BT: With regard to your comments about a President pushing the button in a desperate attempt to re-establish U.S. power, I'm less concerned about the possibility of "calculated nuclear holocaust" than I am about a President losing it and going for the button. Probably the closest to that situation we have gotten in recent times was during the last days of the Nixon White House, when Nixon knew he was going to have to resign in disgrace and apparently heightened our "nuclear readiness," a possible precursor to using the bomb.

Presently, I would be similarly concerned that with McCain's temper and history, he may be vulnerable to similar personal-based bursts of irrationality, for example, if his melanoma were to return (reasonably likely) and his doctor were to tell him he was terminal. This is not a guy who can handle bad news well.

See for example the You Tube video at the end of the following article.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/09/report-mccain-exploded-wi_n_133242.html

After posting the above I decided to search around the internet a bit to find some more info on Nixon and nuclear readiness or nuclear alerts. Although I found some references to him dabbling with the nuclear option in 1969 and 1972, I didn't find (at least not yet) anything closer to when he resigned. So, either I'm misremembering, or I'm remembering something from a source such as Woodward or Bernstein that wasn't picked up by many media outlets.

Anyone with a better memory, or a source, that illuminates what admittedly is a side issue (given the topic of this thread)?

If ACORN were a Republican based vote registration group how the liberal media and all you liberal here would be screaming at the top of your lungs. And the fact that Obama was hired in the past by ACORN to train the operatives.


ACORN is practicing voter fraud across the country, even in the hometown of Harry Truman.

http://www.examiner.net/news/x1452587795/Voter-registration-records-questioned

In the hometown of Harry Truman you say? Now that is just wrong.

I just hope none of this alleged but unproven voter fraud is related to the link Beachman earlier posted with the headline: ""Militant BLACK Obama Youth Group: Let's SCARE the SHIT out of Barack's WHITE Grandma" (capitalizations as in original). I'm still waiting to hear from Beachman how he came to the conclusion this had "nothing to do about [sic] race"?

ACORN is small potatoes when it comes to voter fraud. If they want to get into the major leagues they will have to study the LordGodKing of voter fraud: an group who call themselves FLORIDA

Obama....."Ayers just guy in the neighborhood"



Is he telling the truth.....the "conservative" news channel did some investigating.....


Be sure to watch the whole video.....Did Obama tell the truth that he barely knew Ayers?




This guy bombed the US Capital and wishes he bombed more!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4EoEkI_sSs

Beachdick,

The stock market's just shit another 7% decline today. Do you think anyone gives a fuck about a guy in Chicago named Ayers?

McCain has some real sordid chronies as well. Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Rove, Rice.

Tsk, tsk.

23 days until the election and CH has turned from a site about fucking chicas/honey-kos/garotas worldwide into a political minefield.

Sorry, my doorbell just rang and my future Ex GF is waiting for me. She is so cute, multi-orgasmic and loves her little bunny vibrator.

In all reality...(OK, I let her inside and she is watching me type).

-A black American with an islamic name against a 72 year old aging Vietnam veteran, neither of whom has the slightest idea or experience of how to get us out of this economic mess we are in;

Where is Montgomery Brewester (Brewsters Millions) (or maybe that should be billions) when we need him? Just vote "no".

We will all be voting for the best of a bad lot!

Nov. 4th will be a sad day for America no matter who wins!

Excuse me, she is nibbling on my ear and beckoning me to the bedroom. I'll get back to you guys later.

Chou

In response to Beachman's false accusation of the Ayers issue. Perhaps you should have gotten your FACTS from a source other than Faux news corp. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/05/fact-check-is-obama-palling-around-with-terrorists/

What's next Beachman, an accusation that Obama was not born in the U.S.?

RG.

If McCain keeps talking about Ayers or Wright or some other moron, instead of about the economy, he will lose badly. No one wants to hear that shit, what we want are solutions to the current problems.

Beecho-man:
If ACORN were a Republican based vote registration group doing the same exact things you would never hear anything but praise for it on Fox News.

John McCain likes to shoot craps. He no doubt has accepted free drinks, hotel rooms , pussy etc from people connected with organized crime. Scream about that connection for a while.

Actually, McCain wasn't born in the US, he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. Technically, he is not eligible to be president. I distinctly remember when I lived in Germany and one of the goofier guys I knew insisted on flying his 8-months pregnant wife back to the US to give birth. Even though he was active-duty US Army and lived in Army housing, and the birth would have been at the Army hospital in Heidelberg, his kid wouldn't be able to President since being born abroad. Even at a US facility (military or diplomatic), that would not meet the Constitutional requirement.

The Panama Canal Zone was not an official US territory, thus he was born in a foreign country. Too bad his Admiral grandpa didn't put his pregnant daughter-in-law on a navy ship and sailed it into international waters, if she would have spawned him out there, on a navy ship, that would be considered a "domestic" birth.

I remember there was a little talk of this last year, maybe as an ace in the hole if another Florida-style recount was going to decide the president again this year. Looks like we won't have to worry about it.

Cat,

Are you sure about that?

>Although the French had attempted construction of a canal in the 1880s, the Panama Canal was successfully built from 1904 to 1914. Once the canal was complete the U.S. held a swath of land running the approximately 50 miles across the isthmus of Panama.

The division of the country of Panama into two parts by the U.S. territory of the Canal Zone caused tension throughout the twentieth century. Additionally, the self-contained Canal Zone (the official name for the U.S. territory in Panama) contributed little to the Panamanian economy. The residents of the Canal Zone were primarily U.S. citizens and West Indians who worked in the Zone and on the canal.

Anger flared in the 1960s and led to anti-American riots. The U.S. and Panamanian governments began to work together to solve the territorial issue. In 1977, U.S. President Jimmy Carter signed a treaty which agreed to return 60% of the Canal Zone to Panama in 1979. The canal and remaining territory, known as the Canal Area, was returned to Panama at noon (local Panama time) on December 31, 1999.

You know, that McCain guy seems a little erratic.

The Canal Zone was US territory - little t. It was never a Territory - big T - like Guam or Puerto Rico. The old rule applies - if you didn't go through US Immigration and Customs to get to it, you're not in the US.

The Panama Canal Commission used to be a customer of mine, along with all of the military bases like Howard, Quarry Heights, Amador, etc. I miss going down there for work, always a nice place to visit. The Canal Zone was about the only US version of the British country-club "colonial" outposts they used to have all over the world. I've been to Panama only once since the pullout and didn't go to the Canal area, I hope the Panamanians can maintain the area and keep it nice.

LAG: re Nixon: you might recall that after his trips to USSR and China, Nixon was always going on about not wanting to upset the detente. I’m not a hawk, but I thought they had him cowed.
I figured if he flipped he would pull some sort of national security emergency and initiate martial law, or something to that effect, asserting that the whole Watergate inquest was part of a subversive plot threatening the American way of life etc. When the infamous events of the "saturday night massacre" were unfolding (my then-wife and I were watching “Nightmare Alley” on TV, and were in, um, an alerted state), news bulletins interrupting the movie every 20 minutes or so I was saying “See? He’s doing it! I told you he’d flip out and do something like this!!” I was then expecting him to put DC under martial law so that no one could come to the White House to deliver a subpoena.

I can’t verify the truth of this one, but about 10 years later I read somewhere that he wanted have these boxes attached to everyone’s tv set that would allow him to interrupt whatever people were watching in the event of a national emergency.
I miss the guy. I still hate him as if he were alive.

Cat writes:
Actually, McCain wasn't born in the US, he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. Technically, he is not eligible to be president.

Ummm, no. Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution clearly states, "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

So what constitutes a "natural born citizen?" There are two ways to become a natural born citizen, being born on U.S. soil (which includes U.S. embassies, U.S. flagged ships and planes, U.S. military installations overseas, etc.) or by having at least one of your parents being a U.S. citizen. So, as long as one of McCain's parents were/are a U.S. citizen, he is a natural born citizen according to the Constitution.

And you never thought your high school government class would come in handy.

EA

It is really interesting to see McCain operate. McCain and his campaign has stoked up an incredible amount of anti-Obama fear and sentiments which then puts McCain in the unenviable position of HAVING to defend Obama from idiot racists in his own town hall meetings. And then McCain gets booed for it.

One lady calls Obama an Arab, McCain responds, "No, ma'am," McCain said several times, shaking his head in disagreement. "He's a decent, family man, [a] citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues and that's what this campaign is all about."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf6YKOkfFsE

The natural born citizen issue appears more complicated (and ambiguous) than the above discussion would seem to suggest.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/mccain/citizen.asp

The only attempt to establish who is a natural-born citizen is really the 14th Amendment. Everything else revolves around citizenship - parents are US citizens, that sort of thing.

If you guys remember, Bill Richardson made a big deal about his dad sending his pregnant wife on a train to the US from Mexico so she could give birth in the US. If not, he couldn't have run.

If you are born in a foreign country and at least one parent is a US citizen, then you are a US citizen. But not natural born, and disqualified from ever becoming President. The question has been answered regarding being born in a foreign country but on a military base or diplomatic mission. That should be a thumbs down as well. The question with McCain is, in 1936, was the Panama Canal Zone U.S. territory and thus an extension of the United States and thus, for this argument, as good as being born in Iowa. The added kicker is, he was born in a military hospital on a military base in the Canal Zone.

It's a gray area and if he were to win the election and a lawsuit was filed to disqualify him due to the "natural born clause", I think he would win it. But, it is an interesting question and one the Supreme Court would have to answer quickly. It kept Alexander Hamilton from ever running for President, so who knows what the outcome would be. Luckily, it looks like it won't come to that.

You guys crack me up. ;)

You are taking this stuff waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy to seriously ;)

Perhaps if everyone took this waaaaaayyyyy too seriously, over 4,000 U.S. soldiers wouldn't have been killed in Iraq for no reason; our economy wouldn't be crashing; and goddamnit, we would be able to enter the U.S. from Asia without being harassed by Customs and Immigration as though WE were terrorists.

The top heading today on the website www.fivethirtyeight.com is:

Does McCain Have Cooties?

The answer essentially is "yes."

So, for those of you who have not been persuaded by rational argument and/or the facts, I submit there is one final reason to vote for Obama: McCain has cooties.

I expect to see a sharp increase in Obama's polling numbers tomorrow as a result of this revelation.

Obama is now so far ahead of McCain that no one has ever overcome such a lead at this point in a campaign. Somehow, I don't see McCain as a comeback kid type.

About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new
constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the
University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian
Republic some 2,000 years earlier:

'A democracy is always temporary
in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of
government.'

'A democracy will continue to exist up until the time
that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public
treasury.'

'From that moment on, the majority always vote for the
candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the
result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal
policy, which is always foll owed by a dictatorship.'

'The average
age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has
been about 200 years'

'During those 200 years, those nations always
progressed through the following sequence:

1. From bondage to
spiritual faith;

2. From spiritual faith to great courage;

3.
From courage to liberty;

4. From liberty to abundance;

5. From
abundance to complacency;

6. From complacency to apathy;

7.
From apathy to dependence;

8. From dependence back into bondage'


Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law, St.
Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000

Presidential election:

Number of States won by:
Gore:
19
Bush: 29

Square miles of land won by:
Gore: 580,000
Bush:
2,427,000

Population of counties won by:
Gore: 127
million
Bush: 143 million

Murder rate per 100,000 residents in
counties won by:
Gore: 13.2
Bush: 2.1

Professor Olson adds: 'In
aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by
the taxpaying citizens of this great country.
Gore's territory mostly
encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living
off various forms of government welfare...' Olson believes the United State
s is now somewhere between the 'complacency and apathy' phase of Professor
Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's
population already having reached the 'governmental dependency' phase.

Where is the outrage from the Democrats and the media over ethics.
When did Peloski know about this and why did she cover it up!

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5997043&page=1

Beachman: Provide your evidence that Peloski [sic] covered up the malfeasance of this very junior congressman. Either provide the evidence (which is not in the link you posted) or quit blowing smoke out your ass.

Does Pelosi even know what Mahoney looks like? Jr. Representatives don't get face time with the leaders, he's just a dude in the back of the room of 240 people when they have caucus meetings and such.

Breachman,

Your naivete continues to astound! Ever heard of Snopes? Well, check this out:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/tyler.asp

As you'll note, if you can read, there are a rather large number of factual errors in this turd that's been floating around the internet since 2000.

Among the few accurate statements:

Square miles of land won by:
Gore: 580,000
Bush:
2,427,000

Population of counties won by:
Gore: 127
million
Bush: 143 million

But this raises a question: So what? Do we give bonus electoral points for winning states that are large, but largely unpopulated? "Alaska only has 3 electoral votes, but there are a lot of mountains, lakes, and caribou, so politicians who take Alaska should get extra credit." Is that the logic? We have an electoral system based on population size and geographical representation, not square miles.

And notice that the number of states attributed to Bush and Gore add up to 48. Does this mean that Right Wingnuts (notice, IAS, I don't conflate conservatives or Republicans with Right Wingnuts like Bleachman) don't know how many states the Union has? ROTFLMAO

So, when will Beachman pivot from "McCain is going to win" to "well, maybe Obama is going to win, but he will be a crappy president" ????

McCain apparently chokes on his own bullshit:

And notice that the number of states attributed to Bush and Gore add up to 48. Does this mean that Right Wingnuts (notice, IAS, I don't conflate conservatives or Republicans with Right Wingnuts like Bleachman) don't know how many states the Union has? ROTFLMAO

I believe Obama supporters should quietly tiptoe away from any arguments related to who is to ignorant to know how many states the Union has. Your side would lose that one.

No point in arguing about who should be president anymore. It is Obama, unless you are Helen Keller (legally blind and deaf).

If any of the right wingers out there want to argue about something potentially productive for their cause, how about the Senate? Anyone want to take on Musgrove, the candidate from Mississippi who may well give the Democrats their fillibuster-proof majority?

Then again, maybe Martin from Georgia or Lunsford from Kentucky will give the Democrats the luxury of being able to kick Lieberman out of the caucus.

There's good info on the house races on this site today, it's looks like the Dems think might be able to completely take the filibuster away form the Republicans in both chambers.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

Actually, they could have a filibuster-proof margin in the Senate. There are no filibusters in the House. Debate is theoretically unlimited in the Senate; the Senate can only limit debate through unanimous consent to do so or by invoking cloture. In the House debate is always limited by the rules attached to any bill prior to its coming to the floor by the Rules Committee.

Sorry for the civics lesson. You can tell I've spend too much time in DC.

Just read Kathleen Parker's take on the debate. This is a woman whose views are far to the right of your typical Fox News commentator. But she made it clear that McCain screwed the pooch last night:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2008/10/the_final_debate_their_essenti.html#more

Thanks Bwana I appreciate the correction but doesn't an 80 seat majority in the house infer some super majority perk?

No, the House is straight majority rules. If it's 218-217, it's the same from a rules perspective as if it were 434-1. The Speaker sets the rules.

Interesting times are ahead in the election.

I hope these polls and results hold up, but the Gallup poll today shows a tightening in the race.

Fingers crossed until election day, but things may get a lot more interesting from here on out.

(Message edited by xenono on October 16, 2008)

Don't worry Xenono, it's over.

Although today's Gallup poll of likely voters shows only a 6 percent advantage for Obama, most other polls are showing a bit more of an advantage for Obama. And once the post-debate polling data are incorporated, the gap between Obama and McCain should increase.

Barring some unforeseen game-changing event, McCain is toast. I'm not even sure Bin-Laden's capture or death would help him much, particularly given if Bin-Laden is captured or killed it would be the result of Bush having adopted Obama's game plan re the border areas of Pakistan.

Here is example of why Obama's promise of Health Care won't work and he knows it.


That what socialism does....

HONOLULU – Hawaii is dropping the only state universal child health care program in the country just seven months after it launched.

Gov. Linda Lingle's administration cited budget shortfalls and other available health care options for eliminating funding for the program. A state official said families were dropping private coverage so their children would be eligible for the subsidized plan.

"People who were already able to afford health care began to stop paying for it so they could get it for free," said Dr. Kenny Fink, the administrator for Med-QUEST at the Department of Human Services. "I don't believe that was the intent of the program."

HONOLULU – Hawaii is dropping the only state universal child health care program in the country just seven months after it launched.

Gov. Linda Lingle's administration cited budget shortfalls and other available health care options for eliminating funding for the program. A state official said families were dropping private coverage so their children would be eligible for the subsidized plan.

"People who were already able to afford health care began to stop paying for it so they could get it for free," said Dr. Kenny Fink, the administrator for Med-QUEST at the Department of Human Services. "I don't believe that was the intent of the program."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081017/ap_on_re_us/child_health_hawaii


Obama's promise that 95% of taxpayers will get tax breaks will work the same way. The 5% he says will pay for everything will shelter the money or move it overseas.....but all in all they won't sit back and pay for social programs for the other 95%.

Or as Obama says "spread the wealth around."

2nd Debate.....Obama made it known Health Care is a right! So the 70% of Americans overweight and 30% are obese (FAT) these FAT Americans will have a "right" for all Americans to subsidize their Health Care while they stuff their faces.


Both Truman and Eisenhower tried to pass national health care and the ADA (American Medical Association) fought it tooth and nailagainst it.

Doctors don't want preventive care......if people were healthy their business would suffer.

They make money by treating with drugs, surgery and radiation. They lose money if they truely teach people how to be healthy. They get less than 3 hours of nutritional education in their schooling.

You think the oil companies are screwing us.....the medical lobbyists cost his country far more than any other industy.


We can argue all you want about who is conservative and who is liberal......but can't you see....it will soon be all about socialism!

Colin Powell is quite eloquent and graceful in articulating almost every point for and against each candidate. Amazingly, I agree with him on just about every point he makes.

Here is the video:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/10/powell_endorses_obama.html?nav=rss_blog

It is also a powerful rebuke of the Bush Administration and their policies the last eight years. He's probably waited to do something like this for four years and he does it without ever mentioning Bush. Powell was the only moderate in that administration and he was constantly over-powered by the Cheney-Rumsfeld gang.

Damned shame we don't get to vote for Colin Powell for president.

BeachWorm,

Obama's health care is not perfect and the man is smart enough to fix what is wrong. On the other hand, McCain does not even have a clue as to what is wrong with health care in this country.

In fact McCain does not even have a clue what is wrong with his campaign strategy or how to keep his myth alive. When you talk lesser of two evils, it is clear that the only McCain you know is the one his campaign has manufactured.

Go buy the October 16 issue of rolling stone to learn what a complete scumbag and fraud McCain really is.

Obama is a great american who works for his fellow man. McCain is just a nasty little worthless dishonest self serving man who suffered the indignities of a POW camp and lived to embellish it.

H4A2

DEMOCRAT -- One whom protects the people from the corporations.

REPUBLICAN -- One whom protects the corporations from the people. All that crap about abortion, gay marriage and illegal immigrants is just a distraction to fool voters.

BEACHWORM -- A Kool-aid drinking, drudge report reading, fox new watching, rush limbaugh adoring fool in love with ann coulter.

(Message edited by Hot4ass2 on October 19, 2008)

The funny part about McCain bitching about health care is that, except for maybe a few months between the time he resigned his Navy commission until he was elected to Congress, he has been under a Federal health plan his entire life. And for you Republicans, that includes his "time in the womb". First a Navy dependent, then active-duty Navy, then as a Representative and Senator. When he retires from the Senate in 2010, his retiree health plan will be Federal with Medicare.

Actually, as an ex-POW, he was covered between the navy and congress, at least to some extent.

Phoenix, 'Damned shame we don't get to vote for Colin Powell for president'. He sold out once before, his endorsement is greatly diminished on both the right and the left.

>Colin Powell...He sold out once before

I'm not at all convinced of that. I suspect he was grossly misinformed by our intelligence services. But I guess that's a discussion for a different thread.

Rolling Stone Link

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain

Make-Believe Maverick
A closer look at the life and career of John McCain reveals a disturbing record of recklessness and dishonesty
By TIM DICKINSONPosted Oct 16, 2008 7:00 PM