What a cynical attempt to try to grab Clinton voters. Kind of reminds me of George Bush picking Quayle to try to close the gender gap (as in Quayle is handsome so will appeal to women voters; never mind that he is totally unqualified for the Presidency). OTOH, Bush beat Dukakis even though Dukakis picked the eminently qualified Lloyd Bentsen.

I now fear even more the consequences of a McCain win, should that happen. Can you imagine Palin assuming the Presidency after McCain's melonomas catch up with him?

(Message edited by LAguy on August 29, 2008)

(Message edited by LAguy on August 29, 2008)

The arrogance of Obama.....doesn't even mention Martin Luther King Jr. by name and no real reverence to the civil rights movement. He know he has 90%+ of the Black vote and. He sure is very respectful for the civil rights leaders who lead the way for him to be where he is today.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080829/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_obama_s_dream

I guess some people are just too dumb to know that when Obama referred to "a young preacher from Georgia," he was referring to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

But it does say something that Beachman could come up with no better response to the point about McCain's cynical choice of Palin.

(Message edited by LAguy on August 29, 2008)

The 45th anniversary of the "I got a dream speech" and he couldn't even mention him by name. What was the "Chosen One" afraid of being upstaged by history.

I am flat out stunned by the stupidity of McCain's choice!!! This is who the American people want as the person "a heartbeat away" from the presidency? A person who's been governor of a small, idiosyncratic state (no offense to Alaskans here) for all of 20 months, with previous service as mayor of a tiny city? A person with ZERO knowledge of foreign policy? Or hardly any other areas of policy? Whose only relevant credentials seem to be she likes guns, hates abortions, and doesn't have a penis?

It's been fun watching the Republican strategists dealing with this move today. They are clearly perplexed. It is, however, a perfect demonstration of one of McCain's great flaws that many of his supporters acknowledge: his tendency to reject input and go with his instinct. He's decided he can pick off disgruntled Hilary fans. He might have been able to had he gone with a moderate female Republican. But does he really think a gun-totting, rabidly anti-choice woman they've never heard of who is the darling of the far, far right will do the trick? McCain must be on drugs or slipping into dementia.

Beachman, what do you think of Palin? Is that the choice you had in mind?

I for one am GLAD he did not mention MLK by name. In so doing it would appear as nothing short of riding coattails and glory standing. Better to be discrete and let the people make up their own minds on the matter of now and 45 yrs ago and the respective correlation.

Bwana dik-

I have said before I am not a McCain fan and this choice is not a good sign. She has about the same experience as Obama. She has at least been an executive.

Obama has not been an active Senator...announcing to run for President 140 days after being elected. His only purpose to become a Senator was as a stepping stone to run for President. He is an insider politician....first in the South Side of Chicago, then in The Illinois State House and now in the Senate.

Good or bad....Palin will bring a real change of a person who ran for office in Alaska for real change in representing the people and who's life until 2 years ago she was an average American.
We don't know enough about her yet but she is the real "outside the belt loop" politician who brings a fresh face to national politics.

Unlike Obama, Biden and McCain who are professional politicians and who have egos and have lost touch with average Americans.
Who knows someone outside of Washington may have a positive influence in our future. She may be the person who will have the inside access to Washington and be the conscience of the people of this great country.

It is a real gamble and I do agree McCain is trying to pick off disenchanted Hillary supporters.

I lived in Anchorage for a year in the 1990's. There was a different mentality in society which if some of that mentality can be reintroduce down here in the lower 48 we probaly will be a better country for it.

I don't think it is going to work as far as picking off Hillary Clinton supporters. From what I gather, the young women Hillary supporters have already moved to Obama. What is in play are the older Hillary supporters, many of whom doubted Obama's experience. Given McCain's constant references to his own advanced age, and his definition of one of the VPs main duties as checking on the health of the President every day, his VP choice entirely undercuts the Obama-is-inexperienced argument, and will not draw many of the still uncommitted Hillary voters.

And let us not forget that Hillary and Palin's views are almost uniformly diametrically opposed.

OTOH, she is more attractive than Michelle Obama, and although not my first choice by any means, if given the chance I wouldn't mind drilling Governor Palin, at least for the principle of the thing.

Being a governor is not necessarily the same as being an executive. States vary widely in terms of the powers given the governor. Alaska is one of those states (like Texas, ironically) where governors are given modest executive powers. This is the case in many of the western conservative states. Those legislatures distrust strong executives, and have stripped them of most of their power.

My sister works for the state of Alaska in Juneau. Her take on Palin is "she hasn't done anything as governor." I pushed her and she said "well, she's been dealing with the corruption in the state government, which is a good thing, but that's pretty much it." She also mentioned that she's facing charges of corruption herself.

I get a kick out of these "so-and-so is a professional politician but my candidate isn't" arguments. What does being a professional politician have to do with capacity to serve as president? Frankly, I want someone who's good at what they do (being a politician) in that role. Part of being a politician is being a leader. Palin fails there. Part of being a politician is knowing the system well enough to use it to achieve policy goals. Palin fails there. Her ignorance of politics and federal policy is a liability.

I don't fault any of the candidates for their experience in Washington. The president has to lead from there, and needs to know the system. Palin fails there (I assume you all heard her asking "so what does the vice president do?").

I like doctors who have been in practice awhile but are young enough to be familiar with the latest methods in their fields. I like pilots with plenty of experience but not as old as CFK. And I like politicians who are experienced hands but not so old they'll kick mid-stream and turn the reins over to an inexperienced person selected for electoral rather than substantive reasons.

It's just a bit hard to imagine anyone believing that Palin would make a better president than Biden.

She took on Oil and her own party (Republican) over ethics.....that is a good start to the change America wants.

She is a governor with executive experience.....I would say it is much more experience than Obama has as a "community organizer."



Obama saying his experience as a "community oraganizer qualifies him with executive experience to be President of the United States is like the Janitor who claims his experience entitles him to call himself a "Maintenance
Engineer."

Corruption.....Obama buying a million dollar+ home and his felon buddy Resko buying the lot next door and selling part of it to Obama below appraised value because Obama couldn't afford it!

Bwana,

"I like pilots with plenty of experience but not as old as CFK."
To soon we grow old, to old we grow smart -author unkown. It's the alternative of getting old that scares me!

Your assesment of the substantive reasons is dead on; every woman should be feel insulted that he would select a relatively inexperienced woman and expect them to buy into it. What a "reach out" maneuver
CFK

(Message edited by copperfieldkid on August 29, 2008)

Beachman: How about giving us your take on McKain's involvement with convicted felon Charles Keating?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Keating

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five

(Message edited by LAguy on August 29, 2008)

(Message edited by LAguy on August 29, 2008)

Only Barak shall be blessed by Allah (Most Gracious, Most Merciful). McCain's selection of this infidel whore shall rain down ruin on his campaign.

"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more strength than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in the man's absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them: but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means of annoyance: For Allah is Most High, great above you all," Qur’an (4:34).

Here's Palin's statement on the VP position, just last month:

After stating that she didn't know what the Vice President does, Palin said: "As for that VP talk all the time, I'll tell you, I still can't answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day? I'm used to being very productive and working real hard in an administration. We want to make sure that that VP slot would be a fruitful type of position, especially for Alaskans and for the things that we're trying to accomplish up here for the rest of the U.S., before I can even start addressing that question."

So...she doesn't even seem to understand that the VP's job is not to represent a state (Alaska). The VP is not a senator.

This cynical move (selecting a young attractive women to counter the youth of Obama and appeal to the fans of Clinton) reminds me very much of the Republican Party's decision to run Alan Keyes, a black conservative, against Obama. That effort failed in a huge way. This one will blow up in the Republicans' faces.

Here is her professional resume:

Miss Wasilla, Alaska (1984) (won Miss Congeniality competition)
BA, Univ. of Idaho in journalism
Local sports reporter, Wasilla
City council and mayor, Wasilla
Governor, Alaska (20 months)

Impressive!

McCain is trumpeting her effort successfully killing the "bridge to nowhere" in Gravina Island as evidence of her leadership. Actually, Congressional Democrats stripped the earmark from the appropriations bill. Palin merely decided not to use state funds to make up the amount cut by the Dems.

BTW, she advocates teaching creationism in schools. Can you say "Right WIng Religious Kook?"

More good news: Palin has received the strongest endorsement possible from our dear friends, the Christian Coalition.

Thank you, Jeeezussssss!

I understand that some will be taken in by the "audacity of ego" but as a European I'll gladly take Palin (VPILF?) a heartbeat away from the Presidency than a similarly inexperienced Barack Hussein Obama actually in the Presidency. Kind of ironic that the candidate for "change" announced a Washington veteran (yawn) as his choice for Veep whilst the so called staid conservative McCain did something truly bold. I know which of the two I believe in.

Again...What has Obama done of any substance.


What is his resume:

Community Organizer

Most liberal voting Senator in the Senate.....that is when he doesn't vote Present. Of course he has spent most of his time running for President instead of really working in the Senate.

I am quite sure none of you Obama guys have ever watched a stadium sized Evangelical Christian gathering but if you had you would notice a very strange and eerie commonality in the glassy eyed blank gaze of the crowd between the Obama stadium crowd and an Evangelical Christian stadium crowd. In all seriousness, it always tripped me out when I saw that glassy eyed look in large crowds of evangelical Christians. Their positions may be 180% opposite but the Obama stadium crowd has them same eyes. It's creepy. Seriously. Compare some footage on your own and look at the glassy trance like eyes. Obama stadium crowd glassy eyes vs Evangelical Christain Stadium crowd glassy eyes. Tell me them ain't the same eyes.

(For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most merciful.)

I am not as worried about Mccain's health nor his age. What bothers me about McCain is his temper and his intelligence. The criticism on Obama was his experience so Obama picked Biden who is a man with a lot of experience. Following this logic, this woman needs to be cool headed and really really smart.

Let's give her a chance to see how a small time politician from Alaska responds to the glare and pressure of this race. Let's not forget that she is already part of an ethics investigation.

My suspicion is that Alaska is one of the key flash points for the oil industry, and they encouraged McCain to choose her over all of the other more logical choices.

Whether we like it or not, the polls are remarkably tight, and it could well prove that Palin is the deciding factor. If she is as eloquent, intelligent and charismatic as Obama, it could turn the entire election. Of course, the converse is true also.

I suspect that James Dobson and Pat Robertson told McCain that he needs to pick this self righteous bitch or else. The Dobson endorsement should happen any day and then he pious will swarm McCains campaign headquarters.

The only thing that Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton have in common is a (Y) chromosone, although the former is more fuckable.

McVain is a truly dangerous man whose thirst for the presidency makes him say or do anything. Psycho John acts more like a heroin addict than a president.

This is a fucked up choice.. For the most part I could give a shit about VPs, but this judgment might drive me away from McCain. While I do like most McCain policy stands better than Obama.. the courts are my greatest concern. Three new Supremes in the first term. With a re-election and some wild card bad health.. I could see seven get replaced. Not sure I want McCain doing the picking especially as I have zero trust in the Senate. Plus the other courts swinging hard the wrong way and that needs to stop.

On that note, the impotent legislative branch is not going to do much I think and it may barely matter who is in the big chair anyhow. Currently, I live in a battleground state so my vote may actually count this time.

Obama did better with Biden. Who likely sees it a semi-retirement mostly ceremonial job after his pre-election attack dog duties are done. Biden will not hurt or help him, no one will be swayed by old greaser Joe.

McCain's best argument against Obama was his lack of experience. There were even some misgivings among some Dems and older persons that Obama lacked experience even though they agreed with him on the issues.

But by choosing Palin, McCain has basically deprived himself of his best argument. He can no longer legitimately claim that 2 years in office is insufficient experience since his VP pick clearly states that someone with that experience is fit to be president.

Now if he's going to attack Obama it has to be on policy (which is an uphill battle since McCain will have a tough time distancing himself from Bush) and character (negative campaigning against Obama's likeable personality can only backfire - like the "celebrity" attack did).

If I was a Republican I'd be really upset with this. I can't imagine how this decision came about. It must be the same echo chamber mentality that selected Harriet Meyer for the Supreme Court.

(Message edited by lennox on August 29, 2008)

Just another example of McCain's primitive thinking and poor judgement. He thinks Obamas' achilles heel is his inability to win over the ice maiden's loyal supporters. Some have already said they would more likely vote for McCain. Pick a woman as VP running mate and the Hillary's girls will flock to him right ?? Oh --He forgot to mention she's a strident Pro Lifer and a life long member of the NRA - Yeah that's the bait to attract Hillary's followers.
The moron has likely now more or less pushed Hillary's supporters into Obamas' camp. 99% of them would hate to see this woman next in line to a guy unlikely to survive his term.

Thanks John !!

I think that the posts of brother Beachman underline what I've been saying all along, that McCain has nothing to offer, and if he succeeds at all it will only be by demeaning his opponent, same as the last presidential election.

The VP position is very important in this race because the odds are likely that either of the presidential contenders may not survive the next four years: McCain because of age combined with the stress of the office, should he choose to be an active president (anyone else remember how LBJ aged 20 years in less than 5?), and as for O I dare not put it in words (but his survival odds would be worse if Lady C. was VP).
Yes, that's cynical, but that's the way I see it.
I'm also interested in seeing what role the next VP plays as far as DC power politics goes, since the powers of the office have been redefined by Cheney.
She's a little too far to the right for me, but I think a Palin administration would be quite entertaining. Fritz Mondale said "you can't elect a president on entertainment value," and boy, was he wrong!

Hey, from what I'm seeing in this thread, Palin seems to be building MILF cred!


(Message edited by bendejo on August 30, 2008)

Palin has already popped out five kids. I imagine that pussy is pretty loose by now. She's no MILF. Give me a good Brazilian puta any day!

This is all hilarious. Obama preaching change selects someone that could not be more of a Washington insider. McCain has been hammering on inexperience from day one and selects this chick I have never heard of with no experience. WTF?

In the end, Obama fucked up the least. I really dont think many people vote based on the VP, but on McCain's side it is something you really have to think about because of his age. Can you imagine the VP debates? Biden is going to tear her up. I say he has her crying in the first 20 minutes.

Its almost like McCain is trying to throw the election.

Hammer away boys.

I for one cannot wait for the first nudie pics of Palin to show up on the web. Probably vintage "Beaver Hunt" style pics, but I'm sure they're out there somewhere.

This is truly a stupid decision by McCain. I received eleven emails yesterday from female Clinton delegates to the National Convention. All eleven are now firmly behind Obama, and strangely enough I am now as well. Of those eleven, seven were thinking of not voting for President at all prior to the convention, and three were still holding out as of yesterday morning (I'm a Biden fan and more-or-less turned the corner last weekend). Now, all are saying they're happy to have Obama.

I cannot imagine any women Clinton supporters going over to support McCain just because of Palin. I think the opposite actually. Its just in insulting attempt by the Republicans to split Democrats, which will only serve to actually get everyone back together.


(Message edited by catocony on August 30, 2008)

Yeah, but on the other hand McCain nailed down Beachman's vote with the selection.

And let's just hope if Cat is right about the photos, they don't come out until after it's too late for McCain to switch VP picks. I'm voting for around October 25.

And while we are on the subject of the McCain/Palin ticket's high qualifications for office, why don't we dwell a bit on the most notable "qualification" McCain has to be President:
http://www.236.com/news/2008/08/27/tonight_show_audience_tortured_8522.php

(Message edited by LAguy on August 30, 2008)

Palin's 5th child may actually be 16 year old daughter's.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/30/121350/137

Although the dailykos article (or "diary") above seems to make a good case, when one considers the following the case doesn't look so good.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/30/1744/30665/178/580523

I am watching a CNN expose on McCain that really shows what a sleezy bastart Johnny McVain really is and has been throughout his life. It covers everything from cheating on his first wife to his Keating Five scandals to his pretending to be whatever the situation or audience desires.

John McCain is a complete fraud that will only drag our nation down and his incredibly poor judgement in the PALIN selection proves that the man is totally unfit to lead our nation.

McCain is a crook!!! Keating five savings and loan scandal is a testament to his character. Obama wrote and gave a great speech. After 8 years of "the Nascar guy", it was great to hear someone with some intellegence. Like him or not, Obama did a great job in Denver. I look forward to watching the Repubs next week. Too bad Ron Paul did not run as an independent. It would have been great to see McCain squirm some more.

Ok, I was going to mention it yesterday but passed, figuring some else would bring it up.

"Commander in Chief"

Is McCain watching too much TV? Did he choose Palin only because he couldn't get Gina Davis?

I thought the Dems should have run Martin Sheen for the office in 2004, a lot of people would have voted for the 'incumbent.'

VPILF-A new acronym for the CH dictionary....LOL

Don't know about that one Sandman .

I wouldn't touch her with YOUR dick !!I see nothing attractive about her. Looks like a repressed frustrated bitch !!

It just keeps getting better and better. McLame should have done a whole lot more homework before he named Miss Runner Up as his Veep nominee. He touted her opposition to the "bridge to nowhere" as an example of her independence and fortitude. Turns out she was an ardent supporter of said bridge until it was politically expedient to oppose it . Just like McLame she bends with the political winds.

See USA today article --


http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-08-31-palin-bridge_N.htm?csp=34

Looks like Governor Palin's views on sex-ed worked out real well for her family.

Lets see, a 43yo women has an accidental pregnancy and knowingly brings a special needs baby into this world, one that most likely will need government assistance long after she is gone.

Now her 17yo daughter is 5 months pregnant, I guess that teaching abstinence instead of realistic sex education worked out real well.

Who would have thought that the Democrats could take the high ground on family values?

RG.

This keeps getting better and better. Roadglide hit it right on the head.

What happened to abstinence only? Wait until you get married? This illustrates why abstinence only programs are doomed to failure.

Excuse me while I grab some popcorn and wait for more interesting news to emerge on this poorly vetted and rushed VP pick.

And oh yeah, here is a video of her doing sports.
From Sports Reporter to mayor of tiny town, to governor of big state with tiny population to VP nomination. Yeah. She makes Obama look like an elder statesmen.

Yeah, McCain's judgment is grrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeat!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bza63nnqiKA

It's ironic that James Dobson called on his followers to pray for a storm last Thursday so that Obama would have to cancel his speech.

Sometimes you get what you want, just not at the time you want it. LOL

RG.

wow roadglide, you are so funny

That was accually god intervening on behalf of John McCain to provide an out for preventing Bush and Cheney from making speaches the opening night of the convention. Seriously. What is worse for McCain? Bush making a speach on his behalf or New Orleans getting hit by hurricane. God was looking out for McCain.

and Allah too

For once I agree with I am Sancho. Where we may disagree though is that I am now thinking of converting to Satanism.

I now see a report Bush is going to speak at the convention today. Looks like my conversion to Satanism has resulted in an instant payoff.

A live feed from Washington? What's up with that??

Fuck you Satan and the horse you rode in on. I'm back to being a secular humanist.

Abstinence education...isn't that a hoot! Abstinence education fails at a much higher rate than do condoms! And Sarah Palin champions this phenomenal waste of tax dollars because it's ideologically convenient to do so. How does that fit with fiscal conservativism? It doesn't. She is just another cynical politician who says one thing while doing the other. Just like her stance on earmarks. This is just mind-boggling!

Actually, Republicans don't have problems with non-marital teen pregnancies as long as (1) both mother and father are white, (2) she doesn't have an abortion, (3) they father and mother agree to marry (eventually), and (4) they agree to raise their baby as a fundamentalist Christian. All is forgiven in these instances. Let the father be black or the mother decide that she's not ready for marriage, and they will be condemned to burn in hell for their sins.

Of course, no one seems to care that almost all of these early marriages, even those involving kids from fundamentalist families, fail. It's all about appearances. Don't embarrass your parents, especially if they are fundamentalist politicians!!!

(Message edited by Bwana_dik on September 02, 2008)

For some really interesting commentary, I suggest checking out the www.crooksandliars.com blog. It's updated a few times a day and these folks work hard to pull up all the Republican gaffs. It's a treasure trove of Palin tidbits.