walton went down so quick.

Athos,

Was it when he was at North Carolina?

Sam Perkins, Michael, James Worthy, what a team.

just a quick guess!!

Well not really. Summer 1984, Olympics team USA warmup game vs NBA players. Team included Ewing, Jordan, Chris Mullins. Barkley and Stockton did not make team.

Speaking of history.

I had eight tickets to the Final Four played at The San Diego Sports Arena in 1975.

Saw John Wooden's last game when he won his final NCAA Championship against Kentucky.

Although Kentucky was probably the better team, Kentucky never had a chance after Wooden announced retirement prior to the game.

Ha ha. Round 1 to the Kings. Ummm no, not the game ... it's only preseason. The fight. Rick Fox starts a fight with Doug Christie and gets punched in the jaw for it. Then, like a punk ass bitch, Fox runs through the tunnel around the back and jumps Christie. Christie responds with three left hooks to Fox's face. I guess pretty boys not named De La Hoya should not pick fights.

I love it. This season should be fun.

-Superman-

IF DOUG CHRISTIE WOULD HAVE HIT THE RIM AND NOT AIR BALLS ALONG WITH THOSES OTHER LOSERS ON THAT TEAM MAYBE THOSE GIRLS WOULD HAVE A RING, (THEY COULDN'T EVEN MAKE A FREE THROW THEY WENT LIKE 6 FOR 16 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT WHAT A BUNCH OF CLOWNS). NO BODY WANTED TO SHOT THE DAMNN BALL EXCEPT MIKE BIBBY THE REST OF THOSE PUNKS KEPT PASSING THE BALL IN THE FINALS BECAUSE THEY WASN'T HITTING SHIT.

DOUG CHRISTIE WEAK BITCH PUNK ASS DON'T WANT NOW OF RICK FOX THAT'S WHY RICK WAITED FOR THAT PUNK UNDER THE SEATS. THIS WAY IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ONE ON ONE WITHOUT THE REF'S BRAKING IT UP.

BUT LIKE MOST BITCH ASS FUCKERS THEY NEVER EVER WANT TO TAKE YOU ON ONE ON ONE THEY WAIT UNTIL THEY FINISH A HALF OF KEG OF (BEER) AND ROUND UP IN THIS CASE THE WHOLE TEAM TO HELP OUT HIS WEAK ASS OUT.


MAYBE DOUG CHRISTIE WOULD HAVE A RING RIGHT NOW, if he wasn't so busy blowing kissing to his MAN LOOKING wife that runs the house or MAYBE HE SHOULD JUST GET OVER THE FACT THAT THE LAKERS SENT HIS WEAK ASS GAME AWAY TO THOSE LOSER "QUEEN" NOT KINGS!!!!!!


Kid Cisco

GO LAKERS LET'S 4 BEAT OH YEAHHHHHHH

Hmmm,

Regular season there will be a guy on the Lakers team who has a tattoo on his shoulder.

Oh, just remembered it is a Superman tattoo.

I wonder if he changes the outcome of any of the games???

Why can you(Superman), dislike a team who has a player that has a tattoo honoring you?

Kid Cisco - what are you talking about? Christie rounded up his buddies to fight Fox? He was Pearl Harbored as soon as he entered the tunnel. He must have told Shaq he was doing this as he had his back pretty quick. Fox will easily get the biggest suspension on this one. He threw the elbow and got the foul, then threw the first punch (weak slap).

Have never seen Christie's wife but Fox definately has him beat in this category. Wishing Vanessa Willams worked in TJ.

Fox started the whole deal and t Bone is right about PHed

Yo tambien on Vanessa Williams

Vanessa Williams does nothing for me.

Neither in the looks department nor in the talent department.

I believe she's made the most of her infamy due to her lesbian spread in Penthouse(?) years ago.
Only in America........(lol)

then again what the hell do I know

aserenawilliamskindaguy

I have to rule against Fox on this one. He ambushed Christie. That won't win him any respect from fans or opposing players (including some of his own).

The Lakers and Kings are scheduled to play on Christmas Day. I wonder what kind of presents they'll bring each other.

A Forget the regular season and bring on the playoffs right now kind of guy,

Out-of-Towner

"The Lakers didn't do much in the off-season while the rest of the West improved."

Lots of sports "experts" love to say shit like this in the popular press, and predict that the Lakers will crumble this year. People who say this, and believe it, miss the larger picture (gestalt): the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. The Lakers SUCCEEDED in maintaining their nucleus. As these dudes continue to play together, the team will get stronger, especially when the chips are down. Everybody else needs to recalibrate to accommodate their new meat.

If the Lakers (and Shaq and Kobe in particular) are healthy come playoff time, they'll win another championship.

The main challenges are likely to come from obvious places (Sacramento: lots of talent, Princeton offense, hunger; New Jersey: talent, Princeton Offense; Mavericks: highly talented trio; San Antonio: Talent, hunger)

T-Bone: I agree with you, Fox gave the weakest slap I've ever seen, I have been a Laker's fan since the Worthy/Magic era, but I have to accept it, Fox looked like a woose, on the other hand, what a great upper cut from Christie, he also was throwing great punches in the tunnel.

Dogster: Like always, you are 100% right my friend.

The masterater

If the Lakers win, which I doubt, Phil Jackson should go down as one of the great NBA coaches

Shaq delayed toe surgery until late into the off-season, with the blessing of Phil Jackson, who didn't want the big guy having to play the entire 82 game season. Phil cuts deals with his superstar(s), which is why he's a great coach.
Shaq's absence will give Medvedenko, Samaki Walker and Mark Madsen (who is screwing up a wonderful opportunity) lots of playing time to improve their game. The Lakers will need those guys in post season.
Shaq's absence will also put to rest the notion that Kobe is a superstar. Jackson has stated that without Shaq "we are just a .500 team". Without Kobe, any 4 stiffs + Shaq is still a very good (.600 winning percentage) team. Agree?
Looks like Lakers have found their Tyronn Liu replacement they lacked last year, when speedy guards like San Antonio's Parker, Portland's Stoudamire and Sacramento's Bibby just flew past Laker defenders. This guy Pargo from Univ of Arkansas can zip around but needs a lot of work, which he'll get during the regular season.
Robert Horry will get limited minutes during the regular season and then be asked to shut down the Tim Duncan's and Chris Webber's without double team help come playoff time.
Look for the Zen Master Phil Jackson to have all spark plugs firing come playoff time (they won't have best regular season record by any means) ... but ... it will still be a tough struggle to repeat when facing slightly superior talent.

Dogster/Rodney, I'm afraid I agree with your analyses. I'm a high octane Laker hater and I'm afraid I'll have to give up following the NBA until either Shaq or Phillip leaves the Lakers. It's just getting fucking unbearable already for fans like me who are emotionally invested in Laker failure.

Without Shaq, the Lakers are exactly as good as they've shown the last 2 nights (i.e. they SUCK). They can go into the postseason with a healthy Shaq and with Kobe enlisted and fighting the war on the streets of Baghdad, and the Lakers will repeat. With Kobe playing and Shaq on the sideline, they won't get out of the first round and wouldn't make the playoffs in the tough West if Shaq sat out most of the season.

Those other pretenders including Fox the punk should sell their rings and donate the proceeds to charity. I will cut Horry a break for his clutch shooting in the playoffs last year...he can keep last year's ring. Won't happen again though.

This should be your year Erip ... hang in there. I see Sacramento in a similar role as Detroit was against the Celtics, and later, the Bulls against the Pistons. Both those teams took their lumps despite superior talent and both eventually got over the hump.

Sacramento basically won the Conference Finals last year (even many Lakers fans admit they got a gift in that series) ... so look for the Lakers to fall this year.

As long as they have the two all-world superstars they will be a threat, but Sacramento is a much deeper team. Not only that, but both Portland and San Antonio should be factors as well ... I'd hardly say the Lakers suck for losing to them early, with or without Shaq.

Either way, if I were a betting man I'd wager the Lakers won't win the title this year.

-Superman-

Year one of Phil/Shaq dynasty - Portland, MY TEAM, who Lakers 3rd best player couldn't come off the bench for, chokes away 20 point lead in the last quarter of a playoff series deciding game (was it the west championship?). Last year Sacto comes with the far superior talent, outplays L.A., then still finds a way to lose with some official help. Lakers draw a bye for entire NBA Championship series! THREEPEAT.

Superman, I am dispirited. Phil's mysticism challenges my agnostic outlook; Shaq can't be neutralized...even if he has to go to the line when it REALLY counts.

So the Lakers keep prevailing over teams with superior talent and nobody has an answer for O'Neal and Phil's sorcery (tell me Horry would have made THOSE shots...or even had the ball in his hands if he wasn't wearing a Laker uniform).

This is my penance for snickering at the those Eldon Campbell/Karl Malone playoff matchups and thinking the Campbell/Divac/crap coach era would endure. I should have known that Jerry and Doc Buss would figure it out. I am not so optimistic as you, though I do expect the Lakers to finish 3rd in the division for the regular season. Still, I'll keep the blindfold on and the earplugs in until this team actually loses a playoff series.

I don't believe in any kind of mysticism. This Lakers "dynasty" has three straight championships, but like you pointed out, they were only truly dominant in the 2nd year. They backed into the finals year one and three ... they are certainly not on par with the Bulls dynasty of the 90's. I'll be shocked if they win it this year.

-Superman-

SELF-CONFIDENCE. You can buy as much self-confidence as you can buy love with money. The question SAC-TOWN needs to answer this season is whether or not they have the self-confidence to finish when it counts. No cow-bells, yelling, nor "hopefully we can beat L.A." statements made by C-Web will do unless is follow up with clutch time performances by others other than Bibby.

I'm a big-time Laker fan, but I promise not to be complainer should the KINGS find within enough courage to step-up to big brother to stablish a new regime.

For now the Lakers and L.A. is the real Capital of California and anything utter by the L.A. hater is hopeless as the Lakers are ESPN's THE KEEPERS OF THE RINGS.

-Jarocho