There's been quite of bit of discussion on the Web Board about going bareback. Some of the points brought up there deserve to be archived here. There are different issues involved: health, ethics and motivation are just a few. Here are some of my own thoughts. Feel free to stomp on them.

First off, the health issue: It's just FUCKING STUPID don't do it!. That being said, we've all done stupid things (ie: drinking and driving, eating oysters from the street vendors etc). Just to let you know my perspective, I've done it twice.

Next ethics: My own gut tells me that none of us are actually advocating banging these chicas bareback. Anyone with that kind of mentality probably isn't smart enough to get a login ID. A post on the Web Board yesterday referred to people going bareback as selfish and showing a lack of regard for the ladies. I doubt that this is the case, simply because anyone going bareback is showing the same regard for the chicas health as his own (none). Of course, this assumes the guy is healthy to start. If he knows he's infected and intentionally spreading disease, he should be shot.

Motivation: I think with guys, it's simple. The little head does the thinking for the big head. We can be reduced to basic animals when we get too comfortable too drunk and too horny. It's no excuse, but it's true and has to be guarded against.
I'm amazed at the ladies' motivation though.
The first time it happened with me, I had a chica actually hide the rubber that came wrapped in the towel. I was caught totally off guard. She was acting like it was perfectly natural. I, like a dumb shit, went along and did the deed. When we were getting ready to go, she picked up her purse and the rubber was lying on the little table underneath it. She just smiled and said we'd use it next time. I saw her a few months later. She had put on a few pounds. I haven't seen her since. I've got a really bad feeling about that.

A couple of months ago, I met up with a chica I really like. We were doing an all nighter. We had finished one round of great nookie and dozed off. We wake up and start back to the foreplay. It gets pretty hot under the covers, she reaches down and slides Mr. Johnson in for a visit. Next thing I know, I'm bopping her bareback. I come to my senses and pull out. "You no finish?" I tell her we shouldn't be doing that "Por que?" I tell her I don't want any bambinos. "I want Bambinos." I remind her that she already has bambinos. "I want baby with blue eyes!" I told her that probably wouldn't work besides I didn't want a baby. "Not your baby…. MY baby" I asked her if she was the mother, who would be the father. "I am mother and father" I finally get across that I'm not out for stud service (hell of a thought though… Maybe, I should have negotiated a price). I thought she might be pissed, but she was a good sport and finished me off again with her tonsils.

But, the last trip was really SCARY when I think about it. I was towards the end of an hour-plus session with who I think is the busiest chica at AB. She asked me if I wanted to finish bareback. I declined. If this chica did all of her guys bareback (which I doubt) hundreds of people could get burned! Then, that same day, right in the bar, another chica was offering me to do her up the butt bareback. When I put her off, she approached all my friends and offered up bareback service.

So let's keep our heads about us, guys. BOTH of them!

Don't forget that if you catch something not only will you get busted, but all of your buddies will get busted too!

"I swear, honey, all five of us went out for dinner after work. I have no idea how Mr. Shadow got those sores."

The Senator

Another point: you did a "great" favor to your future son by not allowing him to be born AND suffer a life of sure misery. There's already enough "bastardos" in the world as it is...

PS: Sorry but I just don't think too highly of selfish women who want to have kids WITHOUT father.

Boy, I go away for a while, and it is amazing what shows up here!

I guess anybody with a computer and internet access can say anything, but I just spent the last 1/2 hour reading this gibberish. (Granted, of course that MY credentials are valid, but believe what ever you want).

OK, so now BBF does NOT increase the risk of AIDS? And if you choose to take any risk, that
would be the same as accepting unlimited risk? And you really can't get AIDS from heterosexual
sex? And if one of you bastards has HIV and has unprotected sex with a chica and gives her HIV, it WON'T increase MY risk of getting sick???

What planet are you guys on?

For the record:
1. HIV is spread MOSTLY by heterosexual sex. Meaning MEN give it to WOMEN who give it to MEN.

2. Testing does not eliminate the risk; there is a long "latency period" when a test will come back
negative, during which a person is still infective. BUT, I really doubt that any chica who tests positive will draw much of a crowd here or anywhere else if that info gets out.

3. BBF increases the risk of the chica getting HIV.

4. Condoms Decrease (but do not eliminate completely) the risk of HIV transmission in either
direction. Chicas who always use condoms are at much lower risk of getting HIV.

5. Chicas at risk of getting HIV are certainly more at risk of GIVING HIV.

6. I'll be sure to explain to my HIV+ patients that they didn't get it from sex, no matter how much they deny other risk factors.

7. Mexican HIV rates are notoriously unreliable, because it is generally NOT TESTED for, and
even then NOT REPORTED. Gee, if they can't pay to treat it (or even for tortillas & frijoles),
why test for it???

8. And finally, just because some mongers consider all risk acceptable, why increase the risk pool for others (like me)? And if you DON'T think that unprotected heterosexual sex spreads HIV, why not just humor me (and the others from the GAY--HEALTHCARE Professionals--Religious
Right conspiracy).

You worry about things too much Shadow.

Oh, and about not coming in that chick... Don't kid yourself, she probably DID try to hump the next guy bareback, and he probably DID come in her. She sounds like a chick I know - she doesn't happen to be a little chunky, and have really big tits, does she?

A lot of these chicks that go bareback are either fixed, on the pill, have a problem getting pregnant for some reason or another, and invariably are fairly drunk.

While they ARE Catholic, and condoms are no-nos to Catholics(it just compounds the sin), I don't think that this is the main motivation.

STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I do not advocate or encourage BBFing - but I also view an occasional BBF slipup(such as yours) or broken condom as not "the end of the world".

Brother D.,
Get ready for the avalanche to fall on your head, dude.

Notice the good Brother Doc studiously avoids THE ONLY ISSUE anyone's been talking about re: HIV transmission in his little blurb--Doc, c'mon, what are the figures on female to male transmission? Don't make up arguments you *think* somebody is making, which nobody really is--address the one being made please. Of all cases of HIV transmission, what's the percentage of those that can be linked clearly to female to male vaginal intercourse, as compared to, say, penis to anus male to male intercourse, or needle to infected arm to non-infected arm, or intravenous drug user male to female? I'm really interested if you know of some reputable figures that back up the hysterics we've seen here and elsewhere. If you don't, you ain't telling us nothing we don't already know (condom-less sex increases risk of HIV transmission--duh! the issue is HOW GREAT IS THE RISK FOR FEMALE TO MALE W/OUT CONDOM? DON'T AVOID THE ISSUE, DOC!). I'll reissue the standard disclaimer--ain't nobody advocatin' nothin' here, just some of us don't buy everything we're told if no good arguments or facts are supplied with it.

One more thing, Doc. I realize you're a medical doctor and not a philosopher, but don't it strike you as just a LITTLE odd that here we got an MD monger, presumably (if I'm misreading your post and you AIN'T a monger, that changes what follows, but doesn't eliminate it, 'cause you're still making distinctions between 'responsible' mongers and 'irresponsible' ones) out there in the immoral, risk-laden monger field getting his monger groove on, apparently seeing NO PROBLEM whatsoever in the fact that almost EVERYONE ELSE in your profession would denounce your activity as intolerably risky, indeed, they'd CRUCIFY you if they could as the very PORTRAIT of EVIL (an MD whoremonger?!?!) while he's unproblematically using the very same standards of the med profession to denounce another, HYPOTHETICAL ('cause ain't nobody promoted it personally yet) approach to risk-taking, just because it don't fit HIS model. YOU'RE too risky for THEM, THE HYPOTHETICAL NOW-AND-AGAIN BBF MONGER is too risky for YOU. My question is this: WHO DRAWS THE LINE AS TO WHAT'S OBJECTIVELY TOO RISKY? Your colleagues, who would fry you if they found out what you're doing? Or little old YOU? Or someone else? Just askin', that's all.

http://www-ctp.mit.edu/~alford/aids.html

http://phps.dhs.co.la.ca.us/hiv/reports/epipro/1998/epipro46.htm

Check out esp. in the second site the percentage of males who contracted HIV who got it from het sex. Check it out. Check it out. That's ALL I been sayin', my brothers, and you got me and others sayin' all kinds of other crazy things. SHAME ON YOU!

Dude, the numbers that MATTER and the ones nobody can actually SEE are the following: If you fuck 10,000 HIV+ chicas (yeah, you're Wilt Chamberlain and your entire pool of partners is HIV+) sin condon, how many times will YOU contract HIV? In MY book if that number is greater than ONE the odds are too great, pass the condones por favor. Needless to say, I think the odds are a whole lot higher than that. Yeah, the wool has successfully been pulled over my eyes. I can proceed on faith here and not have to learn it the hardest of hard ways.

My brother,
What you just wrote don't make a lot of sense. Of course, you can only get HIV once. Whether you use condoms or not, you can only get it once. And? How does that reflect on what I'm saying? Using condoms doesn't make the possibility of getting it go away, specially if you're fuckin' 10,000 HIV+ers. For the hundredbezillionth time, what I'm arguing is that in fact the difference between your chances of getting it from het vag intercourse w/out condom and w/condom have been GREATLY exaggerated--I never said there was NO difference, just that it ain't nowhere near as big as some of you guys seem to believe it is.

Don't fool yourself, bro--you might one day have to "learn it the hardest of hard ways" even if you get a body-sized condom and never come out of it. That's what "risky behavior" means. You seem to think we're arguing about the difference between no risk and high risk, whereas what's really at stake is relatively low risk vs. relatively slightly lower risk. The stakes are for the individual VERY HIGH, it's true, as high as they get, in fact, and that's perhaps what gets you guys all riled up when somebody like me says what I'm saying here. The question of the stakes and whether they're worth betting on is however a DIFFERENT question than whether or not the hysteria about female to male HIV transmission rates is based on reality or hype. Nothing I've seen here yet shows any evidence that I'm wrong on that second question.

Ritmo: BB girls to avoid. Please post a list of girls you have done so that I can avoid them. BB with a prostitute may not have a high probability of infection (there are other STDs besides HIV) but they do a lot of johns. Frequency times risk is a higher probability of infection.

I would like to know what types of sickness or diseases can be transmitted through kissing and oral sex. Can hepatitis B be transmitted through kissing?
-- kiss and ask


dear kiss,
The short answer to this question is that almost all STDs can be transmitted through oral sex, and yes, hepatitis B can be transmitted through kissing. But to really understand the risks of such transmission, you need to know more about the basic transmission of STDs.

Even the definition of the term "sexually transmitted diseases" has grown muddled in recent years. We now think of them in two categories, those that are predominately transmitted through sexual activity, and those that are occasionally but not predominately transmitted through sex. In the former group would be the old bacterial STDs, gonorrhea, syphilis, chlamydia and others, and the more recently-important viral STDs, HIV, hepatitis B, genital warts, herpes, and others.

You must also consider the efficiency of the transmission in each bodily fluid. Male semen is the most efficient transmission fluid. The viruses and several of the bacteria are present in large numbers, and ejaculation, whether into a vagina, a rectum, or the mouth, carries a high risk of infection. It is for this reason that condoms are such an important method of preventing infection.

Vaginal secretions are a less efficient transmission fluid, so male to female, or male to male, infection is easier than female to male or female to female, whether through intercourse or oral sex. But even if less efficient, there obviously is a lot of female to male transmission.

Saliva is the least efficient transmission fluid, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. Many cases of Hepatitis B transmission through saliva have been described. The HIV virus has been found in saliva, but I'm not aware of any definite cases of transmission in which saliva was the only fluid exchanged.

Gonorrhea, syphilis, chlamydia, herpes and genital warts can all occur in the mouth or throat, so transmission by kissing is at least theoretically possible.

So how can you protect yourself, and your partner? Always use condoms, at least until you know that this is a monogamous relationship, and you both have been tested appropriately. Don't have multiple partners. Frequent changes of partners greatly enhance transmission. Don't mix sex with drugs. Sexually transmitted diseases are very common in crack and heroin using inner city populations. Consider mutual masturbation. That's the least efficient method of transmission of all.

DrDick

"OK, so now BBF does NOT increase the risk of AIDS?"

I didn't say anything remotely like that. You must be referring to something from the other board.

Diego

"She sounds like a chick I know - she doesn't happen to be a little chunky, and have really big
tits, does she?"

That was last chica I referred to in my post

Salsa Boy:

What is the source of those question and answer formats you post? Do you write them yourself, or copy them from a site (if so, URL please).

Ritmo:

I agree with you. Female to male transmission of HIV during vaginal intercourse is inefficient compared to male to female transmission during vaginal intercourse, or compared to anal intercourse, or compared to contaminated needle exposure.

Unless of course the female is menstruating, or has another source of vaginal bleeding, or there is any other STD present which may affect the integrity of skin and mucosal defenses or may increase the number of HIV target cells present in the area, or may increase the concentration of HIV viral particles in the vaginal secretions, and the presence of which both parties are likely to be unaware of. But I digress. None of that stuff is important.

So, I agree with you. Female to male transmission of HIV during vaginal intercourse is inefficient compared to male to female transmission during vaginal intercourse, or compared to anal intercourse, or compared to contaminated needle exposure.

So what?

Is there some recommendation or other practical conclusion that we can draw from this fact that might be of use to the readers of this newsgroup? If not, can we stop arguing about this particular fact?

Sorry, my brother, but what I am concluding from your countless posts repeating the same fact over and over is an awesome determination to demonstrate that you have powers far beyond those of mortal mongers to think "outside the box."

Ironically, of utmost concern to us mindless sheep
is an awesome determination to get inside her box, and as safely as possible at that.

Use condoms and have a nice day.

Shy Guy

One smart free thing to do!If you go to TJ and partake in the hobby,go today to the SD health clinics and start the hepatitis shots.

Shy Guy,
Here is my source http://thriveonline.oxygen.com/sex/ lots of good information @ this site. In the future I will try and clarify my sources.
SB

Brother SG,
Of course, my brother, of course. It's getting old for me too, to have to say the same thing over and over. It's just that some people CONTINUE to say that I'm saying other things, and they CONTINUE to accuse me of 'crimes' and so forth, so I've felt some need to make the point so inescapable that only the most determined (his name starts with P) will be able to continue to misinterpret and distort everything I say. In respect to you, my brother, I'm done now. Last word to Porker and the other hysterics.

Somebody sed: "Where's Dr. Dick when we need him?"

I'll say: "Where's West Fargo when we need him?"

Diego, still waiting on an e-mail from you. I need to talk to you.

Lakers
juanstijuana@hotmail.com

I think some people are missing a point. Even if female (vaginal) to male transmission of HIV in normal circumstances a lower risk. The practices that prostitutes and mongers partake in are not a typical sexual encounter due to volumes i.e. (six trips upstairs a night). Additionally you don't have to be a Dr. to know that HIV is transmitted through blood products, an HIV+ man's semen will likely contain the HIV virus. Here is where your high high risk is for the next guy coming along who also is going with out a condom, and lets not forget about the girls (NFC there). Besides does anyone really want sloppy 6ths, though this may not be the right place to ask that question.

It really is a useless point to make that hetero vaginal sex is less risky.

Ritmo is correct when he says this, but it should never be an option to have sex without a condom unless you are in a monogamous relationship with a woman. Period.

Ritmo is incorrect when he says you can only contract HIV once however. Once again this too is a useless point to argue, but I figured what the hell. You can actually contract more than one strain of HIV virus after having already contracted the original strain. It can actually make your sickness worse and make it harder to prevent impending death with the drug cocktails.

Anyways, point being, Ritmo is right, its less risky, but so is jumping out of a plane with a parachute versus without. You're a dumb shit if you do it without one, either way. Same goes for condoms.

Many girls do not wash before and after sex, especially SGs. Brushing your teeth can form many small cuts in the gums. So dont brush just swallow.

I wanted to ask a question.

I make it a rule for myself now to see the girl's health card stamps before we do anything.

In all reality, how much of a security measure is this for me? I realize they wouldnt be there in the first place if they didn't have their health card, as they do get checked at the door.

I also realize though, that these health cards are just stamps which show they GOT TESTED. There is nothing on those cards which state that they got *NEGATIVE* results back, is there? What use is it to me to know they got blood drawn?

Thanks for any insight.

694ME
What you say about small cuts in ones mouth is why
going down on a girl can be so dangerous.DO YOU HEAR THAT ATHOS?

Lakers;

I don't like e-mailing from work - it could be "monitored". Not that I'm doing anything wrong, mind you - but I figure there will always be some folks who wouldn't "appreciate" my sex life.

Scooter;

You bring up a good point, my man(about the semen in the vagina).

So, for any of you Cowboys out there that ARE BBFing, please pull out and shoot on her tits, her belly-button, or just give her a facial.

Thank you.

To Shadow/Diego
The "little chunky, and have really big tits" AB chica.
Fellas, who is this girl? Or at least give some more hints.
I would certainly like to know the girls who are BBFing left and right. I would bet most girls do it now and then, but I want to avoid the girls doing it every night.
The HIV latency is absolutely true, up to 1 year in recession that it could not be possibly detected. Therefore, you could have a girl in AB doing BBF, getting tested everyday negative, and then one day it appears from one guy she did 6 months ago!

I think you have to assume that every "working" girl to have some type of nasty. Why??:

1) This is Mexico -- is anything honest or legitimate there.
2) The bars make money off the girls regardless of the health statuses -- when did you ever see AB/CC closed.
3) The girls are mostly 18-22 (i.e. not brightest age)
4) Basic Math -- High Volume x Low Risk = Increased probability of something
5) Drugs -- with increased cash, these girls are doing something like Crystal/Heroine (needles).
6) Health cards are an indication they got "tested" for something. It does not mean they are healthy.
7) Drunken guys that never get tested who probably are too messed up to even realize they had BBF'd.
8) I was going to list to 10 but I suddenly have myself sick and I'm going to the clinic to get test now....
9 & 10) DON'T BE FUCKING STUPID!!!!!!!

Agreed with # 6. How helpful is a health card? They dont tell us she's clean, they only tell us she got blood drawn on that date. Where is the stamp that says they got results back and are "non-reactive" to HIV Antibodies?

ALOT of those girls are chunky with really big tits. this is my first time on here so that's all I got to say. and one more thing is that I want to thank the creator of this site for making it. I love this site because I get to talk with guys about my favorite place AB. Thank You!

"The Creator", huh. I like the ring of it.

Shit TJHombre, you are right up their with God.

Well, there aren't any "Baby Shadows" running around Sonora! Contrary to what CityOG predicted.

Read the first post in this topic for background.

The Senator and I were at the upper bar at AB yesterday. I though I saw a girl who hadn't been there in over a year. She was a dancer on my first trip to TJ. She was the first girl to really rock my world, there. She was the first girl I ever repeated, first girl I made cry and the first girl I did bareback.

The last time I had seen her was over a year ago, she had already put on some weight pretty quickly, and she wasn't feeling well at the time. That was two months after our bareback session, which is why CityOG gives me shit about "Baby Shadows"! It's been bugging me for a year.

So, I see her head to the Hombre's room to buy some gum or something. I go to "take a leak". It's definately her, but she's really packed on some weight. She recognizes me and I offer to buy her a drink.

We sit and I ask her where she's been. She told me that she was gone for a year to take care of her bambino. I ABOUT SHIT MY PANTS! But, I maintained my cool "Oh, you have a bambino?"

"Se, quatro anos" (YES!!!)

We head upstairs. She's not remotely the performer she once was. The nookie was mediocre at best. Then she offers up the bareback service AGAIN! Mr Johnson goes right to sleep and I politely closed that chapter in the book of Shadow.

Shadow
You sure are picking the winners.I get BBBJ's all the time usually because the girl's know it is good for their business but I never have even been offered bareback intercourse.I know I don't have to tell YOU this but any girl offering bareback intercourse should be avoided.No girl down in the zona is worth those risks.I really(LOL)do believe you are the only one she does that for.

Shadow Shadow Shadow,

I didn't think you were really that worried but I'm glad you and her came out clean. If you know what I mean. Anyway Just LOL.

Valentino

A couple of weeks ago, I was in the jacuzzi with a chica, on MY side of the jacuzzi mind you, and she crossed over to my side and inserted me in her.

I lasted about 30 seconds before common sense prevailed and I pushed her away.

Later on, she told me that she didn't use any contraception methods other than condoms. When I asked her why she 'forgot' her condom in the jacuzzi, she told me that *I* had inserted myself in her without the condom. When I reminded her that I had remained on my side of the jacuzzi, and that they had crossed over to screw *me*, she said nothing.

Go figure.

BTW, this is a chica who is normally religious about condoms.

She may have believed the old myth that STD's can't survive in a jacuzzi.

Thirty seconds intercourse? Is that enough to get infected? And that question brings me back to one I asked a while ago which went unanswered: at what point in time does a monger get infected if he gets infected? Is it immediately upon insertion, some later moment before orgasm, or at orgasm?

A well-known chica always offers me bareback intercourse "as long as you don't come in my pussy". Fortunately I have had the willpower to refuse each time. Besides the potential for STD transmission, what I don't really understand is that she uses no form of birth control. So does anyone think that she wouldn't mind having an American baby?

A Hoping to see some light shed on these questions kind of guy,

Out-of-Towner

I have been told that the most riskie time is right after you come. The story goes, that after a man ejaculates, a small ammount of seman and vaginal lubrication is sucked back into the urithera(sp). Where it is traped untill you pee and force it out. To me this make sence since in any discussion of safe sex it is allways recomended that you pee as soon after sex as possible. Remember this is the Most dangerious time but not the only time you can contract an STD from unprotected sex. USE YOUR CONDOMS.

As always, any mention of bareback sex degenerates to one question:

What about MY DICK?

I know a popular Chica at AB with three kids from three different "fathers", all of them from AB. As mortifying as an STD could be, would it make your life as rough as one more Bastardo in Sonora?

We all go to TJ to think with our dicks. But, the implications could be much greater. Unless you just don't give a shit.

From an earlier post in this thread:

- - - - - - - - - -
"What planet are you guys on?

For the record:
1. HIV is spread MOSTLY by heterosexual sex. Meaning MEN give it to WOMEN who give it to MEN. "
- - - - - - - - - -

This is just NOT TRUE. Heterosexual sex accounts for about 4% of the total cases. 88% of the cases are spread by homos or druggies sharing needles or a combination of both.

Here's the URL if anyone would want to check the FACTS...

http://www.doh.state.fl.us/disease_ctrl/aids/updates/facts/facts.html

Am I saying that HIV/AIDS is not dangerous, or a consideration in using a condom? Of course not!

AIDS was the 17th leading cause of death in the USA during 1997-98 although by now it's closer to the 30th leading cause.

Bottom-line: If you fuck an unknown hooker, without using a condom, it's very unlikely you'll catch HIV -- even if she has it -- unless you've got some cuts or abrasions somewhere on your love missle.

But don't do it.....

WHO-UNAIDS and all of the reputable statisics show that nearly 50% of new AIDS cases world wide come from heterosexual activities.

www.who.int/emc-hiv/fact_sheets/index.html

This is the most comprehensive source of data on HIV by geography, type of tranmission, new infections.

http://www.virusmyth.net

http://www.aliveandwell.org

A little patience, time, and brain power will be required....otherwise, carry on.

Hey Gentlemen,

Sorry for the attitude if one was perceived. I just feel there are some big lies to be enlightened to on the subject of HIV/AIDS especially that all these millions of dollars are basically doing absolutely nothing other than to support all the individuals within the industry.

It's so convincing to hear "respected"
news personalities delivering "the facts".

Lies=$$$(funding)

Eunuch

I can believe that 50% of new cases "Worldwide" are hetro, but from what I have read, in Africa...the world hotspot for aids...vaginal wetness is culturally tabboo and steps are taken to dry out the vagina for sex. They actually put drying agents in the vagina...I've even heard sand may be used. A dry vagina is not a happy vagina when a big cock is sliding in and out of it and both the penis and vagina get torn up, creating a wonderful viral transmission medium.
Don't do it.

Adelito, that's so funny, you did hear right, I use to use sand on my African honey all the time. She insisted!!! It was the only way she could come too! The derma-abrasion action also hastens the natural exfoliation process which keeps the dick looking shiny and youthfull. And the doctor says I'm fine so far. No diarrhea or anything yet.

Adelito ---

I'm with you on that "crap stat". 50% of the new cases being from 'normal' (i.e. no intentional blood-letting or druggie needles) hetero sex??? That's B/S.

And even if that came from the WHO I'd be very suspect. In today's politcally correct climate, it's suicide to blame homos, as a group, for anything. And it isn't beyond the WHO to skew test results.

Do you realize what would happen if the majority of people BELIEVED that HIV was primarily a gay disease??? Just think for a moment.

Again, I'm not defending going bareback. But there are just so many lies surrounding this AIDS thing for fear of offending.......

You know you guys are going around and around on the risks because you are talking generalities. Every risk evaluation has to take into account the VERY SPECIFIC circumstances. Do you guys know that life insurance companies before writing very large policies (e.g. 10M+) will actually spend considerable time interviewing and investigating the person before accepting and pricing the policy? Not the demographics or group - the actual person, their history and life style.

I have engaged multiple times in BB sex with a Prostitute (a Brazilian Garota de Programa - GP from now on), but under the following circumstances:
1 - Vaginal sex BB ONLY.
2 - I always put on a condom before cumming.
3 - Never when she has her periodo.
4 - We both got before first BB and get tested for HIV and STDs (everything from hepatitis on down), every 3 months (this should really be more often, I admit).
5 - I know her lifestyle. She was relegious about hygiene before and after sex (so am I), does not drink more than one or two beers a night, has very strict rules of what she will/will not do, etc..
6 - She was for a long time totally religious about condom use with me, until we made a concientious decision to change things, and I firmly believe whe is with others (yes, I know in the end it is my judgment call on that).
7 - She will not go out one or two days before I come over (yes, we do keep in touch that much that I know her life pretty well).
8 - I never do BB in the first few days we are together. Since we spend virtually the whole time together when I'm there, that eliminates the "recent fluid in her danger", and most (not all) of the other STDs that have symptoms.
9 - She is white, well-off financially (i.e. can pick who she hooks) virtually only hooks white western-Europeans (occasional american or Japanese) that reasonably groomed, fit, good looking, 35+ in Rio for work. I know occasionally she makes exception if it is a slow night, etc, etc.
10 - I never ever have sex with my wife without condoms, since I started going BB with her, and never have sex until 10-14 days after coming back from Brazil (incubation period of most STDs other than HIV).
11 - Like almost everyone else that gets a GP in Rio, there is always lots of kissing/touching before and after intercourse.
12 - She has been hooking for 2 years, and has never ever tested positive for any STD/STI (yes I have seen her past and present test results, as she has seen mine). That tells me that she must be doing it right taking care of herself. She is even non-reactive to Herpes Simplex Virus (HSV) 1 which 80% of americans are reactive to and HSV-2 wich 25% of americans are reactive to.
13 - We have great communication and talk opensly about risks, how to protect each other, how to be on lookout for symptoms. For example, we have a deal, that if for whatever reason we are a bit unsure (e.g. feel under the weather, have a fever, have had a condom failure with someone else, etc), we just say "lets be extra careful this time" and we go into latex full body suit and other precautions (no oral sex, etc).
14 - We are both shaved/trimmed on pubic hair.
15 - She never has sex when she has her period, and does not usually work if she feels ill (cold, fever, etc).
16 - She has several clients that take her out for dinner/dancing no sex or only occasional sex.

The benefits for both of us are - in the last few days of my stay with her, when we are closest we have more of a natural, intimate GFE, and we do share a few risks (me more than her) and a bond. Things are great, but we don't lose our heads.

Now I look at my risks under these circumstances. That is what are my extra risks to go BB in the last few days of my stay, vs if I had used condoms those last few times.

1 - Hepatitis risk - no difference, as hepatitis is transmited via kissing and other non intercourse contact.

2 - Herpes (HSV), Humam Papiloma Virus (HPV) - a very slight increase in risk as condoms do offer some (but not very effective) protection, but kissing, oral sex, touching, skin to skin contact are also transmission modes. Also HPV is a risk for her only and only if it goes untreated.



3 - Bacterial STDs (gonorhea, Syphylis, etc ) - a moderate increase in risk, because the time to symptoms to some of those may extend longer than the 5-7 days between the time she last has sex with someone else and we go BB. However, I do not worry much about those. If it were to happen it woud be easily recognized/treated by antibiotics.

4 - HIV - OK So this is the big one. The risk here is that there is roughly a maximum (worst case) 6 month window (3 month between tests + 3 months to seroconvert) a possible HIV infection on her part. So I have to look at 3 factors:
4a - What of the chances that one or more of the 60 or so white western european she has had sex in the 6 months window has and active HIV infection (i.e. detectable viral load in serum)? I.e. what is the untreated (not AIDS cocktail) HIV prevalence rate in white, mid-upper class western european man in the 35-60 year old polulation. Trust me that is a tiny, tiny, tiny number. It basically accounts for much less than 1 person. Lets call it 0.01% just for fun - it is actually much less, look it up)
2 - What are the chances that in her one (or few) encounters with that group, being in control and using condoms regularly, she would be infected with HIV? Lets call that 0.01% again just for fun (it is much, much lower, look it up).
3 - What is the chance that one of our 5 or so BB encounters (remember the conditions), I would contract HIV from her. Again lets call it 0.01% for fun (it is actually much much lower, look it up).

So my risk exposure for HIV is 0.01% x 0.01%*0.01% - 0.000001% or 1 in 100 million. If we used actual numbers it would be much, much, much lower than that. Those odds are much, much more favourable than dying in a car wreck going from Rio Airport to my hotel on any single trip (which for the fun of it, I calculated as 1 in 20 million, one in 10M for the round trip).

Her risks are obviously much lower than mine (no need to explain it all)

If I did catch HIV (I'm in my mid 40's and in top shape, and for all I know I have a great immune system - e.g. when everyone in my house has the flu, I usually don't get it and have access to great health treatment), what would be my current out look? I most likely would go 10 years+ without developing any AIDS symptoms (with current drugs), most likely 15+ years, just taking into account better drugs or better treatment protocols. With current medications/protocols I'd virtually eliminate the virus from my serum and in combination with condoms would be very unlike to infect someone else. I.E. my outlook is to reach 60 years old with out any adverse effect on my lifestyle other than the AIDS medication regimen (currently about 3-5 pills/day - but I'm no expert on that - someone can comment on the impact on your lifestyle from that - office visits, blood tests, etc).

My current life expectancy is 70 years old.

Soooooo... is it worth it to be incredibly close and natural with a person I like for a few days in excahnge for a 1 in 100 million or less of catching something that may affect the outlook for the last 10 years of my life.

It is still a judgement question and different people will come up with different answers.

I chose to take that calculated risk when the moment/situation is really special.

So whatever you do/think/decide, in STD/HIV, please, do yourself a favor... Don't get paranoid, don't feel guilty, don't go blind.... look at the risk and make a concientious decision.

P.S. For all of you that lost sleep when a condom broke with a GP, do the math - it will make you sleep very, very well.

Now, I like to be balanced. So here is the counter argument to my thinking....

Reportedly, some porn star (forgot his name) came to Brazil to do a shoot and got HIV from a Brazilian GP that works at Help (Bianca something), even with the frequent (every 30 days) testing etc. So yes, it can happen (if in fact that is how he got it) and in this case it ruined the guys livelihood.

I hope this way of thinking helps some of you.

I dont see why reason #9 would make her any better than or safer than anybody else over there.Last I checked AIDS doesnt discriminate,its all about whether you engage in AIDS/HIV risky activity or not...

EE2002,

Unfortunately that is not true. Demographics and geography have a lot to do with HIV risk. If you were to have sex with a random black girl in South Affrica and a random white girl in Brazil, your chances of being exposed to HIV would be much higher in South Affrica.

Also, the girls that are trully good looking (I'm talking about mass-appeal good looking), don't have alcohol/drug problems, have their head screwed in right, have a game plan, rules, and are not desperate for money (hooking for a few years to same money, buy and appartment/car, buy a business or a few appartments to rent), are more in control. It is much easier for them to be picky and selective. This girls are not stupid. Just like us they weigh their risks in every hook. Is this guy going to stiff me/give me the run around? Is this guy less than clean, bad breath, etc? Does this guy take care of himself? Is he married - big ring on left hand makes them fell safer for some reason? And on and on. So that has some "I put myself first" value. I can walk away from somoone that offers me US$200 to go BB.

I know some people find the black/darker girls at Help exotic and attractive. But trust me, these girls have so much less opportunity in Brazil, they are really strugling much more and have to settle for a lot of abuse.

Also if she chooses to look for clients from countries which have a zero-to very low HIV prevalence rate and free health care/AIDS drugs, she is exposing herself less (on average) than other girls.

Hope it makes sense. It is not a racist comment - it is just a dispationate observation.

I hope I didn't offend anyone by that.

It's a simple risk assesment. Is the added pleasure from going bare back worth the risk?

Some people have something worth having/keeping and others do not and some just don't care anymore.

I think I know what catagory I fall into. What catagory are you in?